Same gender relationships clarifications?

[MusedMoose]

I'd like to add my support to this thread, and I hope Bioware keeps their word on this one.

 

Whether it's someone who wants their character to reflect themselves or someone who would prefer to follow Jorgan's romance story because they find him more interesting than Elara or, heck, even some kid who just wants to get his jollies watching a girly Bounty Hunter snog Mako. The option for gay romances offers so much to the folks who want to take advantage and takes away nothing at all from those who do not.

Welcome to the thread. Oddly enough, I think this is the first time I've seen someone point out the blatantly obvious - adding SGRs doesn't take away from anything. Since it's all story stuff, adding them wouldn't mean less time to work on the other stuff BioWare keeps bringing up as new content - flashpoints, operations, battlegrounds, and space combat. Another good point against the trolls, thanks.

 

As a veteran of MMO's, the thing that surprised me the most about SWTOR is how much I like my characters. To me they have personalities and are not just a collection of stats or gear. I'm lucky that I can play my characters as I picture them in my head including the romances which have been funny and sweet. I feel for the foks who don't get to fully play their character the way they want too. It's something that Bioware can and should address.

Yeah, that's something I think SW:TOR really did right. Since we have the dialogue options and the LS/DS choices, our characters can really be who we want them to be, for the most part. There's more to define who they are than which quest they do or don't take, or which faction they're in, or what race or class they are. The companions are a huge part of this - my Trooper would probably be a lot harder and more cynical if not for Elara's influence, and I know my Smuggler was well on his way to becoming a Republic-serving goody-goody before he met up with Akaavi.

 

It's no coincidence that the companions who are romance options had the most influence on how I developed my characters. The hope that all my characters get to romance who they want to is part of what keeps me playing.

[stuffystuffs]

Whether it's someone who wants their character to reflect themselves or someone who would prefer to follow Jorgan's romance story because they find him more interesting than Elara or, heck, even some kid who just wants to get his jollies watching a girly Bounty Hunter snog Mako. The option for gay romances offers so much to the folks who want to take advantage and takes away nothing at all from those who do not.

 

See this one understands.

[Kioma]

The option for gay romances offers so much to the folks who want to take advantage and takes away nothing at all from those who do not.

See this one understands.

 

Possibly, but there is indeed something it does change for people who will never use this option: It takes away part of the status quo, which they're used to having, so they perceive it as an 'attack'.

 

To which I say: tell David Gaider that.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Kioma

[Raiellyn]

I have to offer a bit of sympathy to the negative-spin this thread has been taking lately, as I share that concern, but I do think a lot of us need to take into perspective just how badly Bioware is doing at informing anyone about news, updates, or features. I mean, in the past two months, our entire knowledge-base of new content contains;

1) Free-to-play features.

2) HK-51 eventually.

 

Any other "easier" answers have been getting the exact same pat on the head that we got back in March, in that it is surely coming soon!

 

Just saying, it might be hasty to accuse Bioware of shelving this feature out of malice or ill will when pretty much across the board they've gone into bunker-mode on announcements. I mean, we still don't even have a vague ETA on things like chat bubbles or hood toggles after a year, and I'd hope SGRA's are a touch more complex than those features. So we might be in for a bit of a wait until Bioware finally gets back on the ball.

 

One thing's for sure, though. GamesCom is happening in a few days, and if we don't get substantial news, I'll personally just cut my losses and run. I'd love for them to announce a massive story-update with same-gender content coming this Fall, but I'd honestly just settle for HK-51 or Cathar to at least give me a reason to stick around any longer.

 

tl;dr, I don't think pestering Bioware will actually accomplish anything even if I do support doing so, judging from their current content-schedule.

[Kioma]

One thing's for sure, though. GamesCom is happening in a few days, and if we don't get substantial news, I'll personally just cut my losses and run.

 

I'm still enjoying it for other reasons (including playing with friends, and I'm slack when it comes to levelling characters so I still haven't seen any stories all the way through except Jedi Knight) so I'll stick around but no news about at least SOME stuff come GamesCoM will have me very despondent indeed.

[Tenebram]

Added another post to the "Message from the community manager" thread since it seems to be the only thread that Joveth will read.. this time asking why we can't ask anywhere but here.. maybe if we can at least get out of this little corner we might be able to get some actual pressure going.. but I'm not holding my breath.. just as easy to ignore a second question as it is the first.

[Tatile]

I've been sending him quite a few PM's and he's not answered those either.

 

Edit: I sent him the direct links to both of your posts. Wondering how long until he puts me on ignore.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Tatile

[Tenebram]

PM's I can understand to an extent since they are just one person and likely receiving hundreds at a time but it is their job and from the amount of information given out each day (which is considerably more than prior to this month) its hard to know what they are doing with the rest of the time. Having sent PM's a few days past you would think they would have gotten to them at this point

 

 

I found this amusing.. or rather I would if it wasn't so frustrating.. a response on the dev tracker:

 

We're glad to see you're enjoying the responses. We'll keep working to bring more - if you have questions or any issues, make sure to post a thread in the appropriate subforum. Obviously, we can't guarantee an answer to everything, but we're definitely working to get more responses out.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Tenebram

[Uluain]

PM's I can understand to an extent since they are just one person and likely receiving hundreds at a time but it is their job.

 

Joveth did replied to a tweet of mine. It didn't address my question, but he did reply:

 

@Joveth Why no discussion from the #SWTOR Community Team on new Story content? Threads get shut down. This does not bode well.

 

@******** we actually did have a post related to the Cathar story today. Check it out: bit.ly/PeTznL

 

Okay, yeah - explaining how to fit Cathar into both factions is a good answer to get... but is it really about story content? Does the story differ depending on a character's race?

 

I can appreciate that they want us to look at what they are saying. On their part, however, it behooves them to understand why it is difficult for us to see past what they aren't.

[Rayla_Felana]

I wouldn't repeatedly post in General for Info on this, if you are thinking this was what got us the answer awhile back, you'd be mistaken, we only got that reply, because of our asking the guy sat at his PC in the 'Rest of' section at the end of the Guild Summit and he luckily for us picked that to ask.

 

Truth sucks but there it is.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Uluain]

I wouldn't repeatedly post in General for Info on this, if you are thinking this was what got us the answer awhile back, you'd be mistaken, we only got that reply, because of our asking the guy sat at his PC in the 'Rest of' section at the end of the Guild Summit and he luckily for us picked that to ask.

 

Truth sucks but there it is.

 

Really? Because they said at the time that they had not expected for the issue to have become as prominent as it had - an indication that the Q&A campaign was successful at least in demonstrating player interest.

 

This thread has existed since February, and the only kind of community attention it has ever received was, early on, a repost of the September 2011 Announcement and, later, notes to the effect that posts had been cleaned up and we should play nice.

 

I don't see any reason not to post in General Discussion or Ideas and Suggestions or anywhere else we can shape a same-gender content question to fit.

[Rayla_Felana]

Really? Because they said at the time that they had not expected for the issue to have become as prominent as it had - an indication that the Q&A campaign was successful at least in demonstrating player interest.

 

This thread has existed since February, and the only kind of community attention it has ever received was, early on, a repost of the September 2011 Announcement and, later, notes to the effect that posts had been cleaned up and we should play nice.

 

I don't see any reason not to post in General Discussion or Ideas and Suggestions or anywhere else we can shape a same-gender content question to fit.

 

I'm not saying that is why they know we want it, but that IS why they gave us that information on it.

[Tatile]

So what's being said is that Bioware's now a hetero-centric company? That sucks. Or maybe it doesn't and that's the problem :/

[Tenebram]

So what's being said is that Bioware's now a hetero-centric company? That sucks. Or maybe it doesn't and that's the problem :/

 

Bioware isn't but in a game as large and online based at this, seems like they are scared to do anything but as far as single player games go they have been at the forefront of gay rights.. though this is kinda slipping into real world politics

[Kioma]

So what's being said is that Bioware's now a hetero-centric company? That sucks. Or maybe it doesn't and that's the problem :/

 

I... think that's a pretty big (and negative, and possibly incorrect) assumption to make. Bioware: Austin is not the entire company. Also, we simply don't know how much or how little attention this matter is being given. We only know that our queries have been getting the cold shoulder for a long time now. Everything else is conjecture.

[Tatile]

It is a big assumption and it is hyperbole and it likely is incorrect, but the game is itself is very narrow. Also, I don't care if Bioware: Austria is a subdivision of Bioware, it's still part of Bioware and represents Bioware, so it also reflects on Bioware as a whole.

[Kioma]

It is a big assumption and it is hyperbole and it likely is incorrect, but the game is itself is very narrow. Also, I don't care if Bioware: Austria is a subdivision of Bioware, it's still part of Bioware and represents Bioware, so it also reflects on Bioware as a whole.

 

Well, you seem determined to be seriously down on the company as a whole so I won't try to convince you otherwise. I can only say that while I'm also discouraged by the sheer silence and I'm also impatient for news and cynical about ever getting it, I think your standpoint - hyperbole or not - is a bit excessive.

 

Still, it's your viewpoint and you've every right to have it.

[Tatile]

I know it's excessive, but frankly I'm too much of an idiot at the moment not to hit the reply button. I'd delete my posts, but I don't see much point in it. I feel like I need to say something, but have nothing to say, so I'm being ****tard about it. I'm promise from now I'll stop posting anything related to SGRA's - I'm only making the situation worse.

[wainot-keel]

I'm still enjoying it for other reasons (including playing with friends, and I'm slack when it comes to levelling characters so I still haven't seen any stories all the way through except Jedi Knight) so I'll stick around but no news about at least SOME stuff come GamesCoM will have me very despondent indeed.

 

 

I'm in this situation as well. I still enjoy the game. I make a FP or an operation, some datacron hunting (got the +10 the other day, w00t!) or some crafting. But in terms of classes' stories, completely halted.

 

I have my trooper getting rest points on the fleet, at level 26. I stopped playing her because I liked a lot Elara and I really don't want to continue without knowing if she'll be available or not or if I'll miss out the point to start the romance if I keep advancing.

She feels awesome for my girl. And maybe I'm weird, but I loved Elara's disapproving looks when my trooper was being all rude to that dude in Nar Shadda. Hell, it's like she and Elara are married already . Btw, J. Hale saying "you're all useless!" is awesome.

 

The other story I haven't even started yet is the Imperial Agent. I've heard nothing but good things about it. I have my character designed even and the name reserved. I'll be rolling a Mirialan, which in my case means paying 1.5 mill to unlock the species. But for now, nothing until I get more information on this.

 

Bioware isn't but in a game as large and online based at this, seems like they are scared to do anything but as far as single player games go they have been at the forefront of gay rights.. though this is kinda slipping into real world politics

 

Why being an online game would have an impact on SGRs ? The story with your companions is a private and unique experience for each player, you don't share it with others. Is not a a 16 player operation.

As far as I am concerned, the whole class story (including the companions) is a single player game.

[Kioma]

The story with your companions is a private and unique experience for each player, you don't share it with others. Is not a a 16 player operation.

 

Wow. Uh. Romance arcs as 16-player operations. I can, um, I can see some potential in that.

[Tenebram]

Why being an online game would have an impact on SGRs ? The story with your companions is a private and unique experience for each player, you don't share it with others. Is not a a 16 player operation. As far as I am concerned, the whole class story (including the companions) is a single player game.

 

I meant in the sense that it is on a much larger stage and tends to have more attention than a single player game.. there are exceptions of course but with a MMO there's a lot more publicity involved. But don't get me wrong I'm not condoning what they are doing at all I'm just trying to figure out why they are acting the way they are. I agree that the format shouldn't not affect the content like this but unfortunately it does

Edited August 14, 2012 by Tenebram

[Kioma]

I meant in the sense that it is on a much larger stage and tends to have more attention than a single player game.. there are exceptions of course but with a MMO there's a lot more publicity involved. But don't get me wrong I'm not condoning what they are doing at all I'm just trying to figure out why they are acting the way they are. I agree that the format shouldn't not affect the content like this but unfortunately it does

 

The high-profile subject matter - ie. Star Wars - has a big impact, too. Thus all the (incorrect) claims that Star Wars and romance don't mix, Star Wars isn't adult, etc.

[Uluain]

Part of my frustration is knowing that BioWare and, yes, truly, even EA aren't heterosexist companies. The Sims - which is as mainstream as a game can get - features same-gender romance options. We've been told we will have them.

 

But we don't.

 

Romance is not invisible in SWTOR. If my male smuggler talks to a female NPC, chances are good he'll have a chance to [Flirt] with her. My male trooper doesn't see as many opportunities, but he does have them - including an entire optional-but-XP-awarding side quest to hook up with a female Republic SIS agent for some "R&R". I took the quest and turned her down gently. I got some XP. I understand one gets more if one goes all the way.

 

But in absence of any leavening of same-gender content, this does create a game which is heterosexist and thus, for me, deeply alienating. I understand why some may feel my "back of the bus" analogy excessive. Trust me - from where I am playing, it isn't.

 

So really, it is a multiple-stage source of frustration: I am hammered with the strong implication that my smuggler ought to be straight. I have no in-game options to play him otherwise. And, to salt the wounds, the issue is one which Community has never addressed.

 

Yes, I think we are being treated poorly. At this point, it cannot be accidental. They may not intend it to be hurtful or dismissive, but it is.

[Kioma]

Yes, I think we are being treated poorly. At this point, it cannot be accidental. They may not intend it to be hurtful or dismissive, but it is.

 

I certainly agree that this can't possibly be accidental. I don't think it ever was. Incidental, perhaps, but not accidental. By that I mean that the Community team's refusal to answer our queries is likely a symptom of being told not to provide data by the developers, and that perhaps no actual insult is intended - but insult is clearly being taken, and not only by one or two members.

 

It is too long since we were spoken to about this. It's well beyond a reasonable time frame for an update, particularly given the upheavals in BW:A of late.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Kioma

[Uluain]

I mean that the Community team's refusal to answer our queries is likely a symptom of being told not to provide data by the developers, and that perhaps no actual insult is intended.

 

Even allowing that non-disclosure agreements prevent the Development Team from giving new information to Community, Community is perfectly able to say, "We know this matters, but we don't have anything new to tell you."

 

They haven't.

 

If you can lay out a reasonable scenario explaining why this, among all the issues that have received Community attention since, let's say, the introduction of the now-defunct Community Q&A, is something they have never said one word about, which isn't denigrating toward those interested in same-gender content, I would like to hear it.

 

Ideally, I'd like to hear it from them. With an apology.