Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4

[Aikiyc]

LMAO r u kidding me?

 

1. Merc gets an interupt.... ranged DPS with heavy armor... w/o a backside anymore

 

2. No nerfs on Marauders??? that so lame they r so IMBA in both PvE and PvP

 

come on BW wake up!

 

Again... This was not the full patch notes. This was a mechanics changes preview. Nerfs to damage and the like will be revealed in the ACTUAL patch notes. Not in this preview. Calm down.

[tausser]

Once again PVP QQ's ruin it for PVE folks. Thanks BW!

 

LOL, not sure how I erased the post I was working on but it came to this ^^ basically.

 

And what the heck is up with those armors in the first shot, the black outfit in particular? This is Start Wars? Really?

[bobmcbo]

As a mercenary healer, I like the sound of this.

[Wewtzorz]

Definatly do NOT like these changes.

 

all reasons have already been mentioned, just throwing in my vote that this is a horrible idea for 1.4

[Legalsomewhere]

Adding my 2 cents on the revamp of the talented Rocketpunch/stock strike.

In my opinion adding the snare affect and taking out the knockback will remove a strategic knockback that Arsenal Mercs have. Whether intended or not, the knockback served as a defensive move that could interrupt Marauders ravage/heals/Assassin procced FL and provide some distance (although hardly much to make the distance worth it).

The change is really only going to affect Arsenal mercs as the current talent point is too high in the Arsenal tree to be picked up in the other specs, therefore I'll address the issue in the perspective of an Arsenal Merc rather bodyguard spec.

 

Because of the extremely close range for rocket punch to go out, you will be in melee range for more likely than not, most of the snares duration, let alone create enough distance to start a Tracer missile without them interrupting you once it breaks.

 

I don't always play Arsenal but when I do, i use Rocketpunch to interrupt ravages/force lightnings, and this change not only seems like a nerf in its relevancy in pvp but a nerf to the tactical usage of a skill.

 

Dreadfell

Bastion

[Majedron]

Looks like PVP ruins another fine game. Why can't devs think oh, lets improve the underpowered instead of swinging the nerf bat over and over till there is nothing left.

 

BTW, LEAVE ME MERC ALONE!

[Aikiyc]

Looks like PVP ruins another fine game. Why can't devs think oh, lets improve the underpowered instead of swinging the nerf bat over and over till there is nothing left.

 

BTW, LEAVE ME MERC ALONE!

 

There's pretty much no direct nerf in the preview. How closely did read the preview, exactly?

[SlickAWG]

"Overload and Force Wave have been redesigned. These abilities now knock back all targets within a 15-meter 120-degree cone in front of you. Furthermore, these abilities now knock back all potential targets instantly; they no longer wait for an animation note at the end of the ability animation."

 

So, so very excited for this. Can't wait to see what Force Wave will look like once this is implemented. Just knowing that I won't need to wait for the Super Stomp animation to finish before pushing enemies back brings a smile to my face.

[Asmok]

Thye should call this game Stealth Wars , form what they have said. gurantee it your gonna see people hitting and leaving more and more, stealth classes every where now. . You thought it was bad now with all groups of stealthers now? they gave them a increase in there ability to use it more often so ya good game on that one.

 

And with that when u got back stabbed on your sorc or hit from behind your knock back is in front of you lol ya that was good design there.

 

And with changes made to vanguard/powertech funny that people really say that there a mellee class with a gun that kills me . I do not know of any gun that only shoots to 10 m and that taking away certaina abilitites to only limit them for bigger hits down below 10m in most cases. well those class got borked with your resolve system that was stated and other mellee classes as well if your going to get chained stunned up clsoe and personal , I wouldnt want to be a mellee class thats for sure. Ranged just became 2nd to stealth classes imho and moved mellee down.

 

But Ill take it with a grain of salt and wait to see what really comes out I know this is just a prelude to whats coming but doesnt really look promising except for a merc interupt lol.

[xianphoenix]

I am sorry BW this patch will suck I mostly solo my stuff now I have to wait 2 min to use my cloak and force wave is a cone really?! I use my stealth for killing mobs and now I have to wait 2 min between enemies. Please dont implement this.

[WushuDragon_]

Y THERE NO UPDATE TO COMPANION LISTED? D= Y U no mention Same Sex Romances?

[Brasandus]

I am sorry BW this patch will suck I mostly solo my stuff now I have to wait 2 min to use my cloak and force wave is a cone really?! I use my stealth for killing mobs and now I have to wait 2 min between enemies. Please dont implement this.

 

Good lord, are you just dumb or unable to read ?

[Jherad]

Yet another nerf to the weakest PvP AC. Seriously? Remove a knockback (one of our few counters for sins/marauders/juggs) and replace it with a melee range root for a RANGED class? Does that not strike you as insanely stupid?

 

Oh, and you reduced my Commando's stun to 10m, because apparently the corpse is still warm so beat it some more.

 

Please, take the interrupt back. Just leave us alone already.

[waltersmom]

Good lord, are you just dumb or unable to read ?

 

He can't since all they are doing is BUFFING INSTANT CLOAK! So you can use it more often not a 2 mi cool down for cloaking...................

[moiraesfate]

And so it begins. PvP'rs demanding changes that screw over PvE. I thought that maybe, just once, we'd have a PvE centric game.

[NodnarbChawz]

Changes look interesting and I am particularly excited to test out the stealth updates. Resolve changes look scary for skilled teams, but I guess that's what TC is for. Keep up the good work!

[Elyx]

Hey Austin. Thanks for the info. could you shed light on whether or not this is it? your first paragraph is pretty much saying "here's our balance changes for the classes". I certainly hope not.

 

I'm assuming there's more...and you just wanted to put that out as soon as possible so all the PvP'ers wouldn't leave before the patch to try out other games.

 

I hope they are looking at class balance seriously...I hope that all that effort people put into those posts on the forums where you asked us our opinions was worth it.

 

I just...man, I read that and my hopes just dropped. really? you've been quiet for this long about the mighty 1.4....and when you finally come out, it's all about PvP?

 

well...the merc interrupt is really needed. glad it only took you 10 months to figure it out. I wont groan internally then next time I get the battle of Ilum and we have 2 mercs for DPS. this is a good thing.

 

I'm still up in the air about the change to the smash skills....i liked the radius. cone...not so sure. well see. Honestly, I would just like some feedback that this isn't it for work on classes.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Elyx

[Bedrayne]

as an assassin I cloak before I attack, taking down a mob doesn't take that long, but for argument sake, let's say it takes 30 sec

I am now going to have to wait 1½ minutes before I can attack the next mob

let's say I have to clear out 10 mobs in a mission, that mission will now take 15 minutes longer for me to complete

 

I play the game to have fun, not to sit around waiting

if this change is because of PvP then a simple if statement will fix that.. check if a player is flagged for PvP!

 

with this change, my assassin won't be fun for me to play

 

Someone is confusing Stealth (Out of combat enter stealth available unlimited out of combat) with Force Cloak (currently 3 min cd soon to be 2 min cd aka a buff). You got buffed and are complaining...

[NoaFlux]

I want to thank Austin and co for his hard work. Seems pretty good to me. Should make the game more interesting.

 

I never used my force stun from far away anyway. I just recently started using it at a distance..cause I realized I could. I don't see a huge advantage in using it far away. This won't effect my game play and it seems fair. If we can all stun from 30 meters then we can stun someone non stop, that's just not fair.

 

But lastly...

 

AHHHH I love force wave! PLEASE DONT SCREW THIS UP!!! US TANKS STRUGGLE TO GET DAMAGE AS IT IS!!! IF YOU GUYS AT SWTOR MAKE IT "FACE FORWARD" ONLY our damage will go down again!! AND EVEN THOUGH ALL THIS NEW STUFF IS GREAT, WE STILL DON'T GET MORE PROTECTION/POINTS FROM OUR SKILLS.

 

ALSO FACE FORWARD JUST SEEMS DUMB. THAT WAS MY FAVORITE MOVE!!! YOU RUINED IT IN TWO WAYS, VISUALLY AND DAMAGE WISE.

 

I suggest you let the people behind at least get knocked back a little bit, and keep the damage!!!

Edited September 5, 2012 by NoaFlux

[Henu]

Again... This was not the full patch notes. This was a mechanics changes preview. Nerfs to damage and the like will be revealed in the ACTUAL patch notes. Not in this preview. Calm down.

 

You say calm down now but if we dont tell BW how unhappy with the changes we are then they will never listen later. EG 1.3 patch, they did not listen to the testers and when the patch went live it was full of bugs and had weeks on fixes.

 

We dont want this to happen again.

[aurellian]

Oh my God I'm getting an interrupt as a commando! Dude the entire 1.4 update could have just been that and I'd have been happy! I won't be one of those people who comment on a class I've never played. I will say that every change I read seems to benefit me in pvp and doesn't change my game in pve. Therefore, I'm ecstatic.

[MartinSPT]

A lot of this looks rather good, but the changes to sage/sorcerer are a bit unsettling.

 

Having played a tank class a lot lately in PVP, it is the sage/sorcerers that out damage and out live the team if they know what they are doing. One thing is they are often close range players that keep themselves healed and use force run to avoid area effects. So the loss of range on stun won't hurt them; however, the decrease on force run will just make them impervious if they know what they are doing. Force Armor, Heal, Hit HIt, Force Armor, Run, Heal, an don and on.

 

I understand that there will never be balance, but have a good amount of PVP experience and geared well, the only profession I can't get a one on one badge is a sorcerer/sage. This applies to Vanguard, Mercenary, Guardian, Marauder, Assassin, with the only exception that is a small change of winning is an Operative that is Vibroknife specialized and fast hard attacks for a low HP Sage.

 

 

With defense/damage dynamics in the game, the professions that use force/tech attacks that hit hard, are deadly, as Defense don't apply, and neither does Shield, leaving a stacked tank Guardian or Vanguard essentially as vulnerable as a Marauder, as their attack peel through all your protections. (Maybe take defense and let it apply to tech/force attacks, and not just weapon ranged attacks, as it applies on Tanks. This is why Assassins are so squishy for PVP tanks, unless they cloak and run, as their defense/shield is worthless in most battles, and their regen is only viable in PVE.)

 

 

Curious if this has been 'observed' or studied on the live server in PVP. Does Bioware monitor or watch gameplay, not just for statistics, but track individual players that seldom die and have incredible damage output?

 

 

PS It is also annoying to run into one of these Sage/Sorc players, as they spend all their healing on themselves to stay alive, have high damage, and get MVP votes for being good healers, even though they only healed themselves. (In PVP if you don't notice the healer 'healing' you, and their heal level is the highest, you are giving them MVP for keeping themselves alive at your expense.)

[Deewe]

Adding my 2 cents on the revamp of the talented Rocketpunch/stock strike.

In my opinion adding the snare affect and taking out the knockback will remove a strategic knockback that Arsenal Mercs have.

Wanting to add my feedback here.

 

Hutball was mostly the only WZ in which I felt useful in PvP because even if I was running with a "plz gank me plenty" ad over my head, KD allowed me to really help my team mates.

 

Already commandos had less CC, less interrupts, less DPS and less survivability than other classes and yet you remove one of the most useful skill.

 

You just made my gunnery commando useless in Hutball.

 

 

Now about the resolve seems to me there are a few things that seems you don't get right:

• CC should not allow players to be ganked to death. I'm not sure your changes really help that. IF CCed we should not be able to be CCed for at least 15 (if not more) secs.
  
• Roots should add to the resolve bar. I did not read they will.
  

 

There's the reason the PvP part is named StunWars. How does your changes are addressing this, it's not clear from your post.

 

We’ve also made adjustments to the Resolve system in Game Update 1.4. We’ve adjusted the gain logic of Resolve such that simultaneous and overlapping control effects no longer linearly add together their Resolve gain values. Instead, using a crowd control ability on an already controlled target now applies reasonable Resolve gain values by comparing the incoming control effect to the greatest of existing control effects.

 

As a result of these Resolve changes, unorganized teams will no longer pay huge penalties for overlapping control effects at critical moments. For example, it can frustrate players when pickup groups accidentally make a Marauder immune to Control because two or more teammates tried to stun him at once. The resulting unstoppable wrecking ball that the attacker transforms into made for a pretty poor experience for players trying to escape him. Additionally, we don’t like it when a Huttball ball carrier gets “fed” full Resolve by a disorganized pickup group trying to stop him from scoring by simultaneously landing multiple Control effects

Question is, what's happen when a player who is already under CC has another CC tossed at him?

1. Is the stun/root working?
   
2. Is the stun/root delayed?
   
3. Is the stun/root not applied?
   
4. If not applied is the stun/root lost and on CD or is it simply not triggered?
   
5. Does the stuns and the roots have the same effect on the resolve?
   
6. Is the resolve bar reset upon cloning?
   

[ConzarCR]

Sage Force Wave has saved my PvE bacon countless times in the past...

 

Completely surrounded by mobs, Force Wave, Force Armour, get a quick Benevolence on. Now I'm much more likely to not survive when things have gone awry, simply because I can't hit all opponents with it, and is no longer an escape spell. Ridiculous, and PvP interfering once again.

 

Why can't it be talented? Force Wave no longer triggers behind you, but is much more powerful in a 120° cone in front of the caster.

[AdmiralParmesan]

Honestly this "balance" is not very good over all for most classes. Very little has been done to change the fact marauders/sentinels and powertech/vanguard are still the only viable dps pvp specs. These changes actually hurt sorc dps a considerable amount and merc dps a decent amount. Only allowing electrodart/ electrocute to be used within 10 meters is a big hurt to two ranged dps classes that we not excelling at pvp in the first place.

 

This overload change seems like to would hurt sorc survivability more than it would help it. Although I like the change in concept, unless the knockback pushes people back further than it currently does, this is more of a nerf than a buff. Simply put this "moderate" instant cast heal will not help sorc survivability much at all unless it heals for a good amount, most claim its around a 4k heal. Without any REAL increase to sorc dps survivability or burst damage potential dps sorcs will still take a back seat to other more capable classes that offer better utility, survivability and burst damage potential in pvp.

 

The new root immunity on force speed should be available to all sorcs spec baseline, not only to the healing tree.

 

In the end run, at least for my main character (a dps sorc) this change does not bring much hope for the future of my class. Lightning received some help, but it appears I will have to continue running healing spec if I ever want to join a serious rated pvp group.

 

Honestly right now its hard to even get into a pug rated as a dps sorc, its very sad. This patch as is will only make it harder for me to burst down targets