Same gender relationships clarifications?

[MusedMoose]

You did get a response asking about story, Moose, and even from a named figure (which I didn't) and an assurance that she would do her best to get more info. They have never said that for or about SGR content, specifically.

[snip]

I do find it odd that they have been careful that same-gender content never shows up on the Dev Tracker. Your story question did, because Allison's posts show there... but note that she clipped your post in reply to sidestep SGRs completely. I do think there is some odd strategizing here to minimize controversy, which could explain that. And I can see why. But it does make this thread feel like a leper colony and if that is not the impression they wish to give, they need to know that, and think about how to remedy it.

 

They say they read this frequently, but couldn't or wouldn't address my real question of why they won't talk to us. That's the issue Tenebram has, and it's worrisome to me as well. That is why I called the reply I got a "non-answer answer". Because it just said, "post there, discuss there, we read it, we'll give you information when we have it," when I was asking why they never have.

Actually, in my post in that thread (it's on page 6, if you're curious) I didn't ask about SGRs, just about story content. So there was no sidestepping, just Ms. Berryman cutting down my post to just show the question I asked without the reasons I was asking it.

 

As for the rest of it, I just don't know. I'm tired of not getting answers. And what this thread's become just depresses me. Bah. Enough from me for now.

[Tenebram]

I'm not Tenebram, but I think I see their reasoning as: 1.) We are only permitted to discuss SGRs here in this one thread (true). 2.) This thread has never received a Community Team or Dev Team reply other than to either repost the Sept. 2011 announcement or, more recently, simply to clean up problem posts - and those have been CommunitySupport - not Joveth or Courtney or Allison (true). 3.) Likewise, our Q&A questions were never answered in the Q&A (though I'd argue we got a thorough answer to many questions at the Guild Summit, and as a result of the Q&A campaign)..

 

This. The only time we've gotten a response from an actual person (not just a real life person but a person that has a name) was at the guild summit.. excluding the press release from prior to launch. The rest of the time it has been the anonymous CommunitySupport poster. That is what irks me.. all these other issues are getting answers from people where as we do not.

[Kioma]

As for the rest of it, I just don't know. I'm tired of not getting answers. And what this thread's become just depresses me. Bah. Enough from me for now.

 

Indeed. And fighting against the rising tide of cynicism and doomsaying seems to do little good now.

[Uluain]

Actually, in my post in that thread (it's on page 6, if you're curious) I didn't ask about SGRs, just about story content. So there was no sidestepping, just Ms. Berryman cutting down my post to just show the question I asked without the reasons I was asking it.

 

Yes, I looked back and saw that. I suppose I was registering your signature. Still, I think answering that post, of all of ours, was a deliberate choice - and a sidestepping of having an Dev Tracker post on same-gender content. They probably also tapped you because you are still able to be polite.

[MusedMoose]

Yes, I looked back and saw that. I suppose I was registering your signature. Still, I think answering that post, of all of ours, was a deliberate choice - and a sidestepping of having an Dev Tracker post on same-gender content. They probably also tapped you because you are still able to be polite.

Maybe. Or maybe they answered it because I was (I think) the first one asking just about story content, and they wanted to acknowledge that. I try not to read too much into these things.

 

The positive thing I'm taking from it is that she said she's going to try to get us more information. I still think it's safe to say that SGRs are part of the story content, so if we get any news about story content coming up this year, we can ask and/or wait to see if that content will include SGRs. As always, we just have to be patient.

[Abominant]

Wow, this topic has been around since beta and it's still going strong!

 

But do you guys honestly believe that same gender romance options is anywhere near the top of their priorities at the moment? With alot of the driving force in favor of adding SGR (the Doctors) all but gone, I'm more worried about romance options period, once the game goes free-to-play.

 

Do you believe that BioWare will still be able to pull off the fully-voiced story lines for future content? And I'm not talking about the stuff they have that's already finished, but the class stories and romance arcs that will need to be created for future expansions and additions to the game?

 

Will they stay committed to that forth-pillar that they so passionately sold the game on? Or will it be forgotten in the face of cash shops and a return to the standard MMO style of leveling where you click an NPC and read the quest text?

Edited August 16, 2012 by Abominant

[Kioma]

Will they stay committed to that forth-pillar that they so passionately sold the game on? Or will it be forgotten in the face of cash shops and a return to the standard MMO style of leveling where you click an NPC and read the quest text?

 

Who knows? Without any word from the developers we can't really say.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Kioma

[Kioma]

Here's some new information with regards to the ESRB...

 

A prior player who used to post here but no longer subscribes to SWTOR (and thus can't post to the forums) very maturely took it upon themselves - after reading this thread - to email the ESRB directly with a query about same-sex content.

 

Here's the ESRB's reply:

 

"Thank you for contacting the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB). We sincerely appreciate your taking the time to write.

 

 

 

The ESRB is a non-profit, self-regulatory body that assigns age and content ratings for video games and mobile apps so parents can make informed choices as to which are suitable for their children and family. As part of its self-regulatory role for the video game industry, the ESRB also enforces industry-adopted advertising guidelines and helps ensure responsible online privacy practices among companies participating in its Privacy Online program.

 

 

 

We understand that sexual themes have the potential to be of concern to consumers, which is why all such content must be disclosed during the rating process. In specific regard to your question, ESRB’s ratings criteria do not distinguish between heterosexual and same-sex content when it comes to addressing sexuality in games.

 

 

 

We hope this information is helpful, and thank you again for writing.

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

Entertainment Software Rating Board"

 

So that's one mystery solved!

[MusedMoose]

Here's some new information with regards to the ESRB...

 

A prior player who used to post here but no longer subscribes to SWTOR (and thus can't post to the forums) very maturely took it upon themselves - after reading this thread - to email the ESRB directly with a query about same-sex content.

 

Here's the ESRB's reply:

[snip for ESRB getting it right]

So that's one mystery solved!

Yay! Very good to know. Thanks for that.

[wainot-keel]

 

As for adding SGRs being a risk, who can say. Some people might quit because of it, some people might decide to check out the game because of it. Claiming that BioWare won't risk losing subscribers by adding SGRs is speculation, nothing more.

 

 

I remember months ago, on BSN, the most egregious homophobes were threatening and promising not to buy ME3 and stuff if Kaidan was turned bi to cater the gay agenda, blah, blah, blah....

Guess what. They bought the game. They're still playing the game and downloading content.... Why wouldn't they ? SGRs is optional content that it has no impact on them even if they claim it does.

 

Anyone can leave the game for whatever reason. But if you are enjoying the game, quitting the game and depriving yourself of a source of fun because there is optional content that others might play ? Well, it could happen I guess.... But how many really ?

[Kioma]

But how many really ?

 

More to the point, who cares? Let them leave. The number of people who might quit over SGRAs being put in won't be enough to significantly impact subscriber numbers. More people are quitting over lack of operations and PvP than people who'd quit because Corso likes boys.

[Uluain]

More to the point, who cares? Let them leave. The number of people who might quit over SGRAs being put in won't be enough to significantly impact subscriber numbers. More people are quitting over lack of operations and PvP than people who'd quit because Corso likes boys.

 

The flipside of this is to ask, "How many will come back?" I not infrequently take a good break from a game and come back fresh when the mood takes me. I've done so on SWTOR before, and may again. But if I do, be sure that SGRs would draw me back very quickly. I'm waiting for Corso to like boys.

[MusedMoose]

Okay, ladies and gents, found a little something today: there's an interview with Gabe Amatangelo over at Darth Hater. Most of it is about upcoming PvP and Operation content; I have to admit, I don't PvP much but Ancient Hypergates sounds like it could be really fun. Anyway, we got this little bit at the end:

 

Just a Flashpoint.

 

I can’t say anything specifically about that. The only things that I can talk about specifically are the Ancient Hypergates, Terror from Beyond, and the HK-51 on Belsavis. Also we talked about how we’re doing a whole new planet with a new level increase.

 

Makeb?

 

Makeb, yup. That’s going to be continuing a massive amount of story content. We’re really excited about that as well.

Call me crazy, but it looks like EVERYONE is on full non-disclosure mode, what with the "only things I can talk about specifically" thing. But! BUT! The fact that he said there's a "massive amount of story content" coming makes me exceedingly happy. Not only has story content not been forgotten, but since SGRs were said to be coming with story updates, well, there's a hope spot for us.

 

Time will tell, of course, but it's nice to get a little bit of possibly good news. Carry on.

[Uluain]

I think it is safe to rule out HK-51 as a romance companion. Even if it were, I'd be scared:

 

HK-51: "Target acquired. Initiating hostilities."

Me: "Nooooooooooo!"

 

 

But joking aside, this is good news. If indeed this thread has been followed, there should be an understanding that this content is important to some segment of the player community, and its absence is a source of disaffection. It would also be good to think BioWare wants to honor commitments made in good faith.

 

So yes, I am hopeful. Remember, they have left us with the Guild Summit as the last word on SGRs - and with nothing new, "coming some time this year" is still what we have reason to expect.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Uluain

[MusedMoose]

I think it is safe to rule out HK-51 as a romance companion. Even if it were, I'd be scared:

HK-51: "Target acquired. Initiating hostilities."

Me: "Nooooooooooo!"

 

That gets even scarier when you realize to HK-51, that's foreplay.

 

But joking aside, this is good news. If indeed this thread has been followed, there should be an understanding that this content is important to some segment of the player community, and its absence is a source of disaffection. It would also be good to think BioWare wants to honor commitments made in good faith.

 

So yes, I am hopeful. Remember, they have left us with the Guild Summit as the last word on SGRs - and with nothing new, "coming some time this year" is still what we have reason to expect.

Agreed. I'm certain the two aren't at all connected, but it's great to hear this after community rep Ms. Berryman's response to me about trying to get more information about upcoming story content. More than anything, it's good to hear one of the devs actively talking about it and seeming pretty excited. Also, we just got a bit of new footage of Makeb in the video they posted today, so hopefully that means it's getting ever closer to done.

 

And yeah, I'm still holding BW to their word about SGRs with new story content "this year". While I'm sure the switch to F2P threw one hell of a spanner into the works, which is probably why there's so much doubt about what's being added when, we've heard no word against their earlier promises. So here's to our continued hope, and to not needing to have a New Hope. ...what?

[Captain_Zone]

My question now is WHY would they be back in ND mode now????? Don't they realize that most of their customers are going to want and need info about upcoming changes???? Sounds like EA is going about "business as usual" again, to me. There is a reason they were voted the Worst Corporation in America, you know. lol

[Uluain]

My question now is WHY would they be back in ND mode now????? Don't they realize that most of their customers are going to want and need info about upcoming changes???? Sounds like EA is going about "business as usual" again, to me. There is a reason they were voted the Worst Corporation in America, you know. lol

 

They aren't, really. We are seeing teasers and hearing about the next upcoming content. They prefer to keep focus on the next big thing, and right now that's F2P, an Ops and a Warzone, with miscellaneous other things.

 

They are being mum about same-gender content. Until the year is out, we can only assume the last available comment is still accurate. If it is not, then it really behooves them to say so, but I feel if they do still want to retain what goodwill same-gender content might net them, then getting it in sooner rather than later is a better bet. It ought to have been in at launch - or the rest of the romantic content should have been withheld as well.

 

It would be nice if they could address this thread. We have assurances it is read frequently, but no evidence that is the case. The only answers we have gotten from the Developers (at the Guild Summit in April) were to questions asked in the now-defunct Q&A. A demonstration that this thread is at the attention of Developers would be reassuring, were that something the Community Team cared to achieve.

[Kemmer]

As much as I want same gender romance in SWTOR, I feel that by the time they actually add it, a lot of us on this thread will be playing other games. Guild Wars 2 has an entire species of sexually fluid beings, the Sylvari. One of the major quest lines features a male Sylvari requesting help for his beloved, who is also a guy. And really, it's no big deal. The world didn't implode in GW2's beta over this and people all over the world are still chomping at the bit to play the game.

[MusedMoose]

As much as I want same gender romance in SWTOR, I feel that by the time they actually add it, a lot of us on this thread will be playing other games. Guild Wars 2 has an entire species of sexually fluid beings, the Sylvari. One of the major quest lines features a male Sylvari requesting help for his beloved, who is also a guy. And really, it's no big deal. The world didn't implode in GW2's beta over this and people all over the world are still chomping at the bit to play the game.

That's possible. The thing is, though, there's a big difference between NPCs who are in same-sex relationships and playing a character who's in one with a companion. I do think that's really cool that GW2 has same-sex relationships as part of the game, it's great to see. But sadly, some people who would shrug that off would freak out just because they see a [Flirt] option when their PC is talking to someone of the same gender.

 

As for people playing other games, eh, that's kind of the nature of the beast. I haven't done a study or anything, but judging by comments people make across the internet, lots of people will play one MMO until another one they're interested in comes out, and switch between them from time to time. TOR going F2P will only help with that. But hey, at least anyone who wants to experience SGRs should be able to do so for free.

[justabloke]

so the upshot of 20 million posts on the subject is that we still don't have a date (same sex or otherwise :-)

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

don't worry guise, i'm sure bioware is going to address this soon. i mean, they promised it during the guild summit, amirite? they are an honourable company that respects its loyal customer base!

[Kioma]

don't worry guise, i'm sure bioware is going to address this soon. i mean, they promised it during the guild summit, amirite? they are an honourable company that respects its loyal customer base!

 

We'll see, certainly.

 

 

One of the major quest lines features a male Sylvari requesting help for his beloved, who is also a guy. And really, it's no big deal. The world didn't implode in GW2's beta over this and people all over the world are still chomping at the bit to play the game.

 

That's really the point, isn't it? There's no seriously big deal over it and it's not going to cause the world to suffer some mysterious moral prolapse.

 

Or, more accurately, there's no big deal - until someone makes it a big deal.

 

I understand the basic premise of not wanting to give away spoilers but this is well, well past that point. They don't need to tell us anything at all about who's going to be SGRA-available in order to drop in and confirm that it IS still on track, that it IS still coming, that they ARE still disregarding the lobbyists who're trying to block it.

 

Not putting it in at launch, that's just a Thing at this point. Why it wasn't included then is pretty much academic. Point is, it wasn't.

 

People jumping up and down about 'gays in space' and demanding it not be put in (in vain, we can assume), that made a deal about it.

 

Bioware's silence has amplified the deal being made about it. Amplified the issue, the problem, the seriousness, several dozen times over. If they would just say 'Yes it's still coming, no, we don't care what people trying to stop it cold have to say,' then the mountain could go back to being a molehill for the time being.

[MIkeBear]

As much as I want same gender romance in SWTOR, I feel that by the time they actually add it, a lot of us on this thread will be playing other games. Guild Wars 2 has an entire species of sexually fluid beings, the Sylvari. One of the major quest lines features a male Sylvari requesting help for his beloved, who is also a guy. And really, it's no big deal. The world didn't implode in GW2's beta over this and people all over the world are still chomping at the bit to play the game.

 

That's amazing! I had only made male human characters in the beta weekends, could you provide some detail around the m/m quest you mentioned? Are there any YouTube videos or articles about it?

 

As far as SWTOR, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed, but I'd agree with this post. Both my boyfriend and I are getting into The Secret World now, which doesn't have any sort of romance or companion system but which (apparently like Guild Wars 2) features canonical gay and lesbian NPCs and a fluid sense of sexual identity (e.g. the opening Dragon scene implies sexuality with a female even as a female player, and male and female Templars hit on anyone regardless of gender.) I'm hoping Bioware gives some sort of an update soon, as I'd really love to see them make good on their word.

[Uluain]

I'm hoping Bioware gives some sort of an update soon, as I'd really love to see them make good on their word.

 

The have never addressed this on the forums since launch - no, I don't count reviving a statement made last September and slapping it on the front of the post as addressing the issue. CommunitySupport alleges that they read this thread, but no one is willing to put a name to the statement. I would like to believe that the information we have -- not from last April as I had recalled it but actually last March -- is still accurate, but a lot has changed since then. We hear Story content has been delayed, but not for how long, nor what this means for same-gender content.

 

Honestly, for any LGBT people who are considering this game now on the basis of inclusiveness, I would steer them away from it even when it is free to play. As it stands, SWTOR is grossly heterosexist, which is an unforgivable failing in this day and age, and we have zero indication that anyone able to make such decisions sees any need to prioritize a fix for this.

 

I know, I know - doomsaying is depressing. I am not trying to be negative but to express the problem the game as it stands presents to some players which other current games do not. This is something that can be fixed, and should be fixed just as soon as is possible - not after "more important" content is addressed. To say so is to say that this content and those who care about it are unimportant.

 

Is that really the message BioWare wishes to convey? Does the Community Team wish to seem callous? Right now, that's what we're getting. And right now, that is in fact how the Community Team is presenting itself. Why?

 

Now, to give the benefit of the doubt, I don't really thin the Community Team wants to seem callous, or dismissive, or discriminatory. I imagine hearing that is how they are coming across is distressing. But it should be. And what I would hope that would mean is that these concerns are passed up the chain, but with context - an understanding of why this matters, and how BioWare's response is making matters much worse.

 

I don't know how far up the chain of decisions this concern can be passed. I really do think at this point it is in the best interest of the game to address this sooner rather than later. I really want to enjoy this game. I do. But this undercuts my enjoyment to such a great extent that I am torn between continuing or leaving. Knowing this content is not abandoned, nor those awaiting it unvalued, would help tip the balance in favor of the game. Matters continuing as they stand will tip it the other way.

 

It's 2012. A game of this kind shouldn't lack this content. That it does is unsettling. That we no longer know it will ever be added is discouraging. Please, BioWare, if you want us to think this thread is read, address this soon. Address this through a Community representative with a name, and address this here. We'll listen.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Uluain

[Chaac]

So up until now we've been riding on the guild summit where we were told that SGRA's would be coming with story content and that story content is coming this year...however in this interview from a few days ago with Matthew Bromberg, GM of Bioware Austin, he states that much of the focus is currently on group content and not on solo content, which I would assume that story would fall under, and that it is very expensive to do the cinematic with full voice overs meaning that story content will not be released anywhere near as often as other forms of content. Given that in other interviews and posts in the past few days we've repeatedly been informed that things will be coming every six weeks such as;

 

Week 1 - New Operation

Six Weeks Later - New Warzone

Six Weeks Later - New Companion

Six Weeks Later - New Race

ect

 

From the information we're being given across various forms of media and forums, it seems increasingly like the likelihood of new story coming this year is decreasing significantly. If that is the case I can't help but worry that SGRA's will equally be coming outside of this year (if at all /sigh) meaning we will have waited more than a year since launch. I know it would be rather stupid to ask if anyone else is worrying/wondering the same thing since I can't presumably be the only one but am interested in peoples opinions on whether the information we were given at the summit should be considered less valid lately?

 

Edit - A lot of the talk about content is around 13/14 minutes in, and the video is in English, not German.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Chaac