Mardalador Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Please forgive me for being clueless, but whenever I see people online saying, "I used to play (insert awesome mmo here), but then it went free to play, so... yeah," I just get curious as to why F2P isn't good. Edited June 19, 2012 by Mardalador Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Mostly because it draws in a bunch of trolls that do things in game just to make people upset (they don't have to pay, so why not?) and then there's the pay 2 win model where they put in stat boost items in the cash shop forcing people to buy them to stay competitive. Oh, and the fact that they completely strip the game to a bare-bones set up and then micro transaction you to death..... Did I mention the pop ups in game constantly pointing you to the cash shop? I... hate.... F2P..... Edited June 19, 2012 by Galbatorrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rouge Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Please forgive me for being clueless, but whenever I see people online saying, "I used to play (insert awesome mmo here), but then it went free to play, so... yeah," I just get curious as to why F2P isn't good. The reason I don't know why is because no one has ever told me. Cash shops for play to win, lack of commitment from those players that really do play the game for free, usually limited or no new content after going F2P, less and worse customer service. I wouldn't mind the game going B2P without subscriptions and some modest cash shop with cosmetical stuff in connection of regular paid expansions. I think that should be the future of MMOs, as the subscriber path seems to be at end and F2P can't deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moofanchu Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Trolls and micro-transactions are the 2 reasons I don't play F2P games. You think the community is bad now??? Wait until F2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnie Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 heh, I stopped playing LOTRO around the time it went F2P but it had nothing to do with the business model. I actually started playing again a year later and even got the latest expansion and still thought it was quite enjoyable - with a mature enough community. however, I've played games that were f2p right from the start, and these games are just horrible. I think the 'going f2p' is really not the issue - if done right (lotro is for most people not really 'f2p' as they don't grind the turbine points you need to actually unlock stuff, most still get a subscription) .... the issue is usually with games that were f2p to begin with, because these games tend to be 'p2w' (pay to win) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonoku Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 depends what kind of F2P if its pay to win then there is a problem. if its just cash shops buying cosmetics that do not give anyone a game advantage its fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgelling Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) 1) Trolls 2) Lack of development often follows 3) Bad public perception 4) Nickel and dimed features are introduced more and more 5) Changing business models mid-stream is a sign of enormous weakness, and if the development cycle didn't plan for frequent addition of expos and other pay-fors it's tough to just throw that in in a natural way Just compare a game like GW2, which is planned for F2P - they'll have their cash shop stuff from day 1 probably and will plan on releasing timely expansions to raise money for more development. Their entire development process is planned around a certain model. To switch a game that had been planned around subscriptions to that would cause all kinds of problems. How would it work? Is BW suddenly going to charge for an expo pack with Makeb after collecting subs for a year? Are they going to charge for end game gear? Vanity gear? Pets? How does it pay the bills? Can they really expect a huge spike in new unit sales if they go F2P to make up for lost sub revenue? Edited June 19, 2012 by jgelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabloDoom Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Let's not forget cheats, the game will be rife with them, they won't care, just create a new free account if caught. I certainly won't be playing, I just don't have the money to play free games. Edited June 19, 2012 by DiabloDoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TirGavin Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Mostly because it draws in a bunch of trolls that do things in game just to make people upset (they don't have to pay, so why not?) and then there's the pay 2 win model where they put in stat boost items in the cash shop forcing people to buy them to stay competitive. Oh, and the fact that they completely strip the game to a bare-bones set up and then micro transaction you to death..... Did I mention the pop ups in game constantly pointing you to the cash shop? I... hate.... F2P..... Pretty much this, OP. Pay2Play FTW. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the people on these forums asking for ToR to be F2P are people who are planning on leaving once their 6 months pre paid are up, and just want to get on so they can troll the players. What's left are mostly kids who can't convince their parents to pay for a monthly subscription. I play a little DCUO and DDO, but I don't take them seriously at all. Edited June 19, 2012 by TirGavin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazysam Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Mostly because it draws in a bunch of trolls that do things in game just to make people upset (they don't have to pay, so why not?) and then there's the pay 2 win model where they put in stat boost items in the cash shop forcing people to buy them to stay competitive. Oh, and the fact that they completely strip the game to a bare-bones set up and then micro transaction you to death..... Did I mention the pop ups in game constantly pointing you to the cash shop? I... hate.... F2P..... Yeah, f2p isnt real, its P2W! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaWaffle Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Because either it's not free, or you're not playing the full game. Microtransations my friend. They are the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grezgorz Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Please forgive me for being clueless, but whenever I see people online saying, "I used to play (insert awesome mmo here), but then it went free to play, so... yeah," I just get curious as to why F2P isn't good. The reason I don't know why is because no one has ever told me. I'm not saying I agree or disagree but my understanding of the argument against F2P models is: It's bad because it generally trends towards a 'pay to win' scenario, wherein all of the most powerful in-game advantages are offered for sale. This upsets the traditional in-game hierarchy because those who've invested the most time and effort into outfitting their character feel their efforts and accomplishments lose some prestige when those same rewards that they worked for by playing the game are offered to anyone willing to pay for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justandulas Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) The minute swtor goes f2p, I'm done. I've been the biggest fanboy and supporter of this game, but will drop it like a bad habit if it goes f2p. F2P MMO's are notorious for nickel and diming you. I will never support a F2P MMO. Edited June 19, 2012 by justandulas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Please forgive me for being clueless, but whenever I see people online saying, "I used to play (insert awesome mmo here), but then it went free to play, so... yeah," I just get curious as to why F2P isn't good. The reason I don't know why is because no one has ever told me. You can read this thread and find out all you want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 While the system is not inherently bad in theory, in implementation, it usually is. It's a lot like Communism in that. Except it goes out of its way to create disparity between people. So in that way, it's nothing like Communism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanxxx Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 The minute swtor goes f2p, I'm done. I've been the biggest fanboy and supporter of this game, but will drop it like a bad habit if it goes f2p. F2P MMO's are notorious for nickel and diming you I understand your opinion, but if people state that they love the game, story, gameplay whatever, that in itself doesn't go away if they change the subscription model. If you end up paying more, as many suggest in a F2P model, then it is still, as many say, cheap entertainment. F2P =|= P2W (in all cases) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cellanoid Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 People will have their own reason for hating Free To Play. Mine comes from Star Trek Online. As soon as this game went free to play, there was a content drought that lasted months. And any content that was made, went straight to the cash shop. When a game goes Free To Play, that tells me that either the developers stopped caring about their customers and just want to cash in, or there isn't enough developers on the payroll anymore. Neither of these are good options for SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mardalador Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 While the system is not inherently bad in theory, in implementation, it usually is. It's a lot like Communism in that. Except it goes out of its way to create disparity between people. So in that way, it's nothing like Communism. This made me laugh for ten seconds straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboro Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Please forgive me for being clueless, but whenever I see people online saying, "I used to play (insert awesome mmo here), but then it went free to play, so... yeah," I just get curious as to why F2P isn't good. The reason I don't know why is because no one has ever told me. I doubt your question is as innocent as it pretends to be but whatever, its a good question that is very hard to answer because of the complexity. There is a huge diversity of f2p games out there to which you can add the more recent "p2p turned f2p" variation and they are all very different and thats why its so hard to answer your question. The original f2p games were not free to play at all.....unless you were ok playing without storage space, without good equipment etc. The original f2p games ended up costing a lot more than the p2p games, people spent hundreds/thousands of dollars on the so-called f2p games. Some of these games allow cash-shop currency <--> in-game currency exchange, so people can sell real cash for in-game cash, in this variation of f2p game, some players can indeed play for free but at the expense of spending a lot of real time in boring grinding instead of fun playing, so in the end they do pay too, just not with money but with time. This kind of games are a breeding ground for greed and stupidity, and the main reason why f2p got such a bad rep. Runes of Magic is a notable exception, its a pure f2p game but its not based on a greed model unlike its asian counterparts and real money <--> game money exchanges are not allowed. Last but not least come the p2p turned f2p games, the so-called hybrids that offer a choice between f2p and subscription p2p. DDO and LotRo being the best examples of how this should be handled profesionally. EQ2 and soon to come Vanguard followed the excellent example set by DDO and offer very good options of either f2p or sub-based p2p. So not all f2p games are the same, some are based on greedily overcharging the player (Megaten being one of the best examples), others are online casinos in disguise (Perfect World and Ether Saga), others are offering a very decent and honorable pricing system (Runes of Magic), while others offer a choice between f2p and p2p model with enough freedom to chose the best of both worlds (DDO, LotRo, EQ2, AoC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justandulas Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I understand your opinion, but if people state that they love the game, story, gameplay whatever, that in itself doesn't go away if they change the subscription model. If you end up paying more, as many suggest in a F2P model, then it is still, as many say, cheap entertainment. F2P =|= P2W (in all cases) Content comes slower. Things like mounts, pets, lightsaber colors will become buyable. We will be nickel and dimed for everything with slower content cycles and weaker content. I will support SWTOR for years with a sub, but the minute they announce F2P i am out the door. years of waiting for the game, and I'm it's biggest fanboy but I abandon ship at the announcement of F2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mardalador Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 I doubt your question is as innocent as it pretends to be but whatever, its a good question that is very hard to answer because of the complexity. There is a huge diversity of f2p games out there to which you can add the more recent "p2p turned f2p" variation and they are all very different and thats why its so hard to answer your question. The original f2p games were not free to play at all.....unless you were ok playing without storage space, without good equipment etc. The original f2p games ended up costing a lot more than the p2p games, people spent hundreds/thousands of dollars on the so-called f2p games. Some of these games allow cash-shop currency <--> in-game currency exchange, so people can sell real cash for in-game cash, in this variation of f2p game, some players can indeed play for free but at the expense of spending a lot of real time in boring grinding instead of fun playing, so in the end they do pay too, just not with money but with time. This kind of games are a breeding ground for greed and stupidity, and the main reason why f2p got such a bad rep. Runes of Magic is a notable exception, its a pure f2p game but its not based on a greed model unlike its asian counterparts and real money <--> game money exchanges are not allowed. Last but not least come the p2p turned f2p games, the so-called hybrids that offer a choice between f2p and subscription p2p. DDO and LotRo being the best examples of how this should be handled profesionally. EQ2 and soon to come Vanguard followed the excellent example set by DDO and offer very good options of either f2p or sub-based p2p. So not all f2p games are the same, some are based on greedily overcharging the player (Megaten being one of the best examples), others are online casinos in disguise (Perfect World and Ether Saga), others are offering a very decent and honorable pricing system (Runes of Magic), while others offer a choice between f2p and p2p model with enough freedom to chose the best of both worlds (DDO, LotRo, EQ2, AoC). You're right haha it isn't as innocent as it sounded. The only answers I got before were extremely vague, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inokis Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Play City of Heroes since it went free to play. It has everything wrong with a free to play system that there can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 There are different ways to do Free to play, some that are really good and tend to be cheaper in the long run then paying for a sub, and some are done badly the tend to be more expensive in the long run then a sub. Some Free to play MMOs have great communities, even better then some sub ones, and some Free To play MMOs have horrible communities. There really is no one good answer for your question, just because there is way to many varieties out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboro Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 People will have their own reason for hating Free To Play. Mine comes from Star Trek Online. As soon as this game went free to play, there was a content drought that lasted months. And any content that was made, went straight to the cash shop. When a game goes Free To Play, that tells me that either the developers stopped caring about their customers and just want to cash in, or there isn't enough developers on the payroll anymore. Neither of these are good options for SWTOR. I can give you a counter example: DDO. After it went f2p there was a flood of new content developed and it was not "cash in" content, it was new developed content and lots of it and top quality too. Also you had the option to keep your sub and have access to everything. DDO was a revolutionary turning point in the evolution of f2p gaming. Star Trek online was bought by Perfect World Entertainment, they have a good game line-up and they take good care of their games (new content, expansions, updates etc) so i dont know what you complaining about.....can you tell me what new content has been added to SWTOR? If swtor was taken over by an f2p company that would be a good thing, nothing can be worse for this game than let it in the incompetent hands of Bioware, the clown company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Rammstein Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 If you want an example of why f2p is so horrible dl the lotro client and take a look at the turbine shop....it's basically a pay to win game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts