If 1.3 comes without Ranked warzones expect another 400k unsub

[Extenzz]

LOL you weren't part of the business model to begin with

 

Yawn.... anyone posting crap like this has no clue what "business model" means. This game lost 25% of its subscriptions since launch, and I absolutely guarantee you that more subs will be lost if ranked WZs are not implemented soon. I can also guarantee that new games launching soon and lack of action on BW's part will result in a continued decline. This inaction has been amply described on these forums, hence the importance of these forums to the developers (if they were smart).

 

Arguing that all the negative posts on game forums (and players who post them) represent some "counter-culture" of angry people is the most naive "business model" of all. When gamers post negative things on forums, they mean it. When the majority of threads in a "General Discussion" and "PvP" forum are negative, the game has issues. The players have spoken, like it or not. Adapt or fail!

[Seravis]

I can already predict that SWTOR will be dead very soon regardless of what is done now. Bioware has taken too long to fix some major issues with the game, and people are losing faith in Bioware. With some pretty major game releases on the horizon it looks like there is no chance of recovery now.

 

In General-

 

Most servers are just ghost towns now, and it is impossible to get a group for PVP or even PVE. The only options for people playing on them is to quit, reroll to a new server, or pray that Bioware does server mergers. I for one would NOT reroll a class that I have spent 100+ hours on so the only options would be to Quit or hope Bioware does server merges ASAP. With games like Diablo 3 coming out many more people will stop playing SWTOR for a good chunk of time, and even more servers will become ghost towns.

 

In PVE-

 

Endgame PVE in SWTOR isn't really "non-existent", but I wouldn't really say it has much going for it. It just feels lackluster compared to other MMOs. This isn't really a huge issue at the moment compared to the other issues though.

 

In PVP-

 

Group PVP in this game is an absolute joke right now on so many different levels, and Bioware hasn't even fixed to simplest of the issues. PVP groups being disbanded after every WZ. Unable to play with more then 3 friends. No rating system of any kind. Premades just stomping PUGs. Insane gear grind for War Hero. The game has nearly no appeal to serious PVPers right now. All that is keeping the PVP player base afloat are (broken) promises of "Rated PVP next patch".

 

I wanted this game to succeed, but with a lack of much to do in endgame PVP or PVE, dieing servers, and new game releases it looks almost hopeless for SWTOR. Bioware had their chance to add in much needed content, especially for PVP, for months now, but have failed to deliver ANYTHING.

[Macroecon]

They've already admitted they are losing 200k subs NET per month (400k for the 3 month quarter with one month negated via the free subscription). Yes, that is NET. Actual gross unsubscribes are higher. Somewhere in BW alarm bells must be ringing. But frankly they are now caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

Ranked wz will require x-server queues. But once you siphon off PvP players who want to play ranked wz, the normal Level 50 unranked wz queue on 90% of the servers will be insufficient to generate a match for about 20 out of 24 hours of the day. So ranked wz essentially means all wz must go x-server. And that's a problem. It's a problem for low population servers because players on those servers will have difficulty assembling groups without a group finder function. Even then they may not want to group with the same people all the time.

 

So now there are a lot of moving parts. Ranked wz requires x-server. X-server requires group finder. The possible unattractiveness of group finder requires offering server transfers. Personally I don't think they can wait until 1.3 for all of these tings if they want to keep subscriber numbers above 1 million. Not having them even with 1.3 would simply be disastrous.

[Twin]

LOL you weren't part of the business model to begin with

 

I think you're wrong...they intended pvp to be part of the model, but failed to deliver. (Failing with Ilum and failing with Rated's for example...not to mention Open World on tat and general) - and thats likely also why they lost alot of subs...

 

These quotes below, clearly states that PvP is a BIG part of the current business model, which is all that matters now.

 

He says that the team discovered that SWTOR had a huge PvP community and has since "turned a huge amount of resources" to developing more content for that side of the game.

 

“Although we had not originally planned the game to be heavily PVP-focused, the ease of getting in and playing the Warzones combined with their fun design gave us the highest PvP participation of any modern triple-A MMO,” he said. “At that point we turned a huge amount of our resources to PVP development, but we’re still playing a bit of catch-up, and that is understandably frustrating to our most advanced PVP users.

[Livein]

If 1.3 comes with Ranked warzones and they still won't fix STAGGERING class balance issues expect another 400k unsub.

 

Not everyone is willing, or have time to reroll marauder/assa tank just to PvP competitively. And fighting those classes right now (I'm sorc) is just depressing.

[Anbokr]

All my friends have quit from lack of ranked pvp/arenas. I was optimistic and stayed as I enjoyed SWTOR pvp, but honestly, does it take 5-6 months to implement dual spec/ranked pvp. They frikken announced that they were working on these features in early January. Ranked was slated for 1.2 and dual spec "shortly thereafter." Then ranked is delayed to "a couple weeks after 1.2" and dual spec for 1.3 supposedly. Now both are completely MIA. Probably the two most requested features along with LFG rofl. Too much incompetence across too many months. Edited May 10, 2012 by Anbokr

[Delease]

Don't forget the unarmed boxing..... Am I the only one that imagined the legacy system would have something like a skill tree that we could use our legacy levels on? Because getting emotes and unarmed boxing really didn't feel fulfilling (I have never seen or heard anyone using the unarmed boxing either, or the emotes).

 

In BW's attempt to not make feel casual players feel like they are missing out, they are not really giving anything of value to the more active players. It seems like in their attempt to sit on the fence to not offend anyone, they aren't really offering anything of worth either...

 

Why is it that everything we are grinding (Valor levels and Legacy levels) don't really seem to mean a whole lot anymore? Is this just me?

 

I have no proof of this but in my mind i put the blame on EA for pushing this game out sooner then it hsould have been. Legacy should have been at release. Obviously EA wanted this out for the holiday season. I have never been a fan of EA from back in the Madden days and how they just strung that title along year after year completeing butchering it. More concerned about quantity rather then quality.

[DarthNiktu]

i think you should go to the forums and rage about......oh wait!

 

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 5 characters.

 

+1

Edited May 10, 2012 by DarthNiktu

[Zintiel]

I can't really imagine that there is more interest in PvE in this game than PvP.

 

Maybe it's just my server but there don't seem to be a ton of really great people to draw from for PvE raiding, yet still they've downed every boss. It doesn't seem hard. I don't see global sites ranking guilds as best in the world. I mean I was in a PvE guild that was one of the best in the world in WoW for a brief time. It was a fun trip but also an annoying amount of time sunk into a second job. I'd pretty much never do it again.

 

PvE gimmick fights don't seem half as unusual as those in WoW. No vehicles, no transformations, no weird 'hot potato' mechanics. Most of them seem to be tank and spank while not 'standing in the fire'. Even if they did add things like this, they'd be copying what's already been done.

 

Your reward is that you get to do your dailies a little faster? Your best in slot PvE gear isn't going to do a thing for you in PvP where you'll get owned cause you don't have expertise. You can't even have the satisfaction of topping damage or healing meters in raids because there are none.

 

Maybe the big PvE audience is people leveling alts?

 

This is just my opinion and all, I might even be wrong since I haven't really even cared to explore PvE in this game past leveling up toons or watching videos of a few boss fights. I'd really be surprised thought if it was less than 50% of people playing this game that were focused entirely on PvP.

[Harsisus]

Title says it all, You have been ignoring PvP content and the players to long, We are paying customers which deserve our content aswell. stop ignoring us.

 

Adding Novare Coast = ignoring customers?

 

Right, ok.

[Harsisus]

If 1.3 comes with Ranked warzones and they still won't fix STAGGERING class balance issues expect another 400k unsub.

 

Not everyone is willing, or have time to reroll marauder/assa tank just to PvP competitively. And fighting those classes right now (I'm sorc) is just depressing.

 

Your issue is not a balance one - it's a game play one. I was in a premade all evening last night and only once did I have an issue with a marauder constantly flying at me like a Japanese fighter pilot.

 

Funny thing is, the closest he came to killing me was in a fight where my team helped me out - I was consistently knocked down to a single hit away from health, and the fight took about 1 minute total, but he lost - which is the point. On my own I would have died in about 6 seconds, but I had help which allowed my to heal both myself and my team mates (I'm a Sorcerer, by the way, so I can't do any of that easy-mode fire and forget healing like other healing classes).

 

Having Juggers use guard and Maras use their buffs on me (and I'm not talking about those class buffs - they should be a constant regardless) helps my positioning stay consistently in the best place possible, and I was able to sometimes sit and fire off multiple chains-casts of my Dark Infusion (2.2 secs p/cast), Force Shield, Revivification, etc... Not a fluke, either, as this was through about a dozen matches total with this pattern.

 

As a comparison, queuing into PuGs against these same people (vs. Republic) always got us stomped and the match lost.

 

Huge difference between premade and PuG.

 

If your premade isn't doing it for you, change tactics, change composition, change something until you find the optimum.

[Angel-Sanctuary]

i think you should go to the forums and rage about......oh wait!

 

 

haha made my day

[Dirge_of_Destiny]

As a PvPer myself, I'm actually glad ranked warzones aren't available yet. I hear the cries of my fellow PvPer's and I don't think they're entirely unwarrented, but to me the joy of PvP is facing the unpredictable. I want to be in occasional warzones with the little nooblets who have to ask how to throw the huttball. (yes, getting stuck in those groups all the time is annoying, but a skilled pvper finds ways to overcome difficulty. relying on a pre-made team is a crutch for the weak. I also enjoy shooting my friends occassionaly.. they should know whose boss..) As soon as PvP gets watered down into a series of predictable moves and countermoves, it becomes un-fun. Moreover, rated Warzones will destroy even the most remote possibility of world PvP. For that reason, I believe world PvP should be the first PvP priority. In the world, people can run around with their friends all they want. (and then jump into a warzone where they can shoot those friends in the head) Sadly, there's no pvp in the world right now and that needs to change.

 

Now there are other things that need to change too. I can't for the life of me figure out why they haven't done at least a few server merges already. I understand that some players like low-pop servers (I'm not one of them), but the current number of low-pop servers is ridiculous. If not merges, at least a round of free transfers for those people who don't want to be stuck on low-pop servers.

 

Also, realize that if any MMO were to give the players everything they asked for in a month, that MMO would be dead 3 months later because the players would have nothing to look forward to.

 

At any rate, you can sing the praises of D3 or GW2 all you want. You know as well as I do that you're gonna spend money on those games, then spend just as much time and effort complaining about them as you do about starwars and as you have about every other MMO. An MMO without complaints is an MMO that no one has actually played.. hence the brilliant records of those games that haven't been released yet.

[Elmuerto]

meh go play something else I know I'm gonna. This ain't a pvpers game, Hoth battles with At-Ats, and smash downs Empire v Republic like the promo video will never happen.

 

End the White Wine and shrimp fest.

[Fdzzaigl]

I don't think so, but if 1.3 comes out without dual spec and without even a set planning for when to implement dual spec, I will most likely quit.

[KrustyDog]

nah if anything they might lose...50K subs, sorry your a minority.

 

Hmmmm. Pvp'ers abandoned ship and game is tanking. Must be because we're such a minority. Its your attitude that got this game in such a mess in the first place.

[Phlem]

I'd put it more around 50-100k, but the total number of people quitting will still be around 400k because it's becoming more and more clear that BW is in over their heads.

[KhalDrogoe]

1.3 almost certainly won't have ranked WZ's. That's the group finder patch.

 

 

Look, Bioware has already stated numerous times that they had working models of ranked WZ's and all the feedback about them was that they sucked. So, would you rather have crappy ranked WZ's quickly, or wait longer for something significantly better?

 

GIMMIE RANKED NAOW!!! I don't give a crap if it's the worst ranking system ever or that i face teams significantly harder than me, I gives a ****. Ranked WZ's = Ranked Warzone Comms = grind is more balanced across the board.

[Libensborn]

I don't think so, but if 1.3 comes out without dual spec and without even a set planning for when to implement dual spec, I will most likely quit.

 

You can unsub right niw cause they clearly said in one of the latest Q and As that dual spec will never be inserted.

[TalkingDinosaur]

LOL...And you know this how?

Because everyone knows PvPers make up 99.999999% of MMO's. * And I also have Harold Camping here who everybody knows is always correct with his predictions.

 

* /Sarcasm

[Treisababe]

As a PvPer myself, I'm actually glad ranked warzones aren't available yet. I hear the cries of my fellow PvPer's and I don't think they're entirely unwarrented, but to me the joy of PvP is facing the unpredictable. I want to be in occasional warzones with the little nooblets who have to ask how to throw the huttball. (yes, getting stuck in those groups all the time is annoying, but a skilled pvper finds ways to overcome difficulty. relying on a pre-made team is a crutch for the weak. I also enjoy shooting my friends occassionaly.. they should know whose boss..) As soon as PvP gets watered down into a series of predictable moves and countermoves, it becomes un-fun. Moreover, rated Warzones will destroy even the most remote possibility of world PvP. For that reason, I believe world PvP should be the first PvP priority. In the world, people can run around with their friends all they want. (and then jump into a warzone where they can shoot those friends in the head) Sadly, there's no pvp in the world right now and that needs to change.

 

Now there are other things that need to change too. I can't for the life of me figure out why they haven't done at least a few server merges already. I understand that some players like low-pop servers (I'm not one of them), but the current number of low-pop servers is ridiculous. If not merges, at least a round of free transfers for those people who don't want to be stuck on low-pop servers.

 

Also, realize that if any MMO were to give the players everything they asked for in a month, that MMO would be dead 3 months later because the players would have nothing to look forward to.

 

At any rate, you can sing the praises of D3 or GW2 all you want. You know as well as I do that you're gonna spend money on those games, then spend just as much time and effort complaining about them as you do about starwars and as you have about every other MMO. An MMO without complaints is an MMO that no one has actually played.. hence the brilliant records of those games that haven't been released yet.

 

 

^^^ this.

This game NEEDS world pvp right now. Lvling up i felt like i was alone in the world cuz i never saw any Reps. Also i agree that we need Cross server ques or server merges before we should get ranked at all.

The difference between pvpers and pvers is pretty huge. Myself i just pvp due to lack of time i can pve. So waiting to get into a Wz match is getting pretty tiresome and frustrating. So cross server ques would be really warnted and wanted before getting Ranked. One thing i do like about bioware is that they are listing to us and know that we WANT a finished product and not some half assed piece of crap that will make us unsub anyways.

 

For me im not going to unsub tell i see a HUGE drop in pvp but ive tried all the beta's and Played Tera and tbh this is the only game im finding fun. So pvpers and pve people just relax and lets see what happens

[KhalDrogoe]

^^^ this.

This game NEEDS world pvp right now. Lvling up i felt like i was alone in the world cuz i never saw any Reps. Also i agree that we need Cross server ques or server merges before we should get ranked at all.

The difference between pvpers and pvers is pretty huge. Myself i just pvp due to lack of time i can pve. So waiting to get into a Wz match is getting pretty tiresome and frustrating. So cross server ques would be really warnted and wanted before getting Ranked. One thing i do like about bioware is that they are listing to us and know that we WANT a finished product and not some half assed piece of crap that will make us unsub anyways.

 

For me im not going to unsub tell i see a HUGE drop in pvp but ive tried all the beta's and Played Tera and tbh this is the only game im finding fun. So pvpers and pve people just relax and lets see what happens[/QUOTe]

 

I'm already unsubbed. If they want to keep me they need to release ranked warzones ASAP heck should've been in 1.2 regardless of how buggy it was.. Not like they can apply a patch and NOT screw things up *cough* matrix cubes *cough*

[vibenode]

WALL OF TEXT ALERT

Ok on topic...I run a very successful PvP Guild on one of the higher pop PvP servers. Most of us have now unsubbed with the lack of a Ranked implementation. We are riding out our subs and our 30 days free and if it isn't here were offski. At peak times we have 4 groups of 4 running at the same time, maybe even some solo queuers are well. So why do we want ranked so badly? I'll tell you:

 

Probably the most important fact...it has already been announced as being implemented, then delayed. Going to be pushing up a month now since it was pulled from the patch at the last minute. This is probably the biggest reason why people are wanting it in now, it was promised and they haven't delivered. Worst thing you can do in business is over promise and under deliver! Damages peoples faith in your brand. Announced to come in 1.2 and not until post 1.3 is unacceptable to paying customers!

 

Game Value to us. Myself an my Guild pay our £8.99 only to play Warzones, the odd unscheduled operation every now and again but essentially just to be a solid WZ guild with great teamwork. Were not getting what we want for our money currently. We want to be able to queue as a full 8 man ops and test our skill & teamwork against other similar skill teams. Contrary to what most people think about competitive PvP players just wanting to just stroke their E-Peens, it has nothing to do with that. Its about enjoyment! It's not exactly fun beating a full PuG team. Where is the fun in not having to use all your skill to overcome an opponent and just steamrolling them? I play PvP as its a challenge overcoming the totally random decisions and actions of other players. We want to play teams our level

 

Ranked Warzone's had the potential to become a highly competitive E-Sport, if they don't get ranked in soon they are going to have alienated their PvP community to such an extent that all the seriously competitive players have moved on to another game. These events are huge publicity. Spreaming and E-Sport events bring players to the game! But guess what they need as a starting point to move off from...A Ranking system so they know the best guilds capable of competing in these events are.

 

Conclusion:

 

Simple fact is that BW made too many server on release, they have spread their players way too thinly and they haven't done anything to counter it. I REALLY hope the reason they are doing this delay on Ranked is to make it X-server when it is implemented. If they do this not only will it keep a large % of the people complaining about lack or ranked, it may even bring people back.

 

I find it entertaining to listen to the PvE players hating on here about PvP players, who cares about Ranked etc. Do you not realise that if you lose all or most of your PvP playerbase then your PvE content will be severely damaged due to lack of funding. As well as that, people who have an interest in PvP tend to be better players, not saying all PvE only players are bad, far from it, but PvP increases your reaction times and class knowledge more than PvE in which you're stood still a fair bit and not using all your abilities.

 

BioWare has a long list of things to do atm but they really need to get their priorities right. Take everyone developing Legacy and useless vanity stuff off it and get your core game sorted:

 

We need Ranked! We need Server Transfers! We need X-Server queueing. That is all you need right now...So go do eeeet, Pew Pew

 

P.S. Do something with Ilum for god's sakes. You have a World PvP area there doing absolutely NOTHING. Turn it into a Wintergrasp where its a battle every 45 mins or whatever. Just SOMETHING to it, lol.

Edited May 10, 2012 by vibenode

[-Ransome-]

I won't be unsubbing, It hasn't been a secret this game is story driven and is strongest from 1-50. I'd rather them work on more star wars stuff then the same old mmo stuff. If I want alot of mmo stuff ill go play wow, but Im not cause I'm tired of it. I play different games to play a different game.

[PoeticRex]

This game will be F2P in less then 9 months. It will never gain back the amount of subs it had at launch. You delusional fanbois can keep your flashy game with no substance. Ooo we have voice overs and cool music haha!