The penalties for losing are TOO severe

[Seydis]

The problem isn't really the fact that the losing rewards are terrible.

 

The problem is that they've designed a system where people know well in advance if they are going to lose and get no rewards, thus they can just leave and not waste their time.

 

In a perfect world, pre-mades would not be placed against pugs so there'd be less facerolling. But we all of course know that a pre-made only que would take ages just to que into a WZ. I do not envy BW here in trying to fix this. But, with all of the problems in terms of low populations, pre-mades vs. pugs, faction imbalance, etc, I can't really see any solution that would keep people playing aside from not punishing losing teams so much.

 

Bottom line, is this game fun for everyone to play? If you're on a losing WZ team where you get little to no rewards, then the answer is easily no.

 

This is a game, and I find it hard to believe that everyone could say that PvP is now a fun thing in which to participate. People want to have fun when playing a game. 0 rewards for $15 per month is not fun.

[Herbertt]

I guess it's an odd concept that a team of war hero geared players will beat a team of recruit players..

 

Not really no, most war heros are terrible, just like you will be when you gear up into war hero, nothing will ever change that.

[Banicks]

oh an ageist, lovely....

 

it's not about getting geared quicker. if you lose you might have no chance to gear at all. it's so bad I'm thinking about just respeccing for dps now...

 

I've been a healer since I started PvPing TOR. It is alot easier to get medals/valor/tokens post 1.2 win or lose than pre.

 

Even pre 1.2, you got less than the winning team funnily enough. But people still geared up, it just took longer.

 

Maybe if you want more wins/success in PvP, join a PvP orientated guild with strats and players who know *** they're doing. If you roll a PuG team you must be prepared to lose, and I look forward to the anti-AFK/leave debuff to prevent scrubs from quitting.

 

Regardless of age.

[Shlamorel]

Better Rewards for losing make more people stay in a match.

 

Punishments for quitting simply make more people stop pvping.

 

 

So you support giving more rewards to the losing team to have them stay in a match, and you support not punishing quitters?

 

I don't see it like that at all. The losing team isn't punished.... the winning team is rewarded. I'm ok with that.

 

As for not punishing quitters... who should be suffering the consequences of the quitters? By not addressing quitters, the people who actually keep trying to win are getting punished. I'd think quitters should be punished before non-quitters.

[Tiber_Septim]

At least there's an incentive now to not settle for camping sole point for the whole match. People will have to work to get comms.

[MarkoJinn]

This to me is unwinnable situation for Bioware... On one side you have to award those who play PVP and win with some sort of better equipment/gear. On the other that creates a scenario where superior teams are created which run through the opposition with ease. It's a lose lose scenario. You cannot satisfy both groups. If you take away the high expertise gear then the hardcore players will quit if it stays the way it is now then those who don't have uber gear will quit...

 

We need to have a serious discussion here on what can be done to make the system as satisfying as possible for all. What you're going against here is the complexities of real life. If someone invests more time than you into PVPing he/she will inherently have better more powerful gear. Should this be the case in a game world? If yes what will stimulate the casual player to continue playing if he/she gets owned in PVP non-stop?

 

Perhaps the rewards for successful PVPing should not be equipment and gear but rather some sort of ranking system where those really successful would parade around with some sort of special titles that depend on how well you PVP. For example if your winning percentage is above 90% then you're ACE or general or whatever... That way the expertise system can be eliminated and the combat will depend on skills purely and everyone can have same armors.

 

To me this is a very similar thing to say Formula 1 racing where the skill does not depend on the driver solely but also on the quality of the vehicle. Therefore you could have the best driver in a bad car and you would never really know how good the driver is...

[Kanana]

So you support giving more rewards to the losing team to have them stay in a match, and you support not punishing quitters?

 

I don't see it like that at all. The losing team isn't punished.... the winning team is rewarded. I'm ok with that.

 

As for not punishing quitters... who should be suffering the consequences of the quitters? By not addressing quitters, the people who actually keep trying to win are getting punished. I'd think quitters should be punished before non-quitters.

 

I support getting more people to pvp. Rewards even if they lose a wz will do that. Punishing quitters will not help, it'll simply make more people stop pvping.

 

In short, no one should get punished, and everyone who plays a match, win or lose, should get rearded for the time spent in a game.

[ekwalizer]

Why would they be gone. Now they cost 20 comms (medpacs) what will you do with wz comms ?!?!?! For War Hero you need Rated comms.

 

If you play 10 games you get at least 500-600 wz comms even if you lose.

 

What are you talking about ?!?!

 

1. You can purchase RWZ comms with WZ comms at 3:1. If you only gain 40 comms per match, then you can only buy 2 meds at the end. If you have to spend all your comms on meds your gear progression grind time will be significantly increased.

 

2. The hell. If you lose all 10, you *****might***** get 400 comms. Which you could trade in for exactly 13 RWZ comms. How many people do you think will suffer that grind? Less PvPers, means less PvP. Get it?

 

3. Please educate yourself on a subject before you speak on it.

[halfhourofpower]

 

You are the 99%, don't want to work for rewards just get everything handed to you because you wanted to play.

 

Nice statistics, that really shows-- wait, you made them up? Like most people do all the time on public forums? Huh. You realize if he WERE apart of the 99% then that would be ample justification for giving him what he wants, which is less penalties on losing. 99% is an overwhelming majority and SHOULD be obeyed by game devs. So, really, you're just showing how big of a moron you are on multiple fronts. Also, LOL.

[amnie]

I've been a healer since I started PvPing TOR. It is alot easier to get medals/valor/tokens post 1.2 win or lose than pre.

 

Even pre 1.2, you got less than the winning team funnily enough. But people still geared up, it just took longer.

 

Maybe if you want more wins/success in PvP, join a PvP orientated guild with strats and players who know *** they're doing. If you roll a PuG team you must be prepared to lose, and I look forward to the anti-AFK/leave debuff to prevent scrubs from quitting.

 

Regardless of age.

 

if you are in the losing team and ganked all the time because your whole server knows you're a good healer - no, you do NOT get medals easy now.

 

I'm the opposite of a quitter. I hate it. but I will not just run right into the enemy over and over and over again in a 3-man-ops

 

(maybe you should check my sig. find a more pvp oriented guild... awesome advice.. really)

[ntyzor]

learn to read. I mean after .that. mach, because after .that match. they didn't get any new matches. we stopped queuing.

 

it was a voidstar match.

we were attacker.

I'm healer.

I healed myself twice for roughly 5000k and didn't get a single medal for that (afaik that's a bug but annoying still)

then I got buttr* by 4 of them.

our ops was down to 3 people at that point.

the other ops were 8.

I went and started healing the other people in my ops (2)

didn't get medals for that either.

I started 'dps' (I'm a healer) - obviously didn't get medals for that either because they buttr* me again.

 

learn to play.

 

Imagine the frustration for them. Like you where the only 8 people lvl 50's that would queue on the server. They must have felt terrible.

 

Deal with it !

[YouYongku]

This it it.

I'm unsubbing.

[ntyzor]

This it it.

I'm unsubbing.

 

Ohh wait you got 1 month free from Bioware cause you took the time to level a toon to 50.

[sensiblepoast]

I still try to figure out how the damage increase from Expertise makes people die from two hits all over the place now as stated in the forum.

I die more frequently and i have more kills but i don´t get two-shotted even tho 1.2 ate a big chunk of my HP.

At first I thought it was usual forum exageration, but then people in my guild, in full tanky BM setup started complaining about the same happening to them, and they don't read forums.

[Morticoccus]

You honestly want to be rewarded for failing!? How about we just cry until BW just gives us the endgame armour without having to do anything but walk into the operation and say boo to the bosses till they give up the shiney's.

 

You are the 99%, don't want to work for rewards just get everything handed to you because you wanted to play.

 

As a note, I am not an elitest nor am I in any way a PVP God, I am a mediocre player and I'm not crying about anything. Well anything other than there are way to many servers for the amount of sub's for the game.

 

So you are associating yourself with the players that want to grind for everything, you blatantly mock another poster for wanting some incentive to play a game mode that (at least in solo q) offers a completely random chance of any reward, whereas before it did not.

 

You even go far enough to call him "the 99%".

 

 

And then you want to sell us that you are "not an elitist"?

 

Just take that silver spoon out of your mouth and think for a while.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Morticoccus

[TheronFett]

People want to have fun when playing a game. 0 rewards for $15 per month is not fun.

 

This.

 

Most people don't mind losing once in awhile. Hell, I've lost 15 in a row before and not ashamed to admit it. The reward system prior to this patch was fine. The RNG element needed to be removed, but aside from that, fine.

 

Progression means taking systematic steps towards the next level. Winning should get you there faster, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. But losing should still get you there, and right now, it isn't. Around 40 comms and no $$$ for losing? Heh, bite me. 40 comms buys two medpacks.

 

A lot of people (including me) get most of their income from PvP. Or at least they used to. Looks like I'll have to start joining the schmucks doing daily missions in order to support my wife and 7 kids.

[Valeroth]

Just some thoughts on the original topic (I didn't read all the pages). I didn't start PvPing until late, and just before the patch I hit Valor 50. I just started getting gear with expertise. I figured more PvP fun would be in the works as I worked my way to Battlemaster. For the last month on my server I'm reguralry in 6 v 8s, always outnumbered. In probably 80% of games my team is outnumberd.

 

Now in this patch yesterday it's more like 3 vs 8 (why does that even start?) And won't end early. I try to be a good sport and fight it to the end only to find that I earn 0 Valor for getting insta killed repeatedly.

 

I will stop PvPing unless invited into a pre-made group. At least then I'll be sure there is 4 people on my team. I think I'll go work on alts or something.

[Karandor]

Wait, people care about war hero gear?

 

It's a very tiny upgrade over BM. A suit of BM with maximized enhancements, yeah, tough to do, will beat a full WH set every time.

[ComeAndSee]

I'm not sure why they changed the system to what it is now. I honestly hate games that have one way rewards for either winning or losing. Performance, skill, or literally losing by 1 point, disconnects, exploits or something along those lines and being smacked with no rewards is frustrating.

 

The bag system is gone (lets all rejoice), but it already is going to take an exceptionally long amount of time to get the Warzone gear through unranked WZ's.

[Ravdin]

You honestly want to be rewarded for failing!? How about we just cry until BW just gives us the endgame armour without having to do anything but walk into the operation and say boo to the bosses till they give up the shiney's.

 

You are the 99%, don't want to work for rewards just get everything handed to you because you wanted to play.

 

As a note, I am not an elitest nor am I in any way a PVP God, I am a mediocre player and I'm not crying about anything. Well anything other than there are way to many servers for the amount of sub's for the game.

 

I would like to say on this post, I am also mediocre in PvP not really my main intrest but I go kill and die in matchs like everyone else. If you are loosing matchs then it means practice thats all working with the ops group to prevail yes the lev 50 bracket makes it harder when there are 6 battle master in match.

 

As far as flashpoints i am happy they have dropped cost for gear I personaly dont like to play in PUG (pick up groups) as I tend to get in with elitists and just plain A Holes. I have made a few friends and enjoyed playing with them, but it is mostly jerks so I tent to wait till guildies are on.

 

As far as WAY to many servers I agree at launch BIO made extras to make it a more stable launch and then the dropoff of WoW fanboys and free time players took thier soapboxes and left. (goodriddence) but I think there needs to be a balance

[Glzmo]

You honestly want to be rewarded for failing!?

No. What people want is to be rewarded for participating, just like Bioware said that they intend it to be. Right now, it's just not the case and people that are on the loosing side are loosing hope and just calling it quits.

 

The gearing up and problem and the problem of outnumbered factions is very valid as well. Since gear is so important in PVP (in my opinion PVP should be about actual player skill, not equipment), once a faction is outgeared, it's extremely hard to win (heck, if you go against a group with full battlemaster and later war hero gear with a ragtag group, it's even hard to get the 3 medals required to even get something from warzones).

Since loosing is being punished so much, they won't ever be able to catch up in gear and it will lead to many players of the severly outgeared and outnumbered faction to quit the game or just switch to the other faction, making the outnumbering even higher.

 

In my opinion, it's poor design.

 

What should happen is this: Every single medal in a warzone should award full rewards. The reward for winning or loosing should be minimal at best, the reward for actively participating should outweigh it by far.

 

Also, the faction that is outnumbered on the server and loosing side more often during say a week, should get all PVP gear for half the price the next.

 

Heck, in general the faction that is in the minority on the server should get everything discounted (ranging from repair costs, to GTN deposits/fees, commendation purchases, credit purchases, etc.) while the faction with higher numbers should get everything more expensive as an incentive for people to switch over and perhaps create more of a balance...but I digress.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Glzmo

[SeriousSammm]

What have MMO's turned into nowdays really ?

 

People claiming that by paying to play the game they have the right to "not get punished" .

 

Let me brake it for you this way.

 

When You/I/Them click on the "Queue Solo" button / "Queue Group" button you accept that you might get punished.

 

Welcome to PvP. Making the difference between individuals in videogames since 1988 !!!

 

No I never claimed that because I pay I shouldn't get punished. I am well aware of that. I am just not willing to spend my time on something that is not worth because let's say you will inevitable have idiots in your team. simple as that. Even if you try and you can get the same number of medals and the same amount of heal by yourself as the healer from the winning team (meaning you really tried hard in a team of noobs), then your effort should be awarded. That's what will make people try. Then they can whine as much as they want, but no one can say there is no way. It's definitely not perfect, but I am quite good in pvp myself and I got 6 medals yesterday and 0 0 0 0 on everything? How is that fair to me? I didn't give up, I stayed the whole time, but I'm bound to be punished due to my team not getting ****? Nah this is to much mate. I cannot make people listen to my advice so even if I try to lead them as ops leader, some people just don't give a damn. Eessentially, you are not them and you can't control their actions. And my whole argument was that if people get served 'we don't care that you don't feel ok as long as you pay' people will turn around as say 'well, **** you then, because I have the option of spending my money elsewhere'. All I'm claiming is that if Bioware wants to keep this game rolling they need to do something about it. Not because of me or you. But for overall satisfaction. People not whining about someone having better eq and the other faction getting bored of winning all the time - no challange. Balance is the key for long lasting entertainment > EA/Bioware getting their money back It's an equation.

 

In regards to nerfing and OP someone. Well. Let me put it this way. I think it shouldn't take 3 people to kill a healer. I believe that it should take 1, maximum 2 players to kill him. At the same time, the healer should have the exact same chance of killing the other player if 1on1. But it always should be done in a sense that 2v1 = you lose. And again in that I see the teamplay essence that is being mentioned many times. So in a sense what they did with damage was reasonable, BUT at the same time, the speed of getting melted is way too fast. They should slow the tempo of the game a bit but reducing damage by a certain percantage for everyone Just my opinion tho.

 

to use your words: So let me break it for you this way - I can and I will decide whether it's worth it for me to play this game or not. If it gets too much for me to bear with, I will simply stop my sub and wait for bioware to come up with a solution. Everybody should do the same (not cancel sub, but take the decision of staying or leaving and then work for it or stop whining about it). But if you want to enjoy the game, you should stop being a ***** just because you probably already have BM eq and you forget that you were in my (and others) position before and allow others to get to your point in the same reasonable amount of time it took you to get there. I think that is what I would call fair. I don't want things for free. I want them fair and square for everyone. I'll work hard for it but only if I'm given the option. Do you see my point now?

Edited April 13, 2012 by SeriousSammm

[ntyzor]

Bioware gave all the whiners free BattleMaster. FREE BM !!!!! You just need to participate in Warzones. Like in the Special Olympics, doesn't matter to win, what it really matter is to take part.

 

Yet you still continue whining on the forums.

 

NERF PREMADES !!!

[Faeldawn]

Bioware gave all the whiners free BattleMaster. FREE BM !!!!! You just need to participate in Warzones. Like in the Special Olympics, doesn't matter to win, what it really matter is to take part.

 

Yet you still continue whining on the forums.

 

NERF PREMADES !!!

 

Erm....what?

[lELADRIN]

In the end it boils down to this : I PAY BIOWARE to play this game.

 

If i'm not enjoying my play time then I'll leave.

 

Bioware has to keep this in mind, all of you L2P asses out there must remember that.

 

People complained about afk'ers and quitters which is why we got these changes to pvp. Am I happy about the changes? Not fully, If i get stuck on a team with a bunch of looser's, quitters, afk'ers I get penalized with little to no rewards. I can pull down 15 medals but if my team still looses 6-0 I get nothing. Against some premade's you can't even get 1 medal let alone the 8 to get full bonus, and you get nothing.

 

For new pvp'ers and even some older ones like myself who are solo pvp'ers were getting screwed by this new rewards system most of the time. 3-8 starts, 2, 4 man teams vs 3-8 solo's ect ect is killing us. Without the Ranked WZ's the new system is punishing the solo players. This need's to be addressed asap. Either get the ranked wz's in or increase the rewards for a loss. The facerolling of decent players because of a 3-8 start of 2 premade teams vs 3 solo's has to stop NOW, not next week or the week after by then it will be too late and people will have unsubed and the situation will be even worse.

 

What most of you supporting the change's are forgetting is that without reward for you time in the game there is no reason to play. Put yourselves in the "new 50's shoes", first 50 wz vs 8 war hero's fully geared, no chance for medals, no chance at wining and get no rewards.

 

WHY WOULD YOU CONTINUE TO PAY FOR THAT KIND OF ABUSE?

 

I thankfully am not in their shoes but even though i am wining 75 - 80% of my wz's I have lost a few and seen what a really bad loss gives. Bioware needs to fix this so if you try, participate, and give it your best shot even though early on it's appearent you WILL loose you still get some rewards. Kill the valor gain or comms or credits but NOT ALL THREE. Hell Kill the XP even, as 50's we don't even need it atm. But give those who try even against insurmountable odds something instead of big fat goose egg's.