SWTOR Open World PvP? WoW had it right!

[majahlaza]

I miss World PvP, I hate to compare to WOW but they were great at making sure leveling areas were going to be largely populated by BOTH factions, and had many quests which lead the char into the same area for both sides, I chose to roll a PVP server for a reason instead of PVE but I feel the difference between a PVP and PVE server is abysmal, Why does it even matter if you hardly ever run into the opposing faction. If you are on a PVE server then you can still do your quest and not have to worry about dealing with the opposing faction but you can socialize take turns killing mobs or doing dailys etc... But give us people on PVP servers some World PVP. Isn't this a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME, Tell me then why I leveled my Sage from 1-50 there was no more than 2 people on a planet on any given time and this was on a standard server mind you.. I only encountered enemy players four times on my grind to 50. This is a HUGE issue for PVP servers IMO, This game feels like a single player game with a couple warzones and a chat area. (The fleet)

 

I can't even tell you how many PVP encounters I had in the barrens, stv, etc and how much fun I had running around with my buddies ganking kids and then getting ganked and camped.... Sometimes we would do the ganking and sometimes you would be the one getting ganked! But God damnet it was exciting! I would literally stay up for HOURS running around noob areas killing them and the FP and then they would ask there guilds for help or log onto an alt to help and before you knew it you had 5/6 people chasing me and my buddy around and killing then we would gather some friends and it would escalate, it was fun it was exciting and it was competitive.

 

Several Thoughts/Ideals to boost Open world pvp

 

 

1,They need to centralize the locations of Op's, Quests for both factions.

 

Anyone remember running into an enemy guild at Karazhan and trying to kill them before they could summon more guild members or waiting till the rest of them showed up?

 

2. Incentive for World PvP

With 1.2 coming out and valor being basically made useless along with Ilum being pointless. There is now even less incentive to want to pvp. Although I feel real PVPers do it for the sheer excitement and joy from killing an enemy player I feel so much more ****** killing another player and stalking a player or know that I need to keep an eye out during my quest because I might be getting stalked.... then killing S.O.A. once a week.

 

World pvp is SO much more rewarding then WZ's and ruining a kids day by repeatedly camping his dead corpse till he logged, brought joy to my face as I would click away countless hours into the night, that game instilled emotion in me, I have never been laughing so hard, raging so hard, or trying so hard as I did when doing World PVP. This game feels boring and repetitive to me pretty much I have to PVP in four different maps and the game modes are boring and some are ridiculously favored to certain classes like Huttball, Icould literally play WSG all day everyday and have a blast doing so, whereas to SWTOR I have no preference to a particular WZ because they're all just "meh" WOW you had to pull me away from the screen or my mom would unplug our electricity because I would sneak on and play till the early hours of the morning on school nights when I was a kid... Now it may have been I got so much joy out of this game because I was alot younger but in this game I find myself logging out early all the time and kinda just standing around waiting for either a raid or a pvp que to pop because my server pop is so low...

 

Anyways would like to hear your thought's/Ideals on what we can do to better the World PvP in our game.

[Goretzu]

 

2. Incentive for World PvP

With 1.2 coming out and valor being basically made useless along with Ilum being pointless. There is now even less incentive to want to pvp. Although I feel real PVPers do it for the sheer excitement and joy from killing an enemy player I feel so much more ****** killing another player and stalking a player or know that I need to keep an eye out during my quest because I might be getting stalked.... then killing S.O.A. once a week.

 

 

One decent, functional and fun RvR basin would make a huge difference to SWTOR.

[hchsiao]

Wait. ..WOW has open world pvp?

 

Do You mean wintergrasp and Tol Barad that people only fight for it because they need the raid boss there?

or

Do you mean the faction leader raid because ppl need to get their black war bear mount?

or

Halaa cus people need their black talbuk?

or

attack opposite faction capital at 2 am in the morning and de clear it is successful operation.

 

SS / Tarren Mill pvp is no longer the case since blizzard killed it, Do people harass x-road anymore now and day? Even back in 2005 "open world pvp" isn't that big of deal in those 2 location. It was always 1 or 2 lone rogues kill quest givers or noob tried to organize raid but group give up shortly after opposite faction arrive.

[majahlaza]

One decent, functional and fun RvR basin would make a huge difference to SWTOR.

 

A capture the flag type game mode for RvR would be cool but honestly I'm pretty burnt out on the whole "Capture and Control a node" ideals. Do any games come to mind in particular as a good model for them to go off of? My only other MMO was WoW and I only played up to BC so I don't really have a good ideal for any RvR.

[majahlaza]

Wait. ..WOW has open world pvp?

 

Do You mean wintergrasp and Tol Barad that people only fight for it because they need the raid boss there?

or

Do you mean the faction leader raid because ppl need to

or

attack opposite faction capital at 2 am in the morning and de clear it is successful operation.

 

SS / Tarren Mill pvp is no longer the case since blizzard killeget their black war bear mount?

or

Halaa cus people need their black talbuk?d it, Do people harass x-road anymore now and day? Even back in 2005 "open world pvp" isn't that big of deal in those 2 location. It was always 1 or 2 lone rogues kill quest givers or noob tried to organize raid but group give up shortly after opposite faction arrive.

 

Well I played WoW up to end of BC/ Beginning of WOTLK. So I'm referring to a much different WoW experience then the one you are describing where you could go T Mill / SS or Xroads and wreak havoc and if you wanted to go find trouble and kill players you knew where to go and it was never that far away where as to SWTOR you have to search the map aimlessly till you start finding imperial guards guarding an outpost or whatever there is no signs of any kind and honestly if I wanted to go raise a little trouble I don't even think anyone would come (Due to low server pop) or I wouldn't even know really where to look in the first place and they're is no faction leader that you can kill or no incentive for that at least WoW encouraged people to do things like that.

Edited May 5, 2012 by majahlaza

[Lord_Karsk]

Flying mounts killed open world pvp i belive. Or so they say.

[Jalez]

If you really think WoW "Owpen World PvP" is good.....my gawd man....I know WoW is a poplular game so posts like this dont suprise me...but DAoC by far has the best system for Open RvR, not even debatable. DAoC's ENTIRE endgame is open world rvr. Pretty sure open pvp in WoW was done cuz you got bored with questing or bgs....it sure wasnt the endgame

 

That being said......SWtoR needs open world rvr by July 1st....any later and there screwed by GW2 bgs and huge 250vs250 battles over castles and keeps....and open world rvr smallman roaming will be competitive as well

[Sraom]

Well, WoW had it right for a while.

 

After all, a two-faction-system will ultimately have faction imbalance and kill world PvP.

and then in BC came with flying mounts.

[mechintel]

Ilum would have been great if they just made it where you had to control the nodes in order... IE you can't control central assault without first controling northern assault as empire or southern assault as republic. That way people would have to actually push the other team across the map, instead of simply taking a speeder behind them and ninjaing everything.

 

The biggest problem Ilum had was that it was huge... but filled with empty nothingness. That and the fact that the Hero Engine can't handle having more than 16 people in combat at any given time.

[majahlaza]

If you really think WoW "Owpen World PvP" is good.....my gawd man....I know WoW is a poplular game so posts like this dont suprise me...but DAoC by far has the best system for Open RvR, not even debatable. DAoC's ENTIRE endgame is open world rvr. Pretty sure open pvp in WoW was done cuz you got bored with questing or bgs....it sure wasnt the endgame

 

That being said......SWtoR needs open world rvr by July 1st....any later and there screwed by GW2 bgs and huge 250vs250 battles over castles and keeps....and open world rvr smallman roaming will be competitive as well

 

If you scroll up a little bit you could see my post....but here you go.

 

A capture the flag type game mode for RvR would be cool but honestly I'm pretty burnt out on the whole "Capture and Control a node" ideals. Do any games come to mind in particular as a good model for them to go off of? My only other MMO was WoW and I only played up to BC so I don't really have a good ideal for any RvR.

 

Your ideal of Open World PvP is better than mine then...I'm simply off going what I know and I know WoW is the most succesfull MMO of all time to date, and is the only other MMO I've played besides SWG for a brief month or two. I can't compare it to DAoC because I've never played it.

[Tiaa]

Wait. ..WOW has open world pvp?

 

SS / Tarren Mill pvp is no longer the case since blizzard killed it, Do people harass x-road anymore now and day? Even back in 2005 "open world pvp" isn't that big of deal in those 2 location. It was always 1 or 2 lone rogues kill quest givers or noob tried to organize raid but group give up shortly after opposite faction arrive.

 

Yes Blizzard did kill World PvP because of who rolled PvP servers and couldn't handle it.

 

I remember quite well just how big the faction fights would get. Especially before everyone

became lame and rolled Horde. At that time, Horde wasn't the most popular faction but we had

numbers to zerg places too.

 

WoW was the last western MMO to have true World PvP and it won't comeback

due to developers making games like this now.

[majahlaza]

Ilum would have been great if they just made it where you had to control the nodes in order... IE you can't control central assault without first controling northern assault as empire or southern assault as republic. That way people would have to actually push the other team across the map, instead of simply taking a speeder behind them and ninjaing everything.

 

The biggest problem Ilum had was that it was huge... but filled with empty nothingness. That and the fact that the Hero Engine can't handle having more than 16 people in combat at any given time.

 

I thought if it was a little bit bigger than Arathi Basin. Ilum would have been a BLAST!! Yeah talk about lag fest anytime a raid group tried to take over Ilum....

[revampt]

If they want to promote world pvp they should just give you commends and valor for any kill anywhere in your level range, and make daily for rep and imp in the same exact place same quest hub. Or just make a pvp daily like rift that rotates planets and u need a certain amount of world kills.

[Tiaa]

If they want to promote world pvp they should just give you commends and valor for any kill anywhere in your level range, and make daily for rep and imp in the same exact place same quest hub. Or just make a pvp daily like rift that rotates planets and u need a certain amount of world kills.

 

Exactly.

 

But they don't want to do that.

 

They want to centralize it and make it into a grindfest.

 

Ilum was a very good example of that as they literally tried to force players to the same spot.

[Calitri]

I would just change the rulesets of every server, where all the questing areas are just PvE areas. And add PvP objectives/areas to each world that isn't 1 faction only. I know there's a big F anything that reminds them of WoW crowd out there, but get off your SW:G disgruntled/ex WoW player pedestle and hear me out.

 

Some things the game did right, like eastern wastes and wintergrasp, think of this. One of the biggest complaints about this game is the absolute lack of open world PvP. Currently there's what? 8 planets where both the republic and empire can run into each other. Add open world objectives every few hours on each world, give 50's an incentive to participate in each with bolster for the lower levels who happen to be passing thru for the area. And walla you go from having your PvP options in the game go from waiting to get a que up from one of 4 wz's, while staring at something in fleet. To going out into the world and competing in the open world for the rolling events.

 

I don't know about you, but that would make me keep playing for sure after GW2 comes out for sure. Though i'm not going to hold my breath on anything like this getting done lol.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Calitri

[mechintel]

WoW was the last western MMO to have true World PvP and it won't comeback

due to developers making games like this now.

 

WoW had world pvp for what? Half a year? Then they released Battlegrounds turning PvP into a minigame.

[Dooger]

Yes Blizzard did kill World PvP because of who rolled PvP servers and couldn't handle it.

 

I remember quite well just how big the faction fights would get. Especially before everyone

became lame and rolled Horde. At that time, Horde wasn't the most popular faction but we had

numbers to zerg places too.

 

WoW was the last western MMO to have true World PvP and it won't comeback

due to developers making games like this now.

 

No Warhammer was the last mmo to have world pvp, wow really never had it. You actually have to capture zones in warhammer to progress to attack the other realm's city. The end game is world pvp in warhammer, not pveing raiding

[mechintel]

No Warhammer was the last mmo to have world pvp, wow really never had it. You actually have to capture zones in warhammer to progress to attack the other realm's city. The end game is world pvp in warhammer, not pveing raiding

 

Everyone knows DAoC was the last MMO to care about PvP of any type.

[Tiaa]

WoW had world pvp for what? Half a year? Then they released Battlegrounds turning PvP into a minigame.

 

WoW had World PvP after that as well.

 

It took a little more time for it to really become void.

 

As I am sure people such as myself remember Blackrock quite well.

[Tiaa]

No Warhammer was the last mmo to have world pvp, wow really never had it. You actually have to capture zones in warhammer to progress to attack the other realm's city. The end game is world pvp in warhammer, not pveing raiding

 

Well, I was in the biggest and top guild Order side called "Paranor" on my server Tower of Doom.

 

We basically owned that server.

 

Yes, the PvP seiges could get big but we also know that's because Mythic advertised what they felt WoW lacked to lure the "hardcore" PvPers there. The PvP was still centalized and the world was crafted almost as linear as SWTOR.

 

PvP in Warhammer was only big for a month. After that tons of people were quitting and server merges began.

[Goretzu]

A capture the flag type game mode for RvR would be cool but honestly I'm pretty burnt out on the whole "Capture and Control a node" ideals. Do any games come to mind in particular as a good model for them to go off of? My only other MMO was WoW and I only played up to BC so I don't really have a good ideal for any RvR.

 

Well there is only so many methods that can be used, eventually there is just no new stuff left to invent.

 

But something like found in Warhammer Online or Planetside would/could work.

 

 

Having said that with enough development SWTOR RvR could basically BE

with a SW skin.

[majahlaza]

I still think that there needs to be alot more areas where enemy factions run into eachother...

[Azurian]

The most fun I've ever had in MMO PvP was in Everquest when we competed against other guilds for the rights to dungeons and Boss Spawns. If you were on the other side and wanted it, you had to be stealthy and fast.

 

But with TOR, I like you can go hunting on PvP planets and can do it when you want to. However if you do go hunting, theres a high possibility you will run into someone on the opposite side doing PvE. And not sure about you, but most PvPers I know think it's a lame type of PvP to take advantage of others who are in battle with PvE mobs or weaked from PvE battle.

 

So I could see them having high-end dungeons on each side that has unique drops that would encourage people to camp and fight over. Or perhaps a neutral objective between the two teritories that both sides can go for.

[Mayams]

The simple act of putting the questing and grinding/gathering zones of the two factions in one area would go a long way to promote PvP.

 

We all remember STV and the struggles that forced the communities to socialize and work together because of the ever present threat of getting jumped. It went beyond that though, as a flower picker (herbalist) part of my "job" in preparation for the weekly raids was to collect the mats to supply the consumables. If I stepped into a zone that already had a few of the opposition there that picked a fight, of course a call to arms went out and it would escalate as far as needed for as long as needed. And really these types of conflicts could kick off for any reason at anytime, the real reason they were pursued though was really for the fun of the PvP.

 

Even apart from the failures of "organized PvP" in this games design, that potential for these random PvP battles has been essentially eliminated in this game. Even if one were to go out looking specifically to incite these kinds of events, the sheer amount of time for forces to converge on whatever area of whatever planet would be prohibitive.

 

In my opinion WoW didn't do a whole lot to promote open world PvP but nor did they do anything to prevent it as seems to be the case here. They simply (initially at least) created a game world environment conduscive to open world battles springing up organically. Of course then they shot themselves and that aspect in the foot a few times, finally culminating in the death blow of allowing players to literally que for any possible activity outside of gathering while sitting in their main city with no reason to leave unless they wanted to.

[iiell]

WOW had it right? The only world PVP WOW had for a long time really was South Shore vs Tarren Mill. You are comparing a MMO with multiple expansion to a recently released MMO? Come on, give Bioware a break!

 

They need to focus on server migrations and cross server queues first and foremost.