Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Kioma]

Ya, i'm tryin be optimistic, theyve made alot of really cool games, also to my knowedge they dont have an exact date for free to play. I cant help but feel a bit of hope itl b a package deal where sgrs come right along with, n its like take it or leave it. If they did that they'd show us all theyre still cool, n still got a rep for following through, I hope they do.

 

I really don't think they'll do that (release it as an optional patch, I mean). It'd be very bad press for them and they've already got plenty of very bad press.

[Beans_of_steel]

I really don't think they'll do that (release it as an optional patch, I mean). It'd be very bad press for them and they've already got plenty of very bad press.

 

No i didnt mean optional. I mean take it or leave it as in, I hope they do something like tell TOR gamers to enjoy the new improvements and freeplay benefits but they need to accept that there coming alongside with sgrs or go play somewhere else, kinda thing. The fact there bein so low key on the subject could mean there planning something like that, sometimes its a clever move to not say anything about something til its already done, itl b alot harder for people to stop it if they just have it pop right up with the other new content.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Beans_of_steel

[Kioma]

No i didnt mean optional. I mean take it or leave it as in, I hope they do something like enjoy the new improvements and freeplay benefits along with sgrs or go play somewhere else, kinda thing. The fact there bein so low key on the subject could mean there planning something like that.

 

Oh, gotcha. Yes, it could mean that. It could also mean they just don't want to have to deal with the almost inevitable arguments and flame wars that'll erupt if they actually do outwardly tell the detractors to deal with it.

 

And if it IS the latter that means we're being made to sit in the dark purely so they can avoid a bit of conflict that will happen once SGRAs come in anyway.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Kioma

[Beans_of_steel]

Sorry bout the mistakes, sometimes i try n type at the speed i think n the words end up making no sense together, i think i fixed it.

[Beans_of_steel]

Oh, gotcha. Yes, it could mean that. It could also mean they just don't want to have to deal with the almost inevitable arguments and flame wars that'll erupt if they actually do outwardly tell the detractors to deal with it.

 

And if it IS the latter that means we're being made to sit in the dark purely so they can avoid a bit of conflict that will happen once SGRAs come in anyway.

 

Ya your right outwardy wouldent be the best way, no need to cause a war, but i think itd b good on them to put it in without warning, they wouldnt really need to say anything really, its not like theyd even have anything to answer for, if they get critisism for it they can always say they were only delivering on what they said theyd do from the beginning.

[wainot-keel]

Normally I wouldn't make any kind of deal about quitting; I'd just quietly unsubscribe and go my own way. But I've been around through six incarnations of this thread, so I didn't want to leave without saying goodbye. I hope that the rest of y'all will continue fighting the good fight. When SGRs eventually make it into the game, I might log on again, but we'll see.

 

Good luck, everyone. May the Force be with you.

 

 

I hope you can return soon and find the game and the community more appealing for you. Take care.

[sparklecat]

Personally, I'd be happy with a simple "still planning on putting this in sometime this year/it's been delayed along with the rest of the new story content, we're now looking at putting it in around _____".

 

Guild Summit helped, but that was what, coming up on six months ago? It's about time for another proper update.

[MIkeBear]

Personally, I'd be happy with a simple "still planning on putting this in sometime this year/it's been delayed along with the rest of the new story content, we're now looking at putting it in around _____".

 

Guild Summit helped, but that was what, coming up on six months ago? It's about time for another proper update.

 

All they have to say for me to be happy is "it's still coming, 100%." The fact that they won't even say that now sort of worries me. What do they have to lose by just reassuring fans that it's still on the way, without any details?

[stuffystuffs]

I'm still taking a "wait and see" approach with all of this.

 

I have a few months on my sub anyway, but GW2 is coming out this week for those with early access so we shall see.

 

My fear is that even if this feature is implemented, I won't be satisfied either with how it's done or who the options are (if it's only a few characters I'm not really interested in...yeah). I also hope there's a way lvl 50s can do these.

[Uluain]

Guild Summit helped, but that was what, coming up on six months ago? It's about time for another proper update.

 

Six months in exactly two weeks from this evening. And the last word before that was the anouncement in Sept. 2011, which the guild summit was just short of six months after. So if they have us on a schedule, we're due.

[Beans_of_steel]

All they have to say for me to be happy is "it's still coming, 100%." The fact that they won't even say that now sort of worries me. What do they have to lose by just reassuring fans that it's still on the way, without any details?

 

Ya for sure. I know a few people have said theyd quit as a result, but seriously I think many of those people are probably bluffing, n if not good riddance in my opinion. Should b in the devs opionion too, there the ones always havin to clean up the ignorant mess ppl like that leave on the threads.

[Uluain]

Here is somenthing not posted in reply to same-gender content issues but regarding Community Team efforts in general that I thought I would repost here as it does touch on our issue and what we've ask the Comm Team to do on our behalf if they can:

 

Though we are working to interact more on the forums, there are some questions that we don't have any news for at the moment. However, the Community team is also working hard to make sure your questions and concerns are escalated to the right places, and that the biggest questions in the community are known internally. As soon as we have news, we'll definitely share it, and in the meantime, we'll keep grabbing questions we can answer and posting here. And, of course, when we have big news or announcements, you'll definitely see us support those with blogs and detailed information!

[MIkeBear]

Ya for sure. I know a few people have said theyd quit as a result, but seriously I think many of those people are probably bluffing, n if not good riddance in my opinion. Should b in the devs opionion too, there the ones always havin to clean up the ignorant mess ppl like that leave on the threads.

 

EDIT: nvm, I think I misunderstood your post lol!

 

I don't think it's bluffing. I still log in once and awhile, and have my sub active, but truthfully I've been playing TSW and will be playing GW2 in a couple days... not only because they are LGBT inclusive, but that definitely plays a part. Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, I love Bioware, and there is so much to love about SWTOR. But at the same time, it's hard to remain so passionate about something that denies that you exist. If all of the characters in the game were Caucasian would that be fair to non-Caucasian players? No. As it stands, all relationships implied or depicted in the game are straight... is that fair? No. How is it fair to say "good riddance" to those who just want to feel included in something that they are passionate about?

Edited August 22, 2012 by MIkeBear

[Beans_of_steel]

EDIT: nvm, I think I misunderstood your post lol!

 

I don't think it's bluffing. I still log in once and awhile, and have my sub active, but truthfully I've been playing TSW and will be playing GW2 in a couple days... not only because they are LGBT inclusive, but that definitely plays a part. Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, I love Bioware, and there is so much to love about SWTOR. But at the same time, it's hard to remain so passionate about something that denies that you exist. If all of the characters in the game were Caucasian would that be fair to non-Caucasian players? No. As it stands, all relationships implied or depicted in the game are straight... is that fair? No. How is it fair to say "good riddance" to those who just want to feel included in something that they are passionate about?

 

Ya u misunderstood man, i meant good riddance to ppl who really would quit if same gender relationships got added.

[stuffystuffs]

We really don't know who's going to quit b/c SGRA is in b/c it hasn't been added yet.

 

I do know some IRL that have quit b/c it wasn't added and I can infer that some who used to post in this thread that don't post anymore have quit considering you need a sub to post here.

[Uluain]

I took a few months away from the game when frustration on this issue cut too deeply into my enjoyment. It would likely not have been a problem except I was levelling a male smuggler who gets so many opposite-gender [Flirt] prompts all up in his face that he should get vehicle proficiency in motorboating.

 

Moose, of course, just posted his goodbye. I hope we'll see him back again.

 

Having this planned for inclusion but not in at launch has made same-gender content a much bigger deal than it really should have to be. Optimal situation would be one in which the game comes out, with companion characters each with their own personalities and side-stories and with some options for romance. That's what they wanted to feature, and what the focus still should be.

 

But by excluding some romantic options at launch, and making that cut based on orientation rather than saying, "We'll have full story for all of your classes' first companions, but romance with second or later companions will be post-launch content", made the inclusion of same-gender content exponentially more significant that it would have been had it just been there from the start.

 

I think BioWare - I hope BioWare can see this and is maybe a little chagrinned at how it's gone down, and have learned something from it. But it leaves them in the difficult position of having to figure out how to proceed with this content to bring them back to the game they wanted to make, without it becoming a bigger deal still. Not talking about it is easier than talking about it, and probably less embarrassing. But it does leave us in the dark until whenever.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Uluain

[Beans_of_steel]

We really don't know who's going to quit b/c SGRA is in b/c it hasn't been added yet.

 

I do know some IRL that have quit b/c it wasn't added and I can infer that some who used to post in this thread that don't post anymore have quit considering you need a sub to post here.

 

 

I agree.

I for sure understand why people leave b/c its not been added, they got every reason to, n i dont blame them. Its the ppl i saw posting stuff like: "If they add it theyll lose subs n they cant afford to". that i was talking about.

[Ixum]

Wth, you all nice ppl got a reply from allison? Ive PMd joveth like so many times about my skimpy thread and no attention at all. IM JELLY! Edited August 22, 2012 by Ixum

[stuffystuffs]

I agree.

I for sure understand why people leave b/c its not been added, they got every reason to, n i dont blame them. Its the ppl i saw posting stuff like: "If they add it theyll lose subs n they cant afford to". that i was talking about.

 

Yeah.

 

It's kinda odd to quit over the existence of content that you personally don't like but is optional. I know people hate PVP and it would be odd to quit b/c the game has optional PVP encounters.

 

On the other hand, people quit all the time when the game lacks content that they do want.

[Uluain]

Following on that thought, though, it may simply have been a matter of "picking their poison". Including same-gender content is increasingly the done thing in games and entertainment in general, but it would cause a fuss regardless. Say BioWare had gone with that idea I just pulled out of my ear of full access to the story of original companions, and say for the point of the exercise that those that are opposite-gender romance enabled would be available as same-gender romances as well. Where would that put us?

 

SPOILERS for first companions and their romancibility below

 

Jedi Knight - T7 (n), not romancible

Jedi Consular - Quyzen (m), not romancible

Smuggler - Corso (m), romancible

Trooper - Aric Jorgan (m), romancible

 

Sith Warrior - Vette (f), romancible

Sith Inquisitor - Khem Val (m), not romancible

Agent - Kaliyo (f), romancible

Bounty Hunter - Mako (f) romancible

 

The way that falls out, if you want a male romance partner, you have to roll Republic and not Jedi. Empire side, a female companion is available for romance by three out of four classes. Imagine those were the same-gender options available at launch. I can think of few things more likely to skew faction balance out the gate that hot Vette, Mako and Kaliyo girl-on-girl action. Though I'd be a lot happier with my smuggler, I know the numbers are not on my side.

 

So perhaps letting us get to know the classes we like first, and meet our companions regardless of their same-gender availability, is better in the long run. Certainly, once they decided they had to limit this content, difficult choices had to be made. But from where I am sitting, and with the benefit of hindsight, I might feel better if they had left out any romance until they were ready to include all.

[Uluain]

Wth, you all nice ppl got a reply from allison? Ive PMd joveth like so many times about my skimpy thread and no attention at all. IM JELLY!

 

I spread the love around. I had been tweeting, emailing, PMing... basically, if it was an avenue of contact which Joveth mentioned in his "A Message from the Community Manager" thread on General, I have been making noise in it off and on since it was posted. I suspect many of us have. I think those seen as most likely to share with the class were tapped for PM replies.

 

Also, do scroll up to see the post by Allison Berryman I reposted here. While it was not specifically a response to us, looking at the wording of that and reading between other lines, I think we can safely infer that yes, this is one of those topics which our Comm Team is making sure the Powers That Be know about.

 

EDIT - oh, you are marching for a different cause. Fight the good fight, brother. I stand with you in solidarity for the goal of true beefcake to cheesecake parity. The day Blizzard took away my male blood elf's belly top was the saddest day of my MMO life. But I imagine the wait for the slave-boy outfit may be a prolonged one. Hang tough.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Uluain

[Kemmer]

That's possible. The thing is, though, there's a big difference between NPCs who are in same-sex relationships and playing a character who's in one with a companion. I do think that's really cool that GW2 has same-sex relationships as part of the game, it's great to see. But sadly, some people who would shrug that off would freak out just because they see a [Flirt] option when their PC is talking to someone of the same gender.

 

Yup, you're right, though it might make the transition to SGR-enabled companions if there were already a few SGR NPCs in the game (assuming there aren't any).

 

That's amazing! I had only made male human characters in the beta weekends, could you provide some detail around the m/m quest you mentioned? Are there any YouTube videos or articles about it?

 

Just Google "Gay Sylvari." Actually, any search on Sylvari will probably bring up some commentary on it. There's a bit of the old trolling here and there, but for the most part, the GW2 community at large has accepted it. In fact, I'm the only gay guy in my guild, and I'm one of the few members rolling a human. The rest are going Sylvari just because the starting area and lore are amazing. This is a far cry from the days of WoW's Burning Crusade, when just the hint of "metrosexuality" had guys screaming, "ZOMG, belf dudes are teh ****!!!"

[Kemmer]

Well im gonna put this out there i am an acctual lesbian HUH SHOCKER and would like this feature added hmm i wonder if there would have been similar discussion on adding african americans had this game existed 50-60 years ago...

There was actually discussion on the Sims forums way back when about a race toggle. Apparently an Eastern European customer, who went to great pains to say that she wasn't racist, wanted her towns to be all-white, including adopted children for "aesthetic reasons." Um, yeah. That got closed down REAL QUICK.

[Kioma]

There was actually discussion on the Sims forums way back when about a race toggle. Apparently an Eastern European customer, who went to great pains to say that she wasn't racist, wanted her towns to be all-white, including adopted children for "aesthetic reasons." Um, yeah. That got closed down REAL QUICK.

 

o.O Seriously? Yeesh.

[losdia]

Following on that thought, though, it may simply have been a matter of "picking their poison". Including same-gender content is increasingly the done thing in games and entertainment in general, but it would cause a fuss regardless. Say BioWare had gone with that idea I just pulled out of my ear of full access to the story of original companions, and say for the point of the exercise that those that are opposite-gender romance enabled would be available as same-gender romances as well. Where would that put us?

 

SPOILERS for first companions and their romancibility below

 

Jedi Knight - T7 (n), not romancible

Jedi Consular - Quyzen (m), not romancible

Smuggler - Corso (m), romancible

Trooper - Aric Jorgan (m), romancible

 

Sith Warrior - Vette (f), romancible

Sith Inquisitor - Khem Val (m), not romancible

Agent - Kaliyo (f), romancible

Bounty Hunter - Mako (f) romancible

 

The way that falls out, if you want a male romance partner, you have to roll Republic and not Jedi. Empire side, a female companion is available for romance by three out of four classes. Imagine those were the same-gender options available at launch. I can think of few things more likely to skew faction balance out the gate that hot Vette, Mako and Kaliyo girl-on-girl action. Though I'd be a lot happier with my smuggler, I know the numbers are not on my side.

 

So perhaps letting us get to know the classes we like first, and meet our companions regardless of their same-gender availability, is better in the long run. Certainly, once they decided they had to limit this content, difficult choices had to be made. But from where I am sitting, and with the benefit of hindsight, I might feel better if they had left out any romance until they were ready to include all.

 

. . . Does it really matter about first companions? You pick up your first three companions fairly quickly. For every class two out of the first three companions (not counting the ships droid) can be romanced, and the first companion mission is a 30-something level mission. I don't think you can even pull off all the missions to fully romance a companion until like level 45.

 

I've always thought it had to be pretty late in the game when they decided to pull SGR. Several of the companions don't have SGR subtext, it is just plain text you can't do anything with. Personally I think Vette with a female SW is the most blatant about this, but I haven't played through all of the classes to know if anyone actually tops her.