MMO vets what do you think Of Sw TOR

[Chalisar]

Dead Servers = Dead Game

 

i made the mistake of rolling on a STANDARD status server only to realize later on down the road that the server is DEAD. Paying customers are getting 50% of what they are paying for. Thousands and thousands of subscribers are being forced with the decision to keep playing on a dead server, reroll on a populated one or quit. Those are horrible for a paying customer. Bioware had officially dropped the ball and won't remedy the issue in a timely manner. They deserve to lose every single subscriber that has cancelled due to this. This is MAJOR and it's being ignored by Bioware completely

[Jrovak]

What I think of SW:TOR:

 

 

-PvP leaves a lot to be desired. Too much stun, push, pull, mes. WAY too much.

 

 

 

Experience:

 

UO 1997 – 2009

EQ1 1999 - 2006

DAoC 2001 – 2005

WoW 2001 – 2007

Final Fantasy XI 2002

Shadowbane 2003

SWG 2003 - 2004

EQ2 2004 – 2005

CoH 2004

Tabula Rasa 2007

LotR:O 2007 – 2010

 

I cant beleive I missed that crucial point:P I agree PvP with no penalty is bad. takes away the adrenaline rush

[Grickus]

Love statements like this acting like the game has been out for years and years or even months and months. Count with me, 1, 2, 3 ho ho ho . That's right, 3 months this game has been out. In that time, people like yourself have complained about end game content (which they released more in a prior patch and will be releasing more in 1.2, but it will never be enough or even acceptable). Not to mention they are actually listening to the community on what it wants and making changes based on that, who knew right?

 

But your correct, for your $15 a month you should be entitled to the keys to their bank vaults. What, being an ever so loyal and humble customer right? Look I get holding some expectations to a company for whom you are purchasing a product, I really do get it. What people don't get are timelines, funding available (spare me the well they have so many billions in their account, if you think that way you have no idea about business and probably shouldn't even own a bank account *if you have one*, what are the actual priorities going on that we don't know about (oooo big one there. Every knowitall gamer isn't so knowitall now are they?) That's right, things happen that we, the gaming community, don't know about. /shock

 

But that's my rant. Though I know how much my dollar is worth and what I can buy for it.

 

How about this man, we all paid for a game that had already been beta tested and was ready for release.. yet for the last 3 months we have been paying bioware to be their beta testers.

 

Btw they gave me an account warning me for posting something similar to this statement.

100% true, but the truth hurts huh?

 

Refund please and I'll be happy to leave you all be.

[Briljin]

Think I have finally thrown in the towel. I HATE instanced PvP and that is apparently all this game is going to embrace. I am finding myself playing Aion more and more every week. Soon it will be F2P and that will probably hold me over until GW II comes out. I enjoyed the leveling and story line in SWTOR but the fact that all PvP progression is done through WZs is dumb.

[Jrovak]

Dead Servers = Dead Game

 

i made the mistake of rolling on a STANDARD status server only to realize later on down the road that the server is DEAD. Paying customers are getting 50% of what they are paying for. Thousands and thousands of subscribers are being forced with the decision to keep playing on a dead server, reroll on a populated one or quit. Those are horrible for a paying customer. Bioware had officially dropped the ball and won't remedy the issue in a timely manner. They deserve to lose every single subscriber that has cancelled due to this. This is MAJOR and it's being ignored by Bioware completely

 

I understand your frustration and the very valid you bring, but this thread is more about the gameplay experience,

this being said There was a huge thread about this very problem with the argument going from merge sever to cross realm and the accasional troll that said reroll Or that population hadn't droped it was just that servers could hold lot more players than at release.

 

It seems hard to beleive bioware didn't anticipate that problem and that no tools seem to be available to alleviate this issue.

[Quantum]

Ok lets start with my MMO Resume

 

1. Ultima Online 14 years 1999-present
   
2. Everquest 2 years 2000-2001, 2008-2009, Present
   
3. Lord of the Rings Online 2 years 2010-Present
   
4. Star Wars: The Old Republic 3 months Launch to Present
   

 

Not a lot of titles, no "WoW" or Eve, DAoC etc. but I've tried just about all of them and only stuck with one's I liked.

 

 

Well My Sub is still running, so I guess I like it. Thing is, while I do engage in PvP WZ's, PvP isn't my main focus on playing, not in SWTOR or any MMO. To be honest PvP in any game I play could go the way of the Dodo and I'd be perfectly content, as it has become apparent that the PvP community in most games encompasses one of the biggest bunches of whiny babies found on the interwebs, not all members mind you but more than enough, if you want to delve deeper into my opinion on that check my Blog.

 

What SWTOR brings to the table for me is Story, something MMO's have been missing for a long time. UO allowed the players to really create their own story due to the depth of environmental manipulation allowed to players, few MMO's since have had that freedom. SWTOR replaces that with Story Driven missions that are well done, engaging, and satisfying. Bioware is putting the RPG back in MMORPG, just not in the way people really expected or in some cases are ready to accept.

 

If I level 8 characters to 50, taking my time to enjoy the trip, do all the FP's and Operations with each toon, through normal, hard, and nightmare mode, I hope to have invested enough time for more story to be introduced. That's the beauty of MMO's they are ever evolving virtual worlds, and another reason why I think End Game is a poor concept for people to hold too and focus on.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Quantum

[Cebby]

I like it, after 7 years of daoc and 3 of Warhammer.

 

Although daoc and war were much better.. the fickle community ebbs and flows as each release and they wonder why.

 

Each time you leave a sub game you are sending a message.. and it isnt get better and making the games. Its pvp in mmo's is a secondary mini game.

 

Think of the progession from a huge pvp game like daoc to a more user friendly, smaller scale game like war with warzones.. to swtor with just 3 warzones..

 

They are getting the message and soon we will have zero pvp in our mmo's

[Ivonichke]

Love statements like this acting like the game has been out for years and years or even months and months. Count with me, 1, 2, 3 ho ho ho . That's right, 3 months this game has been out. In that time, people like yourself have complained about end game content (which they released more in a prior patch and will be releasing more in 1.2, but it will never be enough or even acceptable). Not to mention they are actually listening to the community on what it wants and making changes based on that, who knew right?

 

But your correct, for your $15 a month you should be entitled to the keys to their bank vaults. What, being an ever so loyal and humble customer right? Look I get holding some expectations to a company for whom you are purchasing a product, I really do get it. What people don't get are timelines, funding available (spare me the well they have so many billions in their account, if you think that way you have no idea about business and probably shouldn't even own a bank account *if you have one*, what are the actual priorities going on that we don't know about (oooo big one there. Every knowitall gamer isn't so knowitall now are they?) That's right, things happen that we, the gaming community, don't know about. /shock

 

But that's my rant. Though I know how much my dollar is worth and what I can buy for it.

You wouldn't offer the same response if a new model of car was introduced that lacked some of the basics. "Relax guys, you act like you have a right to expect headlights, brakes that work, and windshield wipers. Be happy you got something with four wheels and an engine, gosh!"

 

At this stage in MMO evolution, some things are unacceptable. There are standards to meet, there are bars for comparison, and there is little/no tolerance for some things. I don't think BioWare is awful, but there isn't a lot they do exceptionally well. They (sort of) listen to players, so that's a plus, but they've also done some things to intentionally limit the feedback players can offer (removing the combat log before launch is a good example of that).

 

I don't think SWTOR is terrible, it's got a ton of potential, but from the impressive launch to now it's lost a lot of numbers. I don't think anyone that's played an MMO has impossible expectations for the first few months, BUT, when "mirror" classes have some noticeable quality of life differences at launch - it's inexcusable. With large blunders like that, the smaller ones are instantly viewed in a harsher light.

[Varicite]

They (sort of) listen to players, so that's a plus, but they've also done some things to intentionally limit the feedback players can offer (removing the combat log before launch is a good example of that).

 

I'm pretty sure the combat log was removed due to constraints w/ the game engine, and not as some Machiavellian ploy to limit the amount of feedback they received from players.

 

This is why the combat log that's being introduced in 1.2 generates a text file w/ all of the data relevant to combat, instead of appearing on-screen like you're used to.

 

I suppose you could argue that they should have used a different engine, but it's a little late to do much about that at this juncture.

[Balmuck]

I'm pretty sure the combat log was removed due to constraints w/ the game engine, and not as some Machiavellian ploy to limit the amount of feedback they received from players.

 

This is why the combat log that's being introduced in 1.2 generates a text file w/ all of the data relevant to combat, instead of appearing on-screen like you're used to.

 

I suppose you could argue that they should have used a different engine, but it's a little late to do much about that at this juncture.

 

It's 2012, lol... and a gaming company actually released a MMO without a combat log. That's like a car company offering new model of cars without a god damn speed dial... it's a joke.

 

 

Also, what the hell is up with no copy character to PTS tool? They make their testing a nightmare and a privilege, by allowing ONLY selected amounts of people to play their fully leveled toons. Seriously, look at what they've done to Ilum and most of their endgame content without any support from people testing the content on properly leveled toons. Karaga's was tested by regular peeps and it came out 100x better then that POS that Eternity Vault is.

[Varicite]

It's 2012, lol... and a gaming company actually released a MMO without a combat log. That's like a car company offering new model of cars without a gosh darn speed dial... it's a joke.

 

 

Also, what the hell is up with no copy character to PTS tool? They make their testing a nightmare and a privilege, by allowing ONLY selected amounts of people to play their fully leveled toons. Seriously, look at what they've done to Ilum and most of their endgame content without any support from people testing the content on properly leveled toons. Karaga's was tested by regular peeps and it came out 100x better then that POS that Eternity Vault is.

 

Heh, I never said it wasn't ridiculous to not have a combat log, or a copy character feature for PTS.

 

I was just saying that it wasn't an evil scheme against players that led to the removal of the combat log, just a really bad choice of engine early in development.

[Geawiel]

Played:

Xenimus - 1 year

AO from launch to 3 months out

DAoC from just before ToA to just after Catacombs. Then, for another 6 months later on. Went back and played for another 4 months before giving up on it for good.

WoW - played for just over a year, took a break, then played another year before hitting 85 and getting bored in a month and quit.

SWG - played on launch until 4 months after launch

AoC - played for about 8 months, from launch

Dabbled in a number of others.

 

On to TOR. I like the voice acted quest lines. They sucked me into the story and helped in immersion. However, I found the single player, with very little to no grouping required to be a bit off putting. Especially for an MMO. As many drawbacks as LFG has, it is overall worth it in my opinion. It is something that should have been in at start. There are a number of other "little things" that should have been in at start also. Things that almost seem be an MMO standard now.

 

There are also a number of things added in that are very good ideas but, aren't fully fleshed out. Legacy levels and space battles are prime examples. They add a bit to the overall lackluster feel of things. The UI feels like something from MMOs past. Some of the other features add to that feeling. Space battles has MUCH more potential then they currently have. There is a lot of chance for group or pvp battles with them. Legacy speaks for itself. Added in at start but has 0 function (until 1.2 anyway.)

 

The graphics are decent. Not AoC but, at least not that same MMOs past feeling that the UI has. The sound track and sound effects are good as well. The combat (for me) is timed very well, with just a few "hiccups" with some classes.

 

The crafting is decent. Pre 1.2, they are pretty well useless at high level though. This is again, something I think should have been in at start.

 

PvP is ok. Huttball is a lot of fun, though repetative at times. It's definatly a novel attempt at BG style pvp. Open world pvp is all but nonexistant. Even when you do find an enemy, there is little incentive to fight. The quest areas are painfully seperated from one another. Making "resource" fighting non existant. Illum is a broken mess, making that worthless as well. The up side is that they can bring it back. A number of user suggestions for both short and long term have been put forth. All of which would fully work and can be integrated into the game for both Illum (short term) and the creation of PvP planets that don't exist now (long term.) Coming from the people who helped on DAoC and WAR though, I was VERY dissappointed by the games release PvP....even being on a PvP server.

 

Unfortunatly, TOR is wrought with "should have been in at start" items. I enjoy the game overall, and I'll keep subbed. I see big potential for the game. BW seems serious about keeping this game afloat and, fixing what is wrong. Though much more visibility on what is going on would be nice. They need to work on less at one time though. It seems as though they are trying to put too many coals in the fire.

[ntyzor]

I am a gimped Sniper that won't have any place in a competitive 8 v 8 team in Ranked. And no I won't give up on SWTOR this year.

[xHurogx]

Wow another Darkfall Player, it truly was the best pvp game I have ever played, its a shame hardly no one has heard about it.

I am still hanging on to that Darkfall 2.0

 

Their launch was a *********** mess. I wasn't even able to BUY THE GAME, let alone try to get in. If you haven't played Dark Age of Camelot....you haven't played a true pvp game. Total skill until they ****ed everything up with the expansions.

[Proppa]

Their launch was a *********** mess. I wasn't even able to BUY THE GAME, let alone try to get in. If you haven't played Dark Age of Camelot....you haven't played a true pvp game. Total skill until they ****ed everything up with the expansions.

 

The expansions were fine, TOA messed things up for a little bit but a little bit down the line and you don't worry about it at all. You can gain everything from PvP if you want to go that route. Which is the best idea ever! lol.

 

They know DAOC is a PvP game and have just improved the content to be more and more PvP driven.

[Oldgrimm]

EQ 2y - WoW 4y - LotRo 1y - AoC 6m - Aion 2m - Rift ~ 1y

 

Unsubbed (sadly paid at launch for 4 months in advance)

I will have a look into 1.2., but I dont think, that this patch will be a turning point.

(a deeper look at the patch notes reveal a bunch of bad decisions.)

 

I'm for my part a pure PvP player, and I have to say, that SWTOR is a complete disappointment.

- Ilum (For this point it is enough only to mention Ilum)

- the WZs favor zergfests and tactical thinking is not essencial. Huttball is a light exeption from this rule.

 

The problem with the gear progress and the utterly terrible revard system.

(at least they fixed the RND bag system a little)

But it is horrible: You get WZ Coms for PvP, these you have to turn in to get the 2nd currency the MC Coms, to buy a bag, which gives you another 2 currencies.

 

Then there are the missing / bad implemented or straight not working core features in this game.

 

Lastly, yes the leveling experience with the good VO was quite entertaining.

But sadly, BW has to learn the hard way, that the endgame is keeping a MMO alive.

And in the endgame SWTOR doenst deliver, so thats it for me.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Oldgrimm

[Proppa]

I can't think of a single MMO I've played that has been perfect at release. I'll give SWTOR a patch or 2, where my play time will dwindle, if there aren't noticeable improvements I'll be pre-ordering GW2 and go back to my 360 on BF3 for a few months.

 

But for now, I kind of enjoy the potential the game has. Who doesn't like a bit of pew-pew, I think the PvP could be good fun but they need to really think seriously about it. But the few changes they have made, to Ilum especially left a rather sour taste in my mouth, but hopefully they haven't started how they mean to go on.

[Ivonichke]

I'm pretty sure the combat log was removed due to constraints w/ the game engine, and not as some Machiavellian ploy to limit the amount of feedback they received from players.

 

This is why the combat log that's being introduced in 1.2 generates a text file w/ all of the data relevant to combat, instead of appearing on-screen like you're used to.

 

I suppose you could argue that they should have used a different engine, but it's a little late to do much about that at this juncture.

Intent doesn't alter result. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, or something like that.

 

I don't think they were fully out to be secretive and obscure, but I do think they're learning that the larger playerbase (well, the ones that put some thought/constructive feedback in, not just whining and crying) often knows how the game plays better than the developers.

[Gomuningen]

PvP is pointless gear grind.

 

there is no objective or reward system for guilds, so its not MMO centered, you can solo all day and get the same gear.

 

Where is the Mythic PvP team that gave us great objectives and rewards like DAoC and Warhammer?

 

The brain behinds DAOC left Mythic long time ago...I do not mean Mark Jacobs, he was total fail.... Warhammer Online.....

 

Nothing comes close to the scale of epic rvr like DAOC....sorry WAR just sucked.

 

Anyway looking forward to GW2 for their innovative w vs w system!

[Monoth]

Overall I like it. The leveling experience is way ahead of its time, but the endgame is quite lacking. It feels like they didn't really think the end game pvp system out and now are paying the price for it.

 

Their response at the summit was that their Goals for Ilum were to ambitious and they couldn't pull it off in the end.... I know if you watch some of their videos the walkers you see now standing static at the various checkpoints shooting blanks, were actually walking across the landscape shooting people....

 

I'm guessing they ended up with severe lag issues given they had to remove the laser fire from the turrents because it was laging the game... I think in the end they picked the wrong engine to build this game on....

[MartyrLXXVII]

Their response at the summit was that their Goals for Ilum were to ambitious and they couldn't pull it off in the end.... I know if you watch some of their videos the walkers you see now standing static at the various checkpoints shooting blanks, were actually walking across the landscape shooting people....

 

I'm guessing they ended up with severe lag issues given they had to remove the laser fire from the turrents because it was laging the game... I think in the end they picked the wrong engine to build this game on....

 

Probably the biggest single factor that is the ultimate fail of swtor as a true mmo, especially for pvp...

 

Terrible engine.

[Jatne]

I started with SWG Pre-CU, also played: Vanguard, Lineage 2, Age of Conan, World of Warcraft, CoH/V to name but a few.

 

I came to TOR with high expectations having followed the game since 2008, they were not met. This game offers nothing truly innovative whatsoever.

 

The very fact they predict this game will be big in eSports shows how stale the genre is.

 

If you like WoW, you will enjoy TOR. As others have said, it's basically WoW in space with voiceovers. ($300m spent where exactly?! LOL)

 

The game launched with balance issues (they knew OP/Smug would need tweaks) the WarZones are very small and restrictive. They removed companion characters from Ilum on the pretext they hope to have 200+ a side battles and didn't think the servers could handle them... which is the most epic lolz. There is no world PvP worth mentioning, leveling or otherwise.

 

BIGGEST LET DOWN: They failed to see the PvP imbalance coming a million miles away. Making one faction look like sh*t and the other hardcore. Even the 'pub voiceovers are pretty weak in comparrison.

 

The single saving grace of this game is the Star Wars name, that is the only reason they can serve stale content and some people will lap it up.

 

Perhaps after playing a few MMOs, my expectations are too high. I want something new, something interesting that grabs my attention. Sadly, the MMO industry has realised (largely thanks to WoW) that it is easier to grab and hold the bottom 10% IQ level of players than the top 10% - hence the repetitive, grind-based trash that is pumped out by companies these days.

[Eggsalicious]

Where is the Mythic PvP team that gave us great objectives and rewards like DAoC and Warhammer?

 

Their presence can still be felt in the following:

 

-randomly falling through the world

-Overpowered mage classes

-getting stuck on nothing

-Stealth burst classes with wonky stealth and frequently nerfed burst

-dumb headgear

 

There's more, but I made coffee.

 

~Sig

[Wingfoot]

I've played:

 

EQ for a short time

WoW = 3 years including beta (quit about 6 months after Burning Crusade ruined it)

Guild Wars = not for any true length of time due to other games I was playing but have a couple max toons

LoTRO = 6 months

Warhammer Online = 2.5 years, once they fixed it the game was pretty damn good for PvP, Underdog system and Immunity timers in that game were awesome!

Rift = 6 months if that

Various Bad MMO betas and other shorter times not worthy of mentioning!

 

 

To me, swtor was a fantastic game leveling from 1-49. It kept my interest with the storyline, even though some of the regular quests were rather stale and basically rehashed go kill x type quests that have been in every other game. However, for the most part the leveling experience was great and I really enjoyed it. The flashpoints that I actually did, which weren't many, I thought were pretty good as well.

 

As to the PvP, I love PvPing, but in swtor I find it to be lacking in skill and more about spamming CC's. Resolve is one of the worst DR/Immunity timers I've experienced in a game. Ilum, nothing to be said that hasn't been. To me the PvP in swtor is a complete failure, much the way it was in Rift, in fact I despise them both equally lol...

 

The PvE operations have been pretty good, but they are so buggy and lack skill after you've done them once it lost a lot of luster.

 

I guess my biggest complaint is that I feel like we all purchase half of a game at release, and even with 1.2 it still won't feel "complete" by a release standard imo. At 50 there just isn't much to do that you couldn't complete within a couple weeks of hitting 50. It is just very stale and seems like the life just isn't there. The class story stopped too soon and the lack of things to do just bores me to tears.

 

Just to hit on other peoples points. This is 2012, I don't care HOW a game was 5-10 years ago at release, the comparison means nothing to me and standards now are different. Years ago there wasn't as much competition for games when they released so they had more time to fix and create content. Now, look at the gaming industry, if you don't release a finished game the chances are you will fail because people want that. Times have changed, so saying how bad something was at release X years ago just doesn't hold it's weight anymore.

 

To each their own I guess, but the thing that kept me playing some of the above games for the length of time was either an infusion of things to do on a consistent basis, or content that held my attention and fixes that were actually fixes. SWTOR just seems like BW is so overwhelmed by this game that they are kinda at a frantic stage where they are unsure what to do or how to fix things.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Wingfoot

[RkJedi]

been playing mmo since the early 2000's my first online game experience was EQ, great game, then after EQ, i played SWG up til the NGE, and played WOW for 3 months, tubala rasa, AOC, WOT, and many more.

 

 

SWTOR lore has a great potential for a great MMO, but bioware fudged it the story lore is all bent and twisted, and it does not follow the original lore that is written... bioware strayed from the lore and is creating their own game in my opinion

 

 

beside that, this game is a HACK and EXPLOIT fest. i seen soooo many hackers/exploiters and botters in this game it amazes me... the only other game i seen that has hackers in plenty was counter strike the FPS game. but atleast valve bans the hacking players unlike bioware "cheating is encouraged" proclaims the huttball announcer.

Edited March 29, 2012 by RkJedi