Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Uluain]

This is precisely why we require a considered, substantive update. If the Community Team has no information, it behooves them to get some. And it behooves those at the helm to make themselves aware of this issue and its seriousness.

[Zandilar]

Just bear in mind that it's all very well to make speculations based on what you're reading/hearing - but until Bioware actually comes out and tell us what's up, we're not going to know anything for sure.

 

I choose to believe that we will see more story this year, because that is the last thing Bioware said about it.

 

I will be terribly disappointed if it turns out I'm wrong, but I'll live with that.

 

(Oh yes, and it would look very good for Bioware if they were to give us some more information.)

Edited August 19, 2012 by Zandilar

[MusedMoose]

From the information we're being given across various forms of media and forums, it seems increasingly like the likelihood of new story coming this year is decreasing significantly. If that is the case I can't help but worry that SGRA's will equally be coming outside of this year (if at all /sigh) meaning we will have waited more than a year since launch. I know it would be rather stupid to ask if anyone else is worrying/wondering the same thing since I can't presumably be the only one but am interested in peoples opinions on whether the information we were given at the summit should be considered less valid lately?

I can understand that going F2P might have thrown a massive wrench into BW's content release plans. I mean, if they'd planned for releasing stuff in huge chunks every few months, and now they're going for smaller releases every six weeks, that's a serious schedule change. But the lack of news on story content worries me, as does the vast amount of "we can't talk about that" coming out of BW.

 

I mean, I've been looking into an upcoming MMO, WildStar. Been following it more closely over the past few weeks, ever since the F2P news dropped. And while the game's not even out yet, I've seen an exponential amount of greater communication from the people making WildStar than I ever saw from BW. The sheer amount they've talked about the fun-based philosophy behind the game, and how much they talk to their fans and include them in the conversations... well, it makes BW look pretty bad in comparison. The simple fact that they can go five months without even acknowledging SGRs despite how many times we've asked is starting to make me lose faith.

 

What's really sad is all this sort of has me considering going back to WoW, even though I know it'd just be for a while before I got sick of it again. But hey, if I can't get what I want from a game... Also, I kinda miss Blizzard's humor. This game takes itself so damn seriously...

[Uluain]

Moaning on the Forums is not getting us anywhere, and I think it's bringing people down. I'd like to suggest a change of strategy.

 

What if, on the anniversary of Stephen Reid's infamous Sept. announcement, we pick a server - preferably one with a high LGBT population - and stage some kind of wacky quasi protest, like an RP kiss-in?

 

If people ask, "Can't you do that in private?" that's when we explain "No, we can't - that content's not in yet."

 

Maybe I have been staring at the screen to long, but it seems to have possibilities to me.

[MusedMoose]

Moaning on the Forums is not getting us anywhere, and I think it's bringing people down.

Yeah... I apologize for my last post. I should know by now better than to post when I'm tired and grumpy. Sorry, y'all.

 

I'd like to suggest a change of strategy.

 

What if, on the anniversary of Stephen Reid's infamous Sept. announcement, we pick a server - preferably one with a high LGBT population - and stage some kind of wacky quasi protest, like an RP kiss-in?

 

If people ask, "Can't you do that in private?" that's when we explain "No, we can't - that content's not in yet."

 

Maybe I have been staring at the screen to long, but it seems to have possibilities to me.

If you can make this work, go for it - can't promise participation, but it might have merit. BioWare does something where they promote player-run activities, right?

[Uluain]

Yeah... I apologize for my last post. I should know by now better than to post when I'm tired and grumpy. Sorry, y'all.

 

That wasn't at you, Moose - any more than it was at me, or Kioma, or Zandilar or the rest of us. I am just saying "Let's try to approach this from another direction entirely. We all feel a bit frustrated here."

 

If you can make this work, go for it - can't promise participation, but it might have merit.

 

It will take organization and assistance. <Rough Trade> is the largest LGBT guild in the game. That might be a place to look for participants. I'd gladly level an alt on their server at least til I have a ship and can get, say, to Nar Shaddaa.

 

BioWare does something where they promote player-run activities, right?

 

If I thought for one second they'd promote this, it almost wouldn't need doing. But you have a point and they could still surprise me.

 

What does anyone else think?

[Chaac]

 

If I thought for one second they'd promote this, it almost wouldn't need doing. But you have a point and they could still surprise me.

 

What does anyone else think?

 

It has merit, what type of server would you chose to have it on though? I mean it seems it could have a higher impact on a PvP server but the impact there I would imagine would be less receptive than say on a RP server.

 

 

Just to add a bit more speculation to my previous post (as if it was lacking in it already, ha) this quote is from the transcript of the interview with Jeff Hickman, the executive producer for the game:

 

What (if anything) will subscribers have to pay for after F2P launches?

 

I wish I had a solid answer for you on that. We’re still in discussion about some of the larger content updates that we’re planning. Great example is the planet Makeb. We’ve talked about Makeb, we have a lot of plans around Makeb. I wish I could give you more details, but I can tell you that I think the playerbase is going to be really, really pleased. More story content. New and interesting things for the players to do. More systems and interesting functions in the game … I can’t go into a lot of detail, but around things like that … This is a pretty big piece (of content). It is probably all that I can say. It is definitely still for discussion whether we sell that to the subscriber or the subscriber gets that for free because it is a big beefy chunk of content.

 

Assuming story content does make it into the game this year, and that SGRA's do come with it, would them deciding to charge for Makeb, unlike what they originally said about it being free mean we would have to pay for SGRA's to come in? I know in the past the idea of paying for SGRA's has been tossed around and it's never been one I've been comfortable with so if they do come with Makeb I hope it doesn't end up requiring payment, even if the payment is Cartel coins.

[Kioma]

That wasn't at you, Moose - any more than it was at me, or Kioma, or Zandilar or the rest of us. I am just saying "Let's try to approach this from another direction entirely. We all feel a bit frustrated here."

 

<snerk>

[Zandilar]

We'd have to be careful with the LGBT kiss-in. We really don't want to be crashing servers, because all that will do is frustrate people not involved and give us a bad name.

 

And speaking of names... I don't know about you, but I'd be hesitant to align myself with a guild called <Rough Trade>. (And yes, I am aware there's some underlying bias or prejudice to my attitude... But I'm female, and neither rough nor trade - here's what wikipedia has to say about the term.)

[MusedMoose]

Assuming story content does make it into the game this year, and that SGRA's do come with it, would them deciding to charge for Makeb, unlike what they originally said about it being free mean we would have to pay for SGRA's to come in? I know in the past the idea of paying for SGRA's has been tossed around and it's never been one I've been comfortable with so if they do come with Makeb I hope it doesn't end up requiring payment, even if the payment is Cartel coins.

That's a little bit worrisome. Granted, I'm sure it would be possible to add SGRs into the game as free and still charge for Makeb. But I was under the impression that story content would always be free. Hrm. As always, we'll have to see what happens, but I still stand by my decision to quit the game and never look back if they charge for SGRs. That's just not right.

[Uluain]

Pay-to-gay would really be the last straw, I agree. Thing is, we don't know. And we can't know if BioWare won't talk to us. I am mildly optimistic for some sort of update within the next month or so - not of content, mind you, but of information - as in the past we have waited six months between updates, and we are nearly there again.

 

Who knows where it will happen this time. If it is on these forums, by a Community Team member with a name, I will be thunderstruck.

[Kioma]

If it is on these forums, by a Community Team member with a name, I will be thunderstruck.

 

YEA YEAH YEAH THUNDERST- sorry.

[JediElf]

Any word yet?

 

Anything?

 

Do we even have an ETA?

 

I guess not.

[losdia]

Any word yet?

 

Anything?

 

Do we even have an ETA?

 

I guess not.

 

Well, hypothetically if it is still coming "this year", and if they've released a schedule for content for fall release that doesn't include SGRA, we could logically assume a Winter 2012 ETA. That is of course assuming that story content isn't stuck in development hell while the story team focuses on creating more "legacy" content.

 

I haven't been playing much of TOR since about April (I've been waiting like a good little T-girl for SGR), but I felt like playing some this weekend and my mind was kind of blown that there haven't been any updates from the development team since the guild conference. That is a little bit insane even by the usual hyper-paranoid standards of the gaming industry.

 

My two cents on the pay-for-gay thing is that it doesn't sound likely. My reading is that they're just trying to move TOR to more of the industry standard "Freemium" model. Charging for non-MASSIVELY EPIC legacy story events would just be too crass. Of course, this is Bioware we're talking about, the very people who have been known to have NPCs in game pitch DLC to you. ...And there was that whole ME2 Liara thing... I guess it just depends of if people would pay for it. From the tone of this thread it doesn't sound like a lot of people would. Of course we're already paying for what will soon be "premium accounts", so maybe. I think the thing I'm most curious about is if there will be any additional new companions that have SGR content coming with them, and if they do wouldn't that make prioritizing HK (as much as I loved him in KoTOR) a bit of a massive snub to the people waiting for SGR?

[Tuscad]

Looks like a reincarnation of this thread is coming up shortly.

[Uluain]

Looks like a reincarnation of this thread is coming up shortly.

 

If we are permitted to have one, I will at this point take that as a positive sign.

[Tuscad]

If we are permitted to have one, I will at this point take that as a positive sign.

 

I think this is the 6th one that we are on right now, lucky 7?

[BumpBump]

The best point was made in the previous thread: Heterosexual romance was done at the start of the game. That means BioWare placed a greater emphasis on those players/characters that Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual players or characters. Now, they are placing more emphasis on giving those players more content than they are on providing the same level of content available to them now than to G/L/B players. No matter how you try to spin that, that's a fact that can only be fixed by changing the game, not by posting words on forums. Edited August 20, 2012 by BumpBump

[VOLTAGIO]

Well im gonna put this out there i am an acctual lesbian HUH SHOCKER and would like this feature added hmm i wonder if there would have been similar discussion on adding african americans had this game existed 50-60 years ago...

[Tatile]

Well im gonna put this out there i am an acctual lesbian HUH SHOCKER and would like this feature added hmm i wonder if there would have been similar discussion on adding african americans had this game existed 50-60 years ago...

 

Early incarnations of roleplay games such as Dungeons and Dragons had female characters starting off with stats such as -4 Strength. If anything this debate is comparable to not having a full range of human skin tones or female characters at launch and making them a "post launch feature". I believe that adding in SGRA's and LGB content generally in video games would be a good step towards addressing the boundaries of the binary gender system.

[rahadnak]

Hi there!, I've been out for some days and without internet and I was hoping to see some news on this topic from Gamescom, but... nothing. This is really disappointing and i think we have the right to consider this as a discriminatory situaton. Don''t get me wrong, I don't think bioware or EA are hostile to LGTB issues or homophobic companies, what I mean is, whatever the reasons that might be preventing them from implementing this in the game, given their undisguised oblivious attitude and their evasive answers to our questions, we have enough reasons to claim for justice and equality, just as we do in real life. And excuse me if i seem high-sounding or excessive, but remember I'm not a native speaker and I cant' measure with accurate exactitude the strength of my words, hahaha!! Edited August 20, 2012 by rahadnak

[JediElf]

All I love to have, at this point, is a little mention. Just a word, or a 'Hey guys we're still working on it! Hang in there!".

 

That's all. That would make me happy.

 

This game is already amazing, and when we finally get SGR it would make it one of the best MMOs ever made.

 

It would be, fantastic, to have more options for love and romance.

 

It would make this game complete.

 

[Uluain]

All I love to have, at this point, is a little mention. Just a word, or a 'Hey guys we're still working on it! Hang in there!".

 

That's all. That would make me happy.

 

You aren't the first to say so. Because I don't believe that the Community Team are heartless ogres, it seems likely that there is some sort of very strict non-disclosure agreement in place on this content. But we don't know. If that is the case, they may want to mention up the line that it is causing a great deal of consternation, and that an "It's still coming, really!" would go some way to assuaging that.

 

If the real answer is "Sorry, guys. Things got crazy here and we don't know when we'll get back to this at all," or, worst case, "Sorry guys, It's not going to happen," then we really should be told that's the case.

 

However, since this thread continues to be re-created when it's full and since CommunitySupport, when locking a thread I started asking not about the content but about the silence, said in effect, "We understand this is hard to be patient about, please do keep posting in the appropriate thread, it really is read frequently," I am supposing that they simply can't say anything about this content, but it is still on the way.

 

Since it is the most recent word we've received, however sparse, I'll repost that here in full:

Hello. We understand that you are very interested in hearing more information about this topic, but unfortunately, we have no new information to share at this time. We appreciate your constructive inquiry and will bring you more information as soon as it is available. In the meantime, we do ask that you discuss requests for more information on this topic in the existing thread (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=476215), which we do read frequently. Thank you for your understanding and patience.

 

That is a hell of a lot to have to infer from sadly indirect and limited information, but it seems to be all we're getting.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Uluain

[losdia]

There has been a lot of talk the past month or so on the major gaming blogs and forums about the issue of how game developers deal with giving out information to the public. It started when a couple of articles on Kotaku which had industry insiders explaining that to them the average gamer just won't stop asking questions about topics they feel they've already addressed, and how that creates a very "Us vs Them" antagonistic relationship between gamers and developers. Another article responded to those claims can basically be summarized as; Well if you'd ever answer any-freaking-thing you were asked you wouldn't have that problem, would you? Tycho from PA, and a few others, chimed in with the argument that the real problem is the tabloid nature of journalists covering gaming. Personally, I think there are fair points on all sides.

 

The thing about SGR in the context of all that, is that EA/BIoware doesn't act like they understand that is different issue from regular pesky gamer wish-list gripes. Gaming companies do not know how to deal with gay issues. There is a genuine history of the gaming industry as a bad actor towards the GLBT community. Until about five years ago they (taken has a collective whole rather than individual companies) could be argued to be complicit in the intense atmosphere of homophobia that exists among gamers. To this day at the first level customer support role there is a complete lack of training on how to deal with customers expressing pro-gay sentiment and an attitude that such issues are best swept under the rug. Even this year, on this board, the moderators were still known to be breaking out the "there are no gays in the Star War verse" line. To be fair, the context of that was that any homosexual relationships in a galaxy, far, far away are unrelated to present day earth issues of "gayness", but the language was stupidly inflammatory. Game companies, including EA, have a long standing history of concealing decisions about removing gay content. It was only something like two years ago that EA finally admired that The Sims 2 originally had a sexuality value assigned to characters, reflecting the shocking idea that people are born gay. A fact that has been known since around a week after the game came out. Bioware has the shining reputation for gay friendly games, less becuase of genuinely positive gay character existing in there games, but rather becuase the standard in games is so low that by having any gay characters present in a role other than the most offensive camp equivalent of minstrels can be seen as positive. In any other form of media Bioware's stable of gay characters would have been slammed by critics for portraying negative stereotypes. So, uh, yeah, It'd be just great if they'd quit acting like we were whiny kids asking for a new flashpoint and some pimpin' armor with like force flames n' stuff.

 

Having said that, even if the SGR content was ready I'm not sure I'd want them to release it right now. America is just too crazy with the election right now. When it does come out it will be news. There will be videos of Jedi boys kissing on CNN with people from the PTC and FVRC there to explain about how the "homosexual agenda" is further encroaching upon the traditional family by promoting the gay lifestyle to children. All the while PR representatives of EA will sit there looking blank as they've spent so many years as whipping boy apologists to the media watchdogs on issues of gratuitous violence in games that they have no idea how to come out as promoters of something positive. Then someone from the RNC will say something, then someone from the DNC will respond to them, and then everyone will go indiscriminately crazy. It'll be this whole thing. Seriously though, I do doubt we will hear anything new about SGR until the post-election political cool down.

[Kioma]

You make many good points and some I would contend but don't see much point. All in all I agree with you for the most part but this point I will indeed contest:

 

Having said that, even if the SGR content was ready I'm not sure I'd want them to release it right now. America is just too crazy with the election right now.

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, I would be decidedly annoyed - downright furious, in fact - if they didn't bring out SGRAs simply because America is in election-mode. I understand that America is the country in which this content is developed and based but one of the marvellous things about online gaming is the habit it has of bridging gaps between countries.

 

There's absolutely always some kind of election, political upheaval or social uproar going on somewhere in the world. So America is having an election. Big fat flying deal. There are other countries out there and for us to have to watch a seriously positive development in this game go down the drain or even get stalled because some big fat cats in the US of A have their panties in a twist...

 

Well, it's not a good thing. Let's put it that way.

 

If this goes ahead it should go ahead irrespective of the political climate in one country - or two countries, or twelve. If the country is in violent upheaval and there's riots in the streets, people being shot for any original thought at all or that kind of behaviour, okay - but America's not at that point.

 

In fact, I don't like the idea of politics coming into this at all. To me this truly isn't a social agenda of any kind. I want the feature in the game because I enjoy the game and would enjoy it more with this feature in. That it would send a tremendously good message about inclusion and also confirm that BW:A and EA actually do give a flying fig about the LGBT community is true, but that's not my own personal primary goal.