Kabjat Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 lol. Nobody said they needed damage meters for pre level 50 crap. I was obviously talking about max level raiding like any reasonable person here would. and i was OBVIOUSLY talking about how the PRE level capped people would abuse it. If it could be made available to ONLY level 50s, that would be great. It blows my mind how insulting you are...especially when I said all of that to begin with. But seeing as how you clearly don't CARE how the game effect anyone but YOURSELF I suppose I shouldn't be all that surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ainianu Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 No, it ruins immersion and fun whenever it gets pasted up.. And this is coming from a raid leader/tank in EQ who DID use something similar (called Gamparse) very extensively in that game. In EQ it was a nice tool to have to monitor new encounters to find armour class thresholds, see who is slacking on dps, see how much healing is needed for main tanks... etc Here it is simply not needed in such small scale operations and for such a lovely immersive and atmospheric mmo... it would break the immersion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) and i was OBVIOUSLY talking about how the PRE level capped people would abuse it. If it could be made available to ONLY level 50s, that would be great. It blows my mind how insulting you are...especially when I said all of that to begin with. But seeing as how you clearly don't CARE how the game effect anyone but YOURSELF I suppose I shouldn't be all that surprised.Perhaps enable combat logs and meters for parties comprised of same-guild players, during target practice and the moment a party switches from a group to an operation - otherwise leave them disabled by default? Edited January 8, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) After eliminating the impossible, whatever remains no matter how improbable, invariably becomes the truth. If playing without addons makes the game more challenging, then the obvious conclusion is that addons make gameplay easier. If playing without addons makes the game less challenging, then the obvious conclusion is that addons make gameplay more difficult. So addons either make the game easier to play or more difficult to play. Everything else is personal preference where need becomes irrelevant. It doesnt make the gmae challeging if you take away addons but without recount it makes identifying the bad DPS from the raid group impossible. Edited January 8, 2012 by Forsbacka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) It doesnt make the gmae challeging if you take away addons but without recount it makes identifying the bad DPS from the raid group impossible.Just a guess but removing addons from WoW would make its end game not only challenging but virtually impossible to progress through. Is WoW's end game winnable without addons? And what does that say about the game? Edited January 8, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahl Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 NO. Reason: Because only total morons want to turn playing a game into a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayana Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Bottom line: a tool like Recount is very useful...but only to a select demographic of players. Level capped, raiding players. The problem I have with it being implemented is that it will be abused by those who would abuse it to wrongfully kick people from groups. That's a big problem. My sentiments exactly. Folks are kidding themselves if they don't think it gets abused in WoW. It's already being abused in LFR even when we are one-shotting bosses...mainly to get rid of competition for gear when one class is very abundant in the raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalin Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Personally I would like a recount type add on. For one, I like to gauge my progress vs. other players. I always got enjoyment out of inspecting a character (on wow of course) see that I had worse gear, then out dpsing/healing them by a long shot. Most of the time it resulted in that player whispering me and I would teach them what I did. So in a round about way, it made me a better player for wanting to be better, and it made them want to be a better player. For two, I have never kicked someone for poor performance because of what recount has told me. Yes I have inspected people, and the moment they pop off at the mouth and make a run unpleasant, I would kick them. BUT I have tried to help people improve their performance based upon what recount has told me. For three, because of the lack of a dungeon finder, adding a recount would have less negative effects than if there was a dungeon finder. More than likely those players aren't going to want to spend the time going back to their main city and spending ridiculous amounts of time finding a replacement (if it's a tank/healer you replaced.) I personally remember less complaints about damage meters prior to dungeon finder in wow. Noticed, I said less. Regardless of how you look at it, there are positives and negatives on both sides. Some jerks will abuse it, some won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 NO. Reason: Because only total morons want to turn playing a game into a job. Only morons think the game turns into a job just because there are meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstaxo Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 hell no go back to wow now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 To track your own data sure. To track others no. Other people are players and not npcs you treat as recount numbers. Groups should work together to overcome content not arbitrarily decide who should be doing more or else. Play the game with other people and don't treat others as just additional companions. Also damage log ability is something people should be able to prevent others from seeing if they want. There is no reasonable gameplay reason for why others can see a 100% accurate damage log of others. That should have to be shared voluntarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sttm Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Yes. Because its part of PVE in a modern MMO, and to not have is just silly. Competing against other players on the DPS meters adds a huge amount of depth and fun to PVE which is needed in an MMO where you can end up doing the same instance every week or every day even for months. Bioware has a DPS meter for PVP, they see value in being able to compare how a player did after a PVP fight, and I see no reason why the motivation for having it in PVP does not work for PVE as well. If you want a game where you dont compete against other players then get a single player game, as the point of multiplayer has always been competition, either head to head in pvp, or through damage meters in pve, or loot collection in pve, or achievement whoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Right... And you can do it while there are other 15 players in raid? I doub it. Simply put: yes, recount is needed in game. Yeah you can actually. People raided in mmogs before recount. People need to work together to overcome content. Recount just creates fingerpointing. It is a crutch and a request for an easy mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelAnne Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) To track your own data sure. To track others no. Other people are players and not npcs you treat as recount numbers. Groups should work together to overcome content not arbitrarily decide who should be doing more or else. Play the game with other people and don't treat others as just additional companions. Also damage log ability is something people should be able to prevent others from seeing if they want. There is no reasonable gameplay reason for why others can see a 100% accurate damage log of others. That should have to be shared voluntarily. Totally agree with this statement. If people want to see how "good" they are, then fine by me. But as soon they can see others, it will just ruin group play. I am tired of the elitist´s that inhabit wow these days. After the first trash pack you hear stuff like "you suck noob", "afk noob", "kick noob" etc. While its not said to me, its said to strangers who did nothing wrong - but just dont take the game that serious like the elitist´s. A friend once even got insulted because she was not doing as much damage like I did with my tank. Bare in mind she was new and it was a lvl 20 dungeon... If you want a game where you dont compete against other players then get a single player game, as the point of multiplayer has always been competition, either head to head in pvp, or through damage meters in pve, or loot collection in pve, or achievement whoring. If you want to compete vs. other players, then MMO´s are not the game for you. MMO´s have never been about meters - just because wow told you this, its still not true. You are better off by playing Counter Strike my friend. Edited January 8, 2012 by RachelAnne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 DPS Meter are a simple way to measure Players Skill. Player Skill is usefull clearing hard instances. DPS Meter help getting the best skill tree tested out. It's for real gamers, not the casual ones sry bro, u mad now? Measuring how others are doing and more importantly your group or raid is doing without recount is an even more impressive and harder earned skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 You have never lead a raid in your life. I wonder if you even know other humans. They lie. Not all of them all the time. But enough of them some of the time. Recount takes their lies and shoves them back down their throat. OR it helps the other people in the raid help someone that isnt lying. Not having it just allows us all to act like the pieces of crap we are whenever we feel like. I am not excluding myself from any of this. I am also not excluding anyone else. Recount>liars and inexperience. Recount =/= people being mean to eachother. You sound like a bad raid leader. If you need recount to successfully lead a raid in an mmorpg you need to review what you are doing. People are not damage numbers they are people. Most of you so called raid leaders just single out people at the low end of the dps list. Yet what if the guy at the top of the dps chart is only delivering on 80 % of his capacity and the guy at the bottom is at 95%. Instead of telling the guy at the top to improve you just replace the guy at the bottom with someone playing the same class as the guy at the top. You just replaced one of your best players with someone playing an overpowered spec/class. That is not being a good raid leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTornPanda Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 5 stars. Need combat logs and damage meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 After the first trash pack you hear stuff like "you suck noob", "afk noob", "kick noob" etc. While its not said to me, its said to strangers who did nothing wrong - but just dont take the game that serious like the elitist´s. If you are going to be playing in a group setting you need to be able to carry your own weight. If you don't take the game "serious" enough to do that then you shouldn't be in the group to begin with. If you don't want to hear stuff like that - don't suck... if you can't help but suck don't put yourself in a group that has higher expectations than you can deliver. I'm sure you can find a nice casual friendly guild of very non-competitive types to quest and do normals with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrFett Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 No. E-***** meters are not needed in SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthrax Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I do not. I actually like dps to figure out mechanics instead of ignoring them to "top teh deepz." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorwinOfAmber Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I believe you`v been already told that, bu i`ll repeat, just in case - go back to WoW. Bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 By spending some time grouping with them in Non-Raid content. Having conversations. You know.. generally investing more interest in them than "Your 6k DPS.. good to go bro." This is key. People use these tools to replace social interaction and treat others as npcs instead of people and players. It is funny when raid leaders say people will lie... Lol yeah some people will lie but if you interact with people as humans you create a better play experience for everyone. Some people would be more than happy with a Lfd feature that listed every dps in the game by their avg dps for the last 10 comparable dungeons and pick them to be auto ported to the dungeon with you regardless if they wanted to go or not. A big part of these games is interacting and working with other players. The overall real impact of something like recount is massively negative to that experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 And this is all it comes down to really. Bads vs goods. Bads dont want it because they will get called out for being crap, then dropped and ridiculed UNTIL they make an effort to get better. Goods NEED it to raid with and to make sure they are ontop of their game with rotation, gearing and specing right. "encourage competion in damage" This is exactly the point..This is a GAME is it not. Games are played AGAINST other people. Tennis is a GAME, The competition there is also fierce.Any GAME will have competition, its in the nature of the word. Without competion, what exactly is the point of playing? I could just go watch tv!!! I strive to win. I strive to beat you. THIS IS MY FUN AND MY REASON why i play MMO's and fps. Take that away from me, and ill go back to playing games like skyrim and mass effect full time again. And lastly , you cant have skill without competition. The 2 go hand in hand. You mention you dont want competion in damage, yet then go on to mention how only skill should prevail? How does that work??? Weird. You would think bads were the ones who failed at content without recount and goods the ones who don't need training wheels to defeat combat. Nice try claiming the good players are the ones who have to have the game made easier though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maigrey Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I'm not against information because all information is useful but I've also seen no evidence in this game so far, even in level 50 operations, that it's necessary. I'm leaning towards being against simply because players are idiots and don't know how to gauge it properly outside of what it's intended for. I remember playing vanilla wow in 40 mans without the need for it.. that is because all you needed was 15-20 people to carry a 40 many raid, the other 20 or so could be AFK and you would be fine. If the encounters are tightly tuned, which I would prefer, then you need mroe tools than what is currently in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackobite Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I dont want it Because Tor doesnt need it, imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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