Tigalo Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 With 800-900 (i.e. relatively low) Expertise, I can survive 2-3 people beating on me for like a minute solid if I have a tank Guarding me, as a healer. If I am healing someone else, and no one is chain-cc'ing me, I can keep him up through 2-3 people beating on him basically forever. Any large-scale (6-8 people) fight involving 2-3 healers per side is very much a long fight, regardless of target focus. Are you guys playing the same game I am? So, what you are basically saying is: Do not bother to PvP as a healer without a pocketpettank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigalo Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Most people only PvP to get new gear. If all we got was titles and pets I'd probably never play Warzones again. Uhm... so you pvp to get new gear so you can pvp even more to get new gear? Kind of redundant IMO. I pvp for the fun of it (the fun part have been a lot less post 1.2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaoticsith Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I am actually opposed to the rollback of pvp rewards, we are now back to having 6 out of 8 ppl being scoreboard hero's at least before you actually had to try to play as a team to win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnugthreeonefive Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I'm a fully geared, solid PvP player getting top DPS 95% of the time. Short TTK is a boon to my class, but I also feel it is too short vs geared players. Needs some rebalancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koensayr Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) You've turned PvP into a twitchy mess Bioware, I really don't understand your reasoning for this? Not one person I've spoken too has been able to come up with a logical reason for you wanting to take the strategic gameplay out of PvP. I hardly think this was a mistake, for some bizarre reason you actually thought people would enjoy a more twitch based experience, which just proves how out of touch you are with your target audience and how utterly dyer your metrics are. Actually I do think it was a mistake. It seems hard to believe, but think about it. How many changes were made in one patch? Looking at the few answers they've given on the subject, I don't think it was intentional. I really think they just made so many simultaneous changes that some of it wasn't fully tested, and it resulted in TTK being shorter than intended. So how do you step it back if that's the case? Can't just go back to pre 1.2 numbers can you? You can't, because if it is a case of it being a result of so many changes, you could be messing with some of the stuff they did want to see out of 1.2. No, I think this was a case of oops, and it's going to take some time to figure out how to backstep it without just upping health levels or tossing in a defensive buff. That's my opinion anyways. If Gabe or someone wants to come out and say "Yeah, we want a more burst-centric game" then I'll jump on the bandwagon. Until then, I've learned after years of going through WoW patches, that the majority of changes from patches, aren't really intended, but are more a reaction to the domino effect that happens when you make alterations to class balances or abilities in general. So many possible consequences from just altering damage on one ability. What happens when you make a hundred changes, or in the case of 1.2 too many for a player to count or even properly list in a patch report? Huge chain of dominos. Like I said just my opinion. Edited April 21, 2012 by Koensayr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoredJuneBug Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 The fights are short, sharp, and soon over and that's how fights should be in PvP. So essentially we should all roll up whatever class has the best burst damage as our PvP alt, because everything else is meaningless at this point? Tatooine currently provides an excellent viewpoint into how many global cooldowns are needed to kill a player, assuming you play on a PvP server. And it's not many I assure you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnoams Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Pre 1.2 people complained that the ttk was too long, so they changed things and now people complain its too short. Maybe there's a happy medium but honestly, its pvp, the developers will constantly throw nerfs/buffs to attempt to appease, but nobody will ever be happy with it. Go to any mmo forums with pvp and they're all filled with complaints. In a game where someone has to lose, someone will always be unhappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I would love to see TTK reduced to that of 1.1 Um pass, took way to long to ghost someone unless they had **** gear.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anstalt Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I understand and agree that pre1.2, healers were somewhat overpowered and thus time-to-kill was too long. TTK being too long was purely a result of healers being able to keep so many people alive, even more so when they had a pocket healer. Post 1.2, I also agree that TTK is too short. I think Bioware should have simply left pvp with the healing nerf only. The healing nerf would have reduced the god-mode that was a healer-tank pair (which, as a tank i loved lol) whilst keeping TTK relatively long. In other words, objectives would have kept on changing hands quicker than they were, matches would have been more fluid but it would have come down more to skill and teamwork rather than who starts their burst rotation first. Having said that, I play an inf shadow, I have tons of burst so still loving 1.2 lol. I just feel sorry for tanks and healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeet Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 Pre 1.2 people complained that the ttk was too long, so they changed things and now people complain its too short. Maybe there's a happy medium but honestly, its pvp, the developers will constantly throw nerfs/buffs to attempt to appease, but nobody will ever be happy with it. Go to any mmo forums with pvp and they're all filled with complaints. In a game where someone has to lose, someone will always be unhappy. The only complaining I saw pre 1.2 about the length of TTK, was a direct result of healing being so strong. Not people complaining because DPS were taking other DPS down too fast, it was all because of healing. Besides the term TTK was only coined post 1.2 - that should tell you something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaarsa Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Besides the term TTK was only coined post 1.2 - that should tell you something. This tell me that people are sheeps following anyone who even remotely resembles leader and are ready to QQ about everything, it is enough to throw them a bone. 1 guy post article with TTK term and suddenly TTK is in every other thread in pvp forum. Seriously, people should play more and post less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeet Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 This tell me that people are sheeps following anyone who even remotely resembles leader and are ready to QQ about everything, it is enough to throw them a bone. 1 guy post article with TTK term and suddenly TTK is in every other thread in pvp forum. Seriously, people should play more and post less. Yes someone highlighted an issue and used the term TTK. It's a good acronym that sums up the issue perfectly, why wouldn't people use it? You're acting like the issue doesn't exist and that people are just throwing the term TTK out of their butts - which is absurd. TTK is real and it is a real issue since 1.2, which the Devs have now acknowledged, or do you forget that? I think you just have something against people using acronyms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaarsa Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Yes someone highlighted an issue and used the term TTK. It's a good acronym that sums up the issue perfectly, why wouldn't people use it? You're acting like the issue doesn't exist and that people are just throwing the term TTK out of their butts - which is absurd. TTK is real and it is a real issue since 1.2, which the Devs have now acknowledged, or do you forget that? I think you just have something against people using acronyms My issue is fact that I dont see this TTK issue. Sure, healers were nerfed, god-mode turned off, some of them rage-quitted or rage-rerolled/specced, there is less healers in WZ, people die faster. But when you were focused by 3 dps before 1.2 you were toast if you were not guarded, enemies not taunted and healer didnt take care of you. Now - you are toasted more or less the same. People ARE throwing TTK out of their butts, this is the problem here. Seriously, what has changed besides healers nerf? 1,76% increased damage thanks to expertise change? Damage buff to 1 (one) marauder ability (if said marauder is anninhilation ofc, most of them are)? Bugged heatseekers (which was fixed now)? What else increased damage so much? Oh I think I know what else has changed. Instead of being full BM with 700 expertise against people with 0-300, even fresh lev 50 now have 900 against your 1200. So, maybe gear gap was partialy closed + less healers = faster kills? Basicaly, when I read those TTK threads and later play some WZ I seriously dont know what are you people talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Yes someone highlighted an issue and used the term TTK. It's a good acronym that sums up the issue perfectly, why wouldn't people use it? You're acting like the issue doesn't exist and that people are just throwing the term TTK out of their butts - which is absurd. TTK is real and it is a real issue since 1.2, which the Devs have now acknowledged, or do you forget that? I think you just have something against people using acronyms The dev's never said there was a issue with TTK lol, they fixed heatseakers and such, its working as intended, and 90% of my guild of 50 active pvpers agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeet Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) So GeorgZoeller didn't say this? © There has been some level of inflation in the overall DPS budget of the game as result of Legacy benefits and other changes. Over time, these add up and as it stands, we have established that the global burst potential across the game is slightly higher than we are targeting. We will likely take some minor to moderate action about this in the near future by adjustments to the magnitude and duration of offensive relics (longer duration, reduced magnitude, identical power amortized over time). (d) When faced with groups of enemies, stacking debuffs can result a real TTK issue. We are in process of revamping the debuff system in the game to reduce the impact of multi player debuff stacking on TTK. Trolls be trollin' or just not reading Edited April 21, 2012 by Sweeet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos_Distortion Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Why don't you adjust each class individually instead of hurting all classes (especially those with very little competitive dps) with an unnecessary change to relics? Bioware likes to take the easy way out, haven't you noticed yet? They nerf global game mechanics without taking into consideration that some classes need those mechanics to be on par with other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Bioware likes to take the easy way out, haven't you noticed yet? They nerf global game mechanics without taking into consideration that some classes need those mechanics to be on par with other classes. rofl like what? class balance here is one of the best on any mmo and its been said in dang near every thread i have read, so please enlighten us oh wise one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaarsa Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 So GeorgZoeller didn't say this? Trolls be trollin' or just not reading OMG they will nerf relics, this will increase your precious TTK so much!!!!!!!11!!! Those 2 marauders killing you in "2 GCD" as half of pvp forum claims will seriously suffer after changing stacking debuffs, because you know, they dont have even 1. Now seriously, they read forum ,see all this whinning and decided to write something. Cant blame them, I do not envy their job. Nerfing relics will not change much (2 min CD, they are not responsible for much) and stacking debuffs from merc were already taken care off partially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMunny Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 The dev's never said there was a issue with TTK lol, they fixed heatseakers and such, its working as intended, and 90% of my guild of 50 active pvpers agree... And there you have it folks.. The 90% of his guild has spoken! /case closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laylyn Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 My issue is fact that I dont see this TTK issue. Sure, healers were nerfed, god-mode turned off, some of them rage-quitted or rage-rerolled/specced, there is less healers in WZ, people die faster. But when you were focused by 3 dps before 1.2 you were toast if you were not guarded, enemies not taunted and healer didnt take care of you. Now - you are toasted more or less the same. People ARE throwing TTK out of their butts, this is the problem here. Seriously, what has changed besides healers nerf? 1,76% increased damage thanks to expertise change? Damage buff to 1 (one) marauder ability (if said marauder is anninhilation ofc, most of them are)? Bugged heatseekers (which was fixed now)? What else increased damage so much? Oh I think I know what else has changed. Instead of being full BM with 700 expertise against people with 0-300, even fresh lev 50 now have 900 against your 1200. So, maybe gear gap was partialy closed + less healers = faster kills? Basicaly, when I read those TTK threads and later play some WZ I seriously dont know what are you people talking about. Equalization created an environment some people don't like. Not everyone practices sportsmanship or wants a fair game. Some want to hide behind gear. Some want to hide behind broken, imbalanced mechanics that steer people toward the favored classes and the favored specs. Those players are now faced with the environment they created for their opponents when the mechanics were more broken. Fixing the current resolve issues will create the same scream fest from those that benefited most. The "I get sixty individual kills farming, while the entire other team got 2 total" war zones was only causing the newer players to quit. We have longer ques now and they just kept getting longer prior to 1.2. Now with recruit gear and some newer players having a chance we might keep the pvp current base or actually increase it. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Equalization created an environment some people don't like. Not everyone practices sportsmanship or wants a fair game. Some want to hide behind gear. Some want to hide behind broken, imbalanced mechanics that steer people toward the favored classes and the favored specs. Those players are now faced with the environment they created for their opponents when the mechanics were more broken. Fixing the current resolve issues will create the same scream fest from those that benefited most. The "I get sixty individual kills farming, while the entire other team got 2 total" war zones was only causing the newer players to quit. We have longer ques now and they just kept getting longer prior to 1.2. Now with recruit gear and some newer players having a chance we might keep the pvp current base or actually increase it. Time will tell. You're ques got longer when ppl came back for 1.2? i think you're the first, sorry to hear it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laylyn Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) You're ques got longer when ppl came back for 1.2? i think you're the first, sorry to hear it... Nope, they started to go twice as quick and they've been running faster than the month prior to 1.2 ever since. I had meant longer than the were the first month of the game. They had been up to 20 minutes during prime time prior to 1.2. They run about 5 now. During launch they'd que every 2 minutes on even the Imperial side (Blue side was instant then). Edited April 21, 2012 by Laylyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croza Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I like PVP better now. 12 minute voidstars where i did 600k damage and got 3 kills, that wasn't fun. haha, exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeypesci Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 The rewards are now better but again you're ruined it with expertise making gear and not skill more effective. It shouldn't be about gear, it should be about skill so drop the expertise. And the TTK now seems to be way off what you originally said on release that you want fights to last long, so there'd be tactics. Now they're isn't and again gear and expertise are ruining it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croza Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Yeeeah... Im a PT tank, who really loves PvE, and used to love PvP. However, after 1.2, I dont find it fun as a tank. Pre-1.2, I could stay alive long enough vs 1-2 dps'ers (depending on how skilled) to call for help in voidstar or civil war. Post-1.2, I can hold my own for ~8-15 seconds vs 1 dpser (again, depending on skill, and class now). Figured this was just me, as I have stacked quite a bit of PvE gear (needed endurance because of guard). Only have three BM pieces, and if I swap over to recruit, I drop insane amounts of hp, which renders me even more useless (Guard a healer at 15k hp = me dropping 50% of my hp from healer dying = me beeing piss easy to kill). However, I talked to some other tanks, and they have the same experience as me. Three of the five i talked to have swapped to dps, two have stopped doing pvp until we are useful in pvp again. Me, well, I've stopped pvp'ing at the 50 bracket until I get my operative to 50 (can at least see if it is possible to heal at all in warzones.) If that doesnt pan out, well, there is always PvE. :-D Which atm, I find a helluva lot more entertaining than PvP. But meh, guess I'm gonna get flamed for using pve gear in warzones now. But pay notice: One of the tanks I talked to (Guardian), is full bm with 2-3 war hero pieces, with the same experience as me. (10k hits from marauder lolwut?). TL;DR: Lazy bastard, read the post. Although use recruit gear instead of rakata gear makes you HP very low, expertise is more crucial in this patch. So another learn to play post:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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