BH/trooper getting boned in 1.2

[Daxun]

How dare they make spammers learn to play their class!

 

And no, the guys that used TM and GR in their rotation to set up the debuff I'm not talking about.

 

It's the guys that literally spammed TM and GR back to back to back as long as their heat/ammo would hold out or as long as no one jumped on them. It only takes what, 2 TMs/GRs to put the 5 point debuff on if they're spec'd into it right?. Maybe 3, idk. But not 10+ in a row w/o ever using a different attack...

 

Truth is spamming it was viable and did some crazy damage in situations (groups/gear). Now this "nerf" is going to make them learn the rest of their rotation (small as it might be) in order to compete.

[Dovahbrah]

Guess what. You can still top DPS and kills with a tactic build. You just have to use more buttons. God forbid the use of more than 5 attacks, and adjusting your playstyle. In the video I posted there's a section where he plays a tactics build, and he still owns people. Sadly, the only appropriate comment here is L2P.

 

Reroll Sin / shadow IMO. They'll be FOTM untill next nerfbat. Then you'll have to reroll again. Poor you.

 

EDIT : Oh you already have a shadow. Just shelf your trooper if it's too hard to adapt. Anyways, kids that play the FOTM tend to not be top notch players. Those that can deal with a more complex rotation usually triumph. Just sayin'.

 

First off, I play tactics. I know firsthand it's not as good as Assault. Steady DPS =/= burst in PvP. Tactics is not on the level of other classes DPS builds when it comes to PvP, I'm sorry to burst your bubble. Nobody cares if you can top DPS as tactics. Anyone can top dps as tactics when they go around spamming gut on people. That's so hard, amirite?

 

Please, tell me what makes tactics any harder than the assault rotation? Oh, that's right, absolutely nothing. You mean I have to use Fire pulse every so often for a free stockstrike? I should only use HIB when the the crit proc is up? Oh man, let's crank up the skill meter.

 

No class in this game has a complex rotation, the only classes that even skim the surface are juggs/marauders. Get over yourself.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Notannos
rude

[Venrale]

First I have to laugh at all the gamers who think that being able to pump out multiple 4k crits in the span you could on a tanking class is balances, stop whining because they are fixing an already broken mechanic and second anyone who thinks Assault is superior to Tactics is stupid and doesnt know how to play a class that isnt just a Tab Doter with 1 skill that has high dps... is the tactics rotation complicated?? heck no but its got alot more too it than Assault does, in all honesty when you break it down both DPS trees equal out in a good players hands and in pvp Tactics is more useful due to its Sprint and passive dmg reduction because guess what your a FREAKING TANK your not supposed to be in the backround Tab Doting like a whimp your supposed to be in their faces and yes I know commandos have Assault line too but they dont have the Tactics one and seeing as a commando is a ranged dps it acctually suites him. Edited April 5, 2012 by Notannos
quote

[cashogy]

balancing around the use of consumables is idiotic. they then become a requirement, rather than a bonus. part of the reason medpac mechanics got changed is because they are a bonus, and the devs wanted to prevent them from becoming part of the balancing equation (ie, medpacs would become necessary to do anything).

 

 

the carolina parakeet build, or any hybrid BH build for that matter, was killed as soon as the CGC requirement was put into place for PPA procs. that is a separate change from the way PPA functions, and while i can see the validity in that decision, i do not think it was the right way to go about it.

 

the changes to PPA functionality are poorly thought out. this has been proven time and time again. bioware's lack of communication implies they do not give a dam whether or not the changes have a significant negative impact on pyrotech.

 

 

the pyrotech tree pre 1.2 is balanced. not for 1v1, but for organized team play. just like everything else in this game. some players were able to maximize their potential. the majority were not. just because a small handful of players can wield a class with devastating results does not make it OP.

[Dovahbrah]

First I have to laugh at all the gamers who think that being able to pump out multiple 4k crits in the span you could on a tanking class is balances,

 

Because that's totally a common occurrence.

 

stop whining because they are fixing an already broken mechanic

 

Nothing broken about people getting extremely lucky occasionally.

 

and second anyone who thinks Assault is superior to Tactics is stupid and doesnt know how to play a class that isnt just a Tab Doter with 1 skill that has high dps...

 

Since I disagree with you, I'm obviously a baddie. Do you even play a vanguard, let alone tactics? Or are you spewing what you think you know from a PvP video? If Assault is just for tabbers, then what makes tactics not for tabbers also? They both have a main ability that applies a DoT that is spammable, and gut even costs less. So if Assault is for tabbers, then tactics must be too, amirite?

 

Assault is superior to tactics to PvP. It has more burst, which is what is needed for PvP, especially against healers. Anyone who thinks tactics is better than Assault in its current state obviously doesn't play the class or doesn't play Assault right.

 

is the tactics rotation complicated?? heck no but its got alot more too it than Assault does,

 

Please, enlighten me as to what makes Tactics any harder than Assault's rotation? You guys keep spewing this, yet say nothing to back it up. I'm starting to think you other guys who claim to play Tactics have a false sense of superiority. You have to swap IR for Gut? You have to Swap Assault Plastique for Sticky and Fire pulse? Oh no, it's too much to handle! I have to only use HIB when my crit proc is up? And use fire pulse for free stockstrikes? Oh, and I have the ability to almost spam ion pulse at will because my energy regen is much better with High Energy Cell? IS SUCH A THING EVEN POSSIBLE??? Oh please.

 

in all honesty when you break it down both DPS trees equal out in a good players hands

 

No, they don't. A good player will get more out of Assault then he will Tactics.

 

and in pvp Tactics is more useful due to its Sprint and passive dmg reduction

 

Hold the Line is the only thing that keeps Tactics relevant. But it's not worth it by itself. And passive damage reduction? You mean the 20% we get while stunned? Give me a break.

 

because guess what your a FREAKING TANK

 

That's why we have 1 tank tree, but 2 DPS trees, amirite?

 

like a whimp your supposed to be in their faces

 

Assault is still in your face when played right.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Notannos
rude

[Faat]

Because that's totally a common occurrence.

 

 

 

Nothing broken about people getting extremely lucky occasionally.

 

 

 

Since I disagree with you, I'm obviously a baddie. Do you even play a vanguard, let alone tactics? Or are you spewing what you think you know from a PvP video? If Assault is just for tabbers, then what makes tactics not for tabbers also? They both have a main ability that applies a DoT that is spammable, and gut even costs less. So if Assault is for tabbers, then tactics must be too, amirite?

 

Assault is superior to tactics to PvP. It has more burst, which is what is needed for PvP, especially against healers. Anyone who thinks tactics is better than Assault in its current state obviously doesn't play the class or doesn't play Assault right.

 

 

 

Please, enlighten me as to what makes Tactics any harder than Assault's rotation? You guys keep spewing this, yet say nothing to back it up. I'm starting to think you other guys who claim to play Tactics have a false sense of superiority. You have to swap IR for Gut? You have to Swap Assault Plastique for Sticky and Fire pulse? Oh no, it's too much to handle! I have to only use HIB when my crit proc is up? And use fire pulse for free stockstrikes? Oh, and I have the ability to almost spam ion pulse at will because my energy regen is much better with High Energy Cell? IS SUCH A THING EVEN POSSIBLE??? Oh please.

 

 

 

No, they don't. A good player will get more out of Assault then he will Tactics.

 

 

 

Hold the Line is the only thing that keeps Tactics relevant. But it's not worth it by itself. And passive damage reduction? You mean the 20% we get while stunned? Give me a break.

 

 

 

That's why we have 1 tank tree, but 2 DPS trees, amirite?

 

Assault is still in your face when played right.

 

you're right on 1 point, but the way it is right now, an assault VG is able, with luck, to pump out crazy sustained burst that cost no resources, and even if you agree or not, they're fixing this disparity with the other trees of the class. And I honestly don't believe it's allright that the SHARED tree of 4 different ACs would be that much better than the other unique trees of the ACs.

 

And, how is tactics harder to play you ask? That's pretty simple to answer. 4m-10m range and vulnerability of having to be in that range to deal any dmg. When there's a clusterfux of AOEs, you can use assault build rotation from range and still deal a lot of dmg compared to tactics. Also, you imply scoreboard warrior tactics would be running around tab gut dottin ppl, fail. 4m range says, nope, ain't happening. Anyways that's irrelevant to the discussion.

 

that's funny that you think I'm raging because I get killed by pyros. I PLAY a VG yo. I'm xploiting the broken HiB spam right now, getting a lot of easy kills and facerolling my way to victory. I'm not worried tho, I got a good shield tank build that WTFPWN both DPS and protection charts. And even then, assault will still be good after 1.2.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Notannos
rude quote

[Dovahbrah]

you're right on 1 point (baddie)

 

Lawls.

 

but the way it is right now, an assault VG is able, with luck, to pump out crazy sustained burst

 

Thank you Cpt. Obvious.

 

that cost no resources

 

Not quite.

 

and even if you agree or not, they're fixing this disparity with the other trees of the class.

 

Buffs to tactics aren't enough to bridge the gap at the moment. Are the buffs nice? Yeah. But snares aren't the only problem with Tactics, and it's already one of the least kiteable specs in the game.

 

And I honestly don't believe it's allright that the SHARED tree of 4 different ACs would be that much better than the other unique trees of the ACs.

 

Four different ACs? What in the world are you talking about.

 

And, how is tactics harder to play you ask? That's pretty simple to answer. 4m-10m range and vulnerability of having to be in that range to deal any dmg.

 

So, apparently you've given up on the notion that Tactics has a harder rotation, good for you. So, now you've backpedaled into saying it's harder because it has to be in melee range. Again, your argument sucks, but this isn't surprising. If you're any good at Assault, you're going to be in melee quite a bit, even if you can still pump out damage at range. Both specs are optimal in melee range, so your argument is void. The idea that tactics is harder just because it relies on being in melee range a little bit more is just laughable.

 

When there's a clusterfux of AOEs, you can use assault build rotation from range and still deal a lot of dmg compared to tactics.

 

Because staying out of aoes is hard. Here's an idea: If there's a cluster of aoes, get out of the aoes and jump on the people who are aoeing? Brilliant, I know.

 

Also, you imply scoreboard warrior tactics would be running around tab gut dottin ppl, fail. 4m range says, nope, ain't happening.

 

Yes, a scoreboard warrior would spam gut in order to get higher damage, my statement stands. Lol@you for thinking it's hard to spam it just because it's a 4m range. Sorry, it's just as easy, and I've done it plenty of times for the lulz.

 

Anyways that's irrelevant to the discussion.

 

 

Agreed.

 

that's funny that you think I'm raging because I get killed by pyros. I PLAY a VG yo, l2read.

 

Statement stands.

 

I'm xploiting the broken HiB spam right now, getting a lot of easy kills and facerolling my way to victory.

 

I bet. Probably just another forum warrior who claims to play a class that he doesn't. But okay.

 

I'm not worried tho, I got a good shield tank build that WTFPWN both DPS and protection charts.

 

It's called Ironfist spec, welcome to 3 months ago, champ.

 

And even then, assault will still be good after 1.2.

 

No one said it wouldn't be, the debate is whether the nerf was necessary at all.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Notannos
rude

[Melnibonean]

Dovahbrah, you just broke that dudes post like somthing Ive seen. Bravo Edited April 5, 2012 by Melnibonean

[cashogy]

Dovahbrah, you just broke that dudes post like somthing Ive seen. Bravo

 

this. absolute forum destruction

 

still hoping that anyone from bioware, hell id be happy with a janitor at this point, would chime in on the exact reasoning behind the pyrotech nerfs. if they continue to be silent, there is only one logical explanation:

 

to paraphrase and extrapolate a GZ quote: "teams of pyrotechs are chain rail shot'ing players in warzones, and its causing people to cancel their subs"

Edited April 5, 2012 by cashogy

[QiBao]

There are 4 or 5 on my server who can kill me faster than i can get 2 instant casts off.

 

Come on, man, make your lies believable at least. You sound like the guy who used to go out with a supermodel 10 but can't produce a picture.

[QiBao]

So much fail in this thread. The six second CD for PPA seems like a knee-jerk response. It's a double hit (damage directly and damage via heat management) and I don't have confidence that BW appreciates it.

 

Sucks that PPA requires CGC now. I play Carolina Parakeet now because there is no dual spec and it's very useful for Ops to be able to tank or dps. I know I could probably get away with tanking most stuff in tank gear and dps spec, but frankly this game just needs dual spec already.

 

As a tank, CP was a nice compromise. Ops don't require 2 tanks for most fights. In PVP guard and taunt are awesome, but a tank spec only brings guard and a bit more mitigation. Awesome utility, though I suppose.

[Nezyrworks]

So much fail in this thread. The six second CD for PPA seems like a knee-jerk response. It's a double hit (damage directly and damage via heat management) and I don't have confidence that BW appreciates it.

 

Sucks that PPA requires CGC now. I play Carolina Parakeet now because there is no dual spec and it's very useful for Ops to be able to tank or dps. I know I could probably get away with tanking most stuff in tank gear and dps spec, but frankly this game just needs dual spec already.

 

As a tank, CP was a nice compromise. Ops don't require 2 tanks for most fights. In PVP guard and taunt are awesome, but a tank spec only brings guard and a bit more mitigation. Awesome utility, though I suppose.

 

This is why they are making those changes. They ARE REMOVING dual spec for sorcerer, commando, and vanguard ALIKE. This is because you should NOT be both tank and fair DPS... People seems not to understand, thats a problem. Well CP is just a good example of it.

This is the most frequent (aside from pyrotech and ironfist variations) build ran by VG/BH for pvp. I say tactics is as useful, but for different purposes.

 

I am not jelous, i had used run-a-gun and CP for quite a long time, but both didn't reflected my play style and were not suiting me well enough. Thats why rolled Tactics in which i see most of the utility. (and i am speaking of real utility - aside from hold the line which is by its own an awesome talent, we have 15% speed buff which gives us hutball scoring bonus we need, lesser cooldowns on riot strike, harpoon, cryo grenade - and yes even 20% damage reduction while stuned is a good source of extended survivability - but the guy above was thinking of the flat 2% mitigation - which in my opinion is not that usefull).

 

Arguing about superiority of one above the other is utter bullcrap. They both bring something to the table. You seem not to notice the most obvious fact that tactic HEC build is playing around elemental damage which makes tanks equally squishy as LA healers. You seems to also forget that our potential lays in AOE, not single target burst. This being said you can push 300-450k damage on voidstar with Champion set not sweating to much.

 

I have one more comparison to make. I was long ago playing enhancement shaman with 2h weapon (viable post TBC). Blizz introduced interior 3sec cooldown on windfury weapon proc to prevent me from killing best geared arena 3 prot/shock-adin in 3 seconds period.

 

And this is EXACLY the same case. People are QQing because of the nerf but what they DONT seem to understand is that you can actually proc free HIB every IP which is a devastating power. So good on its own that if you also put SG and a SS on a guy he is bursted BEFORE actually having time to react. You will always complain when power is taken from you, even if it is done as a part of balancing other trees of your own class. What frightens me is the immature attitude toward any reasonable changes made.

 

Stop arguing and think of it.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Nezyrworks

[Ryotknife]

This is why they are making those changes. They ARE REMOVING dual spec for sorcerer, commando, and vanguard ALIKE. This is because you should NOT be both tank and fair DPS... People seems not to understand, thats a problem. Well CP is just a good example of it.

This is the most frequent (aside from pyrotech and ironfist variations) build ran by VG/BH for pvp. I say tactics is as useful, but for different purposes.

 

I am not jelous, i had used run-a-gun and CP for quite a long time, but both didn't reflected my play style and were not suiting me well enough. Thats why rolled Tactics in which i see most of the utility. (and i am speaking of real utility - aside from hold the line which is by its own an awesome talent, we have 15% speed buff which gives us hutball scoring bonus we need, lesser cooldowns on riot strike, harpoon, cryo grenade).

 

Arguing about superiority of one above the other is utter bullcrap. They both bring something to the table. You seem not to notice the most obvious fact that tactic HEC build is playing around elemental damage which makes tanks equally squishy as LA healers. You seems to also forget that our potential lays in AOE, not single target burst. This being said you can push 300-450k damage on voidstar with Champion set not sweating to much.

 

I have one more comparison to make. I was long ago playing enhancement shaman with 2h weapon (viable post TBC). Blizz introduced interior 3sec cooldown on windfury weapon proc to prevent me from killing best geared arena 3 prot/shock-adin in 3 seconds period.

 

And this is EXACLY the same case. People are QQing because of the nerf but what they DONT seem to understand is that you can actually proc free HIB every IP which is a devastating power. So good on its own that if you also put SG and a SS on a guy he is bursted BEFORE actually having time to react.

 

Stop arguing and think of it.

 

A. shieldtech pts are worthless in pvp

 

B. windfury is passive, you do not spend all of your resources trying to get a triple windfury crit.

 

C. 50% of enh talents did not revolve around windfury

 

D. enh shamans were utter crap for the rest of the expansion, and for the rest of wow really with a few exceptions.

 

i have no problem with removing the burst, the issue i have is that the entire pyro tree revolves around railshot and getting railshots, meaning that for 6 seconds after i railshot, my entire spec is nearly worthless. most of the pyro attacks are CRAP by themselves, their only saving grace is that they are useful towards railshot.

 

the entire pyro tree needs to be redesigned if they really want to keep this change to move it from away from a proc dependent spec.

 

and yes, a pyro can achieve 400k in voidstar, but the easiest way to do that is with gaurd or heals, otherwise the pyro will be spending most of the match in the spawn area as he is one of the squishest spec in the game

Edited April 5, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Nezyrworks]

A. shieldtech pts are worthless in pvp

 

B. windfury is passive, you do not spend all of your resources trying to get a triple windfury crit.

 

C. 50% of enh talents did not revolve around windfury

 

D. enh shamans were utter crap for the rest of the expansion, and for the rest of wow really with a few exceptions.

 

i have no problem with removing the burst, the issue i have is that the entire pyro tree revolves around railshot and getting railshots, meaning that for 6 seconds after i railshot, my entire spec is nearly worthless. most of the pyro attacks are CRAP by themselves, their only saving grace is that they are useful towards railshot.

 

the entire pyro tree needs to be redesigned if they really want to keep this change to move it from away from a proc dependent spec.

 

and yes, a pyro can achieve 400k in voidstar, but the easiest way to do that is with gaurd or heals, otherwise the pyro will be spending most of the match in the spawn area as he is one of the squishest spec in the game

 

I was the best shaman in my battlegroup. Dishing 12k windfury to protpala with a single burst. This was due to slowest possible speed of my crafted 2h mace which had a good 4 sec stun proc. You could after initial WF proc resolve another one from stormstrike with the same effect which was killing anything that standed on your way. Yes it was VERY squishy build, but it was just OP in terms of damage. The rest of the group for my 3v3 were also shamans. Elemental for range capabilities and resto for chainheal spam (two taurens to stomp and one troll me - to rage to increase dmg up to another 20%). We were losing sometimes, but that was rather due lag, or dc.

 

Of course pyro can get 400k - and much more. and yes its squishy. it will be subpar to HEC build i think after 1.2. I am not after assault as a build (i don;t think longer IC on PC is necessary, but the free HIB should never the less be crippled.

[Haeso]

An internal cooldown was a fine idea - personally I would have preferred 4.5-6 seconds with 100% chance to proc PPA. They simply didn't adjust the chance high enough for the excessively long internal cooldown.

[Ryotknife]

I was the best shaman in my battlegroup. Dishing 12k windfury to protpala with a single burst. This was due to slowest possible speed of my crafted 2h mace which had a good 4 sec stun proc. You could after initial WF proc resolve another one from stormstrike with the same effect which was killing anything that standed on your way. Yes it was VERY squishy build, but it was just OP in terms of damage. The rest of the group for my 3v3 were also shamans. Elemental for range capabilities and resto for chainheal spam (two taurens to stomp and one troll me - to rage to increase dmg up to another 20%). We were losing sometimes, but that was rather due lag, or dc.

 

Of course pyro can get 400k - and much more. and yes its squishy. it will be subpar to HEC build i think after 1.2. I am not after assault as a build (i don;t think longer IC on PC is necessary, but the free HIB should never the less be crippled.

 

okay...but in your example enhancement shamans were utterly neutered for years after the windfury change. was triple windfury bull? yes. it rarely happened. but it was literally the spec's saving grace. granted enh spec talents did not revolve around windfury like pyro does for railshot.

 

what they are doing now, if we were to put it in wow terms, would be more like a destro warlock (a nuke heavy spec) who had all of his nukes be half as effective after he uses conflagerate.

 

what i would have liked to see is scrap the whole proc idea entirely, make the talent reduce railshot cd to 6 seconds, and buff incendary missile and flameburst. incendiary missile is a complete joke right now, none of the other damage abilities ive used on any of my alts can compare to how crappy IM is, and its a talent. as for flameburst, it crits for under 2k, so buffing that wouldnt be a big problem so long as they dont go nuts.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Faat]

Lawls.

 

 

 

Thank you Cpt. Obvious.

 

 

 

Not quite.

 

 

 

Buffs to tactics aren't enough to bridge the gap at the moment. Are the buffs nice? Yeah. But snares aren't the only problem with Tactics, and it's already one of the least kiteable specs in the game.

 

 

 

Four different ACs? What in the world are you talking about.

 

Commando, Vanguard, Mercenary, Powertech = 4 ACs all specced assault or pyrotech = something smells like imba.

 

So, apparently you've given up on the notion that Tactics has a harder rotation, good for you. So, now you've backpedaled into saying it's harder because it has to be in melee range. Again, your argument sucks, but this isn't surprising. If you're any good at Assault, you're going to be in melee quite a bit, even if you can still pump out damage at range. Both specs are optimal in melee range, so your argument is void. The idea that tactics is harder just because it relies on being in melee range a little bit more is just laughable.

 

L2read. I never backed of, I proved it's harder to deal DPS with tactics build. Ohh what do you do when your grapple is on cooldown and you have to close gap ? Hammer shot spam, use Hold the line or explosive round spam. Neither of those skills deal good damage.

 

Because staying out of aoes is hard. Here's an idea: If there's a cluster of aoes, get out of the aoes and jump on the people who are aoeing? Brilliant, I know.

 

perhaps if you actually play the game, you know that you'll get rooted in place, stunned when in face of an ennemy, and thus, vulnerable to AoEs. With an assault build, you start your rotation from range and chances are you won't end caught rooted or stunned in a dangerous position, or less often

 

Yes, a scoreboard warrior would spam gut in order to get higher damage, my statement stands. Lol@you for thinking it's hard to spam it just because it's a 4m range. Sorry, it's just as easy, and I've done it plenty of times for the lulz.

 

Dot is weak and don't interrupt caps, it's even more idiotic that you admit you did exactly that to pad your damage on the scoreboard. Seriously, I'm just wasting time arguing with idiots on here.

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

Statement stands.

 

 

 

I bet. Probably just another forum warrior who claims to play a class that he doesn't. But okay.

 

Hmmk, vanguard is the only class I play these days. Believe me or not. Assault HiB spam spam is OP.

 

It's called Ironfist spec, welcome to 3 months ago, champ.

 

Who cares, it's still a viable spec, and I much rather play my tank as a tank instead of a gimmick DPS that's obviously broken. Better ammo management, better DPS, being able to start the whole rotation from range. Only people blinded by the anger of being nerfed can't see the disparity.

 

No one said it wouldn't be, the debate is whether the nerf was necessary at all.

 

But it is, a good player playing assault / pyro will always be more efficient at bursting people down (while wearing heavy armor) from range, compared to other bursty melee DPS classes and specs that have to be in melee range to do anything

 

You seem to be doing that quite a bit.

 

I'm only here to call a spade a spade and seeing all those clueless doomsayers spewing idiotic theorycrafts, I had to correct their claims with video evidence (watch the vid I posted, a VG beating people 1v1, 2v1 LAWLS, bursting nubs in 3 GCDs, etc). Perhaps it's that you're not that good and unable to do the same, while I do and think it's unfair for my opponents. In all the games I play I always submit feedback and try to balance things out so all classes are more or less equal. You obviously want to keep your FOTM spec position, and since they're nerfing it, It's most likely that you're the QQer around here.

 

 

Read between your lines. Or just don't, understanding balance in MMOs is probably out of your reach. Can't wait to read all the QQ in GW2...

Edited April 5, 2012 by Faat

[Dovahbrah]

Commando, Vanguard, Mercenary, Powertech = 4 ACs all specced assault or pyrotech = something smells like imba.

 

Why would you list 2 ACs and then their mirrors? That's just stupid.

 

 

L2read. I never backed of

 

Yes, you did. You said nothing about the Tactics rotation being harder, because it's not, so you backed off. Then you tried to say it's harder because it has to be in melee more often.

 

 

I proved it's harder to deal DPS with tactics build

 

No, you didn't. Merely saying something isn't proof. It's just as easy, and until you elaborate as to why it's harder, you're wrong. Brb fire pulse and gut is so much harder.

 

Ohh what do you do when your grapple is on cooldown and you have to close gap Hammer shot spam, use Hold the line or explosive round spam.

 

Grapple has a 35 second cooldown with Tactics. If it's down and you're having to chase someone, you obviously used it at the wrong time. Even if it is down, that's no excuse for being kited or having to catch up as Tactics. You have 15% run speed with HEC and Hold the Line. You're one of the least kitable specs in the game. Having to catch up shows that you're doing it wrong. In the direst of circumstances, you use Hammershot, HIB or Sticky grenade while catching up. Forgot those two skills, didn't you?

 

Again, if you're being kited as Tactics, you're doing it wrong.

 

perhaps if you actually play the game, you know that you'll get rooted in place, stunned when in face of an ennemy, and thus, vulnerable to AoEs.

 

Because using your CC breaker + Hold the Line is hard. If you put yourself in a position to be hit by a ton of AoEs in the first place, you're doing it wrong.

 

With an assault build, you start your rotation from range and chances are you won't end caught rooted or stunned in a dangerous position, or less often

 

Okay? Irrelevant, because the spec is optimal in melee range, just like Tactics.

 

Dot is weak and don't interrupt caps

 

Irrelevant. And no, gut isn't that weak.

 

it's even more idiotic that you admit you did exactly that to pad your damage on the scoreboard

 

Not really, it just goes to show high damage as Tactics literally means nothing.

 

Seriously, I'm just wasting time arguing with idiots on here.

 

Irony.

 

Hmmk, vanguard is the only class I play these days. Believe me or not. Assault HiB spam spam is OP.

 

Don't believe you, but okay. Sound like a butthurt sorc.

 

 

Who cares

 

Obviously you do, since you thought for some reason that you created some super-awesome spec.

 

it's still a viable spec

 

We know.

 

and I much rather play my tank as a tank

 

Yeah, that's why Vanguards have 2 DPS specs and 1 tank spec. We're totally meant to be exclusively tanks.

 

instead of a gimmick DPS that's obviously broken

 

You obviously don't understand the definition of gimmick.

 

Better ammo management, better DPS, being able to start the whole rotation from range.

 

Better ammo management than Tactics? Now I've heard it all. Lol@you saying you play a Vanguard, give it up.

 

Only people blinded by the anger of being nerfed can't see the disparity.

 

Hardly blinded, I'm talking quite rationally. The disparity exists because Tactics sucks, not because Assault is overpowered.

 

 

But it is, a good player playing assault / pyro will always be more efficient at bursting people down (while wearing heavy armor) from range, compared to other bursty melee DPS classes and specs that have to be in melee range to do anything

 

As if Heavy armor really means anything in PvP for this game. A Vanguard who remains strictly at range will not be better at bursting anyone down, you're kidding yourself. The spec is dependent upon being in melee, just not as much as Tactics. Without melee, or 10m range, you're unable to reset your HIB, which is what the spec is all about.

 

 

(watch the vid I posted, a VG beating people 1v1, 2v1 LAWLS, bursting nubs in 3 GCDs, etc)

 

You said it yourself, the people he plays are noobs. A Tactics VG isn't going to be 2v1ing competent players. Plus this is a team game, and Tactics will be on healer lock-down while the real DPS do the DPSing.

 

Perhaps it's that you're not that good and unable to do the same

 

Anyone can kill multiple bad players.

 

while I do and think it's unfair for my opponents

 

You either get extremely lucky with procs, or your opponents are bad. But, you probably don't play a Vanguard, so oh well.

 

In all the games I play I always submit feedback and try to balance things out so all classes are more or less equal. You obviously want to keep your FOTM spec position, and since they're nerfing it, It's most likely that you're the QQer around here.

 

You do realize what FOTM means, right? Because I'm pretty sure Marauders/Sents hold that position at the moment. I'm not the one QQing, I'm using rational arguments, not "lol I killed this guy in 6 seconds once, we're totally OP lolol".

 

Read between your lines. Or just don't, understanding balance in MMOs is probably out of your reach. Can't wait to read all the QQ in GW2...

 

Irony.

[Dovahbrah]

An internal cooldown was a fine idea - personally I would have preferred 4.5-6 seconds with 100% chance to proc PPA. They simply didn't adjust the chance high enough for the excessively long internal cooldown.

 

Agreed. They put in an ICD without doing anything to make up for it.

[Drexorn]

Is the nerf necessary? In the eyes of a pyro PT who just pvps... probably. I can beat just about every class 1on1. Stealths are tough if they catch me and my cd's aren't up, but that's how a stealth should be. I can take out sages/sorcs, sents/maras, juggs/guards, and especially mercs almost every time 1v1 if i'm close to them.

 

Being objective, I probably am a bit OP. Like I said above though, i'm not too worried about this nerf, it's not "OMG HUGELY GAMEBREAKING!!!11!" like some people are making it out to be. Those with the skill will overcome and still be able to do well in PvP, just have to manage heat a little more now.

[Theology]

Is the nerf necessary? In the eyes of a pyro PT who just pvps... probably. I can beat just about every class 1on1. Stealths are tough if they catch me and my cd's aren't up, but that's how a stealth should be. I can take out sages/sorcs, sents/maras, juggs/guards, and especially mercs almost every time 1v1 if i'm close to them.

 

Being objective, I probably am a bit OP. Like I said above though, i'm not too worried about this nerf, it's not "OMG HUGELY GAMEBREAKING!!!11!" like some people are making it out to be. Those with the skill will overcome and still be able to do well in PvP, just have to manage heat a little more now.

 

I'll look for you after 1.2 lands on these forums exclaiming how bad your spec is now. I don't think you understand the magnitude of this nerf as far as PVP is concerned.

[Faat]

Is the nerf necessary? In the eyes of a pyro PT who just pvps... probably. I can beat just about every class 1on1. Stealths are tough if they catch me and my cd's aren't up, but that's how a stealth should be. I can take out sages/sorcs, sents/maras, juggs/guards, and especially mercs almost every time 1v1 if i'm close to them.

 

Being objective, I probably am a bit OP. Like I said above though, i'm not too worried about this nerf, it's not "OMG HUGELY GAMEBREAKING!!!11!" like some people are making it out to be. Those with the skill will overcome and still be able to do well in PvP, just have to manage heat a little more now.

 

Finally someone lucid that shares my opinion.

 

I also think that facerolling with multiple procs in a row, each and every single one of them costing 0 resources and instead, giving back 1, is just broken. But we'll have angry kids coming soon to tell us we're wrong, of course. Those who are unable to chain 4.5k crits right now, will probably just want to reroll after 1.2. Sad when you remove kids their favorite toys, how angry they get, even if it's for the better.

[Faat]

I'll look for you after 1.2 lands on these forums exclaiming how bad your spec is now. I don't think you understand the magnitude of this nerf as far as PVP is concerned.

 

Did you test on PTS ?

 

What are the results of your testing ? Do you have a spreadsheet calculating your overall damage and burst ? Did you submit feedback to the devs after all this intensive testing ?

 

... crickets ...

[Ryotknife]

Finally someone lucid that shares my opinion.

 

I also think that facerolling with multiple procs in a row, each and every single one of them costing 0 resources and instead, giving back 1, is just broken. But we'll have angry kids coming soon to tell us we're wrong, of course. Those who are unable to chain 4.5k crits right now, will probably just want to reroll after 1.2. Sad when you remove kids their favorite toys, how angry they get, even if it's for the better.

 

....

 

you realize that getting two railshot procs that crit is like getting 4 attacks in a row that crit right?

 

there is roughly a 13.5% chance of getting a double railshot proc

there is roughly a 3% chance to get a double railshot proc, and both of them critting.

 

and without free railshots, pyros would have horrendous heat management to the point where they would have to autoattack two times everytime they use 1 special ability. in other words, 66% of their attacks would be rapid shots (basic/auto attack)

 

pyros will live without the burst from a double proc.

 

what they will not be able to live with is the cut to their sustained, their resources, and the fact that after the proc they have nothing worthwhile to attack with as half of their spec talents revolves around railshot, which they wont be able to use for at least 7.5 seconds.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Faat]

....

 

you realize that getting two railshot procs that crit is like getting 4 attacks in a row that crit right?

 

there is roughly a 13.5% chance of getting a double railshot proc

there is roughly a 3% chance to get a double railshot proc, and both of them critting.

 

and without free railshots, pyros would have horrendous heat management to the point where they would have to autoattack two times everytime they use 1 special ability. in other words, 66% of their attacks would be rapid shots (basic/auto attack)

 

Another poster I have to stand corrected and inform about resources management tools at your disposal. You can

 

1) spec the ability to recover 1 resource when you're CCed (wich happens quite often)

2) you have to use your free resource buff (reserve powercell for vanguards) before using incendiary round, and you can specc to shrten the cooldown of it.

3) you can spec to shorten the cooldown of recharge cells.

4) you'll still get free HiBs and 1 resource back if the ennemy is on fire.

 

I know I know, some of these points could've been spent on damage buffs in the other trees. But think about it 1 sec. If you were able to play the specc without using any of these things, it was a symptom of something not really working as intended. At some point, you HAVE to run out of resources, if not, just get rid of the resources pool system altogether.

 

Ohh noes, 3% less elemental damage for more resources. or 3 % less aim. LOL