As if Mara's weren't overpowered enough

[Tenthletter]

4 jumped on me and all cast ravage at once. that was the single most painful experience in my TOR PvP life.

 

Yeah, I would think that being Ravaged by four men at once would be painful.

[Sorcerix]

Well, tbh you won't be doing much "running" after being leaped and force-choked and melee'ed because of the stupendous amount of slows / snares in this game - you'll more likely be crawling away from the melee. That's when you use your single beloved knockback (if you're a pyro merc) and pray for a heal.

 

And to the guys who say you should "turn and run": that's pro advice to turn your back on a melee... rather strafe I'd say, while still pew-pewing him and slowing him also.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Sorcerix

[exphryl]

No, they're saying that if the reason you're moving away from the dual-wielder is "to get out of range of that nasty 3 sec channel that will hurt a lot", backpedaling is not the answer. Of course there's times and reasons where walking backwards is exactly what you want to do. "To escape ravage/master strike" isn't one of them.

 

I do find with Ravage / Master Strike the final hit is near 10M though (Since I can still flameburst before taking another step back at the distance of the last hit is why I am basing it on that). so in a lot of cases, if they aren't Carnage Spec for the Root it can be a bit difficult to just run away. (Unless you start moving at the start of the cast).

 

I think Ravage in itself isn't the issue, Carnage Ravage however is a bit incredible. Considering each hit can proc an extra attack and the final hit can hit like a truck it's a very devastating attack. Add in the times you can Gore and get Damage buff going it's pretty fun to watch what our main guild Mara can do.

 

Note: i'm not saying nerf it. Just adding to the conversation.

Edited April 24, 2012 by exphryl

[Oscibi]

One time, this marauder popped all of his cooldowns and flew into the sky. He spent the entire match cart-wheeling in the air launching missiles with lightsaber-spears attached and killing everyone.

 

Learn to play. Marauders have two abilities that involve a saber throw, one is an execute, the other applies a healing debuff. Only the first hits for very hard at all, and shouldn't outright kill you.

 

This guy plays a mara.

[dschlan]

This one time in SWTOR...Bioware left a class alone til the second content patch, buffed 2 of its specs so they could be viable, and slightly nerfed the most used spec.

 

Only reason anyone think's it's OP now is because everything else has been nerfed so hard. Sent/Mara has been left alone for the most part since launch...you know...back when people thought it was one of the worst classes...

[Clono]

First of all, Marauders and Sentinels can be taken down very quickly. Such as if we cannot activate our absorb thing (sacrifice 50% health for 99% damage reduction) in time.

There have been a lot of times where I have been killed by Imperials focusing on me because I deal so much damage.

If you're thinking Operatives and Scoundrels as the Rogue class from WoW, think again. We are the Rogues, we just don't have stealth.

And "back pedaling", you DO NOT run backwards, run at an angle so that you can still hit the Mara/Sentinel while they're chasing you. We have a 50% slow, but it costs 2 focus, and most Sents/Mara (myself included) will try to get hits off before we slow you down.

And finally, yes, we are slightly OP, but we aren't invincible.

[Rouncer]

Turning and running? They just chase me down and kill me. They outrun me easily. At least by backpedaling (better?) I can inflict some damage before they kill me.

 

 

By strafing away you can still do damage while getting out of melee range.

 

Leap does minimal damage and comes with up to a 3 second root, half of which is used up by the act of leaping. Force Choke is a channeled ability that doesn't do a lot of damage on it's own and which you broke the channel through tenacity. You say that you had lost 1/4 of your life at this point, which doesn't make a lot of sense as you have described less then 2k worth of damage if everything crit and even then that would depend on your being slow with Tenacity such that the second tick occurred before you broke the channel

 

Backpedaling means he stayed in melee range such that you would eat his smash but even that isn't enough damage to get you into vicious throw range since you broke the choke with Tenacity so he couldn't have had full stacks of Shockwave (only a rage specced would open with choke unless you were standing in acid or over the fire). For the sake of the argument though let's say he had 4 stacks built which was why he was able to get you low enough to eat the throw . Smash is an untargeted AE ability that has a very limited range. If you had strafed away instead of backpedaling there is a very good chance that you would have outranged it and taken no damage, especially since you broke the channel early screwing up that marauder's timing. Thing is that even with a 4 stack of shockwave, the smash plus the leap plus the tick or two of choke just isn't enough damage to take anyone from full to under 30% which is a requirement for vicious throw.

 

Going to make a big assumption here that you aren't trolling and that the events happened the way you are describing them. Doesn't it seem more likely that the marauder was choking you to keep you still so that one of the marauder's allies could also attack you while you were being choked. That there was a lot more damage coming in then would be possible from just the marauder from when the choke started till when that vicious throw finished you off. It's the only way that I can think of for why you would go from full to under 30% in such a small period of time.

 

Recollections are inherently faulty which is why a combat log validating your description of the events is really necessary if you want others to believe you as to the chain of events.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Rouncer

[Tenthletter]

I do find with Ravage / Master Strike the final hit is near 10M though (Since I can still flameburst before taking another step back at the distance of the last hit is why I am basing it on that). so in a lot of cases, if they aren't Carnage Spec for the Root it can be a bit difficult to just run away. (Unless you start moving at the start of the cast).

 

I think Ravage in itself isn't the issue, Carnage Ravage however is a bit incredible. Considering each hit can proc an extra attack and the final hit can hit like a truck it's a very devastating attack. Add in the times you can Gore and get Damage buff going it's pretty fun to watch what our main guild Mara can do.

 

Note: i'm not saying nerf it. Just adding to the conversation.

 

Yeah, Carnage is by far my favorite of the three specs, mostly because of all the roots. I still run Annihilation most of the time for the Self Heals though (usually queue with no Healer). Can't wait for Dual Spec so I can run both depending on the WZ that pops. Never liked Rage, gimmicky and easily countered.

 

As for the backpedal vs. turning and running, both are bad. Should be strafing away and not giving your back to an opponent. Backpedaling may be 'easier' when setting up knockbacks, but it's not faster, nor is it better, than strafing and turning with the keyboard. Maybe we should debate clicking vs. keybinding next.

[anticept]

When you walk backwards you walk at half speed, when you strafe you run at full speed. But in all honesty is just something people pretending to be super elite pvp'ers like to accuse people of, like keyboard turning,

 

You forgot that they´ve keybinded all their abilities and they use fatal1ty´s headsets. You´ll never be as rad and cool as they if you don´t remember all the trademarks.

[HurricaneXXIV]

You could nerf sent damage by 20% across the board and you will still run into the same problems. Bioware has now run into the issue of you can't balance a game around non rated WZs.

 

Sages will always get destroyed by sents, they did so before the patch as well. You have one escape, that makes your class very easy to kill one vs one for a sent or agent. In rated WZs you will see more use of guards and hopefully CC by teamates to help healers live and move. Without this change half the WZ's would have ended in a stalemate with 3 healer teams sitting on a void star door unkillable. If anything sages have a class issue of only one get away as opposed to the 4-5 my gunslinger has.

 

Sents became much stronger not just through buffs but more so through the shorter life spans of people. A 5 second 99% shield was never mentioned when people and tanks could live for 50 seconds vs a sent.

 

As agents and slingers get buffed sents will have a much tougher life, if a sent, shadow or agent is running free on a healer and not being attacked by range your team isn't play right. Apply preasure and a sent will not live much longer than there 5 second "God Mode" button.

 

In a game that has 2-3 nodes you will rarely 1v1 anyone and you will see alot more group pvp. One thing I will mention is most sents do not have the stun effect on throwing their saber.

[FourPawnBenoni]

By strafing away you can still do damage while getting out of melee range.

 

Leap does minimal damage and comes with up to a 3 second root, half of which is used up by the act of leaping. Force Choke is a channeled ability that doesn't do a lot of damage on it's own and which you broke the channel through tenacity. You say that you had lost 1/4 of your life at this point, which doesn't make a lot of sense as you have described less then 2k worth of damage if everything crit and even then that would depend on your being slow with Tenacity such that the second tick occurred before you broke the channel

 

Backpedaling means he stayed in melee range such that you would eat his smash but even that isn't enough damage to get you into vicious throw range since you broke the choke with Tenacity so he couldn't have had full stacks of Shockwave (only a rage specced would open with choke unless you were standing in acid or over the fire). For the sake of the argument though let's say he had 4 stacks built which was why he was able to get you low enough to eat the throw . Smash is an untargeted AE ability that has a very limited range. If you had strafed away instead of backpedaling there is a very good chance that you would have outranged it and taken no damage, especially since you broke the channel early screwing up that marauder's timing. Thing is that even with a 4 stack of shockwave, the smash plus the leap plus the tick or two of choke just isn't enough damage to take anyone from full to under 30% which is a requirement for vicious throw.

 

Going to make a big assumption here that you aren't trolling and that the events happened the way you are describing them. Doesn't it seem more likely that the marauder was choking you to keep you still so that one of the marauder's allies could also attack you while you were being choked. That there was a lot more damage coming in then would be possible from just the marauder from when the choke started till when that vicious throw finished you off. It's the only way that I can think of for why you would go from full to under 30% in such a small period of time.

 

Recollections are inherently faulty which is why a combat log validating your description of the events is really necessary if you want others to believe you as to the chain of events.

 

The essence of my post is accurate, I probably didn't hit tenacity THE INSTANT I was choked, and he probably didn't use IMMEDIATELY after his leap. There were probably a couple other hits involved but what I'm trying to say is that by the time I broke free and started to retreat I was down 1/4 life and he was still inflicting large damage on me at a long range...he wasn't throwing his lightsaber, he was still wielding it.

 

Still dead within 7 seconds or so I'd guess.

[Lithy]

While it may have been painful, that's not being one shotted. That's being four shotted. Just sayin'.

 

Lies mar are op and do 500% dmg and needs mad nerfsss 0:)

 

Yeah, I would think that being Ravaged by four men at once would be painful.

 

>_>;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; *hides herself away in a corner for the rest of the thread*

[Heideggar]

One time, this marauder popped all of his cooldowns and flew into the sky. He spent the entire match cart-wheeling in the air launching missiles with lightsaber-spears attached and killing everyone.

 

Learn to play. Marauders have two abilities that involve a saber throw, one is an execute, the other applies a healing debuff. Only the first hits for very hard at all, and shouldn't outright kill you.

 

What if it was a Marauder dual wielding two Juggernauts. That would explain it.

[Rouncer]

The essence of my post is accurate, I probably didn't hit tenacity THE INSTANT I was choked, and he probably didn't use IMMEDIATELY after his leap. There were probably a couple other hits involved but what I'm trying to say is that by the time I broke free and started to retreat I was down 1/4 life and he was still inflicting large damage on me at a long range...he wasn't throwing his lightsaber, he was still wielding it.

 

Still dead within 7 seconds or so I'd guess.

 

Marauder attacks, for the most part, only have a 4m range which is why so many people are harping about the backpedaling. Hitting the "S" key means you are moving at 50% speed while he is moving at 100-115% speed depending on spec which is what allows him to inflict the large damage on you.

 

Practice strafing by kiting melee mobs while holding down the right mouse button to allow you to keep them in front of you while moving at full speed away from them. It's a skill that will serve you very well in this game and many others as well.

[doctorfirepants]

Playing my trooper, guy leaps at me, stun chokes so i hit tenacity and but I've already lost 1/4 of life already...i backpeddle away and EVEN AT 15 METERS DISTANCE his lightsabers still inflict big damage (not dot) and I'm pretty much dead within 5 seconds and I have heavy armor.

 

Those are some pretty long lightsabers.

 

wow, exaggerate much? First of all, i don't know of any marauder that chokes immediately after force leaping, not to mention that combo would do nowhere near a quarter of your life, unless your total hp is like 4000. Second, your not going to backpedal away 15 meters from the marauder. Why would he just stand there and watch you walk slowly backwards. Third, no matter how much you want to believe it, even if you were that range away from him, there is no way he is going to hit you.

 

Did you ever consider that maybe there was a ranged class striking you, and that you, being obviously brain dead didn't even pay attention to him and you blamed it on some random marauder you saw fighting in the distance? Or more likely your just a ignorant troll.

[dschlan]

your not going to backpedal away 15 meters from the marauder. Why would he just stand there and watch you walk slowly backwards.

 

I do it for ***** and giggles. Backpedalers make me laugh...a lot

[mamosh]

haha nice!

 

A bad Marauder will take out half your health before dying. A good one will kill you, your healer, and your next door neighboor. However, backpedal is probably the worst thing to do against them. Strafing and turning and running away are the two best things to do.

 

made me laugh lol to bad its true

[gwrtheyn]

Playing my trooper, guy leaps at me, stun chokes so i hit tenacity and but I've already lost 1/4 of life already...i backpeddle away and EVEN AT 15 METERS DISTANCE his lightsabers still inflict big damage (not dot) and I'm pretty much dead within 5 seconds and I have heavy armor.

 

Those are some pretty long lightsabers.

 

this is called pvp lag,he is behind you,only his grafik is not

same goes the other way when you play a mele,you are on the target,not able to hit. even if he is stunned,not in range,later he "ports" back to his real pos.

 

"real" position/rotaion in not equal the pos/roatation you see em(somehow the skills etc can test vs the real pos,but the engine seem not to be able to draw em there)

[LarryRow]

Turning and running? They just chase me down and kill me. They outrun me easily. At least by backpedaling (better?) I can inflict some damage before they kill me.

 

When you are running away, you need to zig zag so they will get confused and... wait, no, that's alligators.

 

We're screwed.

[Odahviin]

One time, this marauder popped all of his cooldowns and flew into the sky. He spent the entire match cart-wheeling in the air launching missiles with lightsaber-spears attached and killing everyone.

 

Learn to play. Marauders have two abilities that involve a saber throw, one is an execute, the other applies a healing debuff. Only the first hits for very hard at all, and shouldn't outright kill you.

 

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[Trineda]

Hello everyone,

 

In order to keep the forums tidy and conversations in one place please use this thread to discuss the topic of marauders and sentinels, we will be closing this current thread. Thank You!