BH/trooper getting boned in 1.2

[Dovahbrah]

There are 4 or 5 on my server who can kill me faster than i can get 2 instant casts off.

 

Lol, okay.

[Drexorn]

Is this what everyone is complaining about?

 

Prototype Particle Accelerator now requires Combustible Gas Cylinder to trigger. The chance to trigger this effect has been increased significantly but cannot trigger more than once every 6 seconds.

 

I'm PT/pyro, and i'm ok with this. Chance to trigger has gone up... so it will happen probably every almost every time we want it to.

 

I think we'll just have to adjust our playstyle a little, instead of spamming Flame Burst to proc it, we throw in some other things like Rapid/Hammer shots even. We'll just have to mentally count down 6s to work in our rocket punch, etc...

 

I'm not too worried about it really.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Drexorn

[cashogy]

Is this what everyone is complaining about?

 

Prototype Particle Accelerator now requires Combustible Gas Cylinder to trigger. The chance to trigger this effect has been increased significantly but cannot trigger more than once every 6 seconds.

 

I'm PT/pyro, and i'm ok with this. Chance to trigger has gone up... so it will happen probably every almost every time we want it to.

 

I think we'll just have to adjust our playstyle a little, instead of spamming Flame Burst to proc it, we throw in some other things like Rapid/Hammer shots even. We'll just have to mentally count down 6s to work in our rocket punch, etc...

 

I'm not too worried about it really.

 

the point is this change was never even necessary. its already been proven by multiple people that this change is going to make pyrotech's already mediocre heat management(in comparison with other BH trees) even worse.

 

the only evidence supporting this change is the anecdotal accounts from bads on the forums, and they are laced with extereme amounts of hyperbole. for some reason, bioware finds these credible sources and have made changes based on them.

 

operative got nerfed because the masses demanded it. the same thing is happening to pyrotech.

[Wilsu_Addar]

Is this what everyone is complaining about?

 

Prototype Particle Accelerator now requires Combustible Gas Cylinder to trigger. The chance to trigger this effect has been increased significantly but cannot trigger more than once every 6 seconds.

 

I'm PT/pyro, and i'm ok with this. Chance to trigger has gone up... so it will happen probably every almost every time we want it to.

 

I think we'll just have to adjust our playstyle a little, instead of spamming Flame Burst to proc it, we throw in some other things like Rapid/Hammer shots even. We'll just have to mentally count down 6s to work in our rocket punch, etc...

 

I'm not too worried about it really.

 

Actually, mathematically on average it will take 2-3 attempts before it will proc, not "every time we want it to" and it also doesn't eliminate the bad RNG from happening (you could go four, five, or ten attempts without a proc still). I don't think most Pyro PT's would have a problem with this if they made it a guarantee to proc.

 

This destroys our heat management, which was poor to begin with.

 

- W.

[Faat]

Actually, mathematically on average it will take 2-3 attempts before it will proc, not "every time we want it to" and it also doesn't eliminate the bad RNG from happening (you could go four, five, or ten attempts without a proc still). I don't think most Pyro PT's would have a problem with this if they made it a guarantee to proc.

 

This destroys our heat management, which was poor to begin with.

 

- W.

 

You are just full of it.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801.1

 

ok, tell me wich of these trees have the best ammo management.

 

1) The shield tree needs shield procs, and 50% of these shield procs (20% on white hits) gives you 1 ammo. Lame. Uneffective most of the time, unless you have multiple ennemies attacking you, and even then, there is an internal cooldown. Then you have the garbage skill up the tree, not worth all those points for 1 ammo / 15 sec.

 

2) The tactics tree needs you to use High energy cell, wich is not that good. 1 ammo every 6 seconds. Not bad, but being tied to that cell is lame. You also can get free SS with a proc. Again, 1 ammo every 6 secs is good, free SS is good, BUT, look at next tree.

 

3) The OMGNEEEERFED assault tree. You gain 1 ammo when you're CCed. You reduce recharge cells cooldown by 30s. You reduce reserve powercell's cooldown when you crit. You gain a free HiB when ionic accelerator procs (with an internal cooldown in 1.2). That tree still HAS the best ammo management next patch. Clever use of reserve powercell (before using incendiary round) and shorter cooldown, recharge cell shorter cooldown, and the amount of time you're CCed, and with the amount of procs you can get, this will still be the best ammo management of the class.

 

If you think ammo management is bad in assault tree, what do you think of the others ? Think before spewing BS. I almost never run out of ammo in assault spec. You're probably one of those baddies that only use DPS perks in trees, or that don't use reserve powercell before using your 3 ammo abilities, or that keeps spamming ion pulses when getting no procs with 5/12 ammo or less. Just a hint : using those ammo management tools will do a great increse to your DPS, especially the ammo gain on CC and reserve powercell before using incendiary rounds. Also, incendiary round isn't needed to be used on every single target, you can make your target burn simply by using ion pulse. It's a baddie skill only useful when you can't close gap from 30m range.

 

In that regards, L2P. That'll help.

[radbass]

i was excited that my thread had been resurrected... until i saw that the necromancer was nerdraging lol

[Faat]

i was excited that my thread had been resurrected... until i saw that the necromancer was nerdraging lol

 

I don't know, I re-read that OP and it's mindnumbing to say the least.

 

Only idiots believe 1.2 completely guts the class. It had to be said. TM mercs nerfed ROFL, heat management fail OMG. THE END OF THE WORLD...

[cashogy]

i was excited that my thread had been resurrected... until i saw that the necromancer was nerdraging lol

 

lol

 

disappointing to see bioware still silent on this issue. in fact i dont think theyve commented on any of the feedback for any class changes in 1.2. just sad.....

 

this is not a good direction for this game. nerfing a skill tree because some people whine on the forums, with nothing but anecdotal evidence, is setting a terrible precedent for the future of SWTOR

[Scoobings]

and then sin become useless in pvp the reason people are going tank in dps is gear is so they can live on my sin as deception i get 3.5k crits as darkness i get 2.5k with an empowered shock using recklessness i do less damage i just have more survivabilty if you never darkness' damage a sin is worse off then how bad people are claiming ops are because sin are more substained damage not burst and deflection is the most useless defence ever

 

Maybe in crap gear? Then you get a chainshock proc and that ends up being 3.7k K.

[radbass]

Maybe in crap gear? Then you get a chainshock proc and that ends up being 3.7k K.

 

again. the problem lies in the gear, not the skill tree. ANY class can tank in dps gear and be OP. not just assassins. if they mess with the skill tree it will make assassins vastly inferior as pve tanks, and you CANNOT break half the game to fix the other half.

 

they need to stop messing with skill trees period. they just keep making it worse and worse. i saw much more class variety a month ago than i am seeing now.

 

but AGAIN, this is a BH/TROOPER QQ thread NOT an assassin QQ thread lol

[Scoobings]

again. the problem lies in the gear, not the skill tree. ANY class can tank in dps gear and be OP. not just assassins. if they mess with the skill tree it will make assassins vastly inferior as pve tanks, and you CANNOT break half the game to fix the other half.

 

they need to stop messing with skill trees period. they just keep making it worse and worse. i saw much more class variety a month ago than i am seeing now.

 

but AGAIN, this is a BH/TROOPER QQ thread NOT an assassin QQ thread lol

 

Yeah, I just got sucked up in it because you're being silly But you're right, not the point of the thread so I'm going to stop arguing with you.

 

I agree more or less with the assessment here, although I don't know if it will be totally game breaking. I don't think the "problem" people had with pyrotechs was that you could railshot as much as we do. I think the problem was how much it hit for with the frequency. Maybe if they had just toned down the damage a little bit with the talents higher up in the tree it would have been a more successful adjustment.

 

As it stands right now, they are messing with our resource management and that's a very dangerous game to play with any class. Especially one with as starved as powertechs can be with bad RNG.

[Faat]

again. the problem lies in the gear, not the skill tree. ANY class can tank in dps gear and be OP. not just assassins. if they mess with the skill tree it will make assassins vastly inferior as pve tanks, and you CANNOT break half the game to fix the other half.

 

they need to stop messing with skill trees period. they just keep making it worse and worse. i saw much more class variety a month ago than i am seeing now.

 

but AGAIN, this is a BH/TROOPER QQ thread NOT an assassin QQ thread lol

 

With respect, keep QQing, here's a vid of non-optimal assault VG playstyle (notice the lack of reserve powercell use and the unecessary incendiary round on every rotation, that's how you end up wothout ammo after a while if you're unlucky).

 

I don't know. Anyone able to use 5 abilities can do this. I particularly like the 12k dmg in 2 GCD part (around 2:50). Guess, what ? It can happen every single time one pops expertise adrenal + relic + crit buff. Also, this is dmg from just 1 HiB + AP + SS, not counting the sustained burst happening after if he gets a few procs. But anyways, it didn't happen, because that ennemy was dead in 3 GCD. The 1.2 patch don't remove the ability to deal that burst, and it really dosen't mess much ammo management. GET REAL.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Faat

[radbass]

Yeah, I just got sucked up in it because you're being silly But you're right, not the point of the thread so I'm going to stop arguing with you.

 

I agree more or less with the assessment here, although I don't know if it will be totally game breaking. I don't think the "problem" people had with pyrotechs was that you could railshot as much as we do. I think the problem was how much it hit for with the frequency. Maybe if they had just toned down the damage a little bit with the talents higher up in the tree it would have been a more successful adjustment.

 

As it stands right now, they are messing with our resource management and that's a very dangerous game to play with any class. Especially one with as starved as powertechs can be with bad RNG.

 

i can agree with that.

 

honestly, and lets be real here, pyro IS op. my lvl 30 guildy does over 250k dmg in every warzone, and he broke 300k the other day.

 

HOWEVER, they have gone about fixing it completely wrong. they should have maybe given rail a 10% damage debuff, or simply made the free railshot do less damage (an extreme example is inquisitor's chainshock, which adds a chance for shock to trigger a second shock, but the second shock only does 50% dmg)

 

Or they should have put more thought into the nerf and guaranteed the proc instead of maintaining a degree of unreliability. for most specs, the core proc is guaranteed once you put all the talent points into it.

 

but in its current stage, they have broken pyro resource management. and a dps spec with broken resource management is a broken spec period.

[radbass]

With respect, keep QQing, here's a vid of non-optimal assault VG playstyle (notice the lack of reserve powercell use and the unecessary incendiary round on every rotation, that's how you end up wothout ammo after a while if you're unlucky).

 

I don't know. Anyone able to use 5 abilities can do this. I particularly like the 12k dmg in 2 GCD part (around 2:50). Guess, what ? It can happen every single time one pops expertise adrenal + relic + crit buff. Also, this is dmg from just 1 HiB + AP + SS, not counting the sustained burst happening after if he gets a few procs. But anyways, it didn't happen, because that ennemy was dead in 3 GCD. The 1.2 patch don't remove the ability to deal that burst, and it really dosen't mess much ammo management. GET REAL.

 

heres an idea.... stop watching videos and try the class for urself. then act like you know what ur talking about. i dont have a main as a pyro but iv tried the class and those free railshots are integral.

[Scoobings]

With respect, keep QQing, here's a vid of non-optimal assault VG playstyle (notice the lack of reserve powercell use and the unecessary incendiary round on every rotation, that's how you end up wothout ammo after a while if you're unlucky).

 

I don't know. Anyone able to use 5 abilities can do this. I particularly like the 12k dmg in 2 GCD part (around 2:50). Guess, what ? It can happen every single time one pops expertise adrenal + relic + crit buff. Also, this is dmg from just 1 HiB + AP + SS, not counting the sustained burst happening after if he gets a few procs. But anyways, it didn't happen, because that ennemy was dead in 3 GCD. The 1.2 patch don't remove the ability to deal that burst, and it really dosen't mess much ammo management. GET REAL.

 

That video is blocked for me

 

It does mess with ammo management because it limits the amount of procs. So to say it doesn't is just straight up not true.

 

It could be, since I haven't tried it on the PTR, that it doesn't effect it much. I'm just raising an eyebrow because I feel like it's dangerous territory to tread on when it comes to messing with a class' resource that is so heavily relient on RNG.

 

I'm certainly not doomsaying though. Just raising concerns. Especially because, as you say, it doesn't really curtail our burst that much. So people are still going to QQ. IMO they should have made the adjustment to the higher talents in Pyrotech that increased railshot damage.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Scoobings

[cashogy]

With respect, keep QQing, here's a vid of non-optimal assault VG playstyle (notice the lack of reserve powercell use and the unecessary incendiary round on every rotation, that's how you end up wothout ammo after a while if you're unlucky).

 

I don't know. Anyone able to use 5 abilities can do this. I particularly like the 12k dmg in 2 GCD part (around 2:50). Guess, what ? It can happen every single time one pops expertise adrenal + relic + crit buff. Also, this is dmg from just 1 HiB + AP + SS, not counting the sustained burst happening after if he gets a few procs. But anyways, it didn't happen, because that ennemy was dead in 3 GCD. The 1.2 patch don't remove the ability to deal that burst, and it really dosen't mess much ammo management. GET REAL.

 

who the hell cares about a non-optimal play style? do you even know what that means? if youre going to even bother playing with a non-optimal play style, youre just bad.

 

performance of abilities while using consumables is irrelevant. they are available to any class and allow any class to have drastically increased performance for 25 seconds out of every 3 minutes. yes, with consumables a pyrotech can burn down a target stupidly fast. but so can any other class using consumables

[Faat]

who the hell cares about a non-optimal play style? do you even know what that means? if youre going to even bother playing with a non-optimal play style, youre just bad.

 

performance of abilities while using consumables is irrelevant. they are available to any class and allow any class to have drastically increased performance for 25 seconds out of every 3 minutes. yes, with consumables a pyrotech can burn down a target stupidly fast. but so can any other class using consumables

 

Why do you think any class gets nerfed ? Because of how they perform, compared to other classes, under any circumstances. Yes, balancing a class for when you use consummables is part of balance. So, you either tweak consummables, or tweak abilities if they create a situation where a player gets absolutely destroyed too fast. In the end, I trust the developper more than forum QQers. I KNOW first hand how good assault specc is.

 

And in that video, it is questionnable playstyle. Obviously, the player (it's not me) is not terrible, but after most fights his ammo is really low. If you use my ammo management advices the other posts you'll never run out of ammo and will be able to deal sustained burst DPS if you're lucky with procs, untill 1.2 hits. At 1.2, they'll kill sustained burst, but that's what is OP to begin with, free hard hitting HiBs with assault plastiques and DoTs preloaded.

 

What you can see in the vid I posted is 12k burst in 2 GCD. OPs got nerfed because they were doing approximately the same, all while chain stunning their opponent. So, imagine a scene like this. I preload incendiary round + assault plastique, then use my 4s stun (pop consummables), then High impact bolt, then Stockstrike. That's exactly the SAME type of broken burst OPs were doing pre-nerf, and your target dies during the stun. Fact of the matter is, OPs need to use stuns, VG / PT don't because they're ranged and have way more mitigation and don't require 4m range.

 

LAWL if you can't see why it's getting nerfed. Just LAWL.

 

heum, the burst ain't even getting nerfed LAWL. Still gonna have a lot of QQ on pyro PT and assault VG. Wait 'till more players have them fully geared.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Faat

[Nezyrworks]

With respect, keep QQing, here's a vid of non-optimal assault VG playstyle (notice the lack of reserve powercell use and the unecessary incendiary round on every rotation, that's how you end up wothout ammo after a while if you're unlucky).

 

I don't know. Anyone able to use 5 abilities can do this. I particularly like the 12k dmg in 2 GCD part (around 2:50). Guess, what ? It can happen every single time one pops expertise adrenal + relic + crit buff. Also, this is dmg from just 1 HiB + AP + SS, not counting the sustained burst happening after if he gets a few procs. But anyways, it didn't happen, because that ennemy was dead in 3 GCD. The 1.2 patch don't remove the ability to deal that burst, and it really dosen't mess much ammo management. GET REAL.

 

+1

 

I am vanguard 50 playing ONLY pvp since the begining. free HIB can proc like mad. I had situations when i had SG/HIB/IP/Free HIB/SS/Free HB/IP/free HIB... which was just amazing. After poping rakata+crit buff+relic i was maaad. The downside of this was far worse survivability and utility for team pvp than full tactics.

 

You guys are crying because A) you are not knowing your class, or B) you just want to troll on the forum.

 

This nerf hits Hybrids which should be done, because it discourages Tanks who are also DPS (you SHOULD NOT be BOTH). It also nerfs tac/assa "run'a'gun" build overplayed by Oozo.

 

Now to discourage you even further tactic build is going to have more love

Edited April 4, 2012 by Nezyrworks

[eanamdar]

As I've said before, this nerf approach is the wrong way to deal with this. Not only is normal play getting messed up, but it will just create a new group of classes that will be seen as needing balancing. This cycle will be endless, continuing until the game is ruined. I've seen this happen in one MMO after another, and the devs never learn from these disasters.

[Soul_of_Flames]

If its broken after 1.2, they will fix it in a future patch. Play, learn, and submit feedback. There is no use crying about something we haven't experienced yet.

[Nezyrworks]

As I've said before, this nerf approach is the wrong way to deal with this. Not only is normal play getting messed up, but it will just create a new group of classes that will be seen as needing balancing. This cycle will be endless, continuing until the game is ruined. I've seen this happen in one MMO after another, and the devs never learn from these disasters.

 

Utter lie. This approach in case of "Carolina Parakeet", "Run-a-gun" and Assault is fully right. I am vanguard and im proud of saying that. NOONE SHOULD BE TANK AND DPS at the same time. It will also DISCOURAGE PEOPLE from doing only ONE RIGHTFUL DPS build, which actually was a nobrainer. It will make it more equal to tactics.

[Faat]

As I've said before, this nerf approach is the wrong way to deal with this. Not only is normal play getting messed up, but it will just create a new group of classes that will be seen as needing balancing. This cycle will be endless, continuing until the game is ruined. I've seen this happen in one MMO after another, and the devs never learn from these disasters.

 

Get ready to have to deal with WEEKLY nerfs in GW2. You guys played GW1 ? They were balancing **** way faster and had a lot of devs working on equalizing the playing field between classes. OP builds were constantly levelled and the community was GREAT. There was a lot less QQ about other classes, only group builds and they never let the metagame intact for more than a few weeks.

 

Do you think maintaining a healthy MMO PvP system is bad, or do you just want to play the OP class and let the underpowered classes on the side ? Balancing in MMOs is part of maintaining a healthy PvP system. If you have 1 healing class better than the others, people will ONLY play that class.

 

Just look at how horrid Warhammer class balance still is and how many servers left, how many players... lol 1 NA server, 200 NA players prime time. But you have all those class imbalances, gear imbalances in that game. You can even play it for free.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Faat

[Dovahbrah]

It will make it more equal to tactics.

 

Because that's a good thing.

[Faat]

Because that's a good thing.

 

Guess what. You can still top DPS and kills with a tactic build. You just have to use more buttons. God forbid the use of more than 5 attacks, and adjusting your playstyle. In the video I posted there's a section where he plays a tactics build, and he still owns people. Sadly, the only appropriate comment here is L2P.

 

Reroll Sin / shadow IMO. They'll be FOTM untill next nerfbat. Then you'll have to reroll again. Poor you.

 

EDIT : Oh you already have a shadow. Just shelf your trooper if it's too hard to adapt. Anyways, kids that play the FOTM tend to not be top notch players. Those that can deal with a more complex rotation usually triumph. Just sayin'.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Faat

[Nezyrworks]

Guess what. You can still top DPS and kills with a tactic build. You just have to use more buttons. God forbid the use of more than 5 attacks, and adjusting your playstyle.

 

Reroll Sin / shadow IMO. They'll be FOTM untill next nerfbat. Then you'll have to reroll again. Poor you.

 

Of course you can. and im waiting for noninterruptable Pulse Cannon that also spams 70% speed debuff!!!