Its time to nerf Vanguards and Powertechs

[Rogean]

I have photos of a shadow doing 600k pre 1.2.

 

One class doing decent damage two major patches ago is not a counter argument to a class consistently putting high damage in every warzone. Not even relevant. Every class has the potential to do high damage in a warzone given the right circumstances, the problem is Pyrotechs are doing this consistently.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Rogean

[Oscibi]

Seriously, its time to bring this class into line. They are just ridiculous dps and survivability, pulling 400k in sub 50 wz's and 700k upwards geared in an average game at level 50 pvp. Every man and their dogs are rolling them and the place is swarming with them everywhere you look.

 

Please balance this class. QQ over.

 

Im guessing you play sent/mara and Are trying to push the "nerf sent/mara" to nerf "pt/vg"

[Orangerascal]

It's almost as if you suggest that a DPS... should be squishy? You're clearly somewhat beyond me, so please lay out this hypothesis. Do you put forth that in an MMO, a DPS should be able to provide DPS and not be able to tank, and a tank be able to tank but not to DPS?

 

Please lay down the specifics of your plan so that, collectively, we might muse over the more intricate details.

 

/Sarcasm off

 

You want squishy, play a sage DPS. Powertechs have heavy armour and a -25% dmg reduction shield that can have its cooldown constantly reduced. They are one of the more durable DPSers.

 

Err .... read my sig ...

 

Seriously stop qqing ... it's embarassing. Heavy armor does not mean much with all the amour pen in the game currently.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Orangerascal

[KBSIP]

One class doing decent damage two major patches ago is not a counter argument to a class consistently putting high damage in every warzone. Not even relevant. Every class has the potential to do high damage in a warzone given the right circumstances, the problem is Pyrotechs are doing this consistently.

 

wait a second, we're complaining about warzone scoreboard damage? sorcerors can top 1mil damage, nerf. lets forget they do that by spreading DoT's, just like many pyros can inflat their numbers by spreading DoT's when they know they're going to die.

[TheGreatFrosty]

gunslingers have roots, a group defensive cooldown, good ranged burst, a full repertoire of 30 meter attacks, an AOE 8 second mez, a melee range stun, the best area denial AOE in the game (shared with scoundrels), cover mechanics and entrench giving them 20 second CC and physics immunity every minute, a knockback with root attatched, an armor debuff... need I go on?

 

Don't you guys get a root slow automatically attached to your main move? Don't you guys get one of the only AOE stuns in the game? No I don't mean AOE CC, like Flashbang, I mean an AOE stun?

 

Don't you have 100% mobility when a GS certainly does not? Don't you have over 90% armour penetration on your main move, literally removing the effectiveness of tanks? Don't you have the ability to reduce the cooldown of your defences, which is one of the best in the game? The ability to reset the cooldown of your main attack (equal in damage to Aimed Shot without the activation or the need to be still) every 6 seconds?

 

Pyro PT are hilariously misguided. Just nerf the class already and let these guys choose between a class that actually requires more than 3 buttons to play, or simply quit.

[Zorcha]

wait a second, we're complaining about warzone scoreboard damage? sorcerors can top 1mil damage, nerf. lets forget they do that by spreading DoT's, just like many pyros can inflat their numbers by spreading DoT's when they know they're going to die.

 

So both can spread dots thats cool, now can sorcs hit 30k hp in 6 globals?

[Oscibi]

One class doing decent damage two major patches ago is not a counter argument to a class consistently putting high damage in every warzone. Not even relevant. Every class has the potential to do high damage in a warzone given the right circumstances, the problem is Pyrotechs are doing this consistently.

 

Some are, Some very geared and skilled players do. but basing your "nerf xxxx" on overall damage in a warzone That has about 600 variables from gear/skill/classes etc etc Is do far beyond stupid it comes back and becomes stupid again.

 

My full WH vanguard got smashed by a mara in a wz I didnt even get him past half. But did i come here and go OMG he killed me nerf nerf nerf. no.

 

Just learn to play

[Twor]

So both can spread dots thats cool, now can sorcs hit 30k hp in 6 globals?

 

How can my apple taste like an orange? Burst class... sustained dps/cc class... Learn the difference.

 

Or complain why a sorc doesn't have stealth maybe...

 

30k already huh. There is still room for more! Hopefully in your next post its closer to 100.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Twor

[KBSIP]

Don't you guys get a root slow automatically attached to your main move? Don't you guys get one of the only AOE stuns in the game? No I don't mean AOE CC, like Flashbang, I mean an AOE stun?

 

Don't you have 100% mobility when a GS certainly does not? Don't you have over 90% armour penetration on your main move, literally removing the effectiveness of tanks? Don't you have the ability to reduce the cooldown of your defences, which is one of the best in the game? The ability to reset the cooldown of your main attack (equal in damage to Aimed Shot without the activation or the need to be still) every 6 seconds?

 

Pyro PT are hilariously misguided. Just nerf the class already and let these guys choose between a class that actually requires more than 3 buttons to play, or simply quit.

 

isn't our AOE stun strictly melee range, and lasts 2 seconds? our snare also lasts 2 seconds, barely over the GCD, so if we're "perma" snaring we have to spam our snare ability which will leave us overheated.

 

don't you have to not care about mobility since you DO have two snares along with teammates to make sure you're never even touched? isn't your ambush dealing 50% more damage than RS on average for crits (up to 7-8k on squishy targets whereas its QQ materiel if railshot tops 5k?), can't you apply an armor debuff on the target that effects ALL incoming damage on the target, essentially buffing group damage on the target by up to 10% depending on whether the target is a tank? can't you operate without moving because you can engage at maximum range and cannot be leapt to, and can use a short CD to also make you CC immune which prevents the CC-leap/pull combo?

 

seriously, if you're having trouble with your GS/Sniper in rated either your team sucks or you need to L2P.

[KBSIP]

So both can spread dots thats cool, now can sorcs hit 30k hp in 6 globals?

 

still figuring out where this perfect proc rate comes from, let me know so I can get railshots every other GCD. oh, 6 GCDs? you're thinking of 1.1, where we had infinite procs, that's not possible now. they already nerfed pyros genius.

Edited June 28, 2012 by KBSIP

[Oscibi]

So both can spread dots thats cool, now can sorcs hit 30k hp in 6 globals?

 

 

Show me the combat log that says that.

[kjpwv]

The reason a PT/Vanguard is desirable to a team is the burst, take that away, and you are left with nothing. When under coordinated focus fire we drop like a fly, and don't have oh sh** abilities like the marauder. Was to the point in one rated voidstar last night i was terrified to leave the pillar, every time I did even with my pro heals I was toast (won the game but the other team defiantly took me out of the equation for the most part).

 

Moral of the story, powertechs are fine. if you get insta jibbed by one, get better gear and/or use your cool downs.

[TheronFett]

Don't you guys get a root slow automatically attached to your main move? Don't you guys get one of the only AOE stuns in the game? No I don't mean AOE CC, like Flashbang, I mean an AOE stun?

 

Don't you have 100% mobility when a GS certainly does not? Don't you have over 90% armour penetration on your main move, literally removing the effectiveness of tanks? Don't you have the ability to reduce the cooldown of your defences, which is one of the best in the game? The ability to reset the cooldown of your main attack (equal in damage to Aimed Shot without the activation or the need to be still) every 6 seconds?

 

Pyro PT are hilariously misguided. Just nerf the class already and let these guys choose between a class that actually requires more than 3 buttons to play, or simply quit.

 

Ya got "main move" in there a few times, man. Apparently our "main attack" is:

• An auto-crit for 50k
  
• 117% armor pen
  
• AoE stun
  
• Applies a DoT that last through your next 5 warzones
  
• Pimpslaps your mom so hard she falls out of her chair
  

 

I love meeting whiners like this guy in a match. They all melt like buttah, and you just -know- that as soon as they can, they are coming to the boards to cry a little bit.

[Twor]

Don't you guys get a root slow automatically attached to your main move? Don't you guys get one of the only AOE stuns in the game? No I don't mean AOE CC, like Flashbang, I mean an AOE stun?

 

Don't you have 100% mobility when a GS certainly does not? Don't you have over 90% armour penetration on your main move, literally removing the effectiveness of tanks? Don't you have the ability to reduce the cooldown of your defences, which is one of the best in the game? The ability to reset the cooldown of your main attack (equal in damage to Aimed Shot without the activation or the need to be still) every 6 seconds?

 

Pyro PT are hilariously misguided. Just nerf the class already and let these guys choose between a class that actually requires more than 3 buttons to play, or simply quit.

 

Do you really think our defense ability is one of the best in the game? Have you forgotten to pick an advanced class at level 10 maybe? Thats the only explanation for what you are posting.

[TheGreatFrosty]

Ya got "main move" in there a few times, man. Apparently our "main attack" is:

• An auto-crit for 50k
  
• 117% armor pen
  
• AoE stun
  
• Applies a DoT that last through your next 5 warzones
  
• Pimpslaps your mom so hard she falls out of her chair
  

 

I love meeting whiners like this guy in a match. They all melt like buttah, and you just -know- that as soon as they can, they are coming to the boards to cry a little bit.

 

I never said any of that. But exaggeration, poor reading comprehension and hyperbole are useful features when trying to undermine another's argument, for the sake of defending some idiocy. I get it fella, don't worry.

 

There are two moves that I meant to refer to. One being Rail shot and the other being the flame one, with the slow attached. The rest of it I did not say did stun or anything else.

Edited June 28, 2012 by TheGreatFrosty

[TheGreatFrosty]

Do you really think our defense ability is one of the best in the game? Have you forgotten to pick an advanced class at level 10 maybe? Thats the only explanation for what you are posting.

 

Without talking about sentinel, name better ones.

[Varicite]

Without talking about sentinel, name better ones.

 

Force Shroud, both versions of Vanish, Mercenary Energy Shield, Invincible, Enraged Defense, Ballistic Shield....

 

...shall I continue?

[TheronFett]

Guys, please stop replying to this guy. He clearly is a bad, and has no idea what he's talking about. Probably just another keyboard turner who can't play his own class so he has to complain about others.

[CBRGhostRider]

Seriously, its time to bring this class into line. They are just ridiculous dps and survivability, pulling 400k in sub 50 wz's and 700k upwards geared in an average game at level 50 pvp. Every man and their dogs are rolling them and the place is swarming with them everywhere you look.

 

Please balance this class. QQ over.

 

Excellent burst dps... yes. Survivability? bwahahahaha Maybe you should actually play the class before you talk about survivability?

 

You want to *balance* this class? So if the damage is nerfed what do PTs get in return? I don't see any mention of that in your post. You sir, aren't interested in any *balance*. You want to make the class useless by taking away the burst dps from the dps trees in the class.

 

I'm sorry you got melted by a PT, next time cleanse the DoT. Or use your tech immunity cd if you have it. Or stun him and actually try hitting him, and see how fast he goes down.

[Siorac]

Force Shroud, both versions of Vanish, Mercenary Energy Shield, Invincible, Enraged Defense, Ballistic Shield....

 

...shall I continue?

 

Enraged Defense, lol. Minimal self-heal at the cost of a huge amount of resources. Only useful if you happen to be Vengeance specced; then it gives 20% damage reduction with whatever the Juggernaut equivalent of Commanding Awe is. Still eats up all the resources so you can't just hit it every 45 seconds.

 

Invincible is a TANK ability, you can't seriously suggest it has any place in a discussion about the defensive cooldowns of DPS classes. I know, it's easy to get confused considering Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage is actually better but it's still a tank ability.

 

Yeah, my bitter point is that DPS Guardians are just as "squishy" as Pyrotechs but without the huge damage. Or without the huge damage and insane defensive cooldowns of Marauders/Sentinels.

[DarthOvertone]

Seriously, its time to bring this class into line. They are just ridiculous dps and survivability, pulling 400k in sub 50 wz's and 700k upwards geared in an average game at level 50 pvp. Every man and their dogs are rolling them and the place is swarming with them everywhere you look.

 

I would be more inclined to give serious consideration to your QQ if you had some post 1.3 evidence (screenshots) to back your claims. I haven't seen a 700K DPS game from any class post 1.3 yet. Granted, my playtime has been limited the past couple days and I've only been in about 10 WZs, but I actually haven't seen anyone go over 400K since the Patch.

 

I mean, I don't doubt that it can happen on occasion (especially 400K which isn't that much tbh), but it's certainly not happening all the time. Some proof would be good. Until then, it's DPS classes doing good DPS. No nerf needed.

[Varicite]

Enraged Defense, lol. Minimal self-heal at the cost of a huge amount of resources. Only useful if you happen to be Vengeance specced; then it gives 20% damage reduction with whatever the Juggernaut equivalent of Commanding Awe is. Still eats up all the resources so you can't just hit it every 45 seconds.

 

Invincible is a TANK ability, you can't seriously suggest it has any place in a discussion about the defensive cooldowns of DPS classes. I know, it's easy to get confused considering Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage is actually better but it's still a tank ability.

 

Yeah, my bitter point is that DPS Guardians are just as "squishy" as Pyrotechs but without the huge damage. Or without the huge damage and insane defensive cooldowns of Marauders/Sentinels.

 

Rage is not hard to get for any Warrior class, period. Even at only 6 Rage, Enraged Defense outclasses Kolto Overload and it's on a 3 min cd. But yes, I was speaking of the Vengeance version that has damage reduction on it. Enraged Defense coupled w/ Endure Pain is pretty effing sweet, btw. Especially if you have medpacs. But you already knew all that.

 

The question I was answering doesn't take into account whose abilities. It simply said to name some better defensive cds, and I did that. It also explicity states not to take into account Marauder / Sentinel abilities, which are arguably the best defensive cds in the game and belong to a pure DPS. Not really sure why these abilities are being discounted.

 

Rage Juggs are the ones that have put up the highest WZ scoreboard damage screenshots, which a lot of people seem to be erroneously basing their opinion on.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Varicite

[Astarica]

So far as CDs go, Energy Shield is very good but it's at best in contention for the #5 spot in a 'top 5 CD' list. One of the most glaring weakness is that you cannot possibly miss when someone do it so you just try to get the PT to pop it early by applying early pressure and then ignore them while they're glowing for the next 12 seconds. It's ironic that Undying Rage which is almost certainly better than Energy Shield has a far less subtle graphic. I absolutely cannot tell for sure when it ends (I don't know the class enough to distinguish the 3 different shades of red they glow when using different CDs).

 

Note that even if you did the wrong thing by trying to DPS through an Energy Shield while the PT is at 100%, that's really not that different than just attacking a Marauder the whole time (Cloak of Pain), and at least you only have to do this for 12s instead of 30s.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Astarica

[Dissentus]

Ah right, someone got killed by a pyro/assault, took a look at the scoreboard and we get another beautiful thread like this.

 

At some other poster, you can break down the basic damage abilities used in PvP of any class to 5 or 6 skills. Comparing keybind amounts always ended poorly for those who thought pyros just use 5 or 6 buttons sry.

 

Something most people just don't want to have true.

 

Yes, because pyro/assault consistently doing hundred of thousands of more damage than everyone else is supposed to be normal because Bioware intended for this class to make everyone feel like a pro. Sure.

[mjohnsonfhk]

who cares about sub 50 pvp.... its not even relevant.

 

what are you guys, "king of the rats" ?

 

We are a very strong class. There is no denying that. We are also a class that provides virtually no utility other than our damage.

 

If you want to nerf our damage then we simply need more survivability. I think most powertechs would be in favor of that.