TUXs Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I kinda wish they would have done something more in thie vien: That's a brilliant idea Urael!!! Whoever suggested that must be super smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) You didn't point out too much, honestly. Sure, Ill play a few sets. You serve. Heaven forbid a brand spanking new game has technical issues. I think Bioware's devotion to their customer base has gone above and beyond to the point where they're changing everything they wanted this game to be, and soon it probably won't even be technically their's anymore. But people still complain, and Bioware still folds to the pressure. How long do you expect them to "pay for their mistakes"? You sure do like dramatic prose, dont you. I don't expect them to pay for anything...I expect them to do what is best for the title, to keep it solvent and profitable, healthy and upward mobile. I expect them to do well, and hope this move is the beginning of just that. Read the posts in this thread. The people who are complaining about these "restrictions", when in fact they're lucky to be getting anything at all without having to pay anything above the game cost for it. They got what they wanted but they want everything the full game has to offer without paying anything. Looks like you enjoy silly exaggeration as well. I don't think luck has anything to do with it. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that somehow, some way we owe Bioware something. SWTOR is a commercial product seeking profit. As a vehicle of profit, it deserves nothing and is lucky if it receives anything. That's how capitalism works. This game is not a religion, a family member or a political party. That's directed at all the people who want to turn this game into every other game they've played, the ones who demanded Free to Play, mainly. I felt they needed to know that this isn't the game they're looking for. It doesn't matter who it is aimed at. People that are happy with the status quo do not generate enough revenue to satisfy Bioware or EA's financial goals with the game. It is a very simple, succinct fact that seems to escape most of those that rage "if you don't like it, leave". The following is probably more likely....Bioware does not want them to leave. Bioware wants the feedback as evidenced by this very forum we are chatting in. Bioware desires to make profits. You do not make decisions on who stays, who goes, who's suggestions or complaints are reputable or worthy....Bioware decides that. You have to come to peace with the idea that things change, sometimes in ways you do not like, and this game may end up becoming something different than what you desire. The original plan did not work, there are not enough of the status quo folks to meet the game's goals....so we have change. And that's that. Edited October 19, 2012 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 That's a brilliant idea Urael!!! Whoever suggested that must be super smart And . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crozejc Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 It would seem F2P is not really an option, unless all you intented to do is RP, and watch the class stories, I was hoping for more, as this model of game play is dying, don't get me wrong I love this game, but more and more people want to move on to the next big thing, F2P here could do that to swtor, but with these restrictions, it more like a unlimited trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrorfistjab Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Couple of misconceptions going on in this thread that I think need clearing up. A. Just because a player is against the currently proposed FTP option, does not mean that they are mad because they secretly wanted to switch to free to play and not lose any of their current game options, or think FTPlayers should have no restrictions on them. B. Players voicing their concerns over the details of this FTP option don't necessarily believe that EA will up and change it all before at least trying out their currently planned model, but hope that their feedback will be heard(read) and that it could be potentially taken into consideration for the future. Besides the same people who are saying to stop "QQing" or that FTP option isn't up for debate, or in all likelihood the same silly folks that if we didn't voice our concerns now, would say in the future, "You guys should have said you didn't like it before they put it in!" Final point, I pay my money to play this game and be part of the community and have access to the services found within, and nobody is going to say I am less intelligent than them or to be quiet just because I disagree with them about a game decision that is being made. Edited October 19, 2012 by terrorfistjab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorkTrooper Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 If people do not like the F2P restrictions, they have two choices. We know both of them already. Would I rather the game keep going a long time, regardless of the type of F2P BW chooses? Sure, even if that choice causes me to quit playing, it's great if other people have MMO options. However, I do respect the vision of the game artists and choices of the development team, even if they are not, in the end, financially "successful". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I WISH they'd have limited the story to JUST act 1, allowed unlimited WZ's (with reduced returns), unlimited FP's and Ops (with reduced returns) and kept the story locked for acts 2, 3 and beyond. The stuff they're asking people to pay for, just isn't that good. I'm SOOO glad they didn't do this. Then people who only want to F2P wouldn't be helping queue times at all for level 50 playing subs. 3 a week isn't much, but 3 a week times thousands (or hundreds of thousands) is a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 If people do not like the F2P restrictions, they have two choices. We know both of them already. Would I rather the game keep going a long time, regardless of the type of F2P BW chooses? Sure, even if that choice causes me to quit playing, it's great if other people have MMO options. However, I do respect the vision of the game artists and choices of the development team, even if they are not, in the end, financially "successful". Actually they have three. They can continue to give feedback and hope to have some impact on the F2P, like they are doing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I'm SOOO glad they didn't do this. Then people who only want to F2P wouldn't be helping queue times at all for level 50 playing subs. 3 a week isn't much, but 3 a week times thousands (or hundreds of thousands) is a lot. I fear that my success in pugs may go down a bit once the F2P crowd starts hitting level 50. Most of my pugs have been with players that are reasonably skilled, with reasonable gear, and a reasonable ability to listen to advice about a boss encounter they don't know yet. Even the poorly geared pugs have often been alts of long-time players whose skill makes up for the lack of gear. We'll see what happens, but I'm not hopeful ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 You inferred this. Why do so many people have a problem with inferrence? I offered that as an example of "someone" attempting to do something to "break the mold" that MMORPGs are in that was highlighted by Monoth. Soooooooooooo many people on these forums INFER even when nothing is IMPLIED. SWTOR did this to a degree. The folks at Bioware changed the way we interact with the MMORPG world. Story based voice acting is engaging and fun and certainly exposes a new facet of the MMO system. It doesn't get repeated enough, they have made it so other MMO's will have to be voice acted to really have people connect to the game (at least initially). Now this is where it gets tricky, innovation is well and good but it means nothing if you can't get people to play it. Guarantee if you ask a gamer what type of MMO they want they will SAY 'not another WoW clone' buy they won't PLAY it- the numbers back that up. There isn't a single sandbox game out there that has 500k paying subscriptions. It's one of those nostalgia things that everyone wants in theory but not in practice. What made WoW so great? Combining the best features of other games and offering it to you in an easy to access way. There's nothing particularly ground breaking in that but it's genius for breaking down initial learning curves and access barriers. If you want to see the pitfalls of a non 'traditional WoW' design look at Tabula Rasa. It was a different take on the MMO world with a decent budget and a beloved developer at the head. It couldn't be more different than WoW and it totally bombed out within 2 years. Being different and innovative doesn't mean profitable or good. There's a major lesson there. Now as a gamer with big ideas you might say 'oh well, I KNOW I can develop a game that would be a hit in a sandbox environment why the heck can't anyone else do it? ' The bottom line is that you aren't putting up millions upon millions of your own dollars to do it. Given what is successful on today's market and how poorly overall every MMO (not just SWTOR- every one in the last 24 months) has done at customer retention there isn't a lot of venture capital money to go around. In the gaming world people talk about EA's lack of innovation then point to the sports franchises. Once you have a successful product that sells you don't change that model. In order to innovate you need to negate risk as much as possible make small games with low budgets to 'see what sticks to the wall' so to speak then those become your hits and that model is copied again and again. Sequels have become the most important way to drive the bottom line. I won't say innovation in MMO's is dead but it's been shown to be not profitable and therefore a major risk. Blizzard is able to finance 'Titan' because they print the GDP of Zimbabwe on a monthly basis and they still have WoW to fall back on if it bombs. Interestingly enough when a game loses it's subs after launch they many of them tend to go back to WoW. Blizzard wins either way in this model as they don't lose a subscriber and anything players gained helps offset the higher cost of 2 MMOs and crush the market place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Actually they have three. They can continue to give feedback and hope to have some impact on the F2P, like they are doing here. Yes, you can continue to give suggestions to Bioware as an unpaid consultant on a forum that the people that make these decision will never read. You can suggest how to fix the model that has never been tested in this game and therefore hasn't been proven to be incorrect. In fact many of the things such as the 3 warzones per week restriction are mentioned in the marketing video for the F2P launch. That's set in stone at least initially based on that. You would be spinning your wheels and getting all worked up posting your suggestions but you can post whatever you like. Believing however that you can make any difference at all to their plans is complete and total lunacy. If you accept this when you post suggestions then I can understand that at least. Everyone wants to be heard even when we know it's futile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roalmo Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 ..... Believing however that you can make any difference at all to their plans is complete and total lunacy.... But... but.. I heard somewhere that 1 man CAN make a difference??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 But... but.. I heard somewhere that 1 man CAN make a difference??????? Only in Tiddilywinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Only in Tiddilywinks. Wow I haven't heard that in a looooooooooong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faladis Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 To believe you cannot make a change yet to try is not lunacy, it is the very foundation of hope and the human spirit. Hell, it's the very foundation of the Republic in game; fighting against all odds and overcoming insurmountable obstacles by sheer force of will. If you say that you cannot and don't even try, then you have already let yourself be defeated by your worst enemy, your own self doubt. It is more an argument of logic, I would rather go out swinging than sit and wait for the end. In this case, I'd rather voice my opinion, even if it is never heard, than just sit by and say "If only I could have..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) To believe you cannot make a change yet to try is not lunacy, it is the very foundation of hope and the human spirit. Hell, it's the very foundation of the Republic in game; fighting against all odds and overcoming insurmountable obstacles by sheer force of will. That's not what I said. To better clarify that I said: Believing that you will make an impact (in this scenario) is lunacy. Doing it anyway is human nature. We all need to be more important than we are to justify ourselves. And I can understand that. There's more I'd expand upon about the nature of our self worth but it's not on topic for this forum. Edited October 20, 2012 by Tim-ONeil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigglesXRevenge Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I will be free to play, if the game is worth it. lololol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faladis Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 To better clarify that I said: Believing that you will make an impact (in this scenario) is lunacy. I know what you meant and I don't disagree entirely with you, but in this case, while the odds are stacked against you to ever make a change, I do disagree that it is lunacy. I'd rather place a one-in-a-million shot on a chance to change the future than no shot at all, and I believe that to be a sane judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySix Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Wife and I will be dropping our subscriptions and going the FTP route. As it is, we rarely find time to play, and when we do it's only for about three hours a week at most. Neither of us do Warzones or flashpoints, so can't see a valid reason to continue paying for a subscription. We just like to play the story lines cooperatively, and FTP will allow us to do that when we want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 The same sentiment was put forth about the name "wizard". It is one of the few times when they made the wise choice of taking good advice from the community. In beta, I believe the beta community gave quite a bit of good advice. Some of those folks are in this thread today...giving the same moderate constructive advice. I think most reasonable folks do not find a problem with the system as is it is set up, would prefer to see a few small changes to entice former players back. At any rate, futile or not, I made my suggestions with respect to the F2P system and stand by those suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 The same sentiment was put forth about the name "wizard". It is one of the few times when they made the wise choice of taking good advice from the community. You realize of course how completely different the things you are suggesting are I assume. You are trying to get them to change an untested, and therefore NEVER proven to be incorrect, business model. And you are showing that they changed an insignificant name for one of the AC's in the game as proof they will listen to you. Naming the AC after polling the community is brilliant PR and I totally agree with that decision. Allowing that same community to alter your researched and chosen new business practices based on nothing other than a few players suggestions is something totally totally different. As I've mentioned you have the right to post anything that isn't against the forum rules here and I completely respect that but you have to realize it is silly to expect them to listen to you. I think the second part is the major part there. Many people 'hope' they will listen but some of our members that are doing themselves a disservice and continuing this admittedly pointless discussion have the expectation that 'either Bioware listens to me or they fail' which is delusional on many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somtaaw Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 some of the problems with the proposed f2p model is that anyone with even half a brain knows that what any f2p mmorpg game (korean or otherwise) is far superior to the castrated, version SWTOR will become. Inability to even do daily pvp/fp missions for more than 1-2 days ZERO contribution to p2p folks @ 50, and minimal contribution to levelling p2p (Flashpoint/Warzone queues arent gonna change THAT much) And yeah, f2p shouldn't be getting everything we (subbers) currently have, but they sure as hell aren't gonna want to stick around with the castration, since any other mmorpg offers them far more base features, AND offers pay-to-win content (such as the exp boosts, faster travel, outright purchasing of end-game equipment, etc) Loathe as I am to say it.... Runescape has been doing the free-to-play, pay-to-win for years. Given that I'm really an altoholic, and that my current PC drops a deuce everytime I load 1 client of SWTOR, but easily permits upto TWENTY EVE: Online accounts.... let's see, lag during loading for SWTOR Flashpoints and get kicked out and be paying real cash (subscription or flashpoint permit pass), or go multi-box 20 eve online accounts, and occasionally rolling some new alt to mess around and solo missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 anyone with even half a brain so NOT 99 percent of gamers then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Well, I still think Preferred accounts need a bit more distinction from F2P. At least if they are to be enticing to former players. I really believe allowing two more unlocked slots, for a total of three characters plus a timer on warzones and flashpoints (1 a day each) would make the system perfect IMO. Expensive permanent unlocks are also important IMO. On average a person should be able to pay around 15 times a subscription rate to unlock almost ever single item in the game permanently (225.00 in equivalent CC}...call it a lifetime sub. They still would not get the cartel coin bonus each month, and perhaps a few other minor bonuses compared to sub members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heezdedjim Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 The best thing about this is that since only paid players can post on the forums, this is the last thread we'll ever need to see on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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