I don't know who you are and I'm usually very good at yelling at the idiots who yell in pvp. So maybe you're not that bad. Or your insults are not memorable.

I loved my old guild very, very much, but when our membership dwindled to only a few of us (and none of us with the strength to rebuild), I realized it was time to find a new home. There are several guilds that impressed me on our server, a few I had friends in--but one stood out from the rest, and that was Pax. The application process has only reinforced that feeling. Everyone is really nice, and genuinely fun to be around. Their application process is not short, but I think I understand why it's not short. A guild isn't just about skill or gear or loot--it's about personalities and getting to know one another. The rest of the stuff just comes when you've got a good fit. I love playing ToR, but I've been very pessimistic about the game's future for some time. Playing with Pax has made me set aside those concerns and concentrate on the postive. And the positives are fantastic.

I think it's great that you guys have done what you can with the cards you were dealt, and I continue to enjoy the game. I still wish there were resources for story updates, class stories, new companions, and gear earned by new quests and encounters instead of cartel points, but it is what it is. You guys have done a commendable job making lemonade with some pretty crappy lemons. HOWEVER, and this is petty of me: "cadence" as a word to describe your development cycle? It's terrible. Please get one of the writers you have left (surely you have at least one?) to proof these things and not Joveth, who I think started this whole "cadence" thing.

I was out of town this weekend, but I'm really happy to see the discussions here, and the positive energy (Force, I sound like a Jedi hippie) in this thread. Like I said, losing has never bothered me. Hearing trash talk about teammates really does. (FWIW, Panopticus, ty for taking this issue seriously when I told you about your recruit that was an idiot too. As far as I know, he's improved--he's only on ignore on one of my characters. And kids will be kids.) Maybe I was fortunate--when I started pvp there were no instructions and it literally took me six months to figure out *** huttball was about. (I am slow, hate football, and... well, I am slow.) But in those days, no one would publicly disparage anyone for this. I am still startled at things I've learned that never occurred to me--throwing the ball to ground for one. How to play a Force-leaping class. Poor Veiny never remembers she has an ae stun or a guardian leap until.... well, perhaps I share too much. Nevermind that. My Jedi Guardian is a total genius. Please vote for her often. Do not scream at her for running through the fire instead of leaping.... I digress. My point remains: quitting on your team is never a good thing. If you have 15 minutes to play, you can have 15 minutes to lose. Rarely would that time be recouped if you quit and requeued. Especially if everyone is doing the same thing. Thanks for taking this issue seriously, server. Kosiah/Veiny --Rep P'ink/Mekk--Imp The Jin Legacy

Yeah, I'd like to say I give you credit for this. I give everyone credit for admitting why they leave, and while I agree with Illusia that it's a lame thing to do, it's also understandable. But I ask you this, everyone who leaves because it's too much effort and too much of a pita to lose: when the win is too easy do you quit then too? I mean, apparently you're none of you in it for the commendations? You just leave when it's not a challenge, or not fun?

Ozz, for what it's worth, my spouse is the same. Might be a testosterone thing? I laugh at failure. He rages. Look, if it's bugging you, don't do it. I get that. But I also encourage you to take a deep breath and laugh. Because, honestly, losing badly can be pretty funny.

Yes, that was the one. I figured you guys were communicating, somehow--but it wasn't just the three of you in there. That match was insane.... and awesome. Not that I healed much compared to Chirascuro, I think, was the sage healer. Anyways.... Sometimes I'm wrong. Sometimes we're all wrong... which, Pax guy, is what I think you miss out on by qq'ing too soon. Thanks for your eloquent response though. I do know where you're coming from. I still think you're wrong. It is what it is. If everyone quit the second they realized they'd lose, there'd be no game. Hopefully, BW will make good on their promise of expanding the pvp. Hopefully, that will give us all a reason to keep doing it. I think it's actually a good testament to how well-designed it is, that we've kept at it this long, with so few maps. I've spent a few weeks now doing the slow, painful grind from recruit (and, what was more painful, from battlemaster that I'd already spend a really long time acquiring seven months ago), to almost full war hero with a few ewh pieces on four characters. This process has made me especially impatient with people who can't stand to lose. Seriously, that's part of the process. And I don't think Ms. Secura was saying that an rp server is no place for pvp. I think she's saying, an rp server is no place for the "**** newb" brand of pvp. Which I would like to be true.

Then you're part of the problem, ozz. I don't know why you can't get your head out of *** long enough to realize that. So I am just going to tell you: you're part of the problem. Do you have an issue getting 50 commendations for five minutes worth of your time? Because in a really bad group, that's about what it is. If the game goes on longer than that... you can find something fun to do in it. Try. MMO players in general will always take the path of least resistance. Whether it's leveling in the Overthere against a zone wall or farming easy points off pick up groups in ToR. There's always going to be that mentality. A challenge of game design is to account for that. In many ways, ToR does this quite well. But the no-penalty quitting wz is not one of them. Not that having a penalty was better, actually. I seem to remember they did experiment with that. But here's the thing: you always need new blood coming in or the whole thing falls apart. Complain about people in recruit gear, quit when you're going to lose, make it so boring for everyone in EWH that they don't play... and, guess what? PvP will be dead. I am far from perfect or expert, but I really don't want that to happen.

No, I want to have a discussion. Seriously, I do. I find it frustrating too, you know. Some of that may be showing. And I might have a hope that by calling people out on the whining, it might stop. Frankly, I'm sick of being called names by players who think I did something wrong. I'm sick of being mocked for my gear. I'm sick of hearing some of you do it to others. I'm sick of people like that dude yesterday, who said, oh what was it? "Go back to F2P u nwb dont u know u don't leave 1 toon gradng snow u nwb." Look, it's no fun for anyone to get rolled. Remember when you needed three medals and not one to get anything from a wz? That's about when I started 50 pvp. I think it was only a week or something it was like that, but that was also one time I stopped doing 50 pvp. Lol. It's my understanding that ranked single player was something that they meant to put in the game. Why that never happened... I dunno. Would that take some of the top-end pressure off? Again, dunno. Warhammer had a similar issue, where it became impossible for people to catch up--and yet they were stuck in the tier with the best geared. It's probably the reason the game failed. Or at least, one of the major ones. Since we're not devs, and we can't really make them do anything, or make EA spend any money on this game, can we as a server just work for a little less whining? If it's not fun, don't do it--but there are ways to make it fun. And nothing, nothing is more fun than actually turning a game around. Thanks. Mekk, Kosiah, P'ink, Veiny etc.

And don't even get me started on the gear blaming. You all should have been playing pvp when the divide was even worse. Oh, right. Most of you were. I will never understand the need to call players out publicly for their gear. If you're really that concerned, send a whisper.

It's remarkable how few of you are willing to sign your names, and yet all too willing to admit you're too afraid to lose because the game isn't "fair." Of course it's not fair. One suspects if you weren't so busy whining about guilded premades--(btw, I've been in pick up warzones where we've beaten ALL of the guilds listed--whether from dumb luck, or people on our side who could match them, no idea--certainly wasn't me.)--you'd be whining about something else. Seriously? It's that hard to just play the game? That hard to lose? As I said, some of the best games I've been in have been ones where people left after seeing the roster list, or after a teammate made a dumb mistake and the other team capped,. or planted a bomb, or scored a goal. It's not over until it's over--and, if you play your cards right, you still get valor, commendations, etc. So who cares? And again, leaving the queue penalizes us all. Of course people will leave for real life--I've done it myself. People also go linkdead. I 'm not talking about that. I'm talking about running like little children because the game isn't "fair." What really isn't fair is playing a game with a pack of entitled brats who are so afraid of "losing," (for which there's no penalty, btw, just less stuff), that they quit instead. Playing bad pvp can be just as fun as good pvp. You just need to learn how to do it. I pvp because it's a challenge--never moreso than we're losing. And Prisoner, if you leave a warzone because your own team is whining, you are missing one of ToR's great joys: the ability to yell at your own team for being cowardly wusses. Okay, perhaps that isn't a great joy. Perhaps it's just an annoyance. I know groups like that, where my team is huddled around the node trying to get medals are the ones where I get the least, since I just wander around cc'ing and dying until it is over. Kosiah, P'ink, Mekk, Veiny, etc. Jin Legacy

Then you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. PvP requires a population, not the same 16 Republic and Empire players going over and over again. If you want that, do a premade. PvP only works when there are people playing it. There are a finite number of people with all the gear they need, and a much, much larger number of people who won't even bother pvping because of attitudes like yours. Look, I could have all the pvp gear I needed too if I was gearing one player and not four. (Or if I didn't take extended breaks, but I digress.) As it is, I've pretty much geared all 4 in about three weeks. It's not that complicated. It is more complicated, however, when there's so much ragequitting. Are you saying that you can't stand a loss? Can't "waste" 15 minutes because you might lose? Can't figure out a way to get medals even with that loss? Doesn't sound like you're much of a player then, does it? It's also totally possible to play with a team with some undergeared players, play smart and if not win, at least have a good match. If you haven't seen that happen, I feel bad for you.

I have four 50's, both Republic and Imperial, and it's amazing on both sides how many times the other team caps something in the first minute of the game and half of our ops group ragequits. Why? Is there something I am missing where that's an effective strategy? I don't get it at all--it's not like you can't get points for a losing game. If anything, sometimes you can get MORE points vs. time put in because it's either going to be over sooner, or it will be a close match and you'll be fighting for every inch. Today I saw a game of Novare go from 96 vs 26 to us with the 26 winning. I saw a voidstar win at zero hour. I saw a huttball match go from 4-1 to 4-4 and the opposing team won in the last 2 seconds. That's what I call FUN. That's why I play. If I want to steamroll people and win all the time I'd... well, frankly, I just wouldn't play. I'd go do something fun. What isn't fun? Watching the entire queuing process be destroyed by people too lazy, or too stupid to suffer a loss, or put out any effort towards winning, or working with their team whatsoever. Make no mistake--I'm not good at pvp--but I try. I enjoy it. And I'd like to see it played. So less whining, more fighting, please. Sincerely, Kosiah Jin Mekk Jin P'ink Jin and Veiny Jin

Class stories. I've done 4, and almost finished two others in beta. I want to see all of them. I want to meet all the companions. Game mechanics--I think the classes are all pretty fun to play, even if the pve game can be a little bland sometimes. PvP--despite only having a few maps, it's a lot of fun. Flashpoints and grouping: I don't do it often, but when I have, it's been fun and challenging. Reasons I will probably stop subscribing soon: none of these elements seem like they're being expanded upon. I'm still playing, a year later, a game with magnificent potential that seems to have been completely abandoned by its creators. At times this is very depressing.

Okay, maybe it is a weird licensing rights thing. But there is still a lesson to be learned there. There's another point on Taris, where you're capturing footage from the endar spire. You get the footage and give it to someone. How hard would it have been to replay it at that time? But, again, nothing. You hand it in, get experience, and never hear about it again. Is that also a weird licensing rights thing?