If 1.3 comes without Ranked warzones expect another 400k unsub

[SpaceGaunt]

You can unsub right niw cause they clearly said in one of the latest Q and As that dual spec will never be inserted.

 

That's a blatant lie friend, they have said they will implement Dual Spec, but in 1.4 or 1.5 last I remember.

[NyteSabre]

This is getting to the point where I just can't do this anymore. I can't queue and play with my friends and have to suffer PuG's who are less skilled. The game is geting boring, MMO's are suppose to have a social aspect to them, PvE people can queue 8 and 16 man, PvP is stuck with 4....

 

This game is slowing down unfortunately, I dont think it will ever entirely fail, but I think there will be some major staffing cuts, which will mean even slower content releases. I have tried leveling my 3rd alt purely to pass time until 8 man queues came out, but looks like it just isn't going to happen in a timely manner. As each night passes my friends and I are getting more frustrated and are now talking about other games, and we were pretty big SWTOR fans.

 

I loved the game at release despite everyone's ************, but its getting stale and the one thing that would keep me going is playing with my friends, which I can't, so I think its time for me to unsub.

Edited May 10, 2012 by NyteSabre

[Yinon]

Tabula Rasa Comes to mind.

[NyteSabre]

Adding Novare Coast = ignoring customers?

 

Right, ok.

 

And....we lost any incentives for world PvP, thus completely killing it off. So we are ahead how?

[Treisababe]

WALL OF TEXT ALERT

Ok on topic...I run a very successful PvP Guild on one of the higher pop PvP servers. Most of us have now unsubbed with the lack of a Ranked implementation. We are riding out our subs and our 30 days free and if it isn't here were offski. At peak times we have 4 groups of 4 running at the same time, maybe even some solo queuers are well. So why do we want ranked so badly? I'll tell you:

 

Probably the most important fact...it has already been announced as being implemented, then delayed. Going to be pushing up a month now since it was pulled from the patch at the last minute. This is probably the biggest reason why people are wanting it in now, it was promised and they haven't delivered. Worst thing you can do in business is over promise and under deliver! Damages peoples faith in your brand. Announced to come in 1.2 and not until post 1.3 is unacceptable to paying customers!

 

Game Value to us. Myself an my Guild pay our £8.99 only to play Warzones, the odd unscheduled operation every now and again but essentially just to be a solid WZ guild with great teamwork. Were not getting what we want for our money currently. We want to be able to queue as a full 8 man ops and test our skill & teamwork against other similar skill teams. Contrary to what most people think about competitive PvP players just wanting to just stroke their E-Peens, it has nothing to do with that. Its about enjoyment! It's not exactly fun beating a full PuG team. Where is the fun in not having to use all your skill to overcome an opponent and just steamrolling them? I play PvP as its a challenge overcoming the totally random decisions and actions of other players. We want to play teams our level

 

Ranked Warzone's had the potential to become a highly competitive E-Sport, if they don't get ranked in soon they are going to have alienated their PvP community to such an extent that all the seriously competitive players have moved on to another game. These events are huge publicity. Spreaming and E-Sport events bring players to the game! But guess what they need as a starting point to move off from...A Ranking system so they know the best guilds capable of competing in these events are.

 

Conclusion:

 

Simple fact is that BW made too many server on release, they have spread their players way too thinly and they haven't done anything to counter it. I REALLY hope the reason they are doing this delay on Ranked is to make it X-server when it is implemented. If they do this not only will it keep a large % of the people complaining about lack or ranked, it may even bring people back.

 

I find it entertaining to listen to the PvE players hating on here about PvP players, who cares about Ranked etc. Do you not realise that if you lose all or most of your PvP playerbase then your PvE content will be severely damaged due to lack of funding. As well as that, people who have an interest in PvP tend to be better players, not saying all PvE only players are bad, far from it, but PvP increases your reaction times and class knowledge more than PvE in which you're stood still a fair bit and not using all your abilities.

 

BioWare has a long list of things to do atm but they really need to get their priorities right. Take everyone developing Legacy and useless vanity stuff off it and get your core game sorted:

 

We need Ranked! We need Server Transfers! We need X-Server queueing. That is all you need right now...So go do eeeet, Pew Pew

 

P.S. Do something with Ilum for god's sakes. You have a World PvP area there doing absolutely NOTHING. Turn it into a Wintergrasp where its a battle every 45 mins or whatever. Just SOMETHING to it, lol.

 

well said

[lijahrobinson]

If a restaurant promised to deliver food you ordered and then didn't and you complained, would it be reasonable to tell you to shut up, stop whining, if you're unhappy go somewhere else?

 

Ranked WZ were promised with 1.2. They said they would be there. The OP and anyone else unhappy with this failure has a valid reason to be angry. Every single day they don't deliver they are letting the player's down. BW will lose subscribers and they deserve it. That's what incompetence and failure bring you in business - decreased revenue.

 

Read the ToS. They have the ability to withold/remove any content for any reason. We all agreed to it. It also mentions that content can be subject to change so I think its safe to say that we were warned that this kind of stuff could happen.

[Legendari]

LOL you weren't part of the business model to begin with

 

I'm sure having 190 relatively empty servers and a handful of packed ones wasn't in their business model either. Like it or not, PvP has become more important to the end-game than even their PvE content on many servers. It is the most accessible end-game feature right now on low population servers and that is causing more and more people to try it. On Thana Vesh, a PvE server, most of the lvl 50 population can be found queued for PvP on a nightly basis. If it weren't for PvP keeping people busy, I'd say we would have a LOT less people on during peak hours.

[NyteSabre]

Read the ToS. They have the ability to withold/remove any content for any reason. We all agreed to it. It also mentions that content can be subject to change so I think its safe to say that we were warned that this kind of stuff could happen.

 

Yes you are correct, and we can't sue them for broken promises, they are protected by their ToS, and rightly so.

 

However, we are still completely entitled to be unsatisifed custumers who show our dissatisfaction with our wallets.

[oompadouche]

Im in a guild with about 60 people and its a pvp only guild. If they dont come out with ranked pvp or/and 8 person group pvp then my guild is already planning to unsub.

[crustie]

if you look at the server list most PVE servers are still thriving very well. it's the PVP crowd that is very fickle. they want instant gratitude. what they don't understand is that patients is a virtue, and most mmo's pvp sucks for the first year anyways. so they will move on to tara and GW2 until they find things that are broken in the pvp there as well, then rage quit those games too. the next big mmo will come out and they will migrate there or back to WoW.

 

i am an mmo veteran of 17 years. i have faith that like most mmo's that come out pvp eventually gets alot better/balanced with time. i usually will not even play a new mmo until 6mo-1yr after it comes out for this reason alone. i made an exception for this game and i'm feeling the growing pains, but i'm still having tons of fun while doing it.

[oompadouche]

if you look at the server list most PVE servers are still thriving very well. it's the PVP crowd that is very fickle. they want instant gratitude. what they don't understand is that patients is a virtue, and most mmo's pvp sucks for the first year anyways. so they will move on to tara and GW2 until they find things that are broken in the pvp there as well, then rage quit those games too. the next big mmo will come out and they will migrate there or back to WoW.

 

i am an mmo veteran of 17 years. i have faith that like most mmo's that come out pvp eventually gets alot better/balanced with time. i usually will not even play a new mmo until 6mo-1yr after it comes out for this reason alone. i made an exception for this game and i'm feeling the growing pains, but i'm still having tons of fun while doing it.

 

Im not sure what you are looking at on the server list but the only server that seems to be thriving is the Fatman, all of the other servers are mainly light. On the weekends they seem to go up slightly but for the most part they are light

[PoeticRex]

The only servers that ever had a que were pvp. Even if you are very very very very generous and average 1k active players over the 200 servers you will get 200k players base. The game is dying.

[RTCBrad]

anyone claiming pvp to be the minority playstyle in this game is delusional.

 

the devs have stated multiple times that more than 50% of players have participated in warzones, while barely 35% of players have participated in operations.

 

this game has a strong PvP community, and bioware is realizing this. their design decisions do not reflect their desire to maintain the PvP community though.

 

if ranked warzones do not come out before 1.3, as we were told when they were scrapped from 1.2, the 25% sub drop this past billing cycle will be nothing

 

Ya this is true. It has been stated many times that the PVP community in this game is larger, it's a fact.

[crustie]

Im not sure what you are looking at on the server list but the only server that seems to be thriving is the Fatman, all of the other servers are mainly light. On the weekends they seem to go up slightly but for the most part they are light

 

right now they are light but it's 12PM EST on a thursday.. but usually when i look at peak times a lot of pve servers are "standard" where the pvp are always "light".

Edited May 10, 2012 by crustie

[oompadouche]

I have never done a operation and have done 10 flashpoints this whole time ive played. I have no interest in them because they are just flat out boring. I only play these type of games for pvp and thats all.

[NyteSabre]

i usually will not even play a new mmo until 6mo-1yr after it comes out for this reason alone. i made an exception for this game and i'm feeling the growing pains, but i'm still having tons of fun while doing it.

 

Yes that is a mature way to approach MMO's, however if everyone did that, your MMO's wouldn't exist after 6-12 months if everyone only started subbing at that time, so sledging the pvp'ers who subbed from day 1 so you can have a game at 6-12 months seems... immature.

[oompadouche]

MMOs die quicker these days because there are so many out there.

[Treisababe]

if you look at the server list most PVE servers are still thriving very well. it's the PVP crowd that is very fickle. they want instant gratitude. what they don't understand is that patients is a virtue, and most mmo's pvp sucks for the first year anyways. so they will move on to tara and GW2 until they find things that are broken in the pvp there as well, then rage quit those games too. the next big mmo will come out and they will migrate there or back to WoW.

 

i am an mmo veteran of 17 years. i have faith that like most mmo's that come out pvp eventually gets alot better/balanced with time. i usually will not even play a new mmo until 6mo-1yr after it comes out for this reason alone. i made an exception for this game and i'm feeling the growing pains, but i'm still having tons of fun while doing it.

 

 

Im a 11 year vet and i remember ( know the time of the game isnt like now) wow didnt have anything. Taurren mill and SS was the pvp. But still the growning pains on wow are far worse even in cata then they are in Swtor. Im really enjoying this game witht he "lack" of competitveness. Just wait it out Ranked WILL be worth it and will show everyone why they waited. Tera isnt that great cuz i hate the grind to lvl. Gw2 is already a failure in my mind and its still in beta. Ive never quit a beta as fast as i did for GW2. Tera i got to lvl 27 and said **** it and deleted. Im not going to unsub yet ill wait it out tell i see the full package for ranked

[crustie]

Yes that is a mature way to approach MMO's, however if everyone did that, your MMO's wouldn't exist after 6-12 months if everyone only started subbing at that time, so sledging the pvp'ers who subbed from day 1 so you can have a game at 6-12 months seems... immature.

 

i've been here from day -6... like i said, i'm feeling the growing pains but dealing with it... unlike most of the fickle pvp crowd that are far too impatient to do so. i'm not blasting people that sub day one, i'm blasting them for expecting a perfect game within that 6-12mo time period. if you are going to sub that early into a game then you NEED to recognize there will be A LOT of growing pains to deal with.

 

what i'm trying to say, those players would benefit from waiting the 6-12mo and let the rest of us deal with the growing of the game. those 400k subs gave the game a good boost, but the game would be far better off with just 1 mill remaining subs on day 1 that don't mind the growing process, and those 400k popping in 6-12mo later.

[vibenode]

if you look at the server list most PVE servers are still thriving very well. it's the PVP crowd that is very fickle. they want instant gratitude. what they don't understand is that patients is a virtue, and most mmo's pvp sucks for the first year anyways. so they will move on to tara and GW2 until they find things that are broken in the pvp there as well, then rage quit those games too. the next big mmo will come out and they will migrate there or back to WoW.

 

i am an mmo veteran of 17 years. i have faith that like most mmo's that come out pvp eventually gets alot better/balanced with time. i usually will not even play a new mmo until 6mo-1yr after it comes out for this reason alone. i made an exception for this game and i'm feeling the growing pains, but i'm still having tons of fun while doing it.

 

Stereotyping gets you nowhere man. I don't care how long you have been playing MMO's or how old you are. I don't care how you feel about PvP players, your wrong. Yes many are like that but there are just as many recount watchers and people who only care about DPS in PvE. As someone else stated, many people who wanted to exclusively PvP rolled on a PvP server. PvE focussed players rolled on PvE. With the decline of PvP server that only tells you 1 thing. That PvP is lacking, not that all PvP players are fickle and impatient...just lol man. I've stuck through this game since release, warts and all. I really don't appreciate an arrogant individual like yourself grouping me into a category saying i'm impatient and fickle. Go a page back and read my Wall of Text, until then cool story brah.

[crustie]

Stereotyping gets you nowhere man. I don't care how long you have been playing MMO's or how old you are. I don't care how you feel about PvP players, your wrong. Yes many are like that but there are just as many recount watchers and people who only care about DPS in PvE. As someone else stated, many people who wanted to exclusively PvP rolled on a PvP server. PvE focussed players rolled on PvE. With the decline of PvP server that only tells you 1 thing. That PvP is lacking, not that all PvP players are fickle and impatient...just lol man. I've stuck through this game since release, warts and all. I really don't appreciate an arrogant individual like yourself grouping me into a category saying i'm impatient and fickle. Go a page back and read my Wall of Text, until then cool story brah.

 

lol... look at the server in my sig... i'm on a PVP SERVER... ALL i do is PVP... i could care less about ops and hm fp's.. i'm not saying ALL pvp'r are fickle and impatient, BUT THE VAST MAJORITY ARE... end of story

 

and if you had some level of comprehension you would have deducted that by at least my second paragraph that i am a pvp'r.. lol

Edited May 10, 2012 by crustie

[Ahhmyface]

Yawn.... anyone posting crap like this has no clue what "business model" means. This game lost 25% of its subscriptions since launch, and I absolutely guarantee you that more subs will be lost if ranked WZs are not implemented soon. I can also guarantee that new games launching soon and lack of action on BW's part will result in a continued decline. This inaction has been amply described on these forums, hence the importance of these forums to the developers (if they were smart).

 

Arguing that all the negative posts on game forums (and players who post them) represent some "counter-culture" of angry people is the most naive "business model" of all. When gamers post negative things on forums, they mean it. When the majority of threads in a "General Discussion" and "PvP" forum are negative, the game has issues. The players have spoken, like it or not. Adapt or fail!

 

Speaking of clueless...

 

Every single game forum is filled with whines just like this. Every single MMO since wow has had massive sub decline after launch. I believe the phrase is "par for the course". Obviously Bioware should do what it can to prevent or slow the process, but acting like you've got hard evidence the game is bad is really laughable.

[NyteSabre]

Every single game forum is filled with whines just like this. Every single MMO since wow has had massive sub decline after launch. I believe the phrase is "par for the course". Obviously Bioware should do what it can to prevent or slow the process.

 

I agree. The 400k loss is managable at this stage if the delcine doesn't continue at the same rate, and yes, some people use this figure to falsely strengthen their arguments. For myself and many other PvP'ers however, regardless if the game gained 1 million subs or lost a million, it makes no difference when I hit the unsub button due to no 8 man WZ queuing come 1.3.

Edited May 10, 2012 by NyteSabre

[Ahhmyface]

People should stop saying that pugs are bad players, they are not - just like premade players are not always good.

 

A premade does have key advantages that are just there even if you would have 8 horrible players in that group. They do know each other, have a voice chat tool and can communicate on the fly.

 

All these things a pug has not.

 

The premade will always be faster at a node, a premade will always focus an enemy better and will have a much better map control.

 

The skill of the actual players is not involved there at all.

 

As soon both groups have the same tools ( premade vs. premade) the skill is what decides the match. The thing is, that situation does not happen at Tor yet - because pugs are what these premades meet in most cases.

 

So to say that these people are good players, is wrong as they did not prove anything yet - except that they can use a voice chat

 

What this game or any MMO need´s is a queue system which does seperate those groups from pugs. If pug vs. pugs and premade vs. premade fight´s then you will see who has skill and who not. The best way of seeing this is actually having a ladder, like League of Legends has - even tho the 2men queue is too strong there, as a dominating lane can decide a game.

 

Personally I do hope that the solo and premade q does come soon, if BW does make the mistake like Blizz did with no seperate queue´s - then people will quit for sure.

 

Let me debunk this nonsense like I did in the other thread.

 

You're wrong about every point you made.

 

1. Voice chat isn't necessary. Good players know what to do without being told.

2. Premades are full of good players. Pugs aren't bad because they are random. They are bad because they have bad players. If I randomly got paired with members of my guild we would still own. You don't have 3 good players sitting around, and then one of them going "oh, lets pick up this bad scrub, don't worry, voice chat will make him good". No. This literally never happens. You sit around and everybody checks their friends list for a) the needed role b) quality. Occasionally you powerlevel(powergear?) somebody's alt, but that's about it.

3. Premades have better map control and cap nodes faster and generally suck less not because of voice chat, but because of a WILLINGNESS to cooperate. Pugs, for whatever reason, are full of players that have no concept of cooperation. You can tell them in chat to do something, providing the same communication as if you had them in voice chat, and they will just ignore you. Premade members probably won't.

4. Premades are better geared, because higher skill usually correlates to higher success rate, which results in more invites to premades, which results in more wins, more gear, and more wins.

 

As for queues, forget pug vs premade. It's a stupid distinction. Players that work together SHOULD win. Premades are literally players that are working together. Ranked matches are fine, there's no sense pairing goods against bads over and over, but it has nothing to do with premades.

[vibenode]

I agree. The 400k loss is managable at this stage if the delcine doesn't continue at the same rate, and yes, some people use this figure to falsely strengthen their arguments. For myself and many other PvP'ers however, regardless if the game gained 1 million subs or lost a million, it makes no difference when I hit the unsub button due to no 8 man WZ queuing come 1.3.

 

^ This. It's not about lack of patience on our part, its about BW over promising and under delivering