I'm really disappointed in the operative changes as a whole. On so many different levels. First and foremost of which is a general concern that all the healers basically have the same kit to draw from with the new heals introduced. Not much in the way of differences? I could be all nitpicky about all this ******** with concealment (leth looks decent-ish), but I'm just going to stick with Acid Blade/Hidden Strike. When I opened from stealth, in PvP or PvE, it was something like Acid Blade > Hidden Strike > Shiv > Corrosive Dart > Lacerate > Lacerate > Acid Blade > Backstab > killy-stabby things. This may not optimize for maximal straight upfront damage ASAP, but it maximizes total damage after a period of 12 seconds, because both Acid Blades are allowed their full 6 second duration. Longer if you blow Cloaking Screen for another Acid Blade/Hidden Strike to repeat the above rotation a second time. If we lose Hidden Strike, and Backstab still has a CD longer than 6 seconds (the duration of Acid Blade), we are seriously ****ed in the burst department. But of course, we can't have a Backstab with a 6 second CD cause that would mean endless Acid Blade which definitely is too much. So why not just keep Hidden Strike?! If BioWare can't see that as is now, when the hell are they gonna get their **** together and make ability maps to SEE this problem? Unless of course Concealment isn't supposed to have burst, in which case sayonara. I'll play something else that still fits the role it's supposed to. It's just unbelievable to me that this error with AB/HS is sliding through their testing.

I just rewatched the stream. Force Mobility does not appear on his hotbars. I dunno which stream you were watching. I see you quoted only one line from my post. Did you fail to read that I was questioning what we gain directly in relation to our RPG character customization? I get that this Discipline crap makes things much faster and easier on the dev side so they can do other things. I think I even said as much in my original post. Yeah, we have illusion of choice now. We definitely still have illusion of choice with Discipline. But we only have 7 things to pick. We lost customization, however trivial or pointless. I'm not defending illusion of choice, per se, but one of the big draws for me in RPGs is the fact that I can change some of which of the abilities I get to fit my playstyle. Even if it's just a formality. Apparently all we can change after 3.0 is gear, seeing as the Utility Tiers are largely what we already have. Am I missing anything? Edit: I guess what I'm getting at is, yes, okay, Discipline might be good for the health of the game. But. But! Instead of losing things, could we perhaps have gotten a system that gives us things? Discipline is just skill trees hashed down to 7 choices. Is there something different they could have done that would've given us something new concerning player choice?

Not really. It's no more complex. They've added almost nothing new in the Utility Tiers for Sorc. It's generally stuff that were already in the trees. We already know all that stuff. And it's really, really easy to figure out which ones a player has by what they do, for example, Chain Shock. There's nothing hard to memorize. A Sorc casting on the move has Force Mobility. That's not hard to figure. You seem to think you're getting new active abilities with the Utility Tiers. You get no new solution abilities. You get no new option abilities. Every single utility they showcased for Sorc was a passive. And they were almost all **** we already have in the trees. Now, yes. Some of those passives are good, like Force Mobility for casting 1 spell on the move, and the Cloud Mind giving damage reduction for those PvPers out there. But there's definitely a lot of utilities in there that will never be picked by endgame players, either PvE or PvP. Just like now... in fact... So we get **** when we level, cause it just unlocks automatically, and we still have the same old cookie cutter illusion of choice on a smaller scale. What, exactly, did we, the player, directly gain from this? Oh. Right. Virtually nothing. Change to the amount of dev work, sure. Change to their balancing needs, sure. What did we get out of the deal concerning player customization? Zilch. Same skill tree options. Different interface to do 'em. I am not impressed. I'm still having flashbacks of WoW. BioWare really needs to step up the Utility Tiers if that Sorc showcase is representative of the rest. The spread of useful utility is very top ended (naturally), and generally makes everything else not interesting by comparison, while still being subject to cookie cutter.

My concern is the hit to differing playstyles within specs. Not so much in the sense of hybrids, though I enjoy making those. But in the sense of say, I'm in this group in say... a warzone. I'm gonna be the mid-controller, thus in need of mobility or stuns over straight damage. So instead of taking X skill that's for pure damage, I take B skill for longer stun. This is a change in the side utility skills, yes, but greatly alters my playstyle in a given match. In other words, this change to the skill trees, making it automatic gimmes and completely standardized damage with some piddly utility picks, better have some amazing hallelujah uber earth shattering yippee-ki-ay sweet mother of god epic utility picks in the tiers, that have very definitive playstyle altering ramifications. Beyond the pathetic reduced AoE damage they used as an example, which is exactly the sort of skill people talk about as being a boring constant pick. WoW released Cata and told me to play my rogue their way or to get the hell out. I hope BioWare is not making the same statement. I like to be able to guide my spec into a playstyle that meshes with me, has my own flair. Like I can do in say... KotOR, or Dragon Age, or Mass Effect?

Oh ****. It's Zorion again. We complaining about tactical focusing now? Cause like, it makes total sense to let certain targets have free reign at all times, amirite? rofl.

Updated! And yes, since Galactic Starfighter is all PvP, it makes sense to have their records contained here as well. It was decided at the time (look at pages 10-12, I believe it is) that the Overall tab would be used for consistency and to keep the records clean looking. Theoretically, extremely high DPS and HPS (the categories most effected by the decision) should be relatively consistent from round to round (since the players and map don't change). So the Overall tab should be a fairly accurate representation of each individual round together, minus the occasional statistical outliers. If you guys wanna discuss perhaps adding in 'by round' to the 4v4 records, go for it. I can tell you ahead of time that I'd probably add entirely new categories (just for DPS/HPS, I'm thinking) for the 'by round' and leave the others as Overall. Which would be really, really cluttered and possibly confusing. xD

Heh. Whoops. Well, at least he was in the right place, even if I put down the wrong number. xD Fix't nao.

All updated! Again, sorry for the delay. I can answer this. Because I personally knew you and many others had transferred most/all characters to other servers and this thread started from a clean slate with allowance of old records from people still on the server. Also, Jackobie had this to say, as well, at the time: You were no longer active on this server, so I took your records down. Now, I also said this, at the time: Anybody could've informed me that you were still active on pub side on alts I did not have names for, and I would've put you back immediately. But apparently some people are too lazy to stand up for their friends. *pointed stare at Missoni* Anywho, I put your two healing records back up, Tor. So no big deal now. Though seriously, you can just send me a message anytime people. I'm more than willing to fix mistakes, because I know I'm liable to make mistakes from time to time, especially since I've been out of the loop, so to speak, for a while now.

Very very sorry for not updating this over the holidays (the one time I'm sure you were all playing regularly and often, eh?) I'm gonna be cruising through and updating tomorrow after work. I have no excuse, other than laziness was a factor. Though after my car's transmission got completely shredded 2 hours into a trip from Seattle to Missoula, Montana, I was a bit more concerned about getting my ride fixed for a while in there. xD Next two weeks, I'll be honest. My schedule ramps up a bit for high school gymnastics coaching stuff so updating might be a little slow until after then. But nothing like the complete absence over the holidays. Sorry again for making you guys wait so long. <3

'Tis updated.

Thank you for the clarification ^.^

Missoni/Jawagram... Look, I know you're trying to be nice and all. But while you're being nice posting records for others, do you think you could perhaps at least abide by the first rule, as quoted below? There's no ifs, thans, or buts. It is a must to put even just a short little 'with permission'. I know it's tedious bureaucracy and all that, but not everyone wants their records posted, and I need some way to come back to entries and double-check validity. Thank you.

Yes, it does. When I'm not horribly lazy and distracted by nightmares of my high school team getting 90 points in a gymnastics meet (out of a possible of 200, if you were curious). >.< Sorry this round took so long; it is now updated! Though it does come with a surprise! ... Sorta? Some people in these threads have had trouble with just the 1 2 3 list. I think it would be a bit much to ask them to actually use their keyboard and organizational skills at the same time. The current method I'm using on my end worked well this time, and I'm content to continue with the way entries are already being posted by you fine folks. This is correct. After 2.0 entries are fair game. The thread is named 2.4.1 because when this thread started, it was 2.4, and it was the second attempt at a PvP leaderboard during 2.4, so I used the typical patch note-y notation, and added another .1 on the end to signify the version. Mostly cause I wanted to amuse myself with the silly thread title every time I open this thread... I have cleared up that first sentence now, though. Should be less confusion on that in the future. ^.^;;; And finally, all the red highlights in the rules have been up for a while now, so I'm resetting the highlights. I know, they're wall of texty, but you really should only need to read it once, eh? Newest changes are below, including the new addition, Galactic Starfighter! Rule 7 is cleaner to read. Rule 9 was changed, and Uliic was awesome enough to be the example of this before I got the chance to change it. Hooray Uliic! As a final note to all you, I really, really, REALLY want to stress that when posting for others, you need to explicitly say in your post, as the first thing in your post, with EVERY new post of yours that's applicable, that you're posting for someone else or many someone elses WITH THEIR PERMISSION. It's in rule number 1, and was the first unwritten rule in Baarf's old versions of this thread. Just *********** do it. Don't assume, you should know the old saying. Don't be the *** from the saying. Please? Thank you.

Shout out to Sirenis Imp side for being a boss at communicating and organizing the other night. Thems was some fun matches!

Dude. Quit being a snot. I know it's pathetic forum code, and not HTML or C+ or Java or whatever else is out there. 'Tis why I kept saying this isn't hard, just time consuming. Also, if you had gathered the implications of rule 10, you'd know that I have no obligation to enter records of people who piss me off. I'm nice enough, but QQing because I don't update every hour on the hour is just sad. The keeper of the last server records thread updated even more sparsely than I do. Quit complaining and be happy that at least this thread exists.

You may have noticed that I haven't put in ANY of the entries after my last post saying updated, which is just before Tasty's entry in post 144 two days ago. So it's not just you. I do this in clumps now that the thread's gotten up to speed. It's not hard to update this thread, by any means. But it does take a fair bit of time (read, distinctly not 2 seconds). Certainly a lot longer than it takes me to make a quick couple sentence response to snotty PvPers. But since you seem so curious as to the process behind updating, I'll give everyone a sneak peek into my madness. Even though I'm taking the precious, precious little free time I have today that I was going to spend on GS. But hey, I was gonna update tomorrow when I have my day off. First example shall be Tasty's solo kills record. First thing I do is look over the screenshot. Confirm the map, and the record, glance over everyone's numbers to see that it's a reasonable match. Everything looks in order, so I go to my trusty notepad document which has the entire coding of the original post and scroll down to the solo kills section. This is a really quick entry because Xaverri is the only one in it so far. Excellent, I copy/paste her record. [ color=teal]5 - Xaverri[/ color] <Silent Council> Sniper [b ][ color=darkorchid]VS[/ color][/ b] ([ url=http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/3819964/pics/original/1719506.jpg]Screenshot[/ url]) It looks something like that, without the spaces in the coding, of course. Now I just have to open a tab to Tasty's entry and enter her info. [ color=teal]5 - Tâsty[/ color] <Cash Rock Thunder Mammals> Shadow [b ][ color="[color=DarkRed]blue[/color]"]AH[/ color][/ b] ([ url="http://www.pictureshoster.com/files/miiz38rzfuokvlj1vda.jpg"]Screenshot[/ url]) So it looks something like that after I've piddled around with copy/paste and mouse highlight + type over. The red text is what I had to change. Baaaaasically everything, except the coding, changes. And the map color coding changes with just about every entry too. So it's not hard, just takes some time. Then in this case, after I have the above, I can move on to the next entry, because Tasty is just tied for first, and I just pasted the record in the 2nd place slot. Next one will show the true time sink. We'll use Iyris' overall healing as the example, though for the sake of this example I'm going to pretend she got second (don't worry, she'll be put in properly as 5th). I check the screenshot, yatta yatta, looks good. Scroll to overall healing to find this: [ COLOR=Green][ B][ SIZE=4]Overall Heals[/ SIZE][/ B][/ COLOR] 1) [ color=teal]2,578,274 - Tamami[/ color] <Apex> Scoundrel [ b][ color=darkgreen]CW[/ color][/ b] ([ url=http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/3493410/pics/original/2261725.jpg]Screenshot[/ url]) 2) [ color=teal]2,508,711 - Missoni[/ color] <Game Genie> Scoundrel [b ][ color=darkgreen]CW[/ color][/ b] ([ url=http://i.imgur.com/FvXZoRC.jpg]Screenshot[/ url]) 3) [ color=teal]2,367,150 - Am'iris[/ color] <Dark Empire> Operative [ b][ color=darkgreen]CW[/ color][/ b] ([ url=http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/2981480/pics/original/2265023.jpg]Screenshot[/ url]) 4) [ color=teal]2,231,140 - Jurikins[/ color] <Game Genie> Scoundrel [b ][ color=darkgreen]CW[/ color][/ b] ([ url=http://puu.sh/52eGV.jpg]Screenshot[/ url]) 5) [ color=teal]2,157,939 - Jackobie[/ color] <Project Mayhem> Operative [ b][ color=deepskyblue]NC[/ color][/ b] ([ url=http://i.imgur.com/om7sqcH.jpg]Screenshot[/ url]) Yikes. So again, for the sake of example, let's pretend Iyris' record is 2nd. I have to do this: [ COLOR=Green][ B][ SIZE=4]Overall Heals[/ SIZE][/ B][/ COLOR] 1) [ color=teal]2,578,274 - Tamami[/ color] <Apex> Scoundrel [ b][ color=darkgreen]CW[/ color][/ b] ([ url=http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/3493410/pics/original/2261725.jpg]Screenshot[/ url]) 2) [ color=teal]2mil something - Iyris[/ color] <Guerrilla> Operative [ b][ color=deepskyblue]NC[/ color][/ b] ([ url=http://i.imgur.com/gCQ4YHy.jpg]Screenshot[/ url]) 2) [ color=teal]2,508,711 - Missoni[/ color] <Game Genie> Scoundrel [b ][ color=darkgreen]CW[/ color][/ b] ([ url=http://i.imgur.com/FvXZoRC.jpg]Screenshot[/ url]) 3) [ color=teal]2,367,150 - Am'iris[/ color] <Dark Empire> Operative [ b][ color=darkgreen]CW[/ color][/ b] ([ url=http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/2981480/pics/original/2265023.jpg]Screenshot[/ url]) 4) [ color=teal]2,231,140 - Jurikins[/ color] <Game Genie> Scoundrel [b ][ color=darkgreen]CW[/ color][/ b] ([ url=http://puu.sh/52eGV.jpg]Screenshot[/ url]) 5) [ color=teal]2,157,939 - Jackobie[/ color] <Project Mayhem> Operative [ b][ color=deepskyblue]NC[/ color][/ b] ([ url=http://i.imgur.com/om7sqcH.jpg]Screenshot[/ url]) And then I delete the sixth record, and renumber the places since I had to drop Iyris in right below Tamami. And then you get something that would look like this. Overall Heals 1) 2,578,274 - Tamami <Apex> Scoundrel CW (Screenshot) 2) 2mil something - Iyris <Guerrilla> Operative NC (Screenshot) 3) 2,508,711 - Missoni <Game Genie> Scoundrel CW (Screenshot) 4) 2,367,150 - Am'iris <Dark Empire> Operative CW (Screenshot) 5) 2,231,140 - Jurikins <Game Genie> Scoundrel CW (Screenshot) Yay, I've done two records. That would've taken me about... 7-10 minutes if I wasn't writing out this sneak peek. A lot of the time is lost jumping between tabs to double and triple check my editing, making sure guilds are right, numbers are right, that I put the entry in the right place. I'm a bit of a perfectionist which I realize is a personal fault, but nonetheless burns up time. Anywho, so that's what goes on behind the scenes. It's not hard work at all. Nothing like my real job. But it does take a fair bit of time, and with a commute, high school team to coach early, and classes that run way late into the evening (and only days off are Thurs morning and eve, and Sunday eve), I like to suck every bit of free time I can out of SWTOR in the mornings when people are like... actually awake and playing instead of drooling on their keyboards at 1am EST. Call me selfish, I don't care. I'm here to have fun, and volunteer some of my time to the Ebon Hawk community when my time allows. Everything will be updated soon-ish after this post, since I have like half the newest entries already written up. ^.^ Hope some of you curious fellows enjoyed the behind the scenes!

No, they're not being ignored. I just don't update this thread every hour, or every day. Patience, man.

You can read through the last time it was entered, or I can summarize it. Basically, either the scoreboard majorly screwed up in its calculations, or Peyton came into the match way late, and thus had the DPS artificially inflated by the shortness of her participation. Either way, it's not a valid entry for the DPS category, but it's a great honorable mention.

Updated. Revamped the method on my end of entering and placing new entries that should (hopefully) make things a lot faster and less tediously time consuming on my end. Yay! I thought so. But I haven't been PvPing much (read: like, not at all :< q.q Wooooork! *shakesfist*), so I wasn't sure who was back/still around. I have removed and replaced the respective entries. Also, I figured this should've been obvious, Ebon Hawkers, but this leaderboard is for Ebon Hawk residents with screenshots of games played by Ebon Hawkers ON Ebon Hawk. If they're not on Ebon Hawk anymore, then they shouldn't be having their record posted by friends, regardless of permissions granted. I'm refraining from putting this in the list of rules for now, since I think this should be a pretty obvious, common sense thing. If we could all just keep the off-server-player-entered-on-our-server shenanigans to a minimum, that'd be awesome. Edit: Though, I feel I should again mention that if you think/know I've made a mistake, or included/excluded a player that shouldn't be, always always always feel free to send me a personal message. I am not perfect by any means (even though I'm a self-admitted perfectionist), so if you catch an error, chances are I screwed up, and need you, fine person, to point it out to me. <3

Updated for the moment. When I get home from work today (oh man, last week sucked), I'll finish fixing some things and probably update yet another rule.

You'll note, Rauken, that BioWare said this era had thousands and thousands of Jedi and Sith. Emphasis on the base terms. They didn't say this era had thousands and thousands of Jedi Masters and Sith Darths. Darth, even in this era, pre Bane's rule of 2, was a pretty limited title. Exclusive to the Dark Council, and to a very, very, VERY small handful of Sith with reputation and power spheres rivaling the Dark Council. It does not make sense in the canon to say every player character can claim to be a Darth. They uh... can't. All Darths are accounted for. Same with Grand Moffs and Grand Admirals and the like. Also, from a more practical view... The RPers who mesh the BioWare story character with the player story character? It seems kinda silly that everyone and their mother has LITERALLY finished the Inquis and Warrior story lines. I would think canon characters can only go through an experience once, ya? Doesn't make sense to say your Darth from that perspective either cause then you're just one of thousands occupying the exact same position in the galaxy. Talk about breaking the laws of physics. xD

Updated. Also, be looking for a new section sometime early December! I hope you all will enjoy the surprise (if you haven't already figured it out). Xaverri, your links are bad, at the moment of this posting. D: I wanna put in your entries! Can you take a looksie and see if something's up? Also, the Arena Leaderboard shall require the Overall tab. Individual Round tabs will result in the screenshot not being accepted. See the (yet again) updated rule 4 below. Sadly, this means Missoni's entry for Arena HPS must be taken down. I'm very sorry that I have to do this, and I accept full responsibility for the retroactive bump. I really should've thought of this ahead of time, so it's entirely my fault. :< Please post up a new HPS number though, Missoni! Would love to have it!

Alright, so this is what I'm thinking. First, two categories for hybrids, for both Warzones and Arenas. 360k/360k damage/healing, and 360k/360k damage/prot. 360k because that's the medal award before the game just gives up on giving you credit. xP I may be convinced for a slight reduction in requirement for the protection hybrid, though. I'll just wait and see how this works out first. As quoted below from the updated rules post: Second, concerning ML_Doubletap's question... I hadn't really considered if we should allow by round or not (I know, shame on me for not thinking ahead on it >.< ). Looking back over the current arena entries, only one slipped by as a singular round instead of an overview of the totals (Missoni's HPS entry). So my question to you guys is: Do we want to let arena entries be posted by round only in addition to the overall tab? Or should it be overall exclusive? I'll let you guys discuss and provide opinions during tonight and tomorrow since I'll be working all day tomorrow anyways Also, a change to rule #5, as quoted below, in response to the odd screenshot links I got from Kelik-rah. I'm accepting Kelik-rah's screens, but in the future let's try to refrain from cropping things. There's just too many places on the internet now that will allow you to upload a full sized, 2560x1440 or bigger image in full res, without downgrading quality or requiring cropping. no u! *runs off, cries, and hides until tomorrow evening* <3 In all seriousness, this made me laugh. inorite? What kind of a gamer am I, having a life outside of video games. Pah!

Okay... I'm just... way to tired to finish this tonight. Look for more progress Thursday! Including a rules update, potentially! And new sections. And stuffz. Yeah.

I'll get back to you guys about this and the deeps/prot thing by sometime Thursday. I don't have a lot of free time tomorrow and it's late tonight :< Also, the entries are not updated as of my hitting 'Submit Reply', but they will be updated before I go to bed tonight! Hopefully! >.< Long day. Too many inter-person politics. i r teh exhausted.