I was about to post this same exact argument, so thanks for saving me the time Maybe we can get a "Fix Bolster" item added to the Cartel Market.

You must have a lot of free time on your hands with the new server and all. At least you have Dedrayge to keep you company while you guys are cheering from the sidelines

So far, it seems like we've had the best luck fielding teams on Wednesdays and Sundays, but I think it also works well for there to be scheduled nights where the whole server knows that people are queuing up. We should try to have at least a couple nights per week where everyone knows there are going to be teams running. Ranked is the most fun when there is some variety in the teams you play and I've counted at least 10 or 11 teams so far that have queued in the last week, so things are looking good.

I think he's talking about Cielo being the ringer on BMU's team (correct me if I'm wrong guys) We only played you guys three times on Wednesday, were we your only two losses that night? Also, good games to everyone tonight, it was nice to see six teams running (that I know of).

We'll see about doing some more ranked this weekend and next week. I believe we also have a couple people who raid on Tuesdays, though the majority of us don't do any PvE at all.

Apparently, mods are going to ninja edit this thread with no real consistency (I believe an entire page disappeared already), so it doesn't look like we're going to have much of a discussion here. I'll leave it at this: POT5 players: Good luck with your transfer and enjoy your new server. Your forum is this way. Shadowlands players: We have the opportunity to build a better, more competitive PvP community than we previously had. If you're looking to stay here for the long haul, take advantage of this opportunity. Ignore the people who are all bent out of shape because the server didn't go down in flames the moment they transferred off of it. We all know what the problems were before and we CAN avoid going down that road again. The activity over the last couple of days is proof that there is more than enough interest to make it work.

Hey, weren't you supposed to be leaving your sorc around to torment us?

We had fun and there were some really good games tonight. I think this server can still have a healthy and competitive rated community and the games tonight proved that. I know there are a number of other guilds who would likely queue up, in addition to the 4-5 that played tonight, so I think we have more than enough teams to keep it interesting. As for all of this happening a day after transfers, I think people who have decided to stay on the server know that there are still some players who are on the fence, and that it's a time-sensitive issue. It is in the best interest of anyone sticking around to put some effort into improving the PvP community here so that those people realize that transferring is not the only option they have, despite what the vocal minority says.

We'll be looking at doing rated more regularly, in an effort to help keep PvP active on this server until 2.4 comes out. This server still has plenty of PvPers on it and I think people should take advantage of the opportunity to queue and practice with their teams. All I would suggest is that if one or two guilds do emerge as the dominant teams, that they don't go out of their way to farm everyone else. We all know that the matchmaking system for rated is completely useless and will pair up any two teams that queue, regardless of skill difference. Until Bioware improves it, or does something to drastically increase the ranked pool, the players are going to have to take some responsibility to ensure that the system isn't being abused. As for all the people chiming in from POT5... I think you guys are on the wrong boards. Embrace your decisions to leave and accept the fact that life for everyone else is going to go on just fine without you.

Still around, just not playing all night every night (good way to burn out when there's really nothing new going on). I know a number of people who have unsubbed as a result of a lack of new PvP content, broken bolster fiasco, etc.. I think we'll see people returning for 2.4 if Bioware throws us something worthwhile. If not, I expect those disappearances to become permanent. Also, we have no plans to transfer to POT5.

I've seen plenty of motivation to do ranked on this server, and back on CR. Unfortunately, it's far too easy for one or two teams to run everyone out of the ranked queue. The system is broken and it's still going to be broken on another server. The competitive aspect is only going to take it so far. People also need gear to be competitive and rated has never been an efficient way to gear up. As a result, most guilds just keeps doing normal WZs because the queues are more consistent and they don't have to worry about playing a team of eight seasoned and fully geared players who are going to three-cap and spawn camp them repeatedly. For teams that can compete under these circumstances, it's still a huge waste of time and effort just to play the same team or two over and over. There should be more to rated warzones than simply being a place for a handful of top-tier teams to slap each other around with their e-peens. This is something that some people will clearly never understand. It should be accessible to any guild that wants to participate and people who are under-geared or lacking skill and experience should be playing people on their own level so they can get that experience, improve, and eventually work their way up to playing more difficult opponents. Otherwise, you end up with a small, stagnant pool of teams queuing for rated that will eventually absorb one another, burn out, or simply get bored go back to normal WZs. There are plenty of things that Bioware could do that would drastically increase the pool of players participating in rated warzones. Rated dailies, rated group finder, better rewards, cross-server matchmaking, etc.. The effort they have put into it so far has been absolutely pathetic. Transfers are not the answer, only a temporary band-aid on a much larger problem. As for Wanted queuing rated again, it will happen... we've been around since the origin servers and won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Rated is not our sole purpose in life right now (and let's face it, Bioware screwed up competitive PvP pretty well with 2.0 and bolster anyway, so it's hard to take it that seriously), but I'd still like to get some games in while we wait to see if the 2.4 update revives the game or crashes and burns. I'm actually quite interested to see what the server is like after the initial wave of transfers. I think we could possibly have a better rated community than was previously possible. I know I can't be the only one thinking that.

That game does look pretty sweet, I'll definitely be keeping an eye on that one.

This is the company everyone is so anxious to hand more money to. If you're going to keep enabling them to crap on their customers, don't be surprised when they continue to do it repeatedly... I doubt the delay is going to be three months, though, since there are cartel coins involved (unlike ranked queues). Frankly, we'd all be better off if the majority of people resist the urge to transfer and instead demand Bioware add PvP content that encourages participation and competition, or at least wait until 2.4 is released. There's a reason why they are sandbagging on the PvP changes that will supposedly bring "significant improvement of queue times for ranked Warzones." It's because they know a bunch of people will drop money on character transfers if they make those available first. Economically, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for them to eliminate somebody's reason for transferring and then release transfers. Don't be sheep

Well, I'm glad you were so amused. Are these the kinds of humorous observations that you and red shirt guy sit around joking about in your free time? Hate to break it to you, though, I couldn't care less about exploiting the broken bolster system to gain an advantage on people. That's why I'm running in full Partisan/Conquerer gear, instead of crafting myself a set of bolster-powered PvE gear so I can pretend my stat advantage over the average player is actually skill. I have power crystals in my gear because Bioware decided to turn my previous full PvP set into PvE gear and my expertise crystals suddenly took away ~150 expertise instead of adding any. I just haven't bothered to swap them out since then and probably won't until bolster is fixed. I don't need to abuse the system and I don't try to. I'm doing just fine with what I have. Kudos on the imaginative comparison, though, I found it "amusing."

Feel free to quote this imaginary proclamation. There's no denying that Demelain is a great player (one that ID flat-out turned away before he joined Wanted on CR, btw). We sure have come a long way since the days when he was the one being ganged up on for speaking his mind about ID on the forums. Say what you want, but I'm not on here repeatedly trash talking my entire server and sticking their faces in the mud every opportunity I get. I play the game with integrity and anyone that has been in a WZ with me knows I give 110% every game. We don't poach from other guilds and hamstring our competition, or abuse broken game mechanics to gain an edge in matches, or butter up lesser skilled guilds so we can farm them for commendations and rating (one of the main reasons I stopped running rated with ID a LONG time ago). Nothing YOU can say will change any of those facts. If you want an example of petty jabs and sad behavior, you don't have to look far. I would suggest coming up with some new material, though, as the ranked queue bit is kinda wore out and Somnax is starting to resort to forming insults around my choice of color crystals (no, seriously... he went there).

I guess we should craft ourselves up some PVE gear so we can be taken seriously again

The majority of my 200+ ranked games were run with my own guild and, in fact, many of those games were against ID. If you want to talk about being carried by other guilds, though, I guess we can take a look at ID's roster, which is littered with players poached from other well-known PvP guilds. Heck, the best player you have right now came from us and is apparently so crucial to your lineup that he gets his own bat-signal-esque forum thread to summon him for rated

Our guild is staying, though we may lose one person (somebody you already listed)... Just have to see how things play out. I've talked to people from a couple other imp PvP guilds and most have a "wait and see" attitude or just flat out aren't interested in moving.

Guess some people are going to fit right in! Enjoy that

Even if transfers were free, I wouldn't jump through the hoops of character moves, name changes, pressuring guildmates into going with me (and losing the ones who didn't), etc., just so EA & Bioware can continue to crank out cartel garbage instead of supporting their game with proper content, features, and fixes. Most of the friends and guildmates I've talked to feel the same way. I still like the game and will keep playing and having fun, but my BS meter is already capped out

I don't know, I think this server has plenty of solid PvPers. One of the problems, however, is that so many have continued to seek "competition" by joining teams that are already winning without their help. If that's what competition is, then we should all just join the same guild and sit on the fleet laughing about how we are the best and have nobody to play against. As for POT5's rated activity, I have no doubt that it's higher than what we currently have, but it's not going to be sustainable without additional work being put into PvP. I see comments in POT5's forums regarding rated activity which look strikingly similar to what we used to have in our own forums before things completely dried up here. Given a little more time, they'd probably finish burning through their larger PvP population (which is partially made up of people who already re-rolled there in search of greener pastures) and end up right in the same spot as us.

This has nothing to do with rolling on a PvE server vs. a PvP server... This is about Bioware neglecting PvP and its player base in general, and then expecting those players to jump through hoop after hoop to enjoy what little PvP content there is. There's no way that anyone who has been subscribed since launch can honestly say that Bioware has put any significant amount of effort into PvP, regardless of what kind of server they originally rolled on. I'll wait and see what happens, but I'm not buying into the mindset that anyone who enjoys PvP should immediately transfer to another server. That sounds more like propaganda from people who have already decided to jump ship and are seeking social validation. We don't even know all the details yet on cost, limitations, potential server caps, legacy ramifications (ie: loss of buffs or other legacy perks), etc. Besides, if every PvPer piled onto one server, it would be a lag fest full of trolls and objective-ignoring try-hards, which doesn't really sound appealing at all to me. The only thing more frustrating than getting a team of bad players is getting one full of good players who still manage to throw the game because they are more concerned with their numbers on the scoreboard. I can definitely understand your concern, but I don't think it's going to be anywhere near that bad. Some of the best PvPers I know, including some in our own guild, either transitioned over from end-game PvE or still have a strong interest in both PvE and PvP content. I wouldn't be surprised if there was actually more rated activity on the server after transfers, once many guilds have a chance to actually grow and improve in the absence of people who would normally farm them mercilessly and/or poach their top players. Regardless, the larger issue of lack of accessibility and incentive to do rated PvP will still exist. If and when they get around to properly fixing that, it's not going to matter what server people are playing on. For now, though, I think it's smarter to wait and see how things unfold and reassess the situation after the initial server transfer dust settles.

Not really interested in jumping through more hoops to fix Bioware's problem for them. They've shown time and time again that they are more than willing to put the burden on the customers if they are willing to be taken advantage of. IMO, if they want PvP to thrive in this game, they will have no choice to but to eventually add cross-server and focus more on new PvP content. Anything else is just a temporary band-aid. Regardless, I'm sure there will be plenty of people who jump ship right away, but there will be many who stay as well (and probably a number of people who will also transfer TO this server and not away from it). Overall, though, this is just the same thing Bioware did with the first round of server transfers... let people suffer until they are desperate enough to tolerate any inconvenience and then force them to choose that inconvenience for themselves. They've just decided they can make some extra money this time around. Personally, I'll be waiting to see how things unfold and what Bioware does next with PvP. Hopping to another server isn't going to solve the bigger issue.

I'm thinking that a mass exodus to another server will be kind of pointless if they don't give a little more attention to PvP in general. If they fix PvP correctly, transfers won't be needed anyway. Otherwise, It will just be the same thing that has happened every server merge. There will be a lot of activity at first, then weaker guilds will start falling apart and getting absorbed by stronger ones. Some people will get bored and go play other games. Eventually, after the dust settles, everyone who's left will be sitting around waiting for the next magical fix for rated to come along again. The real solution to the problem is cross-server PvP, as well as making rated a LOT more accessible and rewarding for all players. The pool of players participating in ranked needs to grow exponentially, but not just in the top percentile. There need to be even more teams running in the lower brackets, and those teams need to actually be playing each other, rather than being farmed by teams far above their skill level. This would actually promote more rated activity and these teams would then have the opportunity to improve and work their way up in the ratings, which is how the matchmaking system is supposed to work. Also, I'd imagine they're going to be charging around $20 or more per character transfer, which is probably going to be a deterrent for some people (in addition to losing their character name, friends, guild, etc.) Personally, I don't think it's our job to fix, and pay for, Bioware's problem and I'd be really hesitant to commit to a move with the current state of PvP.

I find it really hard to believe that we all just suddenly have the bad luck of getting the same WZ 2-3 times in a row, multiple times per night, and that it's consistent and noticeable enough to fuel this discussion. The numbers might be balancing out on a large scale to look like each WZ is appearing an equal number of times (and they very well may be), but something is going on that is causing people to get the same one back to back a lot more often than before 2.0. I've been playing the game since launch and haven't seen this frequent of repetition since same-faction Huttball games.