Nerf Jedi Sentinel

[Mournblood]

This one time, at band camp, a Sentinel/Marauder was getting focused fired, so he used his Force Camo, but then someone dropped some probes and caught him trying to sneak away, and they started beating him like a drum again and he was almost dead but then he popped his Undying Rage and was immune to practically everything everyone threw at him, including a trombone, a cello, and even a kitchen sink.

 

Then, someone CC'd him, laughed at him for 5 seconds, and killed him.

[Valorman]

The 4-man premade I was in consisted of sorc healer 2 assasins and 1 marauder. The other guild premade we teamed up with was roughly the same. I was usually top DPS with between 400-500k on average. And this was over a 7 hour period yesterday. But we seriously had to focus fire the sentinels (couldn't even bother with the healer because the sentinels would kill us all before we could even kill just the healer).

 

Don't tell me none of you have come across invincible Sentinels/Marauders?

 

I mean it was so bad last night that on Civil War, we had captured Snow and Repubs at Mid and Grass, and we had to to leave 4 on Snow to defend while the other 4 tried to cap mid/grass, because this one sentinel and a healer could still kill all 4 guarding Snow.

 

I've played a lot of PVP in this game and very seriously in others, and I'm not claiming that I'm the best or anything, but the people I play with are people who take this seriously. We practice (against each other in various 1v2 1v3 2v3 3v3 4v4 etc.) combinations in Tatooine, frequently experiment with different gearing/spec trees and generally take this a lot more seriously than we should. I'm not saying we're the best, but we're not scrubs. And the other Imp guild we queing with has the reputation as the best imp pvp guild on our server. But yeah, only a handful of our marauders werein our que.

 

Anyways, the question still stands...have any of you ever seen ANY DPS class get anywhere near 800K damage in a single WZ? The fact that that is possible, is just weird. Sure, this sentinel was a fantastic player. Knew who to attack and was just very good. He clearly practiced a lot and knows how to play his sentinel. But I feel like there are plenty of other great PVP players in other classes, who also really know how to play. It's just that our potential to do DPS is capped at a certain level, and a sentinel's potential is capped somewhere between 200-300k damage above us.

that guy is just amazing then but i have seen people do 700 and 600k in warzones but 800k? ive seen that once with a juggernaut who kept smashing everyone in the area btw what was this sentinels spec?

[LiveandDieinLA]

Doing 800k damage in a game is as much a product of what the other team does as what you do.

[Givemedanger]

Don't nerf damage nerf survival.

 

He uses jedi guardian DPS set bonus i bet. Without it they do less damage.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Givemedanger

[Divino]

No, buff the things that are underpowered!

 

This. Tired of people thinking that the only way to do things is to take away. They are capable of adding to any class. And if you want to get technical if they nerf Sents then they have to fix how our skill tree applies buffs to certain skills.

[SweetOldBob]

One of my chars is a Comabat-spec'd Sentinel. I have a ball playing it, but I feel a lot more like a glass cannon than over powered.

 

I'm a noob, so this is mostly because of my ineptitude, but I play a **** load of WZs, and I have been at the top of the table exactly once with my Sent. I doubt that I have ever hit harder than 4K.

Edited August 26, 2012 by SweetOldBob

[Chimerako]

lol he has two lightsabers so double the damage. Just ask Bioware to give you a stun that knocks his off hand saber out of his hand. Problem solved...

[bobmcbo]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=522237

 

conclusion: instead of nerfing everything until there's nothing left to nerf, balance is out by making the really weak specs better.

[mulzii]

nah, just tweak Gbf to 99% dps reduction while active..

[HollowVamp]

a good sentinel will never deny the fact that we are op, we where a strong class before the un-needed buffs, the reason the class got buffed a ton was that almost all sents where bad players, good maras and sents have been reaching 800k since the beginning. but in helping the noobs out with buffs, the players who where good to begin with became gods. theres ALOT to be fixed and balanced, but how can they? ea got rid of everyone who knew what to do. Edited August 26, 2012 by HollowVamp

[TonyDragonflame]

Maras on one line with Snipers, which pure dps class too. They are dont OP both, they are must adjust all other dps classes in line.

 

PT pyros and Tankasins - this only really OP classes, because they are above the line, above Maras and Snipers.

[Lord_Karsk]

It's not going to happen- BW is too intent on ruining the game, class balance was the second thing to go in the toilet after world pvp. Expect more buffs to sentinels, and more nerfs to ops, mercs and sorcs.

 

It's not even a guess at this point- it's a fact that BW has no clue what they're doing.

 

Pretty much this, bioware destroyed class balance 1.2 and everyone knows it.Even the trolls playing the op classes knows this.They dont have a clue what so ever and the entire gaming commmunity know it by now.

 

Remember this blog by someone that actually have a clue ?

http://taugrim.com/2012/04/13/swtor-pvp-in-1-2-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/

http://taugrim.com/2012/05/20/swtor-has-repeated-rifts-mistakes-in-endgame-pvp/

[Wainamoinen]

This. Tired of people thinking that the only way to do things is to take away. They are capable of adding to any class. And if you want to get technical if they nerf Sents then they have to fix how our skill tree applies buffs to certain skills.

 

That's an irrational reaction to fear of being weakened. "I like the way it is, leave me alone!"

 

Example. You have (let's say) eight classes, seven in rough balance and one that's overpowered.

 

If you try to individually tweak the way each of the seven lower classes work, it's much harder to hit equality than simply reducing the single class that's out of line.

 

This still applies if you have two over-strong classes out of 16.

 

Second, while emotionally it feels worse to be weakened than see everyone else strengthened, you end up at the same position in relation to the other classes at the end.

 

So nerfing a couple of OP classes makes a lot more sense than trying to boost everyone else. It's much more likely to successfully reach acceptable balance.

 

P.S. Note "acceptable": if you have classes with different ability sets (if not, what's the point having classes at all?), then they will never be precisely equal in all situations. The best you can hope for is "pretty near, over all", such that other factors like skill aren't insignificant.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Wainamoinen

[Givemedanger]

Just remove undying rage from the game or make it also reduce damage dealt by the sent/mara by 99% too.

[Lowry]

way I see it: this game wants everyone to be within certain range of others. what do the devs call it? the 5%? this means that if any one person is able to crush other people (or in the case of Sentinels/Marauders, 3 or so people at a time) with any kind of regularity, it's a problem and needs to be fixed. even if it's only one person, the possibility should not exist for him to have such a huge advantage over others. even if 99% of sents/marauders are putting out average stats, if that 1% exists that can regularly solo 3 other players and win, then it's a problem.

 

The solution, however, is not to just nerf the class across the boards. The solution is to find whatever mechanic this person is exploiting and make it less powerful, so that the 99% does not lose anything, but the 1% also becomes more normalized.

[CrazyOldMystic]

Sorry to do this to you op, but when someone says nerf this class, it usually means they dont understand pvp at all. By nerfing the sentinel would you be willing to watch them nerf the jugger and the marauder? The fact is the imperial side delivers damage like no other. So should we nerf every imperial class then? The answer is no, so why you guys come on here and say nerf this class or that class is beyond me. The reason for this is when ever a class gets hit with a heavy nerf there is a ripple effect, that later on hits the rest of the classes in a bad way, and then it starts to effect the pve side of the things too. So unless you want your class nerfed Id becareful on saying this class needs a nerf. Yes this is generally how it works in a mmo, because 90 percent of the time the devs miss the target, and over nerf a class. To clean up their mess they have to hit everyone with a nerf in one area or another, to bring balance back into the game.

 

Now that s out of the way. I wont say pvp is balanced right now. First and foremost getting stunned and then killed is again becoming a regular ocurrance in pvp. By stunned and being killed I mean unable to even fight back. Point two not sure why but most of the time sith class seems to be immune to my interrupts on a regular basis, once in awhile they work but most of the time they do not. As a pvper I want the chance to fight back. This is why I left wow because pvp in wow turned into lets see how many different ways can we keep this guy from even moving. Its bad enough my survival got nerfed on my commando, and blitz no longer works in pvp. It is just down right bloody enraging to just stand there get stunned and killed, and not even able to fire off one shot. I could say this or that class needs nerf. Given my experiences in the pvp world. I watched and learned to be careful when saying things like that. I just wish they would make it so as a commando I could at least stun someone to death, and cause a auto cool down on their abilities, like what these imp classes have been doing to me. If I cant get that then maybe they should turn allot of these stuns, and crowd control abilities into pure damage only. Lastly on the area of balance there has been way too many instant caps in the warzones of late. Hell I managed to do one on my toon without even realizing it. I must have been on the cap for not even 2 seconds, it was a fresh cap, and somehow I managed to cap the area. Not sure how or why thats happening, but this happening on the coast can be bad, but when it happens for the other side in a area like the civil war. It makes you want to put your fist through the wall.

So I hope the devs look at the balance over all, and dont do something *** hole like stupid like they did with the commando, and nerf a class heavily just to score popular points.

[Aizen]

way I see it: this game wants everyone to be within certain range of others. what do the devs call it? the 5%? this means that if any one person is able to crush other people (or in the case of Sentinels/Marauders, 3 or so people at a time) with any kind of regularity, it's a problem and needs to be fixed. even if it's only one person, the possibility should not exist for him to have such a huge advantage over others. even if 99% of sents/marauders are putting out average stats, if that 1% exists that can regularly solo 3 other players and win, then it's a problem.

 

The solution, however, is not to just nerf the class across the boards. The solution is to find whatever mechanic this person is exploiting and make it less powerful, so that the 99% does not lose anything, but the 1% also becomes more normalized.

 

Agreed^

 

And this is what happens when the real problem gets ignored. because playing with percentages is NOT looking for the actual problems within each of the classes. It's often ignoring them.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Aizen

[TheronFett]

Remember this blog by someone that actually have a clue ?

http://taugrim.com/2012/04/13/swtor-pvp-in-1-2-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/

http://taugrim.com/2012/05/20/swtor-has-repeated-rifts-mistakes-in-endgame-pvp/

 

Using Taugrim as a talking point of validation is like quoting Wikipedia as a reference. You're doing it wrong.

[foxmob]

quoting Wikipedia as a reference. You're doing it wrong.

 

god, i hate reading "humanities" papers in gen ed courses....

 

er...sorry. back to swtor. a good mara can solo 2 relatively equally geared opponents with average skill.

 

b/c of ur and cloak, i can't burn them down on van. but even outside of ur, i have to slow/dot and kite while someone else kills him. again, a *good* mara can have incredible burst & absolutely cannot be face tanked. very good ones hit like mack trucks to boot.

 

most sents/maras can be solo'd on van or commando medic. nothing like the satisfaction of taking a guy from 100% to 0% with hammershot. won't happen in rated though. just for gits and shiggles in reg.

 

the really frustrating thing is you could have 4 ppl on him and he's going to hold that node for at least 5 more secs or 2v1 him and def going to lose at least one of your 2 (baring heals/breaking combat).

 

i also don't get why ravage was uniterrubtable for ALL wars/jks in 1.2. that's 2 abils that must be stunned, but he has a breaker too (use for ur or a long hard stun). i think it's an immunity that should cost skill points - like the root on leap or ravage.

 

all that said, i think a good sin should be able to take a good mara. there are just so few sins with mastery over the dps trees of their ac...at least that i've encountered compared to the relative ease of the mara's cds

[XTREDEN]

I wonder what we have more threads on, SWTOR is dying or Sent/Mara nerfs.

 

Figure it out guys, they are working EXACTLY as intended. Its no different then an extremely tanky tank. This class is designed to be deadly, if it can get its hands (sabers) on you. That's the rub though, pretty vulnerable to CC. There is no lack of CC and therefore no excuse in this game.

 

Your not supposed to 1v1 them. Your not supposed to let them roam around pillaging your back lines. Your supposed to CC them and burn them down as a team. Figure it out guys, its not hard. Teamwork trumps firepower.

[Savej]

<<

er...sorry. back to swtor. a good mara can solo 2 relatively equally geared opponents with average skill.

>>

 

Proof? The burden of proof is on the accuser and all I've seen are irrelevant anecdotes and whines.

 

On my servers (Fatman and Jung Ma), even with their super survival and unbeatable dps, sents and maras do not consistently top wzs in damage, objectives, solo kills or whatever. Sometimes they do, but more often that not is another class. And they absolutely die just as much as any other class does (some more than others). They are better than most classes in 1v1 but that advantage evaporates in 3v3, 4v4 or 8v8 (and they certainly aren't unbeatable in 1v1). Sure some players are better than others. In a Nova a few days ago I saw this awesome Ops guy get 7 solo kills and topped damage by 100k over anyone else in the wz (including my wh sentinel). I've run into him a few times and he always does very well. Nerf Ops?

 

This whole "nerf sent/mara" sentiment (necro) is a pile of bs. The OP was whining about one guy that could probably just as easily top damage with a jugg, sorc, sniper, ops or powertech - he just happened to like the mara.

[foxmob]

<<

er...sorry. back to swtor. a good mara can solo 2 relatively equally geared opponents with average skill.

>>

 

Proof? The burden of proof is on the accuser

 

uh. ok, perry mason.

[Tyrias]

I wonder what we have more threads on, SWTOR is dying or Sent/Mara nerfs.

 

Figure it out guys, they are working EXACTLY as intended. Its no different then an extremely tanky tank. This class is designed to be deadly, if it can get its hands (sabers) on you. That's the rub though, pretty vulnerable to CC. There is no lack of CC and therefore no excuse in this game.

 

Your not supposed to 1v1 them. Your not supposed to let them roam around pillaging your back lines. Your supposed to CC them and burn them down as a team. Figure it out guys, its not hard. Teamwork trumps firepower.

 

Heh, one of the funnier argument as to why Marauders are fine. And one I read on a frustratingly frequent occurrence.

 

Firstly, everyone is always spouting on about how CC is the bane of a marauder. Except that CC is equally the bane of every class (except a Shadow/Assassin who has specced for shorter break free, but even that's not a massive difference), more so the classes with the lightest armour than with medium or heavy armour. They'll take more damage, albeit is only a small amount, from the same attacks, and won't end their CC any the quicker.

 

Secondly, given their burst capability, you're saying the way to prevent a marauder killing you is with CC? But all the "Marauders aren't OP" proponents will also tell you that their defensive cooldowns aren't OP, you just need to save your CC for their defensive skills. So which is it? It can't be both, because you'd have already filled their resolve by the time they get to their defensives.

 

Following you logic through, you seem to feel it's absolutely fine that you're not supposed to 1 vs 1 a marauder, you're supposed to 2 vs 1 them (which is in itself a pretty good indicator that a class/spec is OP). So the remaining 6 people on your team are then supposed to cope just fine with the remaining 7 people on their team? If that is supposed to be balance, then balance is stupid.

 

I do agree, Teamwork trumps firepower. And teamwork is about organisation. But then, a couple of organised Marauders trumps a couple of organised anything else... which bring you back in full circle to, you guessed it, Marauders have either too many tools for their DPS, or too much DPS for their toolset.

 

When your own defence of a point backs up what other people are saying against it, it's time to stop.

[Shadowsite]

It's getting a bit ridiculous. There's one guy on our server who is consistently getting 600-800k Damage per warzone. Now I'm sure skill has something to do with it, but considering that even the best players in other DPS classes rarely ever (if at all) get that high, shows that there is a massive unbalance.

 

And before people start dispensing with the "you're all bads" nonsense, we were rolling with War Heros and two of the best Imp guilds on our server. I was ranging between 200-500k Damage per WZ but it literally took 2 or 3 of us to take down 1 sentinel. Way way way overpowered.

 

There's a Guy called theScyph on YouTube, and on his Pyrotech Merc he gets about 850k per game...

[mulzii]

the problem with sentinels and marauders is not the DPS, its the survivability which is better than tanks in pvp.

Currently, they have of of if not the best aoe stun on a low cooldown, multiple ways to get into melee range (leaps), 99% damage mitigation (undying) on a low cooldown, they got a combat stealth and then massive dps.

 

Leave the DPS alone, either increase the cooldown on the aoe stun or make it 4 secs duration. leave the cloak alone and my undying 99% damage mitigation BUT while active, put a 99% dmg debuff on the marauder for using it. Barring that, they should make undying like enraged defense is for a jugg.

 

People may argue with the aoe stun being OP, that it breaks on damage. Thats true, but the marauders burst is so big, that they can literally nail you multiple times a huge chunk of HP before the lag/game gets you out of the stun.