Not Happy. Taugrim From Pro Guides,Pro Gameplay On Patch 1.2

[Ancard]

He pretty much sums up how we all feel. Competetive and casual players.

 

SWTOR PVP in 1.2: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

 

Yes he does. We written analysis.

I'm amazed so many posting on this board don't get this. One would think it was their first MMO.

[Krenzik]

Excellent article, and it shows from someone who is highly regarded and has played lots of MMO's that our concerns about pvp in this game are valid ones.

 

It does call into question the critical thinking skills of those who think this dumbed down zergfest is awesome.

[TurokDarkstar]

From the article to the comments section, I completely agree with him. PvP is now about dps, which makes thing very boring -- it also negatively affects sustained damage classes and specs. The 1.2 balance changes were pretty terrible.

[Jatne]

Whilst not all the changes in 1.2 are positive, anyone who enjoyed the Turtlefest pre-1.2 has no conept of what good PvP should be.

 

Personally, on a BM geared Assassin I have tanked six people, whilst guarding a Sorc. Anecdotal evidence aside, long drawn out fights are not skill based, they are simply decided by who has the longest attention span and who falls asleep first.

 

I like the increased pace of combat. Does it need a bit of tweaking? Probably. Is it better than the Rift Tank/Healer snoozefest? Definitely.

[alcek]

Exellent article, thumbs up.

[Cempa]

Great post, I hope designers actually read this -though most likely they won't care.

 

It is as if BW is trying its hardest to push customers to other games!

[Lord_Karsk]

Oh sweet Jebus....

 

I've watched Taugrim's steam. Listen, Taugrim is a very good source for finding the information which would have taken me years scouring the internet to collect myself. He's GREAT for infos. I look at his website any time I have a question about vanguard/powertech stats and stuff.

 

But I got banned from his twitch steam for stating the absolutely obvious. He is BAD. BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD in PvP. His opinions on which classes require balancing and what powers are unbalanced are absolutely stupid.

 

I firmly believe some people can be great at some things and really bad at others. Taugrim is an encylopedia of knowledge, yet he is short bus special at applying that knowledge.

 

Not that is matters at all but i have seen most of his streams and i think the only times he have lost 1vs1 have been on ilum against assassins/marauders and i remember clearly some he lost to operatives pre nerf.And we all know these classes were OP period ! Anyone who claims somehing else to be blunt is either ignorant or a moron troll.

So if you got banned i think that was nice because i have seen the ones he ban from chat and they have all been mega kid trolls who cant behave and talk like an adult. So you deserved it

[talfouzan]

Excellent article, and it shows from someone who is highly regarded and has played lots of MMO's that our concerns about pvp in this game are valid ones.

 

It does call into question the critical thinking skills of those who think this dumbed down zergfest is awesome.

 

I completely agree. I am hoping bioware sees the light and returns us to pre1.2. instead of this gibfest .

[Celebrus]

He pretty much sums up how we all feel. Competetive and casual players.

 

SWTOR PVP in 1.2: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

 

So, he mentions that ranked warzones delay is bad. Some of us would actually argue that this was a good thing, a very positive decision for the pvp community overall.

 

He complains about commendation ratio. Complaining that people that are gearing can't constantly stack warzone adrenals and medpacs, oh well, you probably weren't supposed to have unrestricted access to those consumables.

 

And he complains about War hero gear requiring BM pieces, in essence, this guy is complaining about gear progression being bad for PvP. He is a scrub based on this argument alone.

 

Then he proceeds to get highly opinionated and dish what he feels about the game out as fact, mostly from the perspective of a jaded healer, complaining about how everything *EXCEPT* for healers needed to be nerfed in 1.2 (it's funny that he doesn't feel that sorcerors needed to be tuned *AT ALL* with 1.2) which basically tells me that this is a Sorceror healer going off on a rant because he got tuned a bit.

 

Oh well. Nothing to really see here.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Celebrus

[Zekeiele]

So, he mentions that ranked warzones delay is bad. Some of us would actually argue that this was a good thing, a very positive decision for the pvp community overall.

 

He complains about commendation ratio. Complaining that people that are gearing can't constantly stack warzone adrenals and medpacs, oh well, you probably weren't supposed to have unrestricted access to those consumables.

 

And he complains about War hero gear requiring BM pieces, in essence, this guy is complaining about gear progression being bad for PvP. He is a scrub based on this argument alone.

 

Then he proceeds to get highly opinionated and dish what he feels about the game out as fact, mostly from the perspective of a jaded healer, complaining about how everything *EXCEPT* for healers needed to be nerfed in 1.2 (it's funny that he doesn't feel that sorcerors needed to be tuned *AT ALL* with 1.2) which basically tells me that this is a Sorceror healer going off on a rant because he got tuned a bit.

 

Oh well. Nothing to really see here.

LOL.. wow when your wrong you like to be REALLY wrong...let me help you out a little..go to the Vanguard forums and look at the stickies.

[Pekish]

there are some class better then other in 1VS1 end of story and it's normal this game is not balanced 1VS1 and it shouldn't some class are utility class some are AOE class why an AOE class should "win some" vs a single target class in 1VS1

 

i don't get why people is so stuck on 1VS1 problem when the game unless u duel for fun is never 1vs1 unless u try really hard in warzone to look for it (and it means u probably are a burdain for your team SINCE IS A GROUP GAME DONT GO ALONE)

 

Do you want to stealth cap a objective send TWO! (dont send 4 is not a stealth cap anyomre even if u are stealth is a main attach "from" stealth and dont send ONE it's only about luck in that case)

 

People that think that PVP has a problem based on 1vs1 balance are really the worst pvper around

Edited April 18, 2012 by Pekish

[VoidJustice]

He's misguided.

His only gripe is that the TTK on BM's is now lower.

Umnnn what did you think would happen when they gave

new 50's competitive gear, and started handing out WH gear,

of course TTK is going down for the old skool unkillable

expertise masters. Ya the changes were made so that

full BM folks couldn't ignore everyone but other BM folks.

 

gear gap closes... people cry... mmmmm yep... expected.

 

TTK is fine, pvp is fine, OWPVP is OP...

 

MOAR SKILL LESS GEAR n QQ PLX...

Edited April 18, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Audenlol]

The guy is not happy unless his class is on top.

 

Happens in every MMO I have played where fanbois bring up his posts.

 

:wea_03:

[nallard]

So, he mentions that ranked warzones delay is bad. Some of us would actually argue that this was a good thing, a very positive decision for the pvp community overall.

 

He complains about commendation ratio. Complaining that people that are gearing can't constantly stack warzone adrenals and medpacs, oh well, you probably weren't supposed to have unrestricted access to those consumables.

 

And he complains about War hero gear requiring BM pieces, in essence, this guy is complaining about gear progression being bad for PvP. He is a scrub based on this argument alone.

 

Then he proceeds to get highly opinionated and dish what he feels about the game out as fact, mostly from the perspective of a jaded healer, complaining about how everything *EXCEPT* for healers needed to be nerfed in 1.2 (it's funny that he doesn't feel that sorcerors needed to be tuned *AT ALL* with 1.2) which basically tells me that this is a Sorceror healer going off on a rant because he got tuned a bit.

 

Oh well. Nothing to really see here.

 

I probably shouldn't respond since it's clear you don't know what you're talking about, but I can't help myself.

 

First, he's a vanguard, but I'm sure by the time I've finished writing other people will have pointed out that obvious fact. I say obvious because he mentions it a couple of times in his post and a few more in the comments.

 

He did point out an area where sorc/sages needed tuning. The list he gave of abilities that should have been looked at wasn't exhaustive by any means, and I'm sure he'd give a more in depth analysis of that class if that were the point of the article. Clearly though you have a bone to pick with sorc/sages, so you probably wanted to work that in on the off chance that people had forgotten about your crusade.

 

The cost of adrenals and medpacs are an issue for a couple of reasons. By making them prohibitively expensive, biochem and the reusable stims, adrenals, and medpacs, have remained the preferred crew skill for top end pvpers. This patch was supposed to make all crew skills equally viable, but that's just not the case.

 

Following on that point, the price of those adrenals and medpacs has to be considered in light of how much the war hero gear costs. If you're saving all your comms because you're biochem, then you're going to get an advantage. If you're just not using the war zone consumables, then you're going to be at a disadvantage in the war zone, facing people who have comparable consumables.

 

Lastly, he isn't complaining about gear progression. I think that the cost of the war hero gear (7-8 times the cost of the same bm piece) is enough of a gating mechanic. What requiring the bm piece does is lock you into a specific set, rather than letting you mix and match to find the best pieces with the appropriate stats. Since the itemization varies so much between the two tiers (and is so generally out of whack) it makes gearing appropriately a needlessly complex and even more grindy chore.

Edited April 18, 2012 by nallard

[Celebrus]

LOL.. wow when your wrong you like to be REALLY wrong...let me help you out a little..go to the Vanguard forums and look at the stickies.

 

He is angry that his class and spec is not on top.

 

He is ranting and raving about things that most serious pvpers accept as necessary and expected. Some of them even positives.

 

He is upset that the changes that *HE* expected and that *HE* knew would positively impact game balance did not make their way into the game.

 

So, what am I wrong about exactly? That he was a sorc healer?

 

Everything else seems pretty accurate. I apologize that I do not know everyone that believes they are a pro at this game. Guess e-fame only goes so far.

 

This patch was supposed to make all crew skills equally viable, but that's just not the case.

 

It is simply small things like this that make the rest of your post not worth bothering with.

 

They never said they were making all crew skills equally viable, they said they were working on restructuring them to achieve more balance.

 

In other words, it's a work in progress, don't expect it to be reversed overnight.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Celebrus

[nallard]

He's misguided.

His only gripe is that the TTK on BM's is now lower.

Umnnn what did you think would happen when they gave

new 50's competitive gear, and started handing out WH gear,

of course TTK is going down for the old skool unkillable

expertise masters. Ya the changes were made so that

full BM folks couldn't ignore everyone but other BM folks.

 

gear gap closes... people cry... mmmmm yep... expected.

 

TTK is fine, pvp is fine, OWPVP is OP...

 

MOAR SKILL LESS GEAR n QQ PLX...

 

I'm not sure you PvP much because they're hardly handing out war hero gear. It's a long grind to get even one piece.

 

And as for a gap, well, the gap between those with bm and those without has grown exponentially. Fresh 50s might as well go into war zones naked for all the good their gear does. There is probably less skill in war zones now than there was before because of the lower ttk.

[vibenode]

Meh I have been waiting patiently for 5 months for them to sort out pretty much only what Taugrim said needed doing in his class balancing.

 

My original server died and I have to re-roll a lv 67 Valour Main, lose 26 Legacy, 4 months of my life working on a character that I can't play due to extremely low server pop.

 

Now after the last 5 weeks I have just hit Waro Hero on my new main on a new server and 1.2 hits...what a joke seriously. To start with I just assumed it was because I wasn't full BM geared yet that I was getting pwned in seconds. After 2 days I got my full BM gearz only to find that I still die in seconds. /agree most of the skill has been taken out of the game now. The TTK is just stupid now, how a patch like this can go live is beyond me, it was all shaping up so nicely as well. Turned from a game that I preferred more than WoW (5 Year player) into a game im struggling not to get pissed off with before I complete my PvP daily. I think this may be the straw that broke the camels back. I had no intention of looking into another MMO yet Tera and GW2 are looking more and more likely with each passing day for me. Well done BW you have broken a game with some of the most potential I have ever seen.

Edited April 18, 2012 by vibenode

[Celebrus]

My original server died and I have to re-roll a lv 67 Valour Main, lose 26 Legacy, 4 months of my life working on a character that I can't play due to extremely low server pop.

 

 

My server was dead before 1.2.

 

1.2 basically revived it, it went from 60-70 people on the imp fleet at prime time to nearly 200 at prime time literally overnight when 1.2 released.

 

I'd have to say it is doing more good for the game than bad, contrary to the popular forum feelings (which is always the case).

 

It is safe to say that so far, 1.2 has not killed pvp on my server, with over twice as many warzones running now as there were a week ago.

 

I was on the verge of re-rolling a week ago, I am now firmly set in continuing on the server I have been on, because it looks like these are going up.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Celebrus

[MightyHalo]

Idiot mods got a new cancellation. **** you and your game and your support for this whiner.

[Celebrus]

Lastly, he isn't complaining about gear progression. I think that the cost of the war hero gear (7-8 times the cost of the same bm piece) is enough of a gating mechanic. What requiring the bm piece does is lock you into a specific set, rather than letting you mix and match to find the best pieces with the appropriate stats. Since the itemization varies so much between the two tiers (and is so generally out of whack) it makes gearing appropriately a needlessly complex and even more grindy chore.

 

Yeah, he's totally right, and you are too, they should just scrap the current system and give us War Hero bags from our daily quests.

 

Because that system wasn't at all grindy or stupid was it?

 

What you have now is a vast improvement over prior gearing methods in this game.

[nallard]

It is simply small things like this that make the rest of your post not worth bothering with.

 

They never said they were making all crew skills equally viable, they said they were working on restructuring them to achieve more balance.

 

In other words, it's a work in progress, don't expect it to be reversed overnight.

 

I can tell that in general you don't bother much with reading, or thinking for that matter. I suppose achieving more balance with crew skills really means that some are more economically viable, so create some crafting alts, but keep biochem on your main because it's still the best crew skill for competitive PvP.

 

And why shouldn't I expect it to be reversed IN A MAJOR CONENT PATCH. Not overnight, but in a patch they have been working on for months.

 

Please try to apply some analytic thinking in the future, it will make your arguments seem much less like lashing out and more like intelligent discourse. But I guess that will be a work in progress and I shouldn't expect changes overnight.

[nallard]

Yeah, he's totally right, and you are too, they should just scrap the current system and give us War Hero bags from our daily quests.

 

Because that system wasn't at all grindy or stupid was it?

 

What you have now is a vast improvement over prior gearing methods in this game.

 

I can't really tell if you're purposely trying to be provocative or really believe what you're saying. Nobody suggested anything like what you're saying. For example, you could just make it so that you need a BM weapon to buy a WH weapon. There's no need to lock you into the exact same set.

 

And a vast improvement is a vast overstatement. It's taken out the RNG element (which is good) but it's made the time needed to get the gear pretty ridiculous.

Edited April 18, 2012 by nallard

[VoidJustice]

I'm not sure you PvP much because they're hardly handing out war hero gear. It's a long grind to get even one piece.

 

And as for a gap, well, the gap between those with bm and those without has grown exponentially. Fresh 50s might as well go into war zones naked for all the good their gear does. There is probably less skill in war zones now than there was before because of the lower ttk.

 

I exclusively Pvp about 5 to 6 hours a night, cause I have to work /shrug...

My best friend turned 50 last night bought a full set of recruit gear first thing and

2 pieces of BM... as I told him to come into 50 with 1000 / 1000 coms, and people

that listen to me seem to do really well in swtor; go figure.

 

In our first game he trailed me by 45 to 57 in kills; 18 to 13 metals our first game out together (Im 980 expertise atm; he's 1k + in all recruit, Im in lots o champ still) Now granted he heals me alot so that gets him lots of metals but, hey... whadyawant a cookie? We 2 man q'd most of the night as while we love our guild we are RL friends and wanted to celebrate him turning 50 by killing eachother and everyone else as much as possible, it's the carebear way.

 

so I don't know what everyone elses problem is seems fine to me. BTW my buddy is a hybrid spec't councilor and can beat me 50/50 when we spar, which is what we do when were not in Wz's, all the time.

 

People cry alot, those of us that pvp alot seem to be doing fine and having a good time.

 

Wish I could help you guys out, but I can't. My best advice... more Pew pew less QQ... and that really is meant as advice... (the more you play the more gear and experience = you get better; crying really helps nothing)

 

also get some friends to duel with it will help alot.

 

/shrug

 

p.s. I don't even worry myself with the WH grind. I pvp for fun and right now for BM gear, which comes fast and furious. If WH takes forever to get that's fine as long as the TTK between BM and WH doesn't turn this back into 1.2 where BM's just ignored 3 or more non-Bm's wailing on them.

Edited April 18, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Celebrus]

And why shouldn't I expect it to be reversed IN A MAJOR CONENT PATCH. Not overnight, but in a patch they have been working on for months.

 

Because they didn't say they were making all crew skills equally viable, not economically, not for PvE, and not for PvP. The claim was *never* made.

 

You built up expectations of what was coming in this patch when it comes to crew skills, those expectations weren't met, but that doesn't mean they didn't come through with what they had promised involving crew skills. It just means you had unrealistic expectations that you built around a statement that you likely misunderstood.

 

Please try to apply some analytic thinking in the future, it will make your arguments seem much less like lashing out and more like intelligent discourse. But I guess that will be a work in progress and I shouldn't expect changes overnight

 

What an intellectual way of making such a playground-style attack on what I've said.

 

Do we get snacks on recess today?

[Militum]

TTK is down dramatically, and this has taken away SWTOR’s best attribute in PVP: drawn-out fights that allow for tactical gameplay. Fully-geared Battlemaster players melt under any kind of focus fire. PVP is now a gibfest.

 

My favorite part.

 

I hope they listen...