Subs down 25%

[JeramieCrowe]

Understood and I have no arguments there. I was just throwing out my anecdotal experience into the mix

This particular thread's topic has been interesting to observe though. On the one hand, you have the haters who are gleefully using the numbers to pronounce doom and gloom (setting themselves up for quite a ribbing if opening up the game to more countries brings a raise in subs in the next report). On the other, you have people trying to dismiss the numbers (I'm sorry there's no credible way to spin those numbers in a positive light). I think the numbers are concerning, despite what EA says, but it's still no reason to declare the game dead. I still have hope for it anyway <shrug>

 

Well, again, numbers are numbers. When you have most MMOs that lose more than 24% in the first 6 months, to see that TOR has actually retained 76%...well, take that however you want. The fact that it's above the typical MMO trend can be seen as positive. And, personally, I see it as a very good thing.

 

The determining factor of whether that matter or not, is what BioWare does from NOW into the future. It can continue to decrease, or it can maintain, or it can atypically increase.

 

TOR has the strong potential to atypically increase subs if they play their cards extremely right, and NOW.

[RicoFrost]

For those who say that the oceanic servers are doing well, just look at when they were launched in March, that puts them 3 months behind the rest of the drop off so I would expect to start to see those servers die off to the level of the other US and EU servers in another month or two.

 

You are so very wrong dude, we where already playing on the US servers and most of us re-rolled to oceanic server. They are busier now then they where at launch.

Edited May 9, 2012 by RicoFrost

[Frostvein]

I've posted extensively about how bad a single server LFG tool will be useless on a large number of servers, it's borderline lunacy to move was cross server and leave LFG single server.

[Rouge]

I think that BW should quickly push out more social content, make the game more connected to social networks, push out in-game minigames that could be connected to those networks and bring out content that people know from the movies, aka more zones in the movie planets and give us Yavin IV etc. Give big discounts on long term subscriptions and market the game more, bringing back updates like the timelines that got a lot of notice unlike the current ones. Give 7 days free gametime to all who buy EA games at full price, give a month's subscription if someone buys some precise number of EA games a month or two months etc. Go to serious crisis mode, but do not cut the number of servers. It's a sign trhat the ship is going down.

[Deyjarl]

I'd bet a ton of money that the 1.3 mil figure is including the free months subscription they gave out.

 

From previous post you'd likely be wrong. Do a little research before claiming you make such bets.

[JeramieCrowe]

I've posted extensively about how bad a single server LFG tool will be useless on a large number of servers, it's borderline lunacy to move was cross server and leave LFG single server.

 

See what BioWare sees, though. Put yourself in their shoes. Mark my words: 1.3 will come AFTER server transfer/shut-downs. You're right in saying that a X-server LFG tool is almost essential for a LARGE number of servers. But what if it comes after almost half the servers are culled?

Edited May 9, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[JeramieCrowe]

From previous post you'd likely be wrong. Do a little research before claiming you make such bets.

 

I don't think so, personally. My free month hasn't even taken effect yet.

[Deyjarl]

The main point is that GW2 has no sub fee at all....

 

They'll make more than what they would from subs in the store. The whole "free" think is a charade, and suckers like you fall for it.

[PuntaSur]

 

Who are the ones still playing this game? The hardcore players, despite no group finder tool. If the lack of a group finder tool is enough to drive you away, by all means, leave. You are not the majority.

 

In roughly ten years, I've been both a hardcore raider and a casual player depending on work schedules, travel, and family commitments. I stayed with games for years through expansions, beta tested, provided detailed suggestions that made it into games, and so forth. This "hardcore vs casual" is an empty debate.

 

A casual player can be loyal for years and often outlast the hardcore players who burn out and move on. Semi-casual guilds that raid tend to last far longer than the "world first" hardcore guilds who crush the records and then disband in a flame out. The casual players tend to have a good life balance and can be extremely satisfied with their two to three gaming sessions a week in the right venue.

[gutb]

This game will continue to bleed subscriptions till they merge the servers and get rid of half if not more servers.

 

It doesn't matter if you merge the servers. I'm on the busiest server and NEVER see any opposite faction. Not even much of my own. During PVP it's the same people over and over. IF there's a premade you just have to give up the whole night.

 

IF ANY OF YOU GUYS THINK YOU DON'T SEE ANY OPPOSITE FACTIONS BECAUSE YOU ARE ON A SLOW SERVER, I AM ON FATMAN AND LAST MONTH WAITED THROUGH 400 PEOPLE LOGINS AND ALMOST NEVER SAW ANY OTHER FACTION PLAYERS. GOT INTO WORLD PVP MAYBE 4 TIMES THE WHOLE GAME.

 

THE GAME WILL FEEL JUST AS EMPTY AND SLOW ON FATMAN TRUST ME BECAUSE BIOWARE SEPARATED THE PLAYERS ON PURPOSE DURING DEVELOPMENT. THIS IS SOCIALISM. MICRO-MANAGE AND CONTROL THE CHILDREN SO THEY DON'T FIGHT.

Edited May 9, 2012 by gutb

[JeramieCrowe]

They'll make more than what they would from subs in the store. The whole "free" think is a charade, and suckers like you fall for it.

 

Agreed. The average per player spent on F2P is $28 per month. I don't know about you all, but I'd rather pay $15 per month for all content available.

[djlowballer]

They'll make more than what they would from subs in the store. The whole "free" think is a charade, and suckers like you fall for it.

 

Well considering I have spent almost the same playing GW1 since launch as I have paid for SWTOR in several months I can live with being that kind of "sucker". I get so sick of people acting like GW/GW2 are P2W games. The first one wasn't, the second one won't be. The only reason we still pay 15$/month is because we are conditioned to it over our years playing MMOs.

Edited May 9, 2012 by djlowballer

[JeramieCrowe]

In roughly ten years, I've been both a hardcore raider and a casual player depending on work schedules, travel, and family commitments. I stayed with games for years through expansions, beta tested, provided detailed suggestions that made it into games, and so forth. This "hardcore vs casual" is an empty debate.

 

A casual player can be loyal for years and often outlast the hardcore players who burn out and move on. Semi-casual guilds that raid tend to last far longer than the "world first" hardcore guilds who crush the records and then disband in a flame out. The casual players tend to have a good life balance and can be extremely satisfied with their two to three gaming sessions a week in the right venue.

 

I'm in exactly the same boat. And I agree with a lot of what you say.

 

However, since it's EA/BioWare that made the "casual" statement, we have to take into consideration what THEIR definition is. And we have that available, from Damion Schubert, himself, right here.

 

Enjoy the reading. It's quite telling, actually.

[Squatdog_nz]

No, they are NOT. Unless, of course, you have empirical data toback that up? Because trial players, you have NOT SUBSCRIBED are NOT "active subscribers". It's kinda in the word, there, genius.

 

Except that they SPECIFICALLY stated it in the quarterly report:

 

"Through the end of the quarter, approximately 2.4 million units have sold through. In our last

call we indicated that we had 1.7 million active subscribers, and as of the end of April we now

have 1.3 million, with a substantial portion of the decrease due to casual and trial players

cycling out of the subscriber base, driving up the overall percentage of paying subscribers.

We have already launched a number of initiatives designed to grow subscriptions."

 

DERP.

[Proppa]

I cancelled my Sub in April (but I have the free month).

 

The reasons for that, I came from DAOC where PvP was an even playing field in terms of armour sets/abilities and the only thing which set players apart was their "skill". By which I mean how well you react to situations and follow orders / give orders to your group to survive.

 

There are players who consider themselves "Hardcore PvP'ers" who think that playing 24/7 should reward them with the best possible stats etc. This means that PvP is not skill-based, but item based more a big percentage. To me that isn't "Hardcore", grinding isn't "Hardcore".

 

I am extremely competative, when I played Call of Duty I was in the top 0.5% on the Leaderboards (Top 40k / 8M+). I also played DAOC for around 10 years, because it felt competative. Whereas this game, maybe I just use it as an excuse, but it doesn't feel competative. It just feels like those who play the most the "Grinders" (not Hardcore) players always come out on top.

[JeramieCrowe]

Except that they SPECIFICALLY stated it in the quarterly report:

 

"Through the end of the quarter, approximately 2.4 million units have sold through. In our last

call we indicated that we had 1.7 million active subscribers, and as of the end of April we now

have 1.3 million, with a substantial portion of the decrease due to casual and trial players

cycling out of the subscriber base, driving up the overall percentage of paying subscribers.

We have already launched a number of initiatives designed to grow subscriptions."

 

DERP.

 

Good catch. I stand corrected. Lame.

[Darka]

Someone has got to be blamed and its usually Casuals because they get blamed for anything an everything it seems.

[bennygold]

Except that they SPECIFICALLY stated it in the quarterly report:

 

"Through the end of the quarter, approximately 2.4 million units have sold through. In our last

call we indicated that we had 1.7 million active subscribers, and as of the end of April we now

have 1.3 million, with a substantial portion of the decrease due to casual and trial players

cycling out of the subscriber base, driving up the overall percentage of paying subscribers.

We have already launched a number of initiatives designed to grow subscriptions."

 

DERP.

 

I think your quote only proves that they count trial accounts in their overall subscription numbers. Which brings more support for my argument that they are below 400k paying subscribers.

[JeramieCrowe]

I cancelled my Sub in April (but I have the free month).

 

The reasons for that, I came from DAOC where PvP was an even playing field in terms of armour sets/abilities and the only thing which set players apart was their "skill". By which I mean how well you react to situations and follow orders / give orders to your group to survive.

 

There are players who consider themselves "Hardcore PvP'ers" who think that playing 24/7 should reward them with the best possible stats etc. This means that PvP is not skill-based, but item based more a big percentage. To me that isn't "Hardcore", grinding isn't "Hardcore".

 

I am extremely competative, when I played Call of Duty I was in the top 0.5% on the Leaderboards (Top 40k / 8M+). I also played DAOC for around 10 years, because it felt competative. Whereas this game, maybe I just use it as an excuse, but it doesn't feel competative. It just feels like those who play the most the "Grinders" (not Hardcore) players always come out on top.

 

As we speak, the PvP team is completely revamping open-world PvP. I asked for this Fridays' Q&A if they could give us some insight into what they're working on and the philosophy behind it. Let's hope they answer it, eh?

[HavenAE]

Of course it's a lot! 1.3 million people is a great number, but that's not what's really important is it? The fact that 25% of the subscriber base left after only a couple months is a cause for reevaluation of the game's direction.

 

This.

 

 

Just 5 months this game has lost nearly 50% of it's initial playerbase. Of course it's normal to see a large flux of people on a launched game.. but roughly 25% of those players left in the last 2 months, that's staggering. Obviously people were waiting it out to see if things got better, they saw patch 1.2 was a bunch of garbage and left.

 

Seriously all the time Bioware spent "working" and what they gave people was a sorry excuse for a sub system that the legacy thing is and a couple extra bosses in a preexisting raid. even the UI improvements were too little too late.

 

Basic truth of this game is that Bioware and ultimately EA doesn't know it's *****hole from a hole in the ground when it comes to MMOs. Because if they did, they wouldn't have released yet ANOTHER EQ/WoW clone in a market that has proven time and time again "Make a EQ/WoW-Clone, you will fail"

 

These idiot developers seem to think that WoW is such a smashing success because of some kind of formula in how the game was designed. There isn't anything special about the design of WoW, it's the same as many MMOs before it. Games who push the envelope and do something new but also don't half-*** it are the games that will be successful in the future. This also goes for Elder Scrolls, if they are making yet another EQ/WoW Clone like this, like Rift, like Aion, ect.. they will fail too and all of the idiot Bethesda fantards will sit on their forums doing the same thing you fantards are doing. Because you cannot copy WoW's success, because there's nothing to copy.

 

Anyone with any sort of intelligence can see that WoW's success doesn't stem from game design. It stems from their unique and admittedly impressive ability to sell the game not to gamers, but to popular culture. WoW is a game that was and still is EVERYWHERE. From cartoons to movies, to tv, to radio, EVERYWHERE. People who have no clue what the hell an MMO is KNOW WHAT WoW IS.

 

That is why Blizzard was successful. They created a culture all of itsown out of the game. Go back to some of my posts when this game launched and you'll read a few things about how I felt this game needed "more personality" because that's what makes an MMO truly standout. As it stands this game is like a dead stick in the water, it has the personality of a wet mop. That goes for the game's environment, your characters, your mobs, quests, even the cinematics are robotic. Flair, that's what it's about,m that's what makes a game something people remember.

 

SWTOR, doesn't have it. It will probably never have it. It might limp along keep it's head above water. But don't expect this game to ever rise above where it is right now, in fact expect it to continue to bleed subs until it hits Rift/WaR/Aion/ect... numbers, and it'll never recover, because that's now how this genre works.

 

 

And before you fantards go there, no I don't play WoW, I haven't played WoW for nearly 2 years., and no I won't be playing GW2 either, or secret world, or this game.

[Lt_Latency]

Someone has got to be blamed and its usually Casuals because they get blamed for anything an everything it seems.

 

It's PR-talk

 

It's yes we lost subs a ton of subs but it was only causal/trial players so they never counted to begin with kind of talk(We won't lose more because they were the except). It's just trying to spin it. Thats all.

 

Until 1.2 nothing was nothing hard core. Now there is a hard core grind for pvp gear.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Lt_Latency

[Rouge]

As we speak, the PvP team is completely revamping open-world PvP. I asked for this Fridays' Q&A if they could give us some insight into what they're working on and the philosophy behind it. Let's hope they answer it, eh?

 

It's useless, because the PvPers won't be happy with anything and will find all the possible problems and ways to cheat the open world PvP system in a week after the open world PvP is re-launched.

[JeramieCrowe]

I think your quote only proves that they count trial accounts in their overall subscription numbers. Which brings more support for my argument that they are below 400k paying subscribers.

 

Hmm... well, according to last year's conference call, they stated that they needed 500k to "break even", and then an EA rep stated that they needed 1 million for a profit that was "nothing to write home about". This report states that TOR is "very profitable".

 

So, it seems that the actual active subs are at least close to that 1.3 million number, or it wouldn't be "very profitable".

[JeramieCrowe]

It's useless, because the PvPers won't be happy with anything and will find all the possible problems and ways to cheat the open world PvP system in a week after the open world PvP is re-launched.

 

Well....yeah, I've stated the same thing over an over again in the PvP forums, that PvPers, themselves, are ruining PvP due to lack of participation, due to the fact that we can't agree on what is acceptable PvP.

 

Freaking "catch-22" situation that can't all be blamed on a developer.

[Squatdog_nz]

Good catch. I stand corrected. Lame.

 

Pretty much.

 

I have long given up on believing anything Bioware/EA says and their quarterly report is full of ambiguity and shenanigans.