I'm in doubts, so please help... 1) Accuracy - for vigi, is it needed to be 100%? 2) Is matrix cube obsolete for pvp? Also - would you recommend it for pve? There are numerous opinions, so I don't know what to listen... Tx to all...

True. BUT - let's remember which classes DON'T have cleanse? Even sent have sort-of-cleanse. And we don't even have anti-snare (OK, except Zelous, but that is not Vigilance). Or the tank buff on guarded target dmg. Now, its not only Nefra. Its, as far as I hear, the Dread Council on HM. Dunno if Caliphus DOTs on HM are also cleanseable (not being there)... I mean, we can ENDURE many things, but when we go up in ops, it will be harder and harder. Dunno, but when you sit down, you calculate and you will see that a) we are almost completely exposed on all possible snare/cc/impairing effects and b) any DoTs are welcomed on us, since we cannot do squat **** with them except suck them up.

Maybe you sent them on mission? If you sent them on mission, your companions will not be on board.

^^^^^^ Guys, that's what I am telling you - it's the PERCEPTION. And for cleansing - I was rejected in at least 2-3 pugs for not being able to have cleanse.

It's not about the numbers, it's about perception. Guardians are low and useless DPS who need to be babysitted. Period. I was numerous times in various OPS where Gunslingers and Sents died like flies because of their own mistakes, PARSE showed that my Guardian was just behind best Sentinel - and still its "no go" for Guardians when it comes to HM DF/DP. Even on main chat it is constantly "LF DPS DP/DF HM, must know tactics and have 5 sec cleanse!" I even tell them there won't be problems with me on Corruptor Zero, cause I can leap on him even on 1st stack - no. BTW, I am full Underworld/Obroan, all augmented on Might, ACC 99,8%, CRIT 25%, SURG bout 73%, rest on might and power. Have bout 40.000 HP. So - its not gear. I rarely cause wipes. STILL - "You are Guardian!" If it was in RL, I would call it racism. Here it is "lack of DPS".

What we need is at least one CLENSE. I noticed that Guardians are not invited to many Opps - DF and DP HMs being named - because of severe DoTs in them. So now you have situation that if you want to DPS DF and DP as Vigilance, you have to be almost in full Obroan to maintain your DPS... So I will go to operation that drops higher instance gear to get the gear I have. Almost. (set bonus). And what's worse - even if you have that gear, you are STILL not invited because a) your DPS is low, b) you don't have cleanse on Nefra etc. So, what we need, IMHO: a) Guaranteed crits on DPS tree b) Better focus management c) 2 DoTs cleanse on activation of Focused Defense Only then Focused Defense have some meaning. Anywhere. In PVP or in PVE.

Mmm, nice. THANKS!

*** are some of peeps here talking about crit? Crit is comfy on 25% TOPS. After that it is mittigation. Surge is ~395 (cca 70-75%). Get Accu to 100%+ (mine is 101%, and i cannot recall EVER seeing "reflected", "dodged" etc). Rest is strength (preferably) and power. Now, biggest mistery for me are RELIC. I have that thingy for main stat +625, and i have MATRIX CUBE for strength. Now, I am pondering the best relic combination for Vigilance PVP. Any suggestions on that? Btw, I disagree that Vigilance is BAD as DPS. I run Parsec several times in PvE and PVP. BOTH always made 2000-2500+ average dmg (crits included). Which is FAIR. Not the pro-sentinel numbers, but good.

Any suggestions what 2nd relics to use? I still packing Cube (with the topic-problematic-relic). Also - need advice for PvE: what 2 relics to use? (Was offline for over a year, so - this is genuine ask for advice) Edit: Sry - AC is Guardian, DPS, Vigilance.

Agreed. Although - would you say the same (Guardian - bad DPS) for PvE? <Official QQ:> All this problem is because devs messed up Guardian from the beginning. We were,well, OP in wzs. Saber Throw with 3 stacks of armor + immobilizing Leap + Force Exhaustion for ticking Singularity ( cap was 5, but it was bugged and you could get it to 7) + Sunder Strike as left clicker for additional 2 stacks of armor + Zephyr (NOT Zephyrian slash) + all possible power aug+enhcs+mods + Sweep on 5 sec CD. PLUS no cap on CRIT curve. PLUS no cap on surge curve. Somebody starts to run? STASIS. AND every tick creates Singularity. Freaking Sweep bombs were called in that time. I remember jumping in 3 sorcs, 2 healers and 1 DPS, on Alderaan, performing that on 1 healer... It critter. From FULL BAR of energy, bout 15k, he was ONE SHOT and other 2 were killed in sec after by team. Ah... good days... <Official QQ off>

That was my thinking exactly. Once I studied surge and crit curve, realised that surge goes to ~400 for bout 70-75%. After that it's flat line, if I remember the curves correctly. And I remember reading somebody here who was posting numbers and scientifically proving that it is better for Sents to go POW and for Guards to go STR. BUT - nevertheless - I THANK YOU BOTH for suggestions.

Because of offing Pooled Hatred and Unyielding? They are good, but in my experience, never had much use of PH. And Unyielding - if you get stunned in PVP, it is because you are playing against GOOD team who focus, choose targets and coordinate, hence, you have excellent chances that you kiss the floor (THNX BW FOR LOUSY RESOLVE BAR!) So this tree looks very reasonable, I will definitely try it tonight. Thanks for the tree.

I am using this system: http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pvp/jedi-knight/guardian/vigilance/stat-priority Have bout 100% Accu, 25% crit and cca 75% surge. All other augms are in might, to get +6%. Any suggestions about this (I'm asking because I am on Vig for about month and a half now, was offline for over a year and b4 I played focus)?

You are not. I am running Vigilance and am perfectly happy. We get squished only 1) when other team is obviously premade and use focus target, b) our team is very retarded. Usually I am in top 3-4 places (if not, I have bad day - as a person, in general, not in SWTOR), wherever we are - loose or gain.

If you reduce heal in PVP or throw it out all together, nobody would play healers anymore. How would you counter that? Never played WOW PvP, but I hear they have same problems there. True?

Aaaa! You are PUGGING! Then forget all. G-ds Rakata Bomb wouldn't help them. Quite a few of them have almost religious ban to post inc in chat. Something like "Thou shalt kill" and "thou shalt post inc in chat". Just insult them or something like that. Perks of being subscriber. Eventually they will start writing.

You can try googling MUMMBLE, TEAMSPEAK etc. They are ancient Rakata-made programs that integrate your computer, speakers, microphone and your head that allow you to communicate with Belgians, French, Russians, Turks, Americans and other various species that live in a galaxy far, far away. You don't even have to defeat Soa to get them. And I didn't see them on GTN. Glitch?

How can you balance ALL classes when you have designated ROLES in this game? You have TANKS whose sole purpose is meat-shielding. Hence, their dmg reduction and evasion, as well as sustainability is primary. And how they do it? On expense of damage. And - if any - healing abilities. Then you have HEALERS, whose purpose is - ta-dam! - to heal. Hence, they need to maximize their heal output - on expense of damage and sustainability. And in the end you have DAMAGE DEALERS (DPS), whose are dedicated to making as much damage in 1 second as possible. And to be good DPS, you need to sacrifice your sustainability and heal. And what is the point of PVP? Or, at least, what people THINK is PvP? Well, DOING DAMAGE TO OTHER PLAYER. Even the very freaking name says so - PLAYER VS PLAYER. Hence, if you approach the problem through this lenses, you will see all the problem - damage dealers are on their turf. All others are naturally behind them. Yeah, you CAN add the survivability and tricks for healers and tanks. Sure. You CAN. But the sole purpose of DPS - to deal damage in a second and to have most TOOLS for it - is to bypass that survivability and kill them ASAP. And they SHOULD have that! They are DPS! So - if you as a healer loose from marauder, YOU SHOULD. Sorry. YOU ARE A HEALER. Better worry that your "healing dealt" is topping the chart. Or, if you are tank, that your protection is topping (i am amazed how small percentage of guardians use taunts to reduce damage and get at least 3 medals!) THAT is your point and rotation, NOT qq-ing "Omg, my healer sage cannot kill marauder! KMEEE, EVIL DEVS!!!" (In my guild I have people who have a) toons for PvE (tanks, dps, healers) and b) toons for PvP. And that functions great for them. ) So what did DEVS do to counter that NATURAL STATE? They a) made objectives that actually give medals that give comms and that buy prizes, b) capped the medals so OVERALL gearing progress would be ok. IMHO, you want more balanced classes? MAKE SEPARATE TREES for them. Like, in Guardians, make Defense/Vigilance/Focus just PVE trees and make 4th tree, the exclusive PvP tree. A tree that would take in a) reduce all perks that guardians have to the level other classes have, b) rectify guardian's problems to level other classes have. Cause, I don't know, I think that now PVP is pretty well balanced - in your role, you can top your charts without problem if you are concentrated, keybinding and do not do very intelligent stuff like popping DCD when nobody is around. Problem is general thinking of people - like, we wait in Voidstar the start of the match. A sage pops the absorption armor. Nice start - ONLY HE POPPED THAT UP 1:20 BEFORE THE DOOR OPENED. So we go down on Voidstar box (defense start) in immunity on adsorption bubble. Its not Balance. Its Idiotism. Edit: I think right now we have almost all tools for good balance. The problem (except general idiotism) is TO FIX them - absorption bar not filling or declining faster than being filled, Awe that misses, although you stand still, Sweep that works UNDER 5 m etc.

Premades have "spotter" tactics that cannot be countered by any pug group and only 2nd premade, with similar tactics, but better than 1st, can counter it.

That. From word to word. Kudos. Except, IMHO, that PVP now is MUCH BETTER than it was before. Now when we suck, I see we suck because of morons in my team, much less because some class is OP. Btw, yesterday I was in pylons, rep vs rep. WE WON overwhelmingly - although the other side had 3 SCOUNDREL HEALERS, 2 SHADOWS and 2 MARAUDERS! So...

They ****ed up from the day 1 in that. Some quasi-managerial shmuck in BW ordered whole bunch of servers, thinking probably that all MMORPG players, from all other games, would move to SWTOR. Wrong. Then, they forgot that you need to send out AT LEAST 1 PvE program every 4-5 months to keep subscribers happy. Also, they thought that SW base of fans is so strong, that no matter what they do, people will stick around. So they neglected the most pressuring problems, like not balancing PVP in the beginning and having problematic daily/weekly rewards (all you who remember - it was 6 or 7 wins PER DAY to get DAILY. Then it was 15 WINS for weekly. Losses didn't count. Any DC or mid-game quit was almost automatic loss, due to the other side being stronger and servers were too small populated to get a decent match quickly). X-servers is a must. 2nd poster on page 1 is right - it IS a big job. It IS a great task. It IS. True. But they will loose the only base they can count on, and that's PVP-ers. For PvErs leave when there are no new bosses to kill, when they start to sleep on ops. PvPers usually log, make daily/weekly and then leave. But come again tomorrow for more. So I sincerely hope that BWs are ALREADY WORKING on X-servering. PARALLEL to making new content.

Because of insta-healers I abandoned Focus Guardian in PVP. Opted now for Vigilance. MUCH better against healers: 1st, you have immunity after the leap for 4 secs. That precious second or 2 is best for applying at least 6 sec DOT. Here is how I do it: You want to start with Saber Throw to announce your presence and apply him 20% of Armor Reduction. You leap on him. In this moment, a) you are invulnerable to stuns, snares, whatever for 4 seconds (Unremitting) and have b) additional damage via Set Bonus (you do have one, don't you?). In that 4 seconds, you really want to do Overhead Slash for DOT and damage (it has lower CD than Plasma Brand, so every 3 cycles you can apply 2 OS on 1 PB), followed by Plasma Brand for 2nd DOT and 2nd burst. If he didn't use his stuns on your Unremitting, this is the point he will want to do it. To interrupt that, IMMEDIATELY after Plasma Brand you use Force Push. Followed by Leap, of course. Apply OS and PB again, but this time finish with FORCE SLOW. It counters most of the "run away". DOTs interrupt stealth. In this moment, he will probably use some sort of snares and main release to try to run away, since you applied bout 15.000 dmg on him and DOTs are not over. This is the moment you use Blade Storm (long range) and MOST LIKELY you will have Keening, so use DISPATCH, if you want, Awe - if you are doing him 1on1, this is a must. This is the only tricky moment - he CAN run away, but your leap should be almost down. Do not worry about others, just leap when you see starting his heal. Instant interrupt. Apply FORCE SLOW to prevent sneakys. You can now start with Master Strike. He will want to run away from you. Finish Master Strike and Stasis him if he tries to run too far (some dmg, but not much). Apply OS and PB, followed by crit-powered Blade Storm (and possibly Keening or no keening (he is under 10%) Dispatch). If he is not dead in this moment, 99 out of 100 times he is under 10%. And if your mates are not keeping healers on their sights - sorry. Healing operative is not a problem for a good Vigilance Guardian: problem is that usually that Operative is guarded by an assassin and marauder. And your team mates have strange attraction of mass-pressing <TAB> to kick one for 1000 dmg, then other for 1000 dmg, then third... Oh, there are some prequisits for upper situation I described: 1) You KEYBIND. I was amazed how many people click. Its literary 1 second delay keybind/click and in the end, this is (estim) 1 minute of his damage over your damage. 2) You know your rotations. 3) You have full set of pvp armor, at least Conqueror, with all procs. 4) You actively try to loose LOS with jumps in the air and turns, meaning, you don't stand in 1 place. Oh, and last - he does not use ground to his advantage. As you saw, for all this you have to have nice LOS on him. If you battle in the middle of Pylons - bye, this is not applicable. If you fight around fence on 1st room of Voidstar - bye, not applicable. In these situations, you will want help from your friends.

Would you say that Oricon impl (x2) + Orion EP, augmented on 28 (Advanced Might all), for Guardian (with +6%) - are better than augmented Conqueror impl (x2) + Conqueror EP? What about expertise? Also, have Obroan Mainhand and Obroan Offhand - you think I should change them? Pls some help, I suck at theorycrafting.

Look to it like this: New words for your dictionary and new way to express yourself. I know I DISCOMBOBULATED you. :D

Yesterday, Huttball. They scored with Powertech. He runs up our ramp towards the middle. I follow. He didn't see me. He stops on the top of the ramp to prepare for pass. I notice that and Force Push him. He lands on the lower platform. He turns and leaps on me. All legit so far. Then out of the nowhere our Shadow appears, bumping him down. HE LEAPS ON HIM. I started to be suspicious. AND A GUARDIAN, from our team, jumps on him from left lower ledge. Cleverly - he positions where I am and Force pushes him. THAT POWERTECH APPEARS AGAIN ON OUR PLATFORM. Now - that can be some sort of quick ending of leap CD (like Guardians have - Force Push ends CD of Guardian Leap, enabling him). BUT - 3 in a row?? Now, since I am not sure if that was a glitch, didn't report him. Only thing that I saw recently was an assassin that moved in abnormal speed (not the usual strife left-right or even round-the-character-spamming left click). It was literary that you could not follow. At first I thought it was Force Speed, but it lasted way over 2 sec. Then I thought it was a lag but my character and other around were acting normally. When the guy at the end of the WZ healed in 1 second from 200 hp to over 34000 (LITERARY!) - but around was only 1 healer and the guy was GUARDING THAT HEALER... Needless to say, still didn't encounter that guy in WZs and that was bout month ago.