Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Pistols]

[Exly]

And dear lord, you would bring up a RL topic because of how silent I force you to be in the face of logic. There's a reason why I dominate in WZs, and why I do quite well for myself as a collegiate NCAA distance runner on scholarship, and why I understand competition better than your little "I played flag football in high school once" crap.

 

Just curious. As collegiate NCAA distance runner on scholarship, do you prefer to compete against other dedicated runners, or do you go looking for casual runners to compete against?

 

I am guessing that being dedicated to the sport yourself, that you look to compete against others in your league, and you let those who run for fun or for fitness reasons to compete against themselves if they are inclined to do so. If so, then I find it hard to understand why you oppose separate q's in this game. On the other hand, if you go looking for casual runners to compete against, and take great pride in beating them, then I find it hard to understand what you are trying to prove to yourself or to others by doing so.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Exly

[Sangrar]

Just curious. As collegiate NCAA distance runner on scholarship, do you prefer to compete against other dedicated runners, or do you go looking for casual runners to compete against?

 

I am guessing that being dedicated to the sport yourself, that you look to compete against others in your league, and you let those who run for fun or for fitness reasons to compete against themselves if they are inclined to do so. If so, then I find it hard to understand why you oppose separate q's in this game. On the other hand, if you go looking for casual runners to compete against, and take great pride in beating them, then I find it hard to understand what you are trying to prove to yourself or to others by doing so.

 

look, I am not saying its right or wrong to premade, I am saying your solutions are flawed. Without matchmaking which won't happen without cross server, a group ony que will NEVER be viable. No one will want to play a group only que without a special incentive and will probably all solo que at the same time. Also, you assume all groups are NCAA distance runners, well what about a group of 4 guys just hanging out, are they on the same level as the NCAA runners? No, not all groups are made the same, not everyone groups to "pugstomp", I group seldom but when I do its to screw around with my friends. Also, as the devs have admitted, the population will not really handle splitting. In conclusion, group only que would just not be viable enough and do more harm than good, there would be no real incentive, it would not match groups equally which would mean in essence you would be creating the same situation you see now only this time it really would punish people who want to casually group with their buddies, and due to splitting it would probably not be fast, and also would be fairly easy to bypass. Now please counter my arguments civilly, I have too much bad experiences in this thread, do not attack me and say I am a "pugstomping baddie" or whatever, just please counter some of the points I have brought up.

[Exly]

look, I am not saying its right or wrong to premade, I am saying your solutions are flawed. Without matchmaking which won't happen without cross server, a group ony que will NEVER be viable. No one will want to play a group only que without a special incentive and will probably all solo que at the same time. Also, you assume all groups are NCAA distance runners, well what about a group of 4 guys just hanging out, are they on the same level as the NCAA runners? No, not all groups are made the same, not everyone groups to "pugstomp", I group seldom but when I do its to screw around with my friends. Also, as the devs have admitted, the population will not really handle splitting. In conclusion, group only que would just not be viable enough and do more harm than good, there would be no real incentive, it would not match groups equally which would mean in essence you would be creating the same situation you see now only this time it really would punish people who want to casually group with their buddies, and due to splitting it would probably not be fast, and also would be fairly easy to bypass. Now please counter my arguments civilly, I have too much bad experiences in this thread, do not attack me and say I am a "pugstomping baddie" or whatever, just please counter some of the points I have brought up.

 

You suggest that splitting q's would do more harm than good, and I disagree with you on that point.

 

Using myself as an example, I am a solo q'er that took several months away from PvP because I was tired of all of the pugstomping that was going on. I firmly believe that I am not unique, and that many more people are driven away from PvP because of the bad experiences that they have had at the hands of premade groups than are drawn to it because they can form their own premade groups. Therefor, I believe it is in the best interest of the to provide a separate solo only q so that fewer players are driven away from PvP, and more people might actually be drawn to it.

 

Edit: a proper matchmaking system would be nice too, but because of hybrid builds and BW's internal limitations I think it is unlikely that we will ever get one that works.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Exly

[Seireeni]

Using myself as an example, I am a solo q'er that took several months away from PvP because I was tired of all of the pugstomping that was going on. I firmly believe that I am not unique, and that many more people are driven away from PvP because of the bad experiences that they have had at the hands of premade groups than are drawn to it because they can form their own premade groups. Therefor, I believe it is in the best interest of the to provide a separate solo only q so that fewer players are driven away from PvP, and more people might actually be drawn to it.

 

Using myself as an example, I'm a casual player of this game and my skill level is medicore at best. I have a couple of friends who usually take long breaks from SWTOR and then play for a month and then take a break again. They are even worse than me in pvp. We occasionally group up to pvp just like we occasionally group up to level, do fps and do ops.

 

Splitting queues to group queue and solo queue, while still not providing any matchmaking and assuming that there are more skilled groups than medicore/bad groups, would lead us to having longer queue times (especially since we are a group of 3 and do a lot of lowbie pvp) and getting stomped all the time, instead of getting stomped sometimes (like the case is now). Just so people like you, who only solo queue, would get still get stomped, just not as often. 4 skilled players couldn't group up anymore, but the lack of matchmaking could, and probably also would, create highly uneven matches.

 

But hey, after all, you don't care about groups of medicores/bads getting stomped by groups of skilled players. You care about you and people like you getting stomped. And if you can get stomped less, while some other people get stomped more AND a longer queue time as a bonus, that's great, right?

Edited March 30, 2014 by Seireeni

[Raansu]

You suggest that splitting q's would do more harm than good, and I disagree with you on that point.

 

Using myself as an example, I am a solo q'er that took several months away from PvP because I was tired of all of the pugstomping that was going on. I firmly believe that I am not unique, and that many more people are driven away from PvP because of the bad experiences that they have had at the hands of premade groups than are drawn to it because they can form their own premade groups. Therefor, I believe it is in the best interest of the to provide a separate solo only q so that fewer players are driven away from PvP, and more people might actually be drawn to it.

 

Edit: a proper matchmaking system would be nice too, but because of hybrid builds and BW's internal limitations I think it is unlikely that we will ever get one that works.

 

You will still lose even if they did remove "premades."

[Exly]

You will still lose even if they did remove "premades."

 

Yup, I will lose some of the time, and I will win some of the time. I am ok with that.

[DarthRaika]

Lol

 

You claim I can't speak on what may be minor occurrences, yet suddenly, every premade is now "top tier"? Since when did grouping suddenly make you elite? When in reality, the issue is how people approach the game, where some play by the rules and a majority choose to try and change the game to their expectations, which is an impossible occurrence. The problem isn't the rule abiders, it's all of you who claim the game should only be DPS specs fighting at objectives.

 

You still have yet to make a legitamite counter as to where premades are superior to pugs in game mechanics, while I have shown that in all reality, a premade is no where close to invincible by that theoretical scenario.

 

And dear lord, you would bring up a RL topic because of how silent I force you to be in the face of logic. There's a reason why I dominate in WZs, and why I do quite well for myself as a collegiate NCAA distance runner on scholarship, and why I understand competition better than your little "I played flag football in high school once" crap.

 

If you want to take this to a RL debate, then fine by me. But that's as far as you'll get into my personal life; go outside and smell the roses if you think your plan works so well. There's a reason why a majority of the player base is trash, because your ignorant understanding of competition shows you truly deserve every beat down you get in a WZ.

 

Step up your game. Or go back to your RL, PvP isn't an economic or social construct of buisness/competition. It is pure competition.

 

I don't get a lot of beat downs in game. I usually do pretty well and some sure losses as well as some sure wins I leave the wz and go to the next one so it isn't a big deal to me.

 

This is mainly a RL thing for me because as I get older I see that I just can't stand the people playing mmo's lately. I am a very competitive person and I like even matches(btw I was offered a x-country scholarship to a very nice college but I turned it down since I had academic scholarships and 100 miles a week would make engineering very difficult).

 

I started out premading in swtor and was hoping for matchmaking to come shortly. Most matches were sure wins and I got very bored and stopped playing for awhile. Now I mostly pug and I enjoy the game but there are just so few truly close matches. They happen much less often than in other mmos I used to play. I would usually expect a close match in 1 out of 4 at least in games with matchmaking but in swtor it is more like 1 out of 10. This isn't about winning or losing it is about uneven matches especially since this game has very balanced classes and could be great with better matchmaking.

 

It is just hard to see so many people defending this lack of competitiveness. If this is the future of mmo mentalities then I may have to finally leave the genre and I have been in mmos a very long time. That is why I bring up real life. This isn't a game issue it is a mentality of gamers issue. If you think this way in game then you likely think this way in real life and that is sad. I still think there are a lot of competitive happy people playing mmos but threads like this make me start to doubt that.

 

BTW, the advantages all boil down to choice. As in the previous example the football team with choice of who to pick from had major advantages. In this game you can choose half of the teams composition, gear, skill, communication method, and experience with each other. Sure you can choose poorly but that would be your fault. There are many bad premades and I even saw one recently where the best geared player had 1800 expertise . A premade does have the ability to choose though and this is where the advantage comes in.

 

Also, the really bad premades are even more annoying than the really good ones since they just make the match lopsided the other way.

[Exly]

Using myself as an example, I'm a casual player of this game and my skill level is medicore at best. I have a couple of friends who usually take long breaks from SWTOR and then play for a month and then take a break again. They are even worse than me in pvp. We occasionally group up to pvp just like we occasionally group up to level, do fps and do ops.

 

Splitting queues to group queue and solo queue, while still not providing any matchmaking and assuming that there are more skilled groups than medicore/bad groups, would lead us to having longer queue times (especially since we are a group of 3 and do a lot of lowbie pvp) and getting stomped all the time, instead of getting stomped sometimes (like the case is now). Just so people like you, who only solo queue, would get still get stomped, just not as often. 4 skilled players couldn't group up anymore, but the lack of matchmaking could, and probably also would, create highly uneven matches.

 

But hey, after all, you don't care about groups of medicores/bads getting stomped by groups of skilled players. You care about you and people like you getting stomped. And if you can get stomped less, while some other people get stomped more AND a longer queue time as a bonus, that's great, right?

 

If the second q was a mixed q, and fewer players were driven from PvP and more were drawn to it, then you would probably see little difference.

 

I am not looking at making things worse for you or anyone else, I am just looking for a way to have a more level playing field for me and for people like me.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Exly

[Seireeni]

If the second q was a mixed q, and fewer players were driven from PvP and more were drawn to it, then you would probably see little difference.

 

I am not looking at making things worse for you or anyone else, I am just looking for a way to have a more level playing field when for me and for people like me.

 

But don't you think that would be better achieved with some sort of matchmaking, instead of separate queues? It has been brought up often that premades don't usually have an advantage over pugs other than being able to make sure half of your team knows what they're doing, while the other team might only have 0-2 players of the same skill level. If there was some sort of hidden matchmaking, it would be at least more likely to have 4 players of the same skill level to fight against that premade.

 

Not to mention that this kind of matchmaking would actually help solving the problem, instead of just making sure that some amount of the players won't suffer from it anymore.

[Exly]

But don't you think that would be better achieved with some sort of matchmaking, instead of separate queues? It has been brought up often that premades don't usually have an advantage over pugs other than being able to make sure half of your team knows what they're doing, while the other team might only have 0-2 players of the same skill level. If there was some sort of hidden matchmaking, it would be at least more likely to have 4 players of the same skill level to fight against that premade.

 

Not to mention that this kind of matchmaking would actually help solving the problem, instead of just making sure that some amount of the players won't suffer from it anymore.

 

I think that hybrid builds and technical limitations already displayed by BW make it unlikely that we will ever have a matchmaking system that will be robust enough to make a difference. I also think that VOIP or the lack thereof makes more of a difference than most of those who group q are willing to admit, and that in and of itself is enough of a reason to warrant a separate solo q.

[Seireeni]

I think that hybrid builds and technical limitations already displayed by BW make it unlikely that we will ever have a matchmaking system that will be robust enough to make a difference. I also think that VOIP or the lack thereof makes more of a difference than most of those who group q are willing to admit, and that in and of itself is enough of a reason to warrant a separate solo q.

 

I think we have to agree to disagree about that VOIP-thing. I've seen many people to say that they don't use voip or that they only use it to talk about things that have nothing to do with the warzone in hand.

What comes to the hybrid builds, I'm not talking about 2 healers/2 tanks/4 dps -matchmaking, but some sort of hidden rating every character would have. So if 4 players who have high hidden rating queue together, the system would match 4 people with high hidden rating against them whenever possible.

The problem with 2 different queues is that since we aren't going to get cross-server queue, not all servers could support both queues, which would make less people queue for pvp (since no one likes long queue times).

[ZooMzy]

I don't get a lot of beat downs in game. I usually do pretty well and some sure losses as well as some sure wins I leave the wz and go to the next one so it isn't a big deal to me.

 

This is mainly a RL thing for me because as I get older I see that I just can't stand the people playing mmo's lately. I am a very competitive person and I like even matches(btw I was offered a x-country scholarship to a very nice college but I turned it down since I had academic scholarships and 100 miles a week would make engineering very difficult).

 

I started out premading in swtor and was hoping for matchmaking to come shortly. Most matches were sure wins and I got very bored and stopped playing for awhile. Now I mostly pug and I enjoy the game but there are just so few truly close matches. They happen much less often than in other mmos I used to play. I would usually expect a close match in 1 out of 4 at least in games with matchmaking but in swtor it is more like 1 out of 10. This isn't about winning or losing it is about uneven matches especially since this game has very balanced classes and could be great with better matchmaking.

 

It is just hard to see so many people defending this lack of competitiveness. If this is the future of mmo mentalities then I may have to finally leave the genre and I have been in mmos a very long time. That is why I bring up real life. This isn't a game issue it is a mentality of gamers issue. If you think this way in game then you likely think this way in real life and that is sad. I still think there are a lot of competitive happy people playing mmos but threads like this make me start to doubt that.

 

BTW, the advantages all boil down to choice. As in the previous example the football team with choice of who to pick from had major advantages. In this game you can choose half of the teams composition, gear, skill, communication method, and experience with each other. Sure you can choose poorly but that would be your fault. There are many bad premades and I even saw one recently where the best geared player had 1800 expertise . A premade does have the ability to choose though and this is where the advantage comes in.

 

Also, the really bad premades are even more annoying than the really good ones since they just make the match lopsided the other way.

 

Going to take one point from this post to pull, since the rest of it is off topic:

 

Who said I was defending the lack of competitiveness?

 

Never once did I say that premades dominating in WZs is a good thing, which if you had read, I said from the start about "playing god in the reg queue" is not a good thing at all.

 

The problem, again, is similar to looking at a situation where 1 person can solo 4 at once. In this game, many people would call that a feat, an impossibility at that against really competent players. However, when it happens, what should the response be?

 

To nerf the one because they were too uber for the 4? No, not even remotely close. If you lose to someone 1v4 and you are the 4, you really need to sit down and rethink how you play this game. That's just pathetic, no amount of excuse can justify that fault in the slightest.

 

But like you people seem to be content with doing, you blame the premades just like as if you blamed the "one" in the 1v4 scenario. If a premade can go into a WZ and dominate the queue, you should really step up your game.

 

Because, again, you still have yet to give any legitimate counter to how premades are favored over pugs in game mechanics. Simply because they are not.

Edited March 30, 2014 by ZooMzy

[MotorCityMan]

You won't get a counter argument because there is none. There is no justification that works because it is a problem of the population attitude, not the game design.

 

Imagine, if you will, that a group of friends have played basketball together for a long time. They know how to work off each other, and play off each others' strengths and weaknesses.

 

Doesn't mean jack when that group gets stomped by a pug team of LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard, and Chris Paul. Every single bonus gained from having that connection can be countered, proven by that point.

 

Premades aren't the problem. Players are, l2p plz.

 

Ya but "Imagine if you will" that after a pug team of LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul and Dwight Howard stomped the premade, they were transported to an alternate universe, populated by human mutants. And there was this human mutant premade team that literally ran circles around Lebron, and was able to jump twice as high and make half court shots with one hand without looking. And they destroyed the Lebron's pug team. This shows that your points can be countered by proven points with a connection to a bonus and that premades are indeed the problem.

Edited March 30, 2014 by MotorCityMan

[Zoom_VI]

Ya but "Imagine if you will" that after a pug team of LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul and Dwight Howard stomped the premade, they were transported to an alternate universe, populated by human mutants. And there was this human mutant premade team that literally ran circles around Lebron, and was able to jump twice as high and make half court shots with one hand without looking. And they destroyed the Lebron's pug team. This shows that your points can be countered by proven points with a connection to a bonus and that premades are indeed the problem.

 

wat did I just read?

[J_McSkill]

This is a MMO, it's meant to be played with others... Get some friends and make your own "premade" group. It's that simple.

 

As for splitting queues, that's an awful idea... This game just doesn't have the population to support it.

 

Also if it's a full group of 4 in an 8v8, you actually have a 33.3% (repeating of course) chance to be on the premade team.

[DarthRaika]

Going to take one point from this post to pull, since the rest of it is off topic:

 

Who said I was defending the lack of competitiveness?

 

Never once did I say that premades dominating in WZs is a good thing, which if you had read, I said from the start about "playing god in the reg queue" is not a good thing at all.

 

The problem, again, is similar to looking at a situation where 1 person can solo 4 at once. In this game, many people would call that a feat, an impossibility at that against really competent players. However, when it happens, what should the response be?

 

To nerf the one because they were too uber for the 4? No, not even remotely close. If you lose to someone 1v4 and you are the 4, you really need to sit down and rethink how you play this game. That's just pathetic, no amount of excuse can justify that fault in the slightest.

 

But like you people seem to be content with doing, you blame the premades just like as if you blamed the "one" in the 1v4 scenario. If a premade can go into a WZ and dominate the queue, you should really step up your game.

 

Because, again, you still have yet to give any legitimate counter to how premades are favored over pugs in game mechanics. Simply because they are not.

 

Premades are given the ability to choose 50% of their team. They can choose 50% of the composition, gear, skill, communication method, and experience with each other. That is a huge game mechanic which favors them. If you can't understand this then you are beyond hope.

 

That is why I said that you do not like competition. Someone defending the current system is either too dumb to understand the above advantages or they don't want competition. Maybe I overestimated you.

[ZooMzy]

Ya but "Imagine if you will" that after a pug team of LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul and Dwight Howard stomped the premade, they were transported to an alternate universe, populated by human mutants. And there was this human mutant premade team that literally ran circles around Lebron, and was able to jump twice as high and make half court shots with one hand without looking. And they destroyed the Lebron's pug team. This shows that your points can be countered by proven points with a connection to a bonus and that premades are indeed the problem.

 

Funny, isn't it? How nothing is unbeatable, and how you can theoretically create scenarios over and over and over again that can make sense.

 

You're right, that pug team of players could get beaten. Just like those premades, just like those groups you claim are the reason why the queue is terrible and imbalanced

 

Just like fighting. You throw a punch, the opponent throws a punch, you go back and forth and back and forth until a winner emerges.

 

Being competitive is a desire to see those tough intense fights happen, to experience those challenges. Being an egotistical win whore is second, where the type of player is dedicated more towards getting wins than actually having the best fight they can have. Third is the ignorant casual, the person who doesn't recognize fights drawn out longer than going down in the first punch is what makes the game fun and ends up quitting because they understand that type of game is not for them.

 

And finally, comes the 4th tier of player mentality, where I can whole heartedly say the majority of the population is: the egotistical casual. The person, who like in scenario three, doesn't recognize the fun in competition that PvP is supposed to represent or chooses not to partake in that sort of play. However, they take the very negative thing that splits the first and second tier, "egotistical", and get upset at losing enough to develop a competitive drive in seeing the game change to suit their own desires and beliefs, not giving a damn for anyone else.

 

The real reason PvP is a flop on this game is because people like you have looped themselves into a belief of righteousness because again, you are the majority.

 

So again, keep trying to fight even though you are losing stance. Because with that post right there, you basically shot your entire argument that "Premades are too powerful" completely into the dirt.

 

EDIT:

 

Premades are given the ability to choose 50% of their team. They can choose 50% of the composition, gear, skill, communication method, and experience with each other. That is a huge game mechanic which favors them. If you can't understand this then you are beyond hope.

 

That is why I said that you do not like competition. Someone defending the current system is either too dumb to understand the above advantages or they don't want competition. Maybe I overestimated you.

 

I see no advantage that pugs can't match in playing alts. I see no advantage in choosing your teammates, other than the major gap in skill that will occur because people support this failed notion of "play the game you want to play" over "play to compete, whatever it takes" in PvP .Game mechanically speaking, there is no advantage there that can't be countered.

 

If the standard of pug was encouraged to improve over attempting to remove the skilled players, and promoted the ideals of competition over the casual priorities, the game would improve. Instead, you attempt to restrict the superior because the majority is inferior.

 

Unlike you, I don't like to loop and lie to people about what needs to change. I don't defend a system because I want to see a permanent superiority, I defend it because the only way this game will improve is if people actually treated competition the way it is supposed to be and stop whining because they haven't found the answer yet.

Edited March 30, 2014 by ZooMzy

[Exly]

Being competitive is a desire to see those tough intense fights happen, to experience those challenges. Being an egotistical win whore is second, where the type of player is dedicated more towards getting wins than actually having the best fight they can have. Third is the ignorant casual, the person who doesn't recognize fights drawn out longer than going down in the first punch is what makes the game fun and ends up quitting because they understand that type of game is not for them.

 

Are people truly interested in being competitive though? If they are then why did ranked 8v8s fail, and why is there so much complaining about being able to get a group q to pop in 4v4 ranked arenas?

[Shmegeh]

Are people truly interested in being competitive though? If they are then why did ranked 8v8s fail, and why is there so much complaining about being able to get a group q to pop in 4v4 ranked arenas?

There were many reasons why ranked 8s failed, one of them being that it was a highly cliquey scene. you had to be noticed by other PvP guilds and be involved with their members in some way if you wanted to be a part of a team or wanted to start up one yourself. It was no easy thing to try and be a part of.

 

Other reasons included lack of x server and lack of dev support, but one of the reasons was because of how cliquey the community that participated in it was. Also many PvPers were already a part of a ranked guild or were an officer/leader of one.

[Exly]

This is a MMO, it's meant to be played with others... Get some friends and make your own "premade" group. It's that simple.

 

Maybe things are different on your server, but when I q as solo and subsequently join a warzone I find that I do actually end up playing with others. This is an MMO after all.

 

As for splitting queues, that's an awful idea... This game just doesn't have the population to support it.

 

How about we find out if what you say is true by actually trying it. Until then we won't really know if you are right.

 

Also if it's a full group of 4 in an 8v8, you actually have a 33.3% (repeating of course) chance to be on the premade team.

 

Your math only works if all 16 players are in the same faction and there are the only ones q'ing at the time. Add more players, increase the number of premades q'ing, and take into account faction balance and those numbers change. In some cases it could even be possible for you to have a 0% chance of being on a team with a premade. Furthermore, being on the same team as a premade may increase you chances of winning, but it does nothing to solve the problem.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Exly

[ZooMzy]

There were many reasons why ranked 8s failed, one of them being that it was a highly cliquey scene. you had to be noticed by other PvP guilds and be involved with their members in some way if you wanted to be a part of a team or wanted to start up one yourself. It was no easy thing to try and be a part of.

 

Other reasons included lack of x server and lack of dev support, but one of the reasons was because of how cliquey the community that participated in it was. Also many PvPers were already a part of a ranked guild or were an officer/leader of one.

 

This.

 

Which, tbh, I believe all of these stemmed from a lack of a competitive drive from the majority of the player base. Sure, developers could have made some better choices.

 

But overall, I feel the real problem that led to the failure is simple: the majority has never been competitive, only a select few. And PvP will never thrive unless the population supporting it is undeniably competitive.

[cycao]

Im going to sum up this thread.

 

As a PvPer

 

Not everyone notices these things. You can group and win OR you can queue solo and win. Being in a group does not equal a win nor does queuing solo equal a loss, bad players lose and good players.

As a dev

 

We cannot force players into a part of the game they don't like, If you feel they should, you have a system which offers a solo queue environment. Queue syncing happens, but not as often as you would think. The assumption that every premade queue syncs in the solo queue makes you a *********** retard.

[foxmob]

But overall, I feel the real problem that led to the failure is simple: the majority has never been competitive, only a select few. And PvP will never thrive unless the population supporting it is undeniably competitive.

that...or maybe they actually match similarly skilled players with and against each other. you'd have to be masochistic or "seriously competitive" to queue up against the same butt kicking 10x a night while getting incrementally better, if at all, so that some time in the next 5 months, you team might -- might -- be able to give that other team a fight. I mean...yeah. you could say it's lack of competitiveness. I'd say it's lack of matchmaking which causes the population to dwindle quickly.

 

(this is all a rated discussion and has nothing to do with reg/premades stuff. carry on.)

[MotorCityMan]

This is a MMO, it's meant to be played with others... Get some friends and make your own "premade" group. It's that simple.

 

As for splitting queues, that's an awful idea... This game just doesn't have the population to support it.

 

Also if it's a full group of 4 in an 8v8, you actually have a 33.3% (repeating of course) chance to be on the premade team.

 

 

People were crying that the game didn't have enough population to support split queues and then we got space and there was hardly a ripple in the queues. Saying that there isn't population to support it is a red herring. No one except those in possession of the empirical data can say so for sure.