Chat Bubbles: We need an option to enable them for say, yell and emote chat!

[SithEmpress]

Hey everyone - I asked Lead Designer Damion Schubert if there are any new updates on this topic. We still do not have an ETA for the implementation of this feature, but we're definitely aware it's something players want. We did attempt a version of chat bubbles once, but they introduced some severe performance issues, and we'll need to address that before they can be implemented. Thanks for your patience!

 

 

^ Thanks for the reply, though it is really sad that there is no ETA for this when it’s a major feature that RP really need.

I am starting to have little hope we will ever see them.

[anonnn]

*** HERE'S YOUR SOLUTION ! ***

 

To immediately address performance issues, make Chat Bubbles default to only show chat bubbles that are from people on your Friends list or in your Guild. Then make sure to add a UI element in the Settings that allows configuring it to allow several different settings for that:

 

Show chat bubbles for:

(1) [DEFAULT] Friends and Guild Members

(2) only Friends

(3) only Guild members

(4) only Group members

(5) [ONLY IF NOT PERFORMANCE-CATASTROPHIC] Everyone

(6) no one (switch off Chat Bubbles)

 

Perhaps there should also be a 2nd identical popup-menu setting for a user to choose their own [DEFAULT] setting. When a person leaves group, if the [only Group members] setting was chosen while in the current group, their chat bubbles reverts automatically to their chosen default. Personally I would also like a console command to quickly change the setting to only-group-members, such as /groupbubbles

 

Now I realize that some people have a ton of friends in-game, so to adjust the performance characteristics for those people, I would strongly recommend also adding a setting for chat-bubble maximum distance. Anything from 1m to 100m seems reasonable. If a player is not within the specified minimum distance from you, their chat will not show up in a chat bubble. And again, console commands are a savvy player's best friend, so a console command such as "/bubbleradius %[RADIUS]" would be very appreciated.

[Skyrison]

Toggable chat bubbles pwease. yes, Im back

[RazielHex]

We think we've got that worked out though. So chat bubbles: YES!"

 

Guess he was wrong.

Edited December 6, 2012 by RazielHex

[anonnn]

I beg to differ. I doubt anything else on the to do list for the UI team should have higher priority than speech bubbles. Everything else that was really important UI wise has been implemented already, after all. And there are countless people that agree.

 

I don't think anything could be more conducive to the social environment than chat bubbles. It takes chat text meant for personal individuals (often within 20m of you) and puts it in 3D space in the intended recipients' visual fields, rather than serially in their text-only small window, interleaved with who knows how much spam (including credit-spammers grrrr) and all other impertinent chat text. Spam would truly take a back seat most of the time. The benefit for the social environment would be:

 

DRAMATIC !

 

Please BioWare, add chat bubbles ASAP and add a basic constrainment by group (Friends, Guild, Group, Friends&Guild&Group, Everyone, No one) and constrainment by location (hide chat bubbles beyond an adjustable 1m - 150m) and let the players work out the performance details for themselves. To be conservative, [DEFAULT] settings could be chat bubbles for current Group only, and chat bubbles hidden beyond 15m, and it shouldn't be a performance problem. And I'm sure you've already thunk it, but the chat bubbles should be colored text, the same color as what text would be from each individual in the chat console (Guild, Group, Yell, etc), with the exception that chat from Friends should have its own chat-bubble color (if they're not in Guild or Group also).

 

I would add a "Chat Bubbles" menu in the Console window upper-left, where the Social emote menu is located, that has quick-change settings for all chat bubbles features. And if you want to get ambitious with it, there could be a setting for "Adaptive Bubbles" that would constrain by distance automatically, if it's detected that the display of the Chat bubbles are causing a noticeable performance problem.

[Tordos]

I'm not certain I understand where this need for chat bubbles comes from as opposed to simply a want. I read the entirety of the OP and I still do not see where you mention why this feature is needed. You go to great lengths to explain how it could improve the gaming/RP experience but I see nothing game-breaking with the absence of chat bubbles.

 

I RP fine without a need for chat bubbles and role-players already RP without them so what exactly is the need here? Convenience I can understand, aesthetics ok... but convenience =/= need. Do people prefer looking all over the screen for people chatting and emotes rather then the chat window? I don't know. In contrast, enter something like character transfers and one could easily see where a need could exist. PTS character copy, a better group finder that works, a guild system, bug tracker utility and tools for testers, memory leak solution, engine optimization etc. would be things I could understand there being a need for.

 

I mean no disrespect but I just don't see that need here. Perhaps someone could enlighten me but to me this is just something nice to have and I think there are lots of people who will agree that chat bubbles are frankly non-essential. Anyway, that's my current position on this. I would welcome the addition of chat bubbles with a toggle but I would not call it a need. And yes, I know there will be those who disagree with me.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Tordos

[anonnn]

I'm not certain I understand where this need for chat bubbles comes from as opposed to simply a want. I read the entirety of the OP and I still do not see where you mention why this feature is needed. You go to great lengths to explain how it could improve the gaming/RP experience but I see nothing game-breaking with the absence of chat bubbles.

 

I RP fine without a need for chat bubbles and role-players already RP without them so what exactly is the need here? Convenience I can understand, aesthetics ok... but convenience =/= need. Do people prefer looking all over the screen for people chatting and emotes rather then the chat window? I don't know. In contrast, enter something like character transfers and one could easily see where a need could exist. PTS character copy, a better group finder that works, a guild system, bug tracker utility and tools for testers, memory leak solution, engine optimization etc. would be things I could understand there being a need for.

 

I mean no disrespect but I just don't see that need here. Perhaps someone could enlighten me but to me this is just something nice to have and I think there are lots of people who will agree that chat bubbles are frankly non-essential. Anyway, that's my current position on this. I would welcome the addition of chat bubbles with a toggle but I would not call it a need. And yes, I know there will be those who disagree with me.

 

BAW! Sure, I can try to explain to you. It's all about BELLS AND WHISTLES. The chat system as it is now is clunky, and so very 1988. Seriously, it's no better than what chat BBS's were in that year, on a 1200 baud modem where text sent that's multi-line and perhaps 1000 characters long (10 lines at 100 characters/line) could actually be seen scrolling slow...ly onto your display as it was received through your modem. And the text was displayed in a serial text window just as it does in SWToR now. If too many people send at once, then you're in /tell-hell with 2+ pages of sudden additions and you have to scroll back to find out if anyone who had been conversing with you has sent you anything new. Ok so the point is that as chat systems go, it doesn't get much more archaic. It's THE original design. Sure there are chat color hints for Guild, Group, etc, but that only helps so much. The truth is that if people want to chat amongst a few other people exclusively, they should have the option to have it in Chat Bubbles so that they can have a "Real" conversation where what's said emerges from the virtual likeness of the speaker. That's how chat was in SWG and it was positively excellent.

 

IMHO, you should not only be screaming for chat bubbles like many of us, you should be screaming for the ReaL bells and whistles, such as spatialized voice chat that is so perfectly done that you can tell where everyone is in the room you're in, and you could even tell just from the spatialization effects in the voice that your teammate has fallen off the top ledge in EV and is screaming for rez ASAP as they fall to their death. Oh, and with obviously mature voice-to-text features, voice chat could automatically fill in a text bubble above the speaker's head as they speak into their microphone. If we can't have that, at least we can have something from the same general category... at least the text chat possible now can emanate from the "actual" person in the form of a text bubble over their head.

 

I mean, if you don't care about chat bubbles, will you be upset if your game is denied other advanced features, such as shadows, non-rigid clothings, in-game bug submittal, removing mods a second time, or the entire Group Finder? By minimalist logic those are all completely non-essential. Yet when Chat Bubbles are put into the game, people are going to spend a significant % of their chat activity outside of the chat console because they can just watch the conversation in 3D space. People will begin to literally congregate just to have conversations, because of how much better it is to converse via bubbles. You can also think of it as an auto-ignore-spam feature, because likely BioWare will figure out to add a constrainment that lets us view only Chat Bubbles from group members. Just imagine please, what it would be like if you end up not needing the chat-text window ever again... because chat bubbles and other advanced chat features suddenly become sophisticated enough that they replace all that... we'd all get a large chunk of our screen back for more important purposes. Chat bubbles are to MMOs, what touch-screens are to mobile phones.

[Gawlron]

Hey everyone - I asked Lead Designer Damion Schubert if there are any new updates on this topic. We still do not have an ETA for the implementation of this feature, but we're definitely aware it's something players want. We did attempt a version of chat bubbles once, but they introduced some severe performance issues, and we'll need to address that before they can be implemented. Thanks for your patience!

 

Cross-faction emotes would be nice.

[Rell]

I know many in my guild that have stopped playing due to this. We know there are other projects coming and many of these hold interst for these players, but they have decided not to stay in the game or subscribe due to the lack of this basic feature.

 

Yes, many of these players are occasional RP'ers. They however feel detatched from the game and player to player interaction because this feature is not in. If this feature were in game, it would give our players a connecting feel to the game and would have provided reasoning to stay while waiting for new content.

 

The fact that such a basic feature has been ignored has undermined the reputation of the game staff and programmers and has become a joke at this point. If they can't handle chat bubbles, how are they going to get anything else accomplished.

[LordArtemis]

If I might suggest....

 

Enable chat bubbles for group only. At least this way if you are in a group and use group chat you can see the chat bubbles, and also give the ability to disable the feature.

 

The impact on the game should be minimal for players since only the group members will display the bubbles. No one else will be able to see the bubbles.

[Tordos]

 

BAW! Sure, I can try to explain to you. It's all about BELLS AND WHISTLES. The chat system as it is now is clunky, and so very 1988. Seriously, it's no better than what chat BBS's were in that year, on a 1200 baud modem where text sent that's multi-line and perhaps 1000 characters long (10 lines at 100 characters/line) could actually be seen scrolling slow...ly onto your display as it was received through your modem. And the text was displayed in a serial text window just as it does in SWToR now. If too many people send at once, then you're in /tell-hell with 2+ pages of sudden additions and you have to scroll back to find out if anyone who had been conversing with you has sent you anything new. Ok so the point is that as chat systems go, it doesn't get much more archaic. It's THE original design. Sure there are chat color hints for Guild, Group, etc, but that only helps so much. The truth is that if people want to chat amongst a few other people exclusively, they should have the option to have it in Chat Bubbles so that they can have a "Real" conversation where what's said emerges from the virtual likeness of the speaker. That's how chat was in SWG and it was positively excellent.

 

IMHO, you should not only be screaming for chat bubbles like many of us, you should be screaming for the ReaL bells and whistles, such as spatialized voice chat that is so perfectly done that you can tell where everyone is in the room you're in, and you could even tell just from the spatialization effects in the voice that your teammate has fallen off the top ledge in EV and is screaming for rez ASAP as they fall to their death. Oh, and with obviously mature voice-to-text features, voice chat could automatically fill in a text bubble above the speaker's head as they speak into their microphone. If we can't have that, at least we can have something from the same general category... at least the text chat possible now can emanate from the "actual" person in the form of a text bubble over their head.

 

I mean, if you don't care about chat bubbles, will you be upset if your game is denied other advanced features, such as shadows, non-rigid clothings, in-game bug submittal, removing mods a second time, or the entire Group Finder? By minimalist logic those are all completely non-essential. Yet when Chat Bubbles are put into the game, people are going to spend a significant % of their chat activity outside of the chat console because they can just watch the conversation in 3D space. People will begin to literally congregate just to have conversations, because of how much better it is to converse via bubbles. You can also think of it as an auto-ignore-spam feature, because likely BioWare will figure out to add a constrainment that lets us view only Chat Bubbles from group members. Just imagine please, what it would be like if you end up not needing the chat-text window ever again... because chat bubbles and other advanced chat features suddenly become sophisticated enough that they replace all that... we'd all get a large chunk of our screen back for more important purposes. Chat bubbles are to MMOs, what touch-screens are to mobile phones.

 

I find it a bit ironic that you would use the term bells and whistles to describe this feature when it actually serves my point. You mention that you think the text window is archaic. So is the wheel but does that mean it needs to change? Not necessarily. It still works. Some people prefer the scrolling over the "look all over the screen to find who said what", in the end it's a matter of choice. You mention that chat bubbles give conversations a realistic quality about them. I'm sorry but I don't see how a text field above your head is any more "real" then a text field in a designated location, perhaps a lack of imagination on my end but to me it's still text.

 

I believe I saw spatialized voice chat as a feature on one of the voice chat programs. I can't remember which it was though, vent/mumble/teamspeak, don't remember. Voice-to-chat could have it's purposes for the hearing impaired but then so would Chat-to-voice for those with reading disabilities but this can be achieved with or without chat bubbles.

 

While I am open to the idea of chat bubbles, I do not see them replacing the chat-window any time soon. I do not see how it could reduce the clutter on the screen either, in fact I think just the opposite. A bunch of bubbles all over the place. I'm not saying it doesn't have it's appeal but to say we would not need the text window is a bit of a stretch.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Tordos

[Skyrison]

I'm back. 1.7? 1.8? Do a nice 1.7 or 1.8 quality of life patch. Even if it's just sitting in chairs with chat bubbles. An rp patch ALL emotes voiced to. THAT would be great.

[anonnn]

I find it a bit ironic that you would use the term bells and whistles to describe this feature when it actually serves my point. You mention that you think the text window is archaic. So is the wheel but does that mean it needs to change? Not necessarily. It still works. Some people prefer the scrolling over the "look all over the screen to find who said what", in the end it's a matter of choice. You mention that chat bubbles give conversations a realistic quality about them. I'm sorry but I don't see how a text field above your head is any more "real" then a text field in a designated location, perhaps a lack of imagination on my end but to me it's still text.

 

I believe I saw spatialized voice chat as a feature on one of the voice chat programs. I can't remember which it was though, vent/mumble/teamspeak, don't remember. Voice-to-chat could have it's purposes for the hearing impaired but then so would Chat-to-voice for those with reading disabilities but this can be achieved with or without chat bubbles.

 

While I am open to the idea of chat bubbles, I do not see them replacing the chat-window any time soon. I do not see how it could reduce the clutter on the screen either, in fact I think just the opposite. A bunch of bubbles all over the place. I'm not saying it doesn't have it's appeal but to say we would not need the text window is a bit of a stretch.

 

Well I figured that if you responded to my post in a way at all critical that you'd make the mistakes & mis-interpretations that you did. I think it all centers around something that you and many others suffer from ... Lowered Expectations. And a severe lack of imagination, or something. And a severe predisposition to be argumentative.

 

(1) You picked on the terminology I used ("Bells And Whistles") without considering it within the context of the rest of my post. By my logic, a seatbelt is part of the bells and whistles in a car design. Do you want to drive a car with no seatbelt? I sure don't, and neither do I want to be without chat bubbles.

 

(2) You ignored half my post and pretended I suggested chat bubbles could solely replace the chat text window, which I didn't... reread my last paragraph please. Chat bubbles can easily make the chat window un-necessary for a lot of chat purposes, and with other advanced chat features, combined that could get rid of the raw chat window altogether... i'll leave it up to you to discern what other advanced chat features that would require.

 

(3) If you don't think that chat bubbles make the conversation more realistic, then I'm not sure what you're even thinking of. I really can't help you figure out the benefit of chat bubbles, you'll have to go find some game that has them. I think anyone who's bothered to be social on a regular basis in a MPOG will understand the reality of what Chat Bubbles will provide.

[Alynore]

So, the so called update we get about chat bubbles isn't even an update at all. Its the same answer that we have got since the game launched. "No ETA". Really, if there is no plans to have these fixed they should just get it over with and tell us they don't want to fix the problem. This is after all a bug fix, not implementing an entirely new thing. Chat bubbles DID exist.

 

And I love that moods were added in 1.4 ahead of chat bubbles. Moods were much more important than chat bubbles.

[kirorx]

Chat bubbles : Probally not going to happen. If they wait long enough the playerbase will forget about them. Its been a year that SWTOR has been out and chat bubbles have not be implemented, this is obviously last priority for bioware.

 

Player interaction has taken a back seat to gear grinding.

 

I would like to see chat bubbles, but i would like to see dynamic weathier too, but this is all very unlikly.

[Norke]

I feel there is a deeper discussion Bioware needs to be having if chat bubbles cause performance issues.

[Tordos]

Well I figured that if you responded to my post in a way at all critical that you'd make the mistakes & mis-interpretations that you did. I think it all centers around something that you and many others suffer from ... Lowered Expectations. And a severe lack of imagination, or something. And a severe predisposition to be argumentative.

 

(1) You picked on the terminology I used ("Bells And Whistles") without considering it within the context of the rest of my post. By my logic, a seatbelt is part of the bells and whistles in a car design. Do you want to drive a car with no seatbelt? I sure don't, and neither do I want to be without chat bubbles.

 

(2) You ignored half my post and pretended I suggested chat bubbles could solely replace the chat text window, which I didn't... reread my last paragraph please. Chat bubbles can easily make the chat window un-necessary for a lot of chat purposes, and with other advanced chat features, combined that could get rid of the raw chat window altogether... i'll leave it up to you to discern what other advanced chat features that would require.

 

(3) If you don't think that chat bubbles make the conversation more realistic, then I'm not sure what you're even thinking of. I really can't help you figure out the benefit of chat bubbles, you'll have to go find some game that has them. I think anyone who's bothered to be social on a regular basis in a MPOG will understand the reality of what Chat Bubbles will provide.

 

I'm not a big fan of using numbers to list what I have to say but since you did this I will return the courtesy.

 

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bells_and_whistles. Do you really think seatbelts are non-essential?

2) I did not say you made this suggestion, I simply stated that I do not see them replacing the chat window. I do see how it may have been implied in the way you suggest but I stand by my words.

3) I have had my share of games with chat bubbles and it is my opinion that they do not make socializing more or less realistic then having a chat window. If you disagree that is fine but you should respect the views of others. Saying I am of the group of people with "lowered expectations", or that I should go find a game to help me figure out the benefits of chat bubbles is unnecessary and offensive.

 

I do thank you, however, for taking the time to respond to my posts in length, highlighting words in pretty colors.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Tordos

[Vladnar]

THESE ARE BEING LOOKED INTO..........its just introducing them without ruining playability, which isn't currently happening.

[darthmorbous]

it amazes me that in a 2012 mmo, with 200 million + dollars for development, chat bubbles create SERIOUS PERFORMANCE PROBLEMS... are you freeking KIDDING ME?

[SawneyRath]

I'm really disappointed by the developer response, but I am glad that they at least looked at the thread and told us SOMETHING. I would like to see this feature added sooner than later, but from the sounds of it, they are having a hard time figuring out how to implement the Chat Bubble system they had in Beta.

 

Now, I would like for them to discuss in more detail the exact problems they are having fixing the bubbles and in what way the bubbles are causing any sort of client/server/ect lag that they claim.

 

Is there anyway a Dev could possibly enlighten those of us who are dedicated to Chat Bubbles on the issues and planned fixes for the Chat Bubble System?

[anonnn]

for BIOWARE:

 

Chat Bubbles are AWESOME ... the enhancement to the social environment in SWToR would be superb.

 

How to Dodge the Performance Problems with Chat Bubbles

(1) default to only Group chat bubbles.

(2) only allow the toggle-on-off for bubbles from Groupies, Friends and Guildies

(3) make Chat Bubbles only invoked through the channel command /b for "Bubble". This way, chat-as-usual will not automatically go to a chat bubble, and it will be minimally disruptive to the way things work now with chatting. And just like other channels, when you send once to /b , the next chat you type will automatically also go to /b

(4) possibly add another chat setting for maximum-distance, which would show chat bubbles only within the specified distance, adjustable from 1m to 100m, or infinity, which I think should auto-default to 30m. Only if this feature is working flawlessly, would it be permissible to allow the toggle-on of Chat Bubbles for all (same-faction) players. Otherwise it will just create frustration with the inevitable performance issues if people end up wading through fields of chat bubbles on Carrick.

(5) send me a personal mail, request a resume, fly me out to do the development on it myself

 

How to Make Chat Bubbles Work Beautifully for Groups

(1) When in groups, it would be very useful (for FPs & Ops in particular) for chat bubbles to be always shown from all group members

(2) If a group member is out of view, the Bubble has a special border, maybe has smaller text, and is located in a logical place within the display area, hovering over their location in the distance, or at the edge of the screen if their location is in the periphery. And if the Group member is not in the same area, their Chat Bubble can emanate from their name in the group name grid

(3) Not sure if there's usefulness in it, but while a Chat Bubble is on screen, the player could click the bubble to target the sender

 

Other Ideas for Chat Bubbles

(1) add a filter-keyword utility for Chat Bubbles. This way credit spammers can be filtered out by the name of their website, and people won't have to look at extremely obnoxious Chat Bubble spam for the rest of their time in SWToR. This is only needed if Chat Bubbles become enabled from all players.

(2) allow the setting of a variable time delay for the chat bubbles, for people on my Friends list I'd like the chat bubble delay to be far longer

(3) add a setting for color of chat bubble text. This would of course default to the same as current colors for Group and Guild, and I think the color should be this for: Friends

[anonnn]

How About This ?

 

All 3 of /say, /yell, and /emote would go to Bubbles, just as originally described, and would have bubble text colored in their respective colors. However, there would be a 4th type of bubble chat possible, usable with the command /bubble, that would only go to Group Members, and while in group-bubbling mode, the bubble text would be in Group color. This satisfies a certain need for private Bubbling, and can make for a very nice bubbling quality while in a group.

 

However, here's the amazing part: Add a command alongside the contextual menu choices "Whisper" and "Trade"... and name it "Bubble". Now there's a way to request a 2-person bubble chat session that will last for as long as you stay within close range of the person (15m?), and would have bubble text that has a private bubbling color.

 

OK now here's the extremely amazing part: while in your 2-person bubble session, you or the other person can invite yet another person to "Bubble", and now you've got a 3-person bubble session... and before you know it you've got entire guilds congregating on Carrick Station to hold Bubble sessions. Probably you'll want an indicator over each person's head that shows they're part of the Bubble session, so as the Bubble group grows (anyone can invite an additional Bubbler) it doesn't become an unknown level of privacy... but the point is, the level of versatility and ease of procedure for it would, I think, be kind of fun.

 

omg

[AboB]

Neh.

Bubbles popping up on screen would be intrusive, Imo.

As much as I respect the opinions of the other posters in this thread, I do have to say that I would be somewhat annoyed by any potential forced implementation of chat bubbles. I just come from an age where I don't need to be constantly bombarded with sensory input.

[Cave]

Neh.

Bubbles popping up on screen would be intrusive, Imo.

As much as I respect the opinions of the other posters in this thread, I do have to say that I would be somewhat annoyed by any potential forced implementation of chat bubbles. I just come from an age where I don't need to be constantly bombarded with sensory input.

Where did you get the idea it would be forced? This thread is about a toggle option to enable chat bubbles. Nothing else. If you'd have read the quotes in the top post, you'd know that the developers already said "whenever we do them, they'll be toggleable.". Gotta love the naysayers that barge in and post against something when they haven't even read the first post properly.

 

Besides, the implementation they had during beta had a toggle option as well, and judging by Bioware's track record in TOR, they will eventually use the option as it was in beta without any big changes anyway, just like they have done with dynamic shadows, unify colors and other things in the past.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Cave

[anonnn]

... it wasn't maybe obvious in my previous idea that, when you create a private bubble chat group via the "Bubble" contextual menu option, the /bubble command ( /b for short) would become the private bubbling session command, and group bubble chat would be effectively shut off for the duration of the spontaneous bubble group. It seems a fairly elegant way to make that work, there are maybe other ways to achieve the same features, but I think when someone forms a private bubble session, it's for only a limited time and doesn't matter to keep Group bubbling activated. This way would be more simple for the player, since there's not 2 different commands for the default of Group bubbling and temporary bubble-group bubbling.