SWTOR Open World PvP? WoW had it right!

[vimm]

Flying mounts killed open world pvp i belive. Or so they say.

 

Sounds pretty ridiculous, lol.

[Darthshnooky]

Sounds pretty ridiculous, lol.

 

No it's quite accurate actually. Once people could just hope from one point to another, there was much less interaction between the two factions. Add to that the ability for druids to shift into flight form and get away and the whole thing became a joke. World pvp in WoW relied on the factions coming into contact and fighting -- the pogo stick action of flying mounts greatly minimized that.

[sneroplex]

TL: DR but I actually agree to an extent.

 

While WoW's open world PVP was nothing spectacular it's certainly better than what SW:TOR has, which is basically nothing.

Edited May 6, 2012 by sneroplex

[majahlaza]

WOW had it right? The only world PVP WOW had for a long time really was South Shore vs Tarren Mill. You are comparing a MMO with multiple expansion to a recently released MMO? Come on, give Bioware a break!

 

They need to focus on server migrations and cross server queues first and foremost.

 

South Shore and Tarren Mill where in the game from launch... and they had it right. They were several areas were PVP would naturally happen....I can't think of a single area now in SWTOR where you can just be roaming around and find PVP.

[Dooger]

PvP in Warhammer was only big for a month. After that tons of people were quitting and server merges began.

 

Much like swtor the game struggled, but it had tons of world pvp non stop. It took server merges, and was a blast for windows of time.

 

2 realm world pvp does not work sadly, and it gets lopsided too easily. The wow clone pvers that think pvp is grinding gear sets throw hissy fits.

 

Server mergers will help this game short term. What they don't realize is, they have no long term if they don't merge soon. Ideally it would be best if this game retained the huge numbers of terrible pvpers it attracts, keeping up coming games free of the gear set grinder locusts that land on new games and fill servers with tears

Edited May 6, 2012 by Dooger

[Mayams]

South Shore and Tarren Mill where in the game from launch... and they had it right. They were several areas were PVP would naturally happen....I can't think of a single area now in SWTOR where you can just be roaming around and find PVP.

 

SS and TM were nothing more than an area that had the right attributes. Mobs were low level and not prohibitive to 60s, gaurds were appropriately leveled for the area (at that time, before all gaurds were turned into God mode, Roid raging, PvP killers), and there was the right amount of geographical area between SS and TM. It was in no way designed for that specifically. Believe me if you rolled a Shaman before the change where they just basically handed you your totem and said, "go have a blast!" Or any leveling toon that could not avoid that area as part of your class' progression you would know what the pre-BGs, BG of Hillsbrad added. Me personally, I had to go to TM for my water totem, in my early 20s, took about a half dozen friends running interference and about 4 hours on foot. You know what else getting that water totem was though, a 4 hour sweaty palmed, nerve shattering, absolute BLAST!

 

Now we all fly here, kill a few mobs there turn it in, yay -_- I did it... Or que for an 8 v 8 where one side usually ROFLstomps the other, collect our comms, eventually get our new gear, yay -_- what a hard fought accomplishment... No one needs to climb Everest anymore in these games, if they haven't put a flight path in to the top yet there'll be a guy standing at the bottom to hand you want you needed to get from the top anyway. There's no "accomplishment" left. Most of you probably think the exact same thing I do when I see someone in full War Hero gear - "They must have a lot of free time..."

 

Sorry to go off on a tangent there, just miss those days of forcing myself to log off for RL commitments and sitting there saying "damn that was EPIC!"

[majahlaza]

SS and TM were nothing more than an area that had the right attributes. Mobs were low level and not prohibitive to 60s, gaurds were appropriately leveled for the area (at that time, before all gaurds were turned into God mode, Roid raging, PvP killers), and there was the right amount of geographical area between SS and TM. It was in no way designed for that specifically. Believe me if you rolled a Shaman before the change where they just basically handed you your totem and said, "go have a blast!" Or any leveling toon that could not avoid that area as part of your class' progression you would know what the pre-BGs, BG of Hillsbrad added. Me personally, I had to go to TM for my water totem, in my early 20s, took about a half dozen friends running interference and about 4 hours on foot. You know what else getting that water totem was though, a 4 hour sweaty palmed, nerve shattering, absolute BLAST!

 

Now we all fly here, kill a few mobs there turn it in, yay -_- I did it... Or que for an 8 v 8 where one side usually ROFLstomps the other, collect our comms, eventually get our new gear, yay -_- what a hard fought accomplishment... No one needs to climb Everest anymore in these games, if they haven't put a flight path in to the top yet there'll be a guy standing at the bottom to hand you want you needed to get from the top anyway. There's no "accomplishment" left. Most of you probably think the exact same thing I do when I see someone in full War Hero gear - "They must have a lot of free time..."

 

Sorry to go off on a tangent there, just miss those days of forcing myself to log off for RL commitments and sitting there saying "damn that was EPIC!"

 

This guy gets it!

[sneroplex]

SS and TM were nothing more than an area that had the right attributes. Mobs were low level and not prohibitive to 60s, gaurds were appropriately leveled for the area (at that time, before all gaurds were turned into God mode, Roid raging, PvP killers), and there was the right amount of geographical area between SS and TM. It was in no way designed for that specifically. Believe me if you rolled a Shaman before the change where they just basically handed you your totem and said, "go have a blast!" Or any leveling toon that could not avoid that area as part of your class' progression you would know what the pre-BGs, BG of Hillsbrad added. Me personally, I had to go to TM for my water totem, in my early 20s, took about a half dozen friends running interference and about 4 hours on foot. You know what else getting that water totem was though, a 4 hour sweaty palmed, nerve shattering, absolute BLAST!

 

Now we all fly here, kill a few mobs there turn it in, yay -_- I did it... Or que for an 8 v 8 where one side usually ROFLstomps the other, collect our comms, eventually get our new gear, yay -_- what a hard fought accomplishment... No one needs to climb Everest anymore in these games, if they haven't put a flight path in to the top yet there'll be a guy standing at the bottom to hand you want you needed to get from the top anyway. There's no "accomplishment" left. Most of you probably think the exact same thing I do when I see someone in full War Hero gear - "They must have a lot of free time..."

 

Sorry to go off on a tangent there, just miss those days of forcing myself to log off for RL commitments and sitting there saying "damn that was EPIC!"

 

I forgot that for many fond memories of open world PVP in WoW are basically fond memories of griefing. Sure I got caught up in the whole TM/SS wars from time to time and occasionally it was fun, but more often than not on my server it was Alliance coming in and facerolling and camping TM when you were trying to level your bloody toon. Not really that much fun when you can't do anything about it, IMO it was far too easy for a few 60's to come in and decimate everything for no reason other than to grief lowbies. I know most would say, "well bring your own 60's and your own guild" but some people may actually be surprised at the notion that not every player had end-game toons in an end-game guild full of 60's ready to come defend your level 20 toon on a whim. "Well don't roll a pvp server then" well I do enjoy open world PVP when it's ~fair and spontaneous. Cataclysm launch was a great example of fun open world PVP, there was such an abundance of players all trying to do the same quests and all the same level that it was really easy to pick a fight with somebody else but you better be careful who else was around because you could piss off a bunch of people. If you wanted to be left alone most people would leave you alone but occasionally you would have that ganker or gankers going around starting **** with everybody... all you had to do was group up with your faction and fight them off. Sadly after a week everybody resumed standing around in Org spamming trade chat.

 

I don't mind that the bases in SW:TOR have extremely powerful guards and are difficult to take over, but I agree that overall the questing locations all need to be closer together to encourage some kind of encounter with the opposing faction. The only place I really got this feel was in Voss. I'm pretty sure in order to take a stance against griefing the devs were very heavy-handed in their open world design so as to minimize the possibility of PVP encounters.

[TheMove]

I miss WoW's world pvp too. Heck I even miss SWGs pvp.

 

Bioware got this game wrong. The second zones didn't overlap for pvp this game failed. Also this hero engine can't handle world pvp and tons of players in a area. This game is what it is and thats a PVE MMO with some WZ for some pvp on the side. Not a game for me.

 

$15 is nothing and I resubbed to check 1.2 out. My sub ends in 7 days than Im off to D3 and I doubt Ill ever resub again. D3, GW2, Borderlands 2, CSGo, Torchlight 2. Swtor won't even be thought about again.

[Mayams]

No, it wasn't griefing. There were dozens of 60's on each side and the battle ebbed back and forth across the field from TM to SS. I was just one-shot fodder caught in the cross fire. What made it so much fun was the near insurmountable challenge, and then surmounting it. Even more so with friends of similar level who were there for no other reason than to help me reach my goal. WoW at least had some of this "epic-ness" in it's design.

 

The Warlock's mount (Pally's as well I guess)? The Hunter's Bow / Staff thing quest? Hell I've gone out with guildie Hunters to help them with this and found hunters of the opposing faction attempting that stage at the time. Especially if they were soloing it, we would go in and clear the road of mobs so they could kite. Bare in mind we were the bastards who would scrap our own raid to stand yours up at the gates of BRM for hours! We didn't grief for the sake of ruining some level 12's play time. It was done with a point and a goal of having fun or creating an opportunity for fun (if stomping a mudhole in that lvl 12 brought 20 lvl 60s out of the woodwork then he was about to have a bad day though). And that fun sir, was in the unscripted, unpredictable, challenge. If your pissed about your 40 man raid having their MC raid ruined by us, well you are 40 lvl 60's on a PvP server.

[thefixx]

Wait. ..WOW has open world pvp? .

 

I always like when horde would raid Westfall, right outside Stormkeep. Wow only had a few things good for pvp, one was the world alert that said when a certain city or region was being attacked. If you felt like going, then go, if you didn't then don't. But atleast there were attackable towns that didn't have all champion guards, and you could kill the vendors, flight paths and quest giving npc's.. It was hilarious and it was fun.

Galaxies had a better pvp system than here hands down because there were reason other than commendations for fighting and defending.

Shadowbane was awesome, because you had guilds for a reason. You needed strength to defend your resources and your player city.

Ultima Online is the Grandfather of all MMO's and still hasn't been touched as far as things to do in a game. Swtor is all about battle, battle battle and even that isn't great, it's the just newest thing out there. If we had better reasons for fighting for things, IE control of town or planets, resource mines that gave out more abundant resources or resources the guild leader chooses for it to produce, or this list from UO of professions that this game can only jerk their chain and never touch.

1. Taming

2. Thief class, rares from npcs, stealing from players, stealing from monsters

3. Treasure Hunting, actually had skill to learn to read T maps that dropped off mobs, follow the coordinates and dig up a buried treasure chest. BOOM! fun.

4. Fishing. All good mmo's have fishing.. tons of rares come from fishing. message in a bottle, leads you by coordinates to where a ship sank, fish that spot and get RARES until you pull up a sunken treasure chest.

5. Carpentry for UO and Artisan in Galaxies.. too much fun, better crafting. I miss going out and checking on my huge harvesters that harvested resources even while you were off line.

6. A way to break stun, every stun. just blow up a minor explosion pot and you break stun, take some damage, but atleast you have a fighting chance, not this perma stun lock game.

7. Faction wars... totally dominates this warzone freak show, grind fest.

 

There's just too much to type, this would be a wall of text.. dev's take head and bring us some ingame gambling, fishing, treasure hunting as a profession, bounty hunting to track and find players, player housing and cities that are attackable.

[majahlaza]

I like reading all these Open World PvP experiences keep them coming! Bioware could take note here!

[Teabaker]

***? WoW open pvp? I lold

[majahlaza]

***? WoW open pvp? I lold

 

more like SWTOR open world pvp? LoL

Edited May 6, 2012 by majahlaza

[Mayams]

***? WoW open pvp? I lold

 

When the game first rolled out they at least didn't squash or discourage the possibility of it. It took the community to get the ball rolling though. As time went on and they couldn't help with screwing with stuff they killed it though.

 

God-like gaurds, flying mounts, unreal time sink PvP gear grinds, eventually you could que for ANYTHING from the UI while standing stark still in the comfort of your capital city. They destroyed it to be sure, but fun was had before they got their hands on their own game design and ruined it all.

 

SWTOR put out a lame duck to begin with though, this one never had the potential for open world random battles to even get off the ground. Though on my server we rung every last drop of world PvP we could out of the Plague Event. That was honestly the ONLY world PvP I have yet to see in this game, and the most fun I've had here. Ilum was just a pathetic exercise in "how not to..."

[darthmorbous]

You spoke my mind OP.

although i´ve never played WoW; i have always played in PvP servers just for the open world PvP.

the exitement of it, etc, you know what i talk about.

Age of Conan at 1.4 was perfect; all against all, purely skill based combat.

DCUO has GREAT open worl pvp skill based combat; there are areas in the game were you and the oposite faction have contradictory PvE quests, ao you have to fight mobs, interrupt the enemies questing and fighting em! (hospital in metropolis, the lighthouse in gotham, etc) from lvl 7 and on there are only shared questing areas. and F2P.

What on *********** earth was Bioware thinking when separating the quests areas so *********** much ?

if they didnt want oposing players to meet in pve servers, just put em on fdifferent instances, but WHY ON *********** HELL DID THEY SEPARATE US IN PvP servers???!!!

[Olympic]

Not running into someone from the other side while questing isn't even on the top 20 list of open world PvP issues in SWTOR.

[PloGreen]

SS and TM were nothing more than an area that had the right attributes. Mobs were low level and not prohibitive to 60s, gaurds were appropriately leveled for the area (at that time, before all gaurds were turned into God mode, Roid raging, PvP killers), and there was the right amount of geographical area between SS and TM. It was in no way designed for that specifically. Believe me if you rolled a Shaman before the change where they just basically handed you your totem and said, "go have a blast!" Or any leveling toon that could not avoid that area as part of your class' progression you would know what the pre-BGs, BG of Hillsbrad added. Me personally, I had to go to TM for my water totem, in my early 20s, took about a half dozen friends running interference and about 4 hours on foot. You know what else getting that water totem was though, a 4 hour sweaty palmed, nerve shattering, absolute BLAST!

 

Now we all fly here, kill a few mobs there turn it in, yay -_- I did it... Or que for an 8 v 8 where one side usually ROFLstomps the other, collect our comms, eventually get our new gear, yay -_- what a hard fought accomplishment... No one needs to climb Everest anymore in these games, if they haven't put a flight path in to the top yet there'll be a guy standing at the bottom to hand you want you needed to get from the top anyway. There's no "accomplishment" left. Most of you probably think the exact same thing I do when I see someone in full War Hero gear - "They must have a lot of free time..."

 

Sorry to go off on a tangent there, just miss those days of forcing myself to log off for RL commitments and sitting there saying "damn that was EPIC!"

 

All games were better when you had never experiened them. Soon gets boring though, especially when you arrived en masse to a place and then they all ran off, leaving you sat there wondering where they'd gone next, and then watching people slowly dc from the group. Most of the time thats what would happen at tauren mill.

 

Personally I prefer warzones were at least its even in terms of numbers and there is an actual objective and reward at the end of it. World pvp is to random for me.

Edited May 6, 2012 by PloGreen

[The_Bucket]

DAoC had it right.. WoW world PvP was awful when it first came out, you guys seem to forget WoW when it was still building.

[Tiaa]

DAoC had it right.. WoW world PvP was awful when it first came out, you guys seem to forget WoW when it was still building.

 

I think people complaining about WoW world PvP have no idea what

 

world PvP is. Especially if you played DAoC, you should know WoW had great WPvP.

 

Even after Battlegrounds. It just stopped being large scale when Blizzard decided to add high level guards everywhere.

 

How was WoW world PvP terrible? WoW had large scale zerg fest to small scale fights.

 

And they destroyed it because of the carebears who rolled on PvP servers couldn't deal with getting "ganked".

 

Now, WoW areas are hubfest. And this game has always been a hubfest.

 

Only way world PvP can be terrible is if there is no world PvP.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Tiaa

[Jalez]

DAoC had it right.. WoW world PvP was awful when it first came out, you guys seem to forget WoW when it was still building.

 

^^^^^^THIS

 

Im all for WoW players wanting Open World PvP....its much better than begging for arenas.......that being said, DAoC World RvR is the standard bearer for open pvp.

 

I just reactivated my DAoC account last night.....huge battles everywhere,1vs1's...8vs8, 22vs12, 4vs3....etcetc....A huge 200 man Albion zerg attacking Hibernia with castles on Fire all over the map......in one night DAoC reminded me why its the best. This is why Guild Wars 2 is copying ALOT of DAoC....they know the PvP will be great.

 

If SWtoR wouod implement just 20% of DAoC's endgame PvP. people would be praising them on these forums once they got to experience intense meaningful fights like that. And ofc Character Progression is the key...but it shouldnt be pvp for gear...it should be pvp for new abilities/titles/and e-peen

Edited May 6, 2012 by Jalez

[Kunda]

WoW was the last western MMO to have true World PvP and it won't comeback

due to developers making games like this now.

 

The onus is on the player base to engage in world pvp. There is nothing prohibiting a TM/SS event from occuring again in WoW. If people truly enjoyed world PvP they'd engage in it.

[karnyboy]

Ilum would have been great if they just made it where you had to control the nodes in order... IE you can't control central assault without first controling northern assault as empire or southern assault as republic. That way people would have to actually push the other team across the map, instead of simply taking a speeder behind them and ninjaing everything.

 

The biggest problem Ilum had was that it was huge... but filled with empty nothingness. That and the fact that the Hero Engine can't handle having more than 16 people in combat at any given time.

 

 

This would also be alleviated if they had a 64bit client, instead of running 2 exe's to circumvent the limitations of a 32 bit client. Probably less crashing too.

 

To the OP, wow, you are a douchebag. You're that guy that sits in his computer that hates his life and wants to make others miserable as you are.

There is a reason why they kill world pvp in successful MMO's you are why. I like to pvp, but you take it to a whole new level of low. I've seen your kind for years, and there's a reason why the games you play that support that never really make headline news. Your niche is so small.

[Kunkoh]

DAoC had it right.. WoW world PvP was awful when it first came out, you guys seem to forget WoW when it was still building.

^ this.

That's one thing I do miss about DAoC, was the PvP.

1. It had the huge/epic pvp battles that even WoW can't do - 200 vs 100 vs 80.. (yes about 300 people) in one small area at one time, all fighting over a keep (castle) that was intrinsically important to your sides prosperity (not a BG/WZ that resets)

2. Which meant that PvP meant something more than just a title. Holding that keep during a massive siege, helped protect your side's interest (controlling relics) that aided your side by boosting dps. In addition to bragging rights.

3. Also being able to claim those said keeps with your guild meant you were invested in the world environment, which even wow couldn't come close to. The keep meant something, it was YOUR keep, your guilds keep, to protect. The alliance feature w/ other guilds assisted in this.

4. And it also had the small roving pvp (8 V 8): elite hardened pvp teams (8 man/woman) that would often go against multiple groups or constantly search for each other, and who were very useful for intercepting the relic run groups.

 

Lots of PvP that mattered! (the game had other issues, but the PvP was spot on)

[EugeneYap]

Actually wow pvp still fails, I always enjoy griefing players with my mage/druid who try to camp on my alt dead body or always ganks me. Even when they run to their outpost or town I still can gank them with stealth and insane burst dmg and also thanks to flying mounts/transform I can make a fast get away or just hovering at the dead body while the NPCs can't reach me.

 

All they can do is roll same faction as me and rage at me. When that happens I just hit the report button and get him suspended for a week.

 

True story

 

I duno about the rest but I find this very abusive even I enjoyed it

Edited May 6, 2012 by EugeneYap