"Resolve is broken" challenge

[Scoobings]

Not if you knew what you were doing.

 

Fortunately this game was full of clueless PvPer you could KD/Dizzy all day long and watch them die while laughing because they had no clue what to do about it or didn't have proper templates.

 

In SWG there was 3 CC, delay / knock down / posture change. There was no snare, no root, no stun.

 

It may have only had 3 CCs but they were totally spammable and had no diminishing returns. Knock down was stun, pretty much. It had the same effect.

 

I knew what I was doing, and yes I know that if you hit stand while you were standing already and dizzy it would make you fall down and so the secret was to not mash your stances.

 

It was still a pretty piss poor mechanic, you have to admit, and that it was really easy to get people stuck in a loop where the flopped on the ground like fish. The PVP in that game wasn't really that good, and that's more or less what killed the game for me.

 

Well that and the absolutely terrificly god-awful customer service. "What's that? Your house filled with all your belongings worth millions and millions of credits has been deleted so we could put a bunny hut down in it's place? That blows, nothing we can do though! LEW LEW LEW LEW LEW"

Edited April 9, 2012 by Scoobings

[Kaarsa]

It still doesnt explain why pull increases and is affected by a full resolve bar when its neither a stun nor a root.

 

Do you think that is working as intended? If so why? This is a perfect example of why its a broken system. Just because it may be working as they intended, doesnt mean it was well thought out or implemented. Ilum PVP was a perfect example of poor decision making so to say they might have missed a couple of things is not a big stretch.

 

So one position altering kind of CC (knockback) would be affected by resolve and the other (pull) not? That would make any sense?

 

Listen, you can not like resolve, but this kind of argumentation makes you look silly. "Dev didnt mention pull, it has to be broken then!"

 

Seriously?

 

That, and I don't think resolve should drain WHILE you're CCed, I think that's kind of fruity

 

I think it is draining immidiately after turning white for few reasons

 

1. It rewards wise use of CC breaker

 

2. It makes using different types of CC better or worse depending on amount of targets resolve, which adds options to the fight, ie. stunning someone with almost full resolve will give him around 16 seconds of CC immnunity if you will not manage to kill him during stun. Mezzing him will give him only 12 seconds. Knocking him back will give him 12 seconds too, starting immidiately. Waiting for not-full resolve to drop will take around 30 seconds - take your pick.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Kaarsa

[Scoobings]

I see your point about #2, It's just my opinion that it's too much to the CCed player's disadvantage to get 12 seconds of CC immunity, and have to eat a 8 second mezz.

 

Having your resolve bar filled should "reward" you with 12 seconds of CC immunity, and I think it's kind of unfair that it can be stripped away like that. Just my philosophy on resolve though

[Kaarsa]

I see your point about #2, It's just my opinion that it's too much to the CCed player's disadvantage to get 12 seconds of CC immunity, and have to eat a 8 second mezz.

 

Having your resolve bar filled should "reward" you with 12 seconds of CC immunity, and I think it's kind of unfair that it can be stripped away like that. Just my philosophy on resolve though

 

I think you misunderstood me. Filled resolve bar (ie. filled with 2x 800 point worth CC to make things clear) rewards you with 20 seconds of CC immunity. If you dont use CC breaker, you get 16sec (if second CC was a stun) or 12 sec (if second CC was a Mez). If you use CCbreaker, you get 20 seconds. This way, you have a gradation of reward depending on CC used/your available CDs.

[Bocherel]

It may have only had 3 CCs but they were totally spammable and had no diminishing returns. Knock down was stun, pretty much. It had the same effect.

 

I knew what I was doing, and yes I know that if you hit stand while you were standing already and dizzy it would make you fall down and so the secret was to not mash your stances.

 

It was still a pretty piss poor mechanic, you have to admit, and that it was really easy to get people stuck in a loop where the flopped on the ground like fish. The PVP in that game wasn't really that good, and that's more or less what killed the game for me.

 

Well that and the absolutely terrificly god-awful customer service. "What's that? Your house filled with all your belongings worth millions and millions of credits has been deleted so we could put a bunny hut down in it's place? That blows, nothing we can do though! LEW LEW LEW LEW LEW"

 

I thought it was one of the best mechanic in any MMO. I could explain to you how to not get stuck with it and probably other things but it wouldnt be very useful since the game is dead haha

 

Either way you seem to be someone open to discussion but its an entire different topic alltogether so I wont pollute the thread with SWG.

 

However I 100% agree about their customer services, SWG had immense flaws but also some really good ideas which were often poorly implemented, infortunately.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Bocherel

[Baron_Samedi]

Dunno if this is "Resolve is broken" but it happens many times: I brake Awe (playing Guardian) and it blinks - and nobody as much as twitches.

 

And before all jump - no, they don't have white bar.

 

It CAN be - but I am not certain, that's why I am asking - that you must not move when using Awe?

[TUXs]

That frustration never goes away though. That's what I meant by people always deflect the blame for their mistakes. If it's not CC it's gear. If it's not gear it's class. If it's not class it's hazards.

 

This isn't just in this game either. Any game I've ever played EVER. It's a weapon (FPS) or it's a hero (MOBAS) or it's some other mechanic that capitalizes on other people's mistakes. Doesn't matter what it is, people will always complain and this frustration will always exist because whenever someone is a winner, someone else is a loser. Whenever there's a loser, there's about a 25% chance that loser will make some kind of snide comment or be a poor sport and in video games that means coming on the forums.

 

I'm not trying to imply that's what you're doing, I'm just trying to say that's where a lot of the anger and confusion is coming from. Losing.

 

*edit*

On a side note, I'VE even cussed out the resolve system before but really it's just an outlet for me getting mad at myself for being caught out of position. That, and I don't think resolve should drain WHILE you're CCed, I think that's kind of fruity

 

I will accept this as fact. I think you're right that the CCs are partially being blamed for losses...but maybe the bigger issue is the frustration with PvP overall in this game?!

 

PvP, to me, is not wz's. With the removal of any shred of open world PvP objective in 1.2, this frustration will only grow.

[Kaarsa]

Dunno if this is "Resolve is broken" but it happens many times: I brake Awe (playing Guardian) and it blinks - and nobody as much as twitches.

 

And before all jump - no, they don't have white bar.

 

It CAN be - but I am not certain, that's why I am asking - that you must not move when using Awe?

 

Well, I have my intimidating roar for like 2 levels now so I cant say I am an expert, but in my next WZ I will try to use it more and see if I get some weird results. My guess is that problem with thit skill is similar to problem with knockbacks and smash (force sweep) - short range aoe centered on you, not on target, so with some problems with client - server synchronization it may simply miss. Anyway, I will try to pay attention to it now;)

[RefugeASSASSIN]

So one position altering kind of CC (knockback) would be affected by resolve and the other (pull) not? That would make any sense?

 

Listen, you can not like resolve, but this kind of argumentation makes you look silly. "Dev didnt mention pull, it has to be broken then!"

 

Seriously?

 

 

 

 

To be fair, I did not see the knockback included the first time I read the quote (which I guess is what pull is considered), but regardless to me its not in the same class of CC as a Stun, to me it would be more like a snare which isnt effected by resolve simply because you still can attack and heal while snared, same as you can if your pulled or knocked back.

 

Resolve should prevent you from being rendered completely useless over and over. Pull and knockback doesnt fit that category as you still have full mobility.

 

In huttball, you can be running the ball up on my ledge getting ready to run down the ramp for a score, I can pull you down into the pit to prevent the score, only to fill up you resolve bar. So the next thing that heppens is the carrier either leaps back up where I pulled him down from with immunity or is pulled up there by a teamate, rendering what I did completely useless. Once I have you in the pit, I cant stun you, knock you down or do anything to prevent you from throwing the ball, jumping or being pulled. Whats the point then of even using the knockback or the pull to slow you down? I get penalized for making a good play to prevent a score by using a move which still allows you free movement, it only hinders you by putting you out of position or preventing you from scoring.

 

Is the system working as intended, sure you can argue that. Is it well thought out and balanced? No. That makes it a broken system. I dont think pointing that out makes me look silly at all, thats called feedback. Thats one example from one class (I havent bothered to roll an alt yet so I cant comment on others) Im sure others could provide different situations where its just not balanced right as well.

 

You need to see both sides of an argument to make it a valid one, otherwise your one sided opinions are no better then those who are taking the opposite side.

[Phlem]

When people say "Resolve is broken" they mean it in a broader sense than just "Resolve is bugged".

 

What they mean is that Resolve in its current incarnation isn't a sufficient mechanic to counter chain-CCs in the way something like....say "Diminishing Returns" would.

 

This is where the problem lies. On many occasions I have been chain stunned by the same exact classes. Resolve doesn't appear to be updating on the server fast enough to counter the next stun. Nothing is more enjoyable then being chain stunned and unable to move for an entire fight.

[Kaarsa]

To be fair, I did not see the knockback included the first time I read the quote (which I guess is what pull is considered), but regardless to me its not in the same class of CC as a Stun, to me it would be more like a snare which isnt effected by resolve simply because you still can attack and heal while snared, same as you can if your pulled or knocked back.

 

Resolve should prevent you from being rendered completely useless over and over. Pull and knockback doesnt fit that category as you still have full mobility.

 

In huttball, you can be running the ball up on my ledge getting ready to run down the ramp for a score, I can pull you down into the pit to prevent the score, only to fill up you resolve bar. So the next thing that heppens is the carrier either leaps back up where I pulled him down from with immunity or is pulled up there by a teamate, rendering what I did completely useless. Once I have you in the pit, I cant stun you, knock you down or do anything to prevent you from throwing the ball, jumping or being pulled. Whats the point then of even using the knockback or the pull to slow you down? I get penalized for making a good play to prevent a score by using a move which still allows you free movement, it only hinders you by putting you out of position or preventing you from scoring.

 

Is the system working as intended, sure you can argue that. Is it well thought out and balanced? No. That makes it a broken system. I dont think pointing that out makes me look silly at all, thats called feedback. Thats one example from one class (I havent bothered to roll an alt yet so I cant comment on others) Im sure others could provide different situations where its just not balanced right as well.

 

You need to see both sides of an argument to make it a valid one, otherwise your one sided opinions are no better then those who are taking the opposite side.

 

I honestly doubt you will find anyone who will supoport theory that pulls/knockbacks should be removed from resolve system;)

 

On a serious note, I think they are included because they force movement to the player. You could chain pulls to put player in basicaly any position you wish if they would not affect resolve. From the first moment I read ho wresolve works I thought "it prevents complete incapacitation and forced reposition, that make sens, but maybe roots should be included too?" Then after reading forum and playing game a bit more I came to conclusion that no, roots should not be part of resolve system and that resolve works fine.

 

This is where the problem lies. On many occasions I have been chain stunned by the same exact classes. Resolve doesn't appear to be updating on the server fast enough to counter the next stun. Nothing is more enjoyable then being chain stunned and unable to move for an entire fight.

 

1. More details about those "chain stuns" please

 

2. If "chain stun" means 2 stuns in the row, then dont bother, it is working as intented.

[Niil]

You still did not answer my question :/

 

"so saying there can only be 'opinions' is not really accurate"

 

Are you still saying he ONLY has opinions, or are you agreeing that he has some data that can back up with conclusion?

I think you're trying to insinuate that people, on these forums for example, only have opinions, which are in fact subjective yes, but when you back them up with data, they are not just opinions. I think you're taking the wording too literal. How about you replace opinion with 'hypothesis' will that make you answer my question?

 

Since we've been redirected here, I did not, at any point, argue that Resolve was broken. Math about the mechanics is meaningless in an assessment of whether people approve or disapprove of the way it works. Anything in this segment of the discussion is going to be subjective. As Kaarsa was saying in the other thread, how long of a stun is too long? Isn't one stun too few? Those are all subjective statements and facts there have no bearing. They can support someone's opinion, but ultimately that's just going to explain why someone feels they way they do. It's not going to make one or the other opinion right or wrong.

 

Actually, you are engaging in a strawman right now, but I can see how you would have been confused. Rather than keeping your entire post in my quote I should have limited it to just the phrase I was actually referring to, that being the portion where you stated "a lot of people are not happy with Resolve". I was not challenging your argument, rather I was branching the discussion into a new but related subset regarding potential reasons for the unhappiness.

 

Granted I get some folks have a hard time admitting they failed to communicate their point, but you're telling me I'm wrong because you didn't tell me what you were actually talking about until 3 posts in. And then I'm strawmanning you? I tend to think your ego is getting the better of you here. My point, the entire time, is that the universal presumption that people who aren't happy with resolve are just ignorant of the mechanics is a fallacy. I've said nothing more or less than that. If you want to make the assertion that "some" people are probably unhappy about resolve because they don't understand how it works, sure, I'll give you that. But that was never my point. I'm also not certain what merit that particular conversation has.

[Subatomix]

Please visit this thread:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=422782

 

It should clearly illustrate how resolve works. If not, then it's clearly broken, severely misunderstood, or just incomprehensible.

[Darth_Philar]

Granted I get some folks have a hard time admitting they failed to communicate their point, but you're telling me I'm wrong because you didn't tell me what you were actually talking about until 3 posts in. And then I'm strawmanning you? I tend to think your ego is getting the better of you here. My point, the entire time, is that the universal presumption that people who aren't happy with resolve are just ignorant of the mechanics is a fallacy. I've said nothing more or less than that. If you want to make the assertion that "some" people are probably unhappy about resolve because they don't understand how it works, sure, I'll give you that. But that was never my point. I'm also not certain what merit that particular conversation has.

 

And my point is that I never stated that all persons who dislike it are ignorant. I stated my position as being that most people who dislike it are probably ignorant of how it works which leads to a disparity between expectations and reality (cognative dissonance). My follow up point was that if Bioware did a better job of educating players on how to use Resolve then it would probably have much stronger support as the system itself is a good one.

 

At no point did I argue with your point. I did attempt to clarify your misunderstanding of my point which was a result of my quoting your entire post instead of simply the relevant phrase.

[Raific]

And my point is that I never stated that all persons who dislike it are ignorant. I stated my position as being that most people who dislike it are probably ignorant of how it works which leads to a disparity between expectations and reality (cognative dissonance). My follow up point was that if Bioware did a better job of educating players on how to use Resolve then it would probably have much stronger support as the system itself is a good one.

 

At no point did I argue with your point. I did attempt to clarify your misunderstanding of my point which was a result of my quoting your entire post instead of simply the relevant phrase.

 

"Most" may be a good assumption as to how many people do not completely understand how it works. I cannot argue against that point but I do not believe even if they did, they would enjoy it any more. There has been thread after thread about people expressing their dislike for the amount of stuns in SW PvP. Be it that you understand Resolve or not, this game's PvP revolves around stunning. The joke about Stun Wars is not far off.

 

I can't see how anyone could enjoy dying in PvP combat while having almost no control over their character. BW needs to fix resolve so it is not a major deciding factor in PvP or come up with a different mechanic. The only classes I can see defending the excessive amounts of stuns in this game are stealth dps classes which is understandable. If anything, have them do what they did to mezz, make it fraction of the PvE version. A 2 second stun would not be that bad.

[Darth_Philar]

"Most" may be a good assumption as to how many people do not completely understand how it works. I cannot argue against that point but I do not believe even if they did, they would enjoy it any more. There has been thread after thread about people expressing their dislike for the amount of stuns in SW PvP. Be it that you understand Resolve or not, this game's PvP revolves around stunning. The joke about Stun Wars is not far off.

 

I can't see how anyone could enjoy dying in PvP combat while having almost no control over their character. BW needs to fix resolve so it is not a major deciding factor in PvP or come up with a different mechanic. The only classes I can see defending the excessive amounts of stuns in this game are stealth dps classes which is understandable. If anything, have them do what they did to mezz, make it fraction of the PvE version. A 2 second stun would not be that bad.

 

I don't disagree with your point about dying too quickly. The stuns probably wouldn't be so bad if damage was nerfed overall allowing you to actually survive a double stun (granted, you should die if you are being focused by 3 or more enemies).

 

I think the underlying problem isn't the amount of stuns, but the fact that it is hard to survive a stun thanks to out of control DPS burst.

[Cabokid]

Ok...I have watched Smugglers with 1/2 a bar of resolve not be effected by my shock as an assassin....I have had a full bar of resolve and been chain CCed for well over 10-12 seconds.....it is a joke....resolve is completely not working in WZs......please BW take a look at this or LAY IT OUT so all can understand how U guys want it to work.....Cuz Im about done with it as is.....

[Dejected]

I had one earlier. I was carrying the ball in huttball (Tankshadow) and got stunned on the fire. I patiently waited for the 2nd one, it came, white bar happened, I used my mind snap and hit resilience and BOOM was hit with ANOTHER stun right when the fire went off.

It all happened so fast, nobody would have thought any different, but in my slowed down pvp-zen mindset i got rooted AFTER breaking a stun on full resolve, WITH resilience up. Which is impossible. Meaning either the game bugged out that one time, or it didnt and resolve is slightly flawed.