Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[DarthRaika]

It still makes me sad that most people argue over groups or no groups when so many matches are so lopsided (win or lose).

 

Decent irl, healthy, well-balanced, competitive men want competition and near even matches. We want to win but we want it to be close most of the time.

 

The argument should not be over whether it is fair to group or not. This discussion should be about whether the majority of matches are very lopsided or not. If the answer is yes then we should discuss how to avoid this.

 

The easiest answer is cross server and matchmaking, however BW would rather get transfer money so they aren't biting. I love swtor but this is the reason I will leave and take my 100+ a month away from the game as soon as another pvp game I like comes along.

 

Since cross server won't happen the best options we have imo are mixed faction teams and a basic matchmaking system. Sure this hurts the feeling of pub vs. imp but we are pvp'rs and we want good pvp. Also the system could use this as a last resort.

 

So the matchmaking could have a 5-10 min wait time where if a 2nd premade didn't get in the q after 5-10 minutes then the system just behaves as it currently does. So during primetime this would be just as fast as it is now but on off peak times it may take a few extra minutes on occasion but not too long.

 

These two options would bring many more near even matches and a lot more fun to pvp.

 

Eventually they could even add an invisible elo system to regs and use this for matchmaking.

 

For low pop servers, I'm sorry, but there isn't much to be done. However at least mixed faction would give you faster pops.

[MotorCityMan]

Not this again...

 

Problem: premades of several skilled people are facerolling medicore and bad players.

Solution: force premades to a different queue, so skilled premades will only be a problem of medicore premades and bad premades.

And then proceed to complain how you're still getting stomped everytime the lack of matchmaking happens to put several skilled soloplayers against bads and medicores.

 

Why are you people asking to separate the soloplayers and premades? Why not ask for a solo-only queue and keep the mixed queue as it is? Wouldn't be because then it would be your queue time that gets longer?

 

Actually they tried group only for premades. 8v8 ranked, and it sat empty because all these groups of so called friends and premades couldn't stand losing. Their excuse was, "Wahhh we can't get 8 people together, it's sooooo hard." Of course these are the same people that tell others to go make friends. Not surprisingly, pve players have no problem whatsoever getting 8 man and even 18 man ops together. Apparently people have no friends when it comes to pvp if they have to face competition with equal advantages.

 

Now that 4v4 ranked is available, those sit empty as well. The old excuse of "We can't get enough people together" lie won't fly so the new excuse for premades to avoid playing other premades is "We don't like the format". Another lie. The real reason is premades don't like 4v4 is that their opposition is on equal footing. If that happens, as we have seen over and over again both in 8v8 and 4v4, is that premades evaporate and all these lies about mmo and friends go right out the window. Because when premaders lose, they start avoiding grouping with each other. So much for online friendships.

 

And people have asked for a solo-only queue for regs, over and over. And of course premade players have threatened to sabotage it if it happens by sync queuing just like how they sabotage the ranked solo queue now.

[MotorCityMan]

Ya sorry that argument doesnt work for groups considering they are doing what mmos are designed to do....ya know, playing in a group with friends.

 

Ya well no one is saying get rid of groups. They are saying groups should face groups and pugs should face pugs. So how do you keep getting that twisted all around into you being victimized and not being allowed to play so innocently with your friends?

[Chrisweaver]

Right, it's ok to take advantage of other players because they are not really people with the same right to fun as you, they are less than you, they are bads, they deserve to be stomped and taken advantage of.

 

Dehumanizing others is a common tactic sociopaths employ.

 

It is alright to take advantage of people. That's what pvp is about. Finding your enemies weakness and exploiting it. Everyone has the same right to fun as me. They do not have the right to win matches against me. That comes from being more skilled and being lucky enough to have 7 other people who are not complete idiots.

 

You can have fun from running solo, but you will have more fun if you hold no expectation to win. Reg warzone are a complete mix of random people and wzs that pop randomly. The reward for wz are not something that require that you win. When I solo queue I just deathmatch. I played objective wzs for 2 years and after that time I learned there is no meaning to trying to fight objectively when you have usually at least 4 teammates that have no idea or intention of completing the objectives. At least when there were 8v8 ranked you could use reg wzs to train for rated. Now the only Rated is deathmatch, so I use solo wzs as a chance to test all the different scenarios of killing various classes. One bonus of this is that if you are truly good you will be killing the enemy so much they cannot complete the objective.

 

If deathmatch is not your thing then find a group. It is almost impossible to complete wz objectives solo. Chances are you will be fighting an uphill battle against a premade that is prepared to do the objectives and will be better equipped to handle the task. As a solo queue you are fodder.

 

Dehumanizing people that are stronger/smarter than you is a common tactic that weak people use to control those that would rise above them.

[Exly]

Why are you people asking to separate the soloplayers and premades? Why not ask for a solo-only queue and keep the mixed queue as it is? Wouldn't be because then it would be your queue time that gets longer?

 

Good idea, but if q times did get longer it would probably be in the mixed q not the solo q.

[Exly]

Actually they tried group only for premades. 8v8 ranked, and it sat empty because all these groups of so called friends and premades couldn't stand losing. Their excuse was, "Wahhh we can't get 8 people together, it's sooooo hard." Of course these are the same people that tell others to go make friends. Not surprisingly, pve players have no problem whatsoever getting 8 man and even 18 man ops together. Apparently people have no friends when it comes to pvp if they have to face competition with equal advantages.

 

Now that 4v4 ranked is available, those sit empty as well. The old excuse of "We can't get enough people together" lie won't fly so the new excuse for premades to avoid playing other premades is "We don't like the format". Another lie. The real reason is premades don't like 4v4 is that their opposition is on equal footing. If that happens, as we have seen over and over again both in 8v8 and 4v4, is that premades evaporate and all these lies about mmo and friends go right out the window. Because when premaders lose, they start avoiding grouping with each other. So much for online friendships.

 

And people have asked for a solo-only queue for regs, over and over. And of course premade players have threatened to sabotage it if it happens by sync queuing just like how they sabotage the ranked solo queue now.

 

Quoted for truth.

[Raansu]

Not this again...

 

Problem: premades of several skilled people are facerolling medicore and bad players.

Solution: force premades to a different queue, so skilled premades will only be a problem of medicore premades and bad premades.

And then proceed to complain how you're still getting stomped everytime the lack of matchmaking happens to put several skilled soloplayers against bads and medicores.

 

Why are you people asking to separate the soloplayers and premades? Why not ask for a solo-only queue and keep the mixed queue as it is? Wouldn't be because then it would be your queue time that gets longer?

 

There already is a solo only queue but baddies dont like arenas because they cant hide behind 7 other people.

[MotorCityMan]

There already is a solo only queue but baddies dont like arenas because they cant hide behind 7 other people.

 

Ya, the same solo queue the insecure, low functioning inept premaders sync queue for because they can't compete on equal footing.

[ZooMzy]

Dehumanizing others is a common tactic sociopaths employ.

 

And dodging self responsibility is a common tactic the irresponsible and rude portions of society employ.

 

You say the game shouldn't cater to premades, yet you are the only party seeking to gain developer catering. There is no difference between a group of 8 pugs and a premade of 4 that one can't achieve, not a single game mechanic benefit.

 

Because of this, premades have just as much right to exist in a queue with pugs, as it is no more your game than it is theirs. The true difference is that unlike you, they don't seek special treatment when they lose.

 

The rules are fair, may the best man win. And as long as you keep crying that you don't stand a chance, they will always be the better man.

 

Welcome to competition. Where this is supposed to be the norm.

 

Don't like it, go start a charity fund or play a single player game where you don't have to play against anyone.

Edited March 29, 2014 by ZooMzy

[DarthRaika]

And dodging self responsibility is a common tactic the irresponsible and rude portions of society employ.

 

You say the game shouldn't caters to premades, yet you are the only party seeking to gain developer catering. There is no difference between a group of 8 pugs and a premade of 4 that one can't achieve, not a single game mechanic benefit.

 

Because of this, premades have just as much right to exist in a queue with pugs, as it is no more your game than it is theirs. The true difference is that unlike you, they don't seek special treatment when they lose.

 

The rules are fair, may the best man win. And as long as you keep crying that you don't stand a chance, they will always be the better man.

 

Welcome to competition. Where this is supposed to be the norm.

 

Don't like it, go start a charity fund or play a single player game where you don't have to play against anyone.

 

Competition would be greater if the teams were more even. Many matches are very lopsided and this is a sign of lack of competition.

 

We need mixed faction teams and premade matching with a 5-10 minute matching window. That would allow for real competition and a lot more fun.

 

I don't think you want competition though. Well balanced people with decent irl's want competition but likely you fail irl and need to stomp people here. So you just want to do anything you can to keep wz's as they are so you can keep your advantages.

 

If you don't think that premades have advantages in the current system then you are beyond stupid and wouldn't be able to comprehend my explanation of what the advantages are anyway. It all boils down to choice.

[Seireeni]

Actually they tried group only for premades. 8v8 ranked, and it sat empty because all these groups of so called friends and premades couldn't stand losing. Their excuse was, "Wahhh we can't get 8 people together, it's sooooo hard." Of course these are the same people that tell others to go make friends. Not surprisingly, pve players have no problem whatsoever getting 8 man and even 18 man ops together. Apparently people have no friends when it comes to pvp if they have to face competition with equal advantages.

 

Now that 4v4 ranked is available, those sit empty as well. The old excuse of "We can't get enough people together" lie won't fly so the new excuse for premades to avoid playing other premades is "We don't like the format". Another lie. The real reason is premades don't like 4v4 is that their opposition is on equal footing. If that happens, as we have seen over and over again both in 8v8 and 4v4, is that premades evaporate and all these lies about mmo and friends go right out the window. Because when premaders lose, they start avoiding grouping with each other. So much for online friendships.

 

And people have asked for a solo-only queue for regs, over and over. And of course premade players have threatened to sabotage it if it happens by sync queuing just like how they sabotage the ranked solo queue now.

 

Usually, people aren't asking for another solo-only queue, they are asking to separate the regs to premade-only queue and solo-only queue, or making the current regs "solo only" queue. Personally, I would be much less annoyed of they were asking an extra solo-only queue and willing to leave the regs as they are.

 

But your answer didn't actually answer any of my points. The problem with premades is that they are able to "faceroll" people. The reason they can faceroll people is, that they happen to all be good players, and since there's no matchmaking, they probably are matched against teams that don't have the same amount of players with the same skill level. Forcing them to different queue would not fix this issue. They would just faceroll premades of medicores and bads. Maybe they wouldn't be facerolling people so often (hard to say how often medicores and bads premade since they don't usually use the forums), but people would still get facerolled. It just wouldn't be you who gets facerolled.

 

Good idea, but if q times did get longer it would probably be in the mixed q not the solo q.

 

I doubt it. Many people don't have a problem with premades in their queues and as long as that queue would be faster than solo-only queue, the people who don't care about anything than getting their dailies and weeklies done would queue for the mixed queue.

 

And honestly, you're better off hoping that the mixed queue would be faster. If it's faster, most of the premades have absolutely no reason to sync-queue to your soloqueue since they get their fun and comms faster from the mixed queue. Only the premades that want to "troll" would try to get into solo queue. But if the queues for the mixed queue were long, many premades would just give up and sync queue - not because they want to troll, but because they want to actually play instead of sitting in the queue.

[ZooMzy]

Competition would be greater if the teams were more even. Many matches are very lopsided and this is a sign of lack of competition.

 

We need mixed faction teams and premade matching with a 5-10 minute matching window. That would allow for real competition and a lot more fun.

 

I don't think you want competition though. Well balanced people with decent irl's want competition but likely you fail irl and need to stomp people here. So you just want to do anything you can to keep wz's as they are so you can keep your advantages.

 

If you don't think that premades have advantages in the current system then you are beyond stupid and wouldn't be able to comprehend my explanation of what the advantages are anyway. It all boils down to choice.

 

All of this is again, because of player choice.

 

Competition in the game is failing because of how easy a group of players can dominate when they have a tank, heals, and two DPS. The reason why the standard of player is crap is purely because of choice: an overwhelming amount of players play nothing besides DPS as a main.

 

Pug stomping doesn't occur when there are good pug tanks, healers, and DPS queueing. So again, lack of competition is again because of player choice.

 

The majority chooses to play DPS, so the majority fails against premades who know better. Instead of blaming the premades for playing the game right, maybe you should play something other than that DPS.

 

Don't whine to the devs because better players understand PvP is more than just pew pew and woosh woosh, and that the game is competitive. Direction of effort is key, try getting more tanks and healers and maybe you might not get farmed so easily by a group of 4 competitive players.

Edited March 29, 2014 by ZooMzy

[Skinnychalk]

Go on Zoomzyzu.

[Pistols]

Whenever I need a good laugh, I come here.

 

[Sangrar]

Right, and asking for a match making system doesn't make someone a "bad" or a "carebear". And because they want a solo only queue doesn't mean they are trying to eliminate group vs group play and victimize you and not let you play with your "friends".

 

And not everyone that scoffs at others on the forums is a "tough" guy or "hardcore pvper".

 

look, all I want is to see a decent counterargument to counter some of the points I made regarding how a group only que would be ineffective without matchmaking which is not coming without cross server which we know is not coming. Please for the love of God counter my argument civilly instead of just using words in quotation makrs and trying to imply that I am some pug stomper.

here is a link to my counterargument I want to see some good counters and not attacks on my character or something, and I will counter without making bad statements or implicative ones about you. I at no point called anyone who asked for group only que a carebear or anything so I want some of that respect in return, is that too much to ask!?

oh wait this is the pvp forums...

[DarthRaika]

All of this is again, because of player choice.

 

Competition in the game is failing because of how easy a group of players can dominate when they have a tank, heals, and two DPS. The reason why the standard of player is crap is purely because of choice: an overwhelming amount of players play nothing besides DPS as a main.

 

Pug stomping doesn't occur when there are good pug tanks, healers, and DPS queueing. So again, lack of competition is again because of player choice.

 

The majority chooses to play DPS, so the majority fails against premades who know better. Instead of blaming the premades for playing the game right, maybe you should play something other than that DPS.

 

Don't whine to the devs because better players understand PvP is more than just pew pew and woosh woosh, and that the game is competitive. Direction of effort is key, try getting more tanks and healers and maybe you might not get farmed so easily by a group of 4 competitive players.

 

There is nothing competitive about the current state of gameplay. There is a reason that high schools split football teams between 1st year, JV, and Varsity. If some schools took a random sampling of high school football players and played other Varsity teams then those random teams would get stomped. Also, this not being a videogame with a bunch of no lifers, the varsity team would have little fun stomping game after game. When I played football I loved the close games and I don't really even remember anything from the big wins or losses.

 

The only way to make this game competitive is to add matchmaking and mixed faction teams. I don't see how you think the game is currently competitive.

 

BTW, back when I didn't have a career and I played a lot more than 10 hours a week I actually led a very good pvp guild in another game and so I do like premading. I just like fighting other premades when I premade. I also don't mind fighting premades when I pug if there is a matchmaking system that at least tries to set up even matches. I don't give a crap about losing since it is just a videogame after all. I just enjoy even matches much more than sure wins or sure losses.

[ZooMzy]

You won't get a counter argument because there is none. There is no justification that works because it is a problem of the population attitude, not the game design.

 

Imagine, if you will, that a group of friends have played basketball together for a long time. They know how to work off each other, and play off each others' strengths and weaknesses.

 

Doesn't mean jack when that group gets stomped by a pug team of LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard, and Chris Paul. Every single bonus gained from having that connection can be countered, proven by that point.

 

Premades aren't the problem. Players are, l2p plz.

[ZooMzy]

There is nothing competitive about the current state of gameplay. There is a reason that high schools split football teams between 1st year, JV, and Varsity. If some schools took a random sampling of high school football players and played other Varsity teams then those random teams would get stomped. Also, this not being a videogame with a bunch of no lifers, the varsity team would have little fun stomping game after game. When I played football I loved the close games and I don't really even remember anything from the big wins or losses.

 

The only way to make this game competitive is to add matchmaking and mixed faction teams. I don't see how you think the game is currently competitive.

 

BTW, back when I didn't have a career and I played a lot more than 10 hours a week I actually led a very good pvp guild in another game and so I do like premading. I just like fighting other premades when I premade. I also don't mind fighting premades when I pug if there is a matchmaking system that at least tries to set up even matches. I don't give a crap about losing since it is just a videogame after all. I just enjoy even matches much more than sure wins or sure losses.

 

If you think people have fun consistently farming pugs, you're pretty far off. Premades eventually get their fill, their egos will eventually be sated.

 

The population, on the other hand, never improves, because the game's example can be broken up like so:

 

JV Players = DPS bads who just want to deathmatch and not think.

Varsity players = People who play DPS, heals, or tanks and know their role on a team, as well as doing their best to play their part.

 

This game, at the end of the day, is a varsity race. PvP will never be DPS only matches of death battles, despite the developer attempt to cater to that mentality.

 

Premades may be packs of varsity players, but when all it takes to be varsity is dedication to competition and caring about a team based game, you should blame this standard casuals accept to avoid responsibility.

[Shmegeh]

LOL this game lost any and all competitive feel to it when EAware announced their removal of ranked Warzones with 2.4 so for the person who just said this game is competitive... *sigh* you're the reason we can't have nice things

[jmsdread]

it would be real nice to just be able to queue solo and not have to go up against teams that get into the solo matches, also seems to me on the Shadow lands server that the WZ and GSF matches are very one-sided , even when you think your gearing your toon or starfighter right . as subscriber EA / Biofail have really drop the ball when keeping their long term customers satisfied, and making it so we still want to remain customers

[cycao]

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[Sangrar]

(╯°-°)╯︵ ┻━┻

 

How do you do that!?!

[Raansu]

How do you do that!?!

 

Its Japanese emoticons.

[ZooMzy]

Your analogy makes no sense. That would be like me saying you can live a long and fulfilling life with AIDs and so you shouldn't worry about using protection when you have anal sex with prostitutes.

 

Your logic should not be based on what might happen occasionally. Logic should be based on ...logic. Such as that while pugs can be better than top tier premades they usually aren't and currently matches are usually lopsided one way or the other. I had a match earlier where my team lost 660 to 659. That was a loss but it was a lot of fun. I had a lot more fun in that match than I did in an earlier match where I won with over 700 to 200.

 

You need to really think about the way you see things. Your way will get you no where in life. What took me from poor to very well off was true competitiveness and learning what others (bosses and customers) wanted.

 

Lol

 

You claim I can't speak on what may be minor occurrences, yet suddenly, every premade is now "top tier"? Since when did grouping suddenly make you elite? When in reality, the issue is how people approach the game, where some play by the rules and a majority choose to try and change the game to their expectations, which is an impossible occurrence. The problem isn't the rule abiders, it's all of you who claim the game should only be DPS specs fighting at objectives.

 

You still have yet to make a legitamite counter as to where premades are superior to pugs in game mechanics, while I have shown that in all reality, a premade is no where close to invincible by that theoretical scenario.

 

And dear lord, you would bring up a RL topic because of how silent I force you to be in the face of logic. There's a reason why I dominate in WZs, and why I do quite well for myself as a collegiate NCAA distance runner on scholarship, and why I understand competition better than your little "I played flag football in high school once" crap.

 

If you want to take this to a RL debate, then fine by me. But that's as far as you'll get into my personal life; go outside and smell the roses if you think your plan works so well. There's a reason why a majority of the player base is trash, because your ignorant understanding of competition shows you truly deserve every beat down you get in a WZ.

 

Step up your game. Or go back to your RL, PvP isn't an economic or social construct of buisness/competition. It is pure competition.

Edited March 30, 2014 by ZooMzy

[cycao]

how do you do that!?!

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