Nippon Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) While Bioware may talk about lofty goals of "content as usual or faster" and "bug fixes will continue" it is an UNDENIABLE FACT, that any game which has introduced a Real Money Transaction (RMT) store to their game, quickly and inevitably loses sight of it's goals, and RMT Store "content" quickly overwhelms. It's the nature of the business. The RMT Store is the new "foundation" for the game's economic model. Therefore, it will get the most attention, and that envitably leads to less resources and less attention to other things which are not "profitable" - like bug fixes. Like story content. Like Operations. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Exactly what he said, A team of people are already in place "to make the store work" and those people do not care about your end game content. I truly hope Bioware really really prove me wrong but.... Get ready for rinse repeat endgame, carbon copy zones and every grind imaginable that forces you to buy tokens..!! The lights are green, everything is go, and it all points to the Cartel Tokens and in game store. Expect TCG to come shortly after to maximize absolutely rinsing the life out the consumers wallets. Edited August 1, 2012 by Nippon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toketopia Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 It's over. In a few months there will be very few people still paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staavis_SC Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) You mean the stuff you have to buy out paces the free stuff or just bug fixes? Meaning anything EA/Bioware can make a buck on (vanity items, pets, services, p2w upgrades, etc.) become the primary focus of updates and patches, while bugs, new story, new quests, in-game events, raids, etc, which they may or may not make a buck on, take a back seat. That's been the majority of my experience with F2P games. The company has to make money. The money comes from RMTs. Therefore, development for the RMT store is the priority, while everything else is secondary or even non-existent. Quite literally, STO in it's transition to F2P, went from a game that was making some good progress on expanding the game with Featured Episodes and such, to a "Barbiedoll dress up game" in an MMO shell, with a Star Trek theme. The majority of what has been added to STO is ships, uniforms, vanity pets, emotes, etc. Edited August 1, 2012 by Staavis_SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qubertt Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 I guess i will just have to be a sad panda in WoW were at least the content is big and new on release even though its been dumb down for the masses. WTB a mmo that can be greater then WoW in every way guess no one is willing to take the chance and spend the money to do it . I had high hopes for swtor i will give it a chance for a few more months but out look does not look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripster Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Quite literally, STO in it's transition to F2P, went from a game that was making some good progress on expanding the game with Featured Episodes and such, to a "Barbiedoll dress up game" in an MMO shell, with a Star Trek theme. The majority of what has been added to STO is ships, uniforms, vanity pets, emotes, etc.None of EQ2, DDO or DCUO have gone that route. While EQ2 and DCUO (SOE games) have frequent additions of vanity items in the cash shop (especially EQ2) they still focus on the content of the game from events and raids to fixes. EQ2 just finished revamping both of its original starter cities (really big overhauls) and has another expansion coming out while DCUO has added new power sets, a weapon style, as well as some raid type stuff and are now in the process of revamping the all the power sets to improve them. DDO, based on the e-mails I still get, has constantly been adding more content although that seemed to slow because the latest was a major expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakyTank Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 sto still charges subs and lts for everything...... its actually more cost effective to drop your sub because the sub benifits are so small....i hope this game doesnt turn out like that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Meaning anything EA/Bioware can make a buck on (vanity items, pets, services, p2w upgrades, etc.) become the primary focus of updates and patches, while bugs, new story, new quests, in-game events, raids, etc, which they may or may not make a buck on, take a back seat. That's been the majority of my experience with F2P games. If that is your expereince then you haven't played things like LOTRO, DCUO or DDO. To bad to as those are pretty good F2P games. While the cash shops exists, it in now way over shadowed the game. The company has to make money. The money comes from RMTs. Therefore, development for the RMT store is the priority, while everything else is secondary or even non-existent. Every company has to make money but if you played something as simply as LOTRO you in no way have to use the store and if you so choose, you can get pretty much everything you need just by playing the game. Store bought things should you want them, for time played. The F2P has been a good thing in more games that I have seen than those it's not been good in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skodan Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 We intend to continue releasing new content as well as fixing bugs and issues in the game after the Free-to-Play option launches. Please make sure you've read this news article for more information about our plans! this may just be worded wrong or im interpreting it wrong, but this seems like you will be fixing bugs/issues after f2p, why not work on them before so there are less when new f2pers are starting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 this may just be worded wrong or im interpreting it wrong, but this seems like you will be fixing bugs/issues after f2p, why not work on them before so there are less when new f2pers are starting I do not think it means they will stop bug fixing before fall man. It means they will continue to do it after fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogol Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) The people who are saying the game is dead are the doom&gloomers, who wanted the game to die all along. Why would someone that is still here after 7 months, want the game dead? I do not want the game dead, but I am very, very pessimistic about this game. Alot of players are leaving, bugs aren't getting fixed, PvP is purely gear-driven, the GF has too many bugs and takes too long because you need one healer & tank for every two DPS and so on... On top of that, I saw what f2p does to a game, I was there when LOTRO went f2p... you can not be serious when you give LOTRO as an example of how it should be: their f2p model is pure pay-to-win, with alot of store exclusive items that you need to clear content, like in-combat rez scrolls, stat tomes, regeneration food... all of which you need to finish the new content. this may just be worded wrong or im interpreting it wrong, but this seems like you will be fixing bugs/issues after f2p, why not work on them before so there are less when new f2pers are starting Converting a game to f2p takes alot of DEV resources and alot of DEVs are already fired, so there aren't alot of DEVs working on bug fixes anymore. Even the most visible bugs, like the launcher, aren't getting fixed anymore. Every single player that logs on sees that bug... every player that logs on sees that they didn't test this... every player that logs on sees they aren't fixing stuff... Edited August 2, 2012 by Yogol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezla Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 this may just be worded wrong or im interpreting it wrong, but this seems like you will be fixing bugs/issues after f2p, why not work on them before so there are less when new f2pers are starting Because they can't sell those to you now for Cartel Coins? Want to decrease your planet loading times by 10 seconds? 100 Cartel Coins. You're sick of clicking on the SWTOR in the launcher? Want to go straight in? 200 Cartel Coins. Wanna go from Belsavis straight to your ship? 100 Cartel Coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeada Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) On top of that, I saw what f2p does to a game, I was there when LOTRO went f2p... you can not be serious when you give LOTRO as an example of how it should be: their f2p model is pure pay-to-win, with alot of store exclusive items that you need to clear content, like in-combat rez scrolls, stat tomes, regeneration food... all of which you need to finish the new content. If you need in-combat rez scrolls to beat a raid you are doing something wrong. Stat tomes lost all purpose with Isengard when they removed the stat cap. 70 of a stat is worthless when you are pushing 2k in top end gear. Regen food can be crafted... Want to give some more examples that I can shoot down? The few things they have that are actually store exclusive are just for lessening/removing grinds. They are for convenience. They allow the players to decide what is worth more, their time or their money. They do not give power, just alternative ways to attain power that can be obtained within the game. Edited August 2, 2012 by Daeada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNCommand Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 this may just be worded wrong or im interpreting it wrong, but this seems like you will be fixing bugs/issues after f2p, why not work on them before so there are less when new f2pers are starting They have stated that content will continue to be added and bugs will be fixed before F2P arrives, The F2P FAQ says it will arrive in the fall, but the developers have promised a new event in August as well as the HK.51 companion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaludy Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 i wonder if i can buy a day / night cycle with all the cartel points i will have. small thing but it is one of the odd things i was really hoping to get implemented. that and a /hood function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyarc Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 They have stated that content will continue to be added and bugs will be fixed before F2P arrives, The F2P FAQ says it will arrive in the fall, but the developers have promised a new event in August as well as the HK.51 companion Talking about promises, there was a promise of a new content every month. Then there was an excuse for the delay of 1.2 with promise of new content every month. When there was the last content update we got? When are we getting next? Secret space project? Chat bubbles? Image design/barber shop? I can easily deal with patch delay or reschedule. But there is no communication other than "we have great things coming soon". On top of that, we have crappy engine that supposed to support very fast content development and delivery. New content was not coming when the team was in double size. Do they expect me to believe that after stuff cut, they will be able to do it faster and better? I still enjoy some parts of the game and plan to stay subscribed even in F2P era. But these kinds of promises in context of past months are just a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 this may just be worded wrong or im interpreting it wrong, but this seems like you will be fixing bugs/issues after f2p, why not work on them before so there are less when new f2pers are starting Learn to read. We intend to continue releasing new content as well as fixing bugs and issues in the game after the Free-to-Play option launches. Please make sure you've read this news article for more information about our plans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosiah Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Here is a free to play model that would make sense for this game: Content updates that cost money, every 6 months or so. And by content, I mean story, companion quests, reputation grinds for more story, etc. No other game offers this kind of gameplay--and most of the people who quit did so because they ran out of content. (Not because there's no nightmare mode of an op they've already done about eightly times.) Here is a free to play model that makes no sense for this game: Charging money only for the endgame, which is one of the most basic and least impressive endgames in the MMO market. I'm honestly confused. I want to feel like I am missing something here. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasticles Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) We intend to continue releasing new content as well as fixing bugs and issues in the game after the Free-to-Play option launches. Please make sure you've read this news article for more information about our plans! BUT, Until this launches, please deal with the bugs. They're here to stay until November ...... I DID read, I DID see 'continue' ... but....heh.....nah, I won't say ..... /sarcasm Edited August 2, 2012 by Rasticles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrydurf Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Free to Play is unlikely to have any significant effect on the quality of the game beyond likely bringing profits in line with what EA wants and thus keeping the game going. Bad games that go free to play continue to be bad with the same problems they had without free to play, good games continue to be pretty good with free to play as they continue to produce basically the same quality of game. Free to play does generally mean more smaller updates to content or systems. Bite sized changes that access too can be sold in the cash shop at regular intervals to keep people paying into the shop for the content. So what you can expect is basically the same as what you have now but when content comes it will not be giant expansions with two new ops a warzone and three flashpoints each of those ops, FPs and warzones will be released individually in serial. As for bug fixes those will continue to be fixed as all bug fixes are based on severity. The bugs everyone complains about here are minor and may stick around awhile, game breaking bugs are hotfixed quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skodan Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Learn to read. We intend to continue releasing new content as well as fixing bugs and issues in the game after the Free-to-Play option launches. as i said it may be how im understanding it, it says they will fix bugs and issues AFTER F2P launches, as i said it could just be worded weird, because why not say "we intend to continue releasing new content as well as fixing bugs and issues in the game BEFORE the F2P option launches. unless of course they arent going to be doing bug/issue fixes until after the f2p launch and just add more content until then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinaa Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) We intend to continue releasing new content as well as fixing bugs and issues in the game after the Free-to-Play option launches. Please make sure you've read this news article for more information about our plans! You could start by fixing very important, major game breaking bugs, right now, oh that's right you don't care about them. If all players in an operation have major lags and delays at the same time, it is our fault and all we get is, check your connection. Well let me tell you that my guild is starting to get the feeling, it's not worth it to pay you anymore. We stood by until now, while we did QQ about missing content (especially nightmare mode Denova that should have been in 1.3), we still did not think about leaving or quitting - until the last raid and your strange F2P plans. Now some of us already have cancelled the subscription, still have a lot of game time left, but if there isn't going to be big changes soon, it's going to be bye bye. Here is the top 3 reasons why: 1) extrem lagging in operations We only raid 1,5 hours a week (since there is no more content) but those 1,5 hours are plagued by so much lags that it becomes more of a pain then fun. 2) Too little content, 4 bosses for so many months and a missing mode that was promised to come a little after 1.2 and still is not here, see the Nightmare Denova thread in operations forum. 3) abilty lag/delays getting out of hand It may be related to 1) but it's been around since day 1, was made a bit better and became worse since 1.2 and the last weeks. Now the funny thing about that is, I haven't seen this kind of problem in ANY game I played so far, which were quite a lot. And it's not pure lag either, on my Guardian I have this all the time, I would even say every 10 seconds or so I loose a global cooldown without the ability going off. It's frustrating and still no fix after so many months. Nobody in my guild was thrilled or happy with the F2P announcement, because we just don't trust Bioware anymore with this game and your advertising for F2P is flashy and all, but full of lies for me, you cannot bringt out more content or fix more (important) issues with less money and less people and in less time. Edited August 3, 2012 by Shinaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalPremise Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Ok so does this mean they will not fix any of the problems this game has ( fps issues, hacks, etc.)? Most games that go F2P have a period where there is lack of new content and a focus on small, cheap bug fixes in preparation for moving in new content. However, truly systemic bugs such as FPS issues that require large amounts of recoding will only be addressed IF the F2P model produces a great deal of money. Historical: LOTRO and CO improved. STO did not. Will they stop making new content after the release of the content they are releasing with the F2p? No. Every F2P game so far has come out with at least some new content. However, be prepared for some of this content to be paid. I would suspect that eventually Operations will be gated behind a single payment, that there will be new content for everyone in the way of class stories and flashpoints and PVP and new planets, but that cosmetic options will be pay only. Historically, this is what happened with LOTRO , STO, CO, CoH, and others. Will there be no xpacs? will we ever be able to lv past 50? I don't think there will be an expansion pack per se. Leveling to 60 is almost certainly going to happen, but it may be restricted to paid players. Do i need to find a new MMO to play? Yes. But that's always the case. If you play only one MMO , no matter how good it is, you will eventually burn out. Take advantage of the F2P system. Wait, play for free, see if they make improvements you like. If you do you can pay , if not, your characters are still here to fiddle with at no cost to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 as i said it may be how im understanding it, it says they will fix bugs and issues AFTER F2P launches, as i said it could just be worded weird, because why not say "we intend to continue releasing new content as well as fixing bugs and issues in the game BEFORE the F2P option launches. unless of course they arent going to be doing bug/issue fixes until after the f2p launch and just add more content until then Stop nitpicking the words. It quite obviously means they will keep fixing bugs like they do now after the f2p switch. Noone except some guy nitpicking and playing semantics would think anything else. They have even announced new content for August. You really think with a patch like that they wont do any bug fixes? Come on guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalPremise Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Nobody in my guild was thrilled or happy with the F2P announcement, because we just don't trust Bioware anymore with this game and your advertising for F2P is flashy and all, but full of lies for me, you cannot bringt out more content or fix more (important) issues with less money and less people and in less time. You think a business is moving to F2P because it will lose them money? Let's say the game has (just a made up number) 750,000 subbing players right now. That's about $11 million a month. Let's say after F2P conversion, they only have 300,000 subs, but also have 2 million transactions for $5 a month also happen. That would be almost $15 million. Someone has run these numbers and decided there's more money to be made there. is it going to be "good", no. None of the F2P transition periods I've seen have been good. But they aren't going to stop fixing bugs because no one is going to spend money on something that's buggy. As far as lags, I still haven't had any in my ops. Then again, I haven't had crashes, fps delays, or any of the myriad other complaints everyone else claims they run into so I must be lucky. Regardless, if you have lost faith in the ability to deliver, just go free and wait to see what happens. If after 3 months people are saying the bugs are fixed but there's no new content you'll know how this goes. The bottom line is some people will not be happy with whatever is done, because they're going to put making money before trying to please every customer, just like every other business out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetOldBob Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) i wonder if i can buy a day / night cycle with all the cartel points i will have. small thing but it is one of the odd things i was really hoping to get implemented. .. Heard this request before, but I can't imagine how it would work. I ask this question at http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4972075#post4972075 Edited August 3, 2012 by SweetOldBob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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