Suggestion for Vangaurd/PT, mara/sent, and tank changes

[Paulman]

A number of the defensive cooldowns in the game should be based more off of stats in the game(like armor, avoidance or what have you) rather than blanket percentage damage reductions. This would allow players to still have defensive abilies that work but they have the ability to be countered by other classes if spec'd or gear for it.

 

 

Vanguard/PT ablities in the assault/Pyro trees should be tweaked to do less base damage but work more off of penetration. I think the other Vangaurd/PT tress could be tweaked also to fill their intend roles better. Supposedly the role of the Assault VG/pyro PT is to be a tank killer, but in the current state really just do tons of damage to anyone.

[xBloodcrazed]

A number of the defensive cooldowns in the game should be based more off of stats in the game(like armor, avoidance or what have you) rather than blanket percentage damage reductions. This would allow players to still have defensive abilies that work but they have the ability to be countered by other classes if spec'd or gear for it.

 

 

Vanguard/PT ablities in the assault/Pyro trees should be tweaked to do less base damage but work more off of penetration. I think the other Vangaurd/PT tress could be tweaked also to fill their intend roles better. Supposedly the role of the Assault VG/pyro PT is to be a tank killer, but in the current state really just do tons of damage to anyone.

 

PT's abilities already do the lowest base dmg and work off of armor pen

[Paulman]

PT's abilities already do the lowest base dmg and work off of armor pen

 

Currently they have the best damage in the game not the lowest.

[Asmok]

Currently they have the best damage in the game not the lowest.

 

I could think of a few other classes that have the best damage in the game but i think its based on opinion and not actual fact.

[alcek]

I could think of a few other classes that have the best damage in the game but i think its based on opinion and not actual fact.

In pvp, it is an actual fact. Followed closely by marauders.

[Meanerr]

A recent Huttball match by two very good teams on The Bastion (Hey I'm MVP vs Sleens) on Pansa's Twitch stream.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/pansa_mouretsu/b/324624147

 

Match starts at ~2:05 and scoreboard is at ~2:20.

 

Top 4 DPS in the game, all Powertechs, with top 3 doing about 550K damage. Top healers in the game, 2 Operatives at 600K and 650K.

[Quor]

PT's abilities already do the lowest base dmg and work off of armor pen

 

Only one major ability "works" off of armor pen, and that's Rail Shot. A good portion of PT damage is elemental (Flame Burst, PGC dot, IM) with the other two major damage sources being classed as Tech Kinetic (ignores defense/shield but is mitigated by armor). And as already noted, PT/Vanguard are consistently the highest DPS classes, often tying and sometimes beating Mara/Sent damage.

 

A nerf is needed for PT Pyrotech and Vanguard AS spec. Plain and simple. Likely Mara/Sent as well, but exactly how you can go about nerfing them in pvp without screwing pve is a tough problem to solve.

[Esiqual]

A PTs damage potential in the hands of an expert player are no highter then any other classes burst damage specs. I have seen full length warzones with over 1 million damage done by every major AC in the game.

 

I will fully agree that the damage is to easy to apply and is why anyone with half a brain can score average damage numbers on a PT pyro spec. When i say average i mean 500K damage in a warzone. If you are not pulling those sorts of numbers on any AC you have speced for damage then you are playing it wrong.

 

The actual damage numbers do not need to be reduced. The setup for high burst damage needs to be harder to achieve that is all.

[Livelyhound]

 

A nerf is needed for PT Pyrotech and Vanguard AS spec. Plain and simple. Likely Mara/Sent as well, but exactly how you can go about nerfing them in pvp without screwing pve is a tough problem to solve.

 

I was thinking about it and the simplest answer to me seems to be:

 

Add elemental / internal resistance augments. Thus people could choose to swap out dps augs for defence/resistance augs and it would help tanks actually take tanks stats in pvp for example, and would allow everyone the option of reduced Pyro damage if they so chose.

 

Seemed to me to be the least intrusive fix all round as it gives players choice without wielding the nerf bat or massively affecting balance... more of a nudge if you will towards equality.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Livelyhound

[Dmasterr]

A recent Huttball match by two very good teams on The Bastion (Hey I'm MVP vs Sleens) on Pansa's Twitch stream.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/pansa_mouretsu/b/324624147

 

Match starts at ~2:05 and scoreboard is at ~2:20.

 

Top 4 DPS in the game, all Powertechs, with top 3 doing about 550K damage. Top healers in the game, 2 Operatives at 600K and 650K.

 

only saw the game mentioned... and it was pretty bad. I think they need more ppl with grapple.. Unless they zoom out so they can actually use the ones they have properly, i mean cmon.. situational awareness ?

[JackNader]

Look

 

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with Pyro/assault spec Powertech'/Vanguards. Yes they are currently ****** warzones. Is this the fault of the class?? NO!!!!

 

Bioware has now released several generations of gear upgrades. The latest being War hero + full augmentation. Each armor upgrade, upgrades the "kinetic and Energy" resistances. You will notice that Elemental and Internal resistances are the same as they were on day 1. Every time bioware releases new gear, Elemental and internal damaged base attacks are gaining a bigger damage buff than all kinetic or energy attacks because they aren't being reduced!!!!!

 

It just so happens that the bulk of pyro/assault spec Powertech'/Vanguard damage is "elemental" or ignores armor. The fix is to add an elemental and internal resistance component to the armoring slot.

 

Healing suffers from the exact same problem! All heals ignore the targets armor. Bioware kicked the can down the road when they nerfed the hell out of healers in 1.2. It's funny because I am already seeing a glimpse of "healers of the old republic" returning. In a few more gear releases it will absolutely be healers of the old republic again.

[TheronFett]

For the 137th time:

 

PT/VG damage is high due to mobility. Most attacks are instant, and have a wide effective range. This allows the class to constantly DPS where other classes require more setup time.

[Legendari]

For the 137th time:

 

PT/VG damage is high due to mobility. Most attacks are instant, and have a wide effective range. This allows the class to constantly DPS where other classes require more setup time.

 

There are multiple reasons why PT/VG damage is consistently high. One reason is because the class is stupidly easy to play. You can set up a skill bar with 5 slots on it and go pull top damage in a WZ with a pryo spec using only 5 skills on that bar. The damage type plays a big role as well and not even a tank can mitigate a reasonable amount of it.

 

I think it's pretty clear to just about everyone that something needs to be tweaked here.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Legendari

[Twor]

There are multiple reasons why PT/VG damage is consistently high. One reason is because the class is stupidly easy to play. You can set up a skill bar with 5 slots on it and go pull top damage in a WZ with a pryo spec using only 5 skills on that bar. The damage type plays a big role as well and not even a tank can mitigate a reasonable amount of it.

 

I think it's pretty clear to just about everyone that something needs to be tweaked here.

 

The big hitters are TD (kinetic damage) and RS (weapon damage with 72% ap- not 90 its not plain additive). Look up how the defenses work on those types of damage.

 

I'd hope the uninformed baddies like you would inform themself before ranting atleast. Can't tweak bad players who can't even count.

*edit*

 

Here counted for you. You also don't use more than 5-6 keys in an average 1on1, no class does thanks

 

1.auto attack...lol hammer shot

2.stockstrike

3.ion pulse

4.Incendiary Round

5.HIB

6.Assault Plastique

7.Sticky Grenade...stop caps

8. Pulse Cannon ....1/2 ammo or more and its almost a free attack.

9.Full Auto.... 1/2 ammo or more and its a free attack..better damage then hammershot

10.Tenacity

11.Riot Strike

12.Harpoon

13.Adrenaline Rush

14.Reactive Shield

15.Stealth Scan

16.Reserve Powercell

17.Recharge Cells

18.Mortar Volley

19.Cryo Grenade

20.Neural Surge

21.Neural Jolt

22.Sonic Round

23.Battle Focus

24.Guard.. HuttBall

25.Plasma Cell...HuttBall

26.Ion Cell..HuttBall

 

1-23 i use every PVP match.... 24-26 only for HB ....

 

maybe bads press 5 buttons but i press almost all of them ....i honestly press 1 more button on my Guardian...

Edited July 14, 2012 by Twor

[TheronFett]

There are multiple reasons why PT/VG damage is consistently high. One reason is because the class is stupidly easy to play. You can set up a skill bar with 5 slots on it and go pull top damage in a WZ with a pryo spec using only 5 skills on that bar. The damage type plays a big role as well and not even a tank can mitigate a reasonable amount of it.

 

I think it's pretty clear to just about everyone that something needs to be tweaked here.

 

Don't fool yourself into thinking you don't use the same basic damage rotation as well. Every class in this game is stupidly easy to play, so that argument is completely invalid.

 

 

You're also wrong about the damage type, but that's probably too advanced for you to understand. We'll come back to that one later.

[SwordofSodan]

currently they have the best damage in the game not the lowest.

No they don't gunslingers/snipers do! Edited July 14, 2012 by SwordofSodan

[SaulSerpine]

Don't fool yourself into thinking you don't use the same basic damage rotation as well. Every class in this game is stupidly easy to play, so that argument is completely invalid.

 

 

You're also wrong about the damage type, but that's probably too advanced for you to understand. We'll come back to that one later.

 

Yeah.... But babynoobcrymoars like to think their class is hard to play and others class are too easy and op. No skill required.

 

Lol. Dat game is very very easy.

[Legendari]

The big hitters are TD (kinetic damage) and RS (weapon damage with 72% ap- not 90 its not plain additive). Look up how the defenses work on those types of damage.

 

I'd hope the uninformed baddies like you would inform themself before ranting atleast. Can't tweak bad players who can't even count.

*edit*

 

Here counted for you. You also don't use more than 5-6 keys in an average 1on1, no class does thanks

 

Don't fool yourself into thinking you don't use the same basic damage rotation as well. Every class in this game is stupidly easy to play, so that argument is completely invalid.

 

 

You're also wrong about the damage type, but that's probably too advanced for you to understand. We'll come back to that one later.

 

Yeah.... But babynoobcrymoars like to think their class is hard to play and others class are too easy and op. No skill required.

 

Lol. Dat game is very very easy.

 

Thanks for your insight and insults wise Powertech/Vanguard players, but last time I checked, being on fire from Incendiary Missile + Flame Burst spam for 100% of an encounter with a pyro-spec PT/VG causes ELEMENTAL damage. Sure, it may not be bursting as hard as your leet railshot and TD combos, but it adds up nonetheless. It also ignores armor rating and cannot be shielded (for you real "baddies" who don't know how your own classes work). It is incredibly easy to apply the burns and keep them applied at all times, which opens the door for the rest of the PT/VGs damage.

 

Also, no idea how you can think no class uses more than 5-6 keys in an average 1v1 (not that this game should be balanced around 1v1 anyway). In any given fight, I'm using closer to 13 or 14 skills regularly. Fact is, a PT/VG really only needs to use about 4 skills (IM, FB, RS, RP) to deal a considerable amount of sustainable damage that most other classes cannot match using their entire arsenal of skills.

 

I know you guys sense the nerfs on the horizon and want to avoid them, but denying what is blatantly obvious to even novice SWTOR players just makes you look like the ones who don't know what they're talking about.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Legendari

[Twor]

Thanks for your insight and insults wise Powertech/Vanguard players, but last time I checked, being on fire from Incendiary Missile + Flame Burst spam for 100% of an encounter with a pyro-spec PT/VG causes ELEMENTAL damage. Sure, it may not be bursting as hard as your leet railshot and TD combos, but it adds up nonetheless. It also ignores armor rating and cannot be shielded (for you real "baddies" who don't know how your own classes work). It is incredibly easy to apply the burns and keep them applied at all times, which opens the door for the rest of the PT/VGs damage.

 

Also, no idea how you can think no class uses more than 5-6 keys in an average 1v1 (not that this game should be balanced around 1v1 anyway). In any given fight, I'm using closer to 13 or 14 skills regularly. Fact is, a PT/VG really only needs to use about 4 skills (IM, FB, RS, RP) to deal a considerable amount of sustainable damage that most other classes cannot match using their entire arsenal of skills.

 

I know you guys sense the nerfs on the horizon and want to avoid them, but denying what is blatantly obvious to even novice SWTOR players just makes you look like the ones who don't know what they're talking about.

 

Please... yes we do elemental damage on the abilities you mentioned. But even you have to know that we kill you with the abilities I mentioned and that those abilities make up the most of what everyone is complaining about- the burst.

 

Thus what you said has no relevance and your sarcasm to cover up failed as what you said is again just nonsense.

You also forgot TD (again the 2nd most important part of our burst...) and TO (that is always used when its off CD before the IM as IM costs 1/4 of our ressources).

If the baddies just could admit they are wrong instead of trying to cover it up with even more nonsense...

 

But well, an assasin who has trouble with Pyros- kind of obvious.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Twor

[TheronFett]

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ...blah blah blah...QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

 

I bet you thought your Assassin was a tank in his little light armored skirt, didn't ya? Probably standing there going toe to toe with Pyro/Assault specs and letting the tears rain down when you catch on fire and wondering why you can't beat them. Truth is, Assassins are my favorite meal. 90% of you run around in circles like you're the Tasmanian Devil on crack, it almost makes me sad to see so much effort gain so little.

 

And please, stop with the "I use moar keys" crap. We all know better. Your class isn't hard to play.

Edited July 14, 2012 by TheronFett

[Legendari]

Heh.. keep talking yourselves further into your hole guys... The insults are fun and all, but not demonstrating anything other than your lack of maturity. I'll be sure to dig this thread up in a month or two when you're all claiming to unsub. Edited July 14, 2012 by Legendari

[Minack]

This game has turned into Powertechs, Operatives and Marauders online. Glad my sub is down. Too much damage, zero balance. Edited July 15, 2012 by Minack

[thefishdude]

I took my assassin nerf in stride, because these things happen. However, given the number of ppl playing PT/Vand right now, when the nerf bat does fall (and don't kid yourself, because it will), the cry out from that community will be deafening.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

p.s. it'll also be prime hunting grounds for trolls too

Edited July 14, 2012 by thefishdude

[iphobia]

This game has turned into Powertechs, Operatives and Marauders online. Glad my sub is down. Too much damage, zero balance.

 

^ Sad that I have to agree with that, thanks to BW.

Edited July 15, 2012 by iphobia

[TheronFett]

Heh.. keep talking yourselves further into your hole guys... The insults are fun and all, but not demonstrating anything other than your lack of maturity. I'll be sure to dig this thread up in a month or two when you're all claiming to unsub.

 

All that really gets demonstrated in these threads is that people can't play their own class to it's strengths, so they whine about others. As for me personally, I prefer my Guardian over my PT and VG. Even as a tank build I have zero problems taking them out. You guys just need the spend more time learning and exploiting their weaknesses instead of crying on the forums for nerfs all day.

 

I'll still be here in a month or two. Even six. That's the beauty of being right.

Edited July 15, 2012 by TheronFett