Jandi Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) You didn't do any of the hardmode/nightmare Operations, did you? With the nerf incoming for healers you'll have a hard time to do them... just saying. The sorcs will run low on might (and yes this was actually somewhat needed) and the mercs will have big heat-issues. Mercs are not welcome in operations the way they're now allready, with even bigger heat-issues they can respec as a DD right away with 1.2. 2 sorcs with their AoE-heals is what you want i an operation anyways, and making the Kolto Missile affect 4 targets now doesn't compensate the lessened Kolto Residue and it sure doesn't help to make the Kolto Shell cost 16 heat, etc etc... PvE-endcontent should be tricky and hard ofc, but making classes unviable in PvE-endcontent sure isn't the way to go just because the PvP-babies are crying that they can't kill a Merc etc. If you can't kill a Merc-healer in PvP btw, then you're not very good at what you're doing. You can come to bloodworthy if you want to check my full rakata set. I've tanked/dpsd both ops on my assassin, tanked on my jugger and healed on my merc. Both done with a merc/operative combo without trouble. Of course, you aren't going to believe me, it's easier to blame it on class issues that aren't there. The PvE content is trivial to most experienced raiders. Currently, there are 3 fights in the operations that even require AoE healing, the rest only if your ops group is incapable of being awake. The first boss in EV, we just heal through the barrages, karagga and the rancor. Honestly, if you are having heat problems 1 of 2 things is the cause. You or your tank is undergeared or you are doing something wrong. The reason they are nerfing AoE heals is precisely because at the moment, you can ignore boss mechanics by grouping up and spamming AoE heals. EDIT: In fact, the easiest time we had was with 2 mercs because the residues and heal bubbled stack, it's silly. Edited March 25, 2012 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Eugh you little babies, FINALLY! an MMO that takes pvp seriously, Oh what you dont like it? go play WoW or somthing. Have you tried EVE? Please, don't try to tell me THIS game takes PvP seriously.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 It puzzles me WHY the devs are making changes to classes based on the whinings of the PvP crowd, my wife plays Sorc but PvE only, any changes based on PvP data/observations will sureley have an adverse impact on PvE?? Or maybes it's because PvE content is completely trivial? At least to most experienced players. You cannot balance end-game to the people who can barely click the right skills, with their mouse. The devs have realized how people walk all over their operations in green leveling gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Statistics like 'expertise' are PVP killers. Why? Because it discourages the PVE player from PVP. The guy that hits hard in a raid hits like a wet noodle in a BG and gets frustrated. Or worse, the tank in grinding their dailies on a PVP server and gets one shot by a guy in full PVP gear. That's when the PVE guy goes 'PVP sucks and needs to be nerfed' Almost every guy I know who is a hardcore carebear now is someone who got beat up bad in PVP and won't go back, and almost always that is a result of split gear trees. First off, if a PvE player is on a PvP server, then I don't even feel bad for him. That's just plain stupid! Second.... actually, that was all I wanted to say here. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Sorry Carebear PvE crowd. Georg already told us that they DONT do any class balances based on PvP/Warzone statistics/metrics. Good try though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProphetX Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) The thing is and its been touched several times through this thread basically Bioware didn't know what they were doing when making an MMO . They listened to too many people's on the forums and the whole idea that community matters . I have played alot of mmo's and this by far is the worse community I have ever been apart of . There are no conversations in trade other than LF Tank for insert activity here over and over . Leaving out LFD in an attempt to preserve community had the reverse effect it destroyed it . Then on top of that you put outragous repair costs for deaths and you discourage people from running anything outside of there guild and circle of friends . Now what they got right a queiing system for pvp , thats why people do it . It takes a long time to get a group together to run anything PVE pugging when all you have to do is push a button and you can que for pvp . You get money , experience , comms and social interaction for doing it . If they would do two things 1) reduce the cost of repairs 2) put in a dungeon finder , it would make this game solid . We need to get over the notion that community matters , when all the measures they have taken to do it have destroyed it . Edited March 25, 2012 by ProphetX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 This game is intended to be PvE mainly as pvp as a side note, just as space combat is a side note. I feel like the devs are making decisions in regards to balancing pvp efforts and not really taking into account pve. Do people agree or disagree, please explain your reasonings. This game is not intended to be PVE mainly and PVP as a side note. A lot of people say this, save for one major group, the Devs. BioWare has never said this was a PVE game with a tossed in PVP mini-game. In this game PVP is supposed to be just as important as PVE. In fact just as many people end game PVE as they do end game PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredcat Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 It's not their main thought. You better believe if one class can solo PVE content better that another class they will nerf them. If a healer, tank or dps is significantly better then other AC's that do the same job in PVE, they will definitely nerf them. Just like every other MMO does. Stop looking for a scapegoat because your OP classes got nerfed and learn to adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 It's not their main thought. You better believe if one class can solo PVE content better that another class they will nerf them. If a healer, tank or dps is significantly better then other AC's that do the same job in PVE, they will definitely nerf them. Just like every other MMO does. Stop looking for a scapegoat because your OP classes got nerfed and learn to adapt. That's exactly right. Every whiner can be condensed to this phrase on these forums. "Paper is fine! NERF ROCK! Regards: Scissors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxion Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) learn to adapt. Wining statement right there. The reason why PvPers tend to be more vocal about problems like that is because they are human. NPCs can't comment when they are getting facerolled by one class or another. The majority of the time (not all, I am sure there are a small number of people that inform the devs that they think there class is too powerful in PvE (a very very small number)) PvE players won't say anything about their class being too powerful because they enjoy the fact they can do things relatively easily, why would they wan't to nerf their own class! Welcome to the world of MMOs, for all the first timers out there get used to the idea that classes WILL get nerfed / buffed / changed all the time .... adapt, reroll or quit. Edited March 25, 2012 by Loxion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryptikX Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 ALL the PVPers just CRY and act like total babies ... i have said this before and i will say it again IF YOU WANT A REAL PVP!!! GAME GO PLAY AN FPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A) Who is crying in this thread? Doesn't look like its the PVPers B) Highest pop servers in Europe are PVP servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenthorn Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 pvp is more fun and it has skill involved pve is just CC that and it is easy pvp takes teamwork,skill,and tactics.It is most fun! go troll somewhere else the adults are talking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micadog Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 The reason why PvPers tend to be more vocal about problems like that is because they are human. NPCs can't comment when they are getting facerolled by one class or another. The majority of the time (not all, I am sure there are a small number of people that inform the devs that they think there class is too powerful in PvE (a very very small number)) PvE players won't say anything about their class being too powerful because they enjoy the fact they can do things relatively easily, why would they wan't to nerf their own class! Just curious. How many PvPers report that their OWN class is overpowered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Just curious. How many PvPers report that their OWN class is overpowered? Almost none, but that isn't the issue. The point is that the PVP'ers who see overpowered classes report them. In PVE if you have an overpowered class and you steamroll the enemies in the hard modes the enemies in the hard modes don't jump on the forums and post screen shots of how bad it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxion Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Just curious. How many PvPers report that their OWN class is overpowered? They don't alot of the time, in that scenario its exactly the same as PvE players, I wasn't trying to imply anything different, perhaps a little ambiguous in the wording, However, the significant difference is that they (PvPers) are playing against other people that will report problems rather than NPC's that can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDProletariat Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Sorry OP, but I laughed heartily. You have it so nonsensically twisted that you have no idea what you are talking about. PVP is a very large part of the game, half the end game content and gear is PVP. The majority of people's time when they are not running through their daily PVEs is done PVPing. They are releasing ranked WZs, a new WZ, new items to purchase with PVP commendations. What did they add in 1.2 for PVE? An OP and a FP. Neither is obviously an afterthought, except for space combat. But to the point, imbalances in classes don't affect PVE that much at all unless the class is underpowered. If they are overpowered, you just clear the content faster. But in PVP you need to balance classes that are underpowered as well as overpowered if you want to retain your subscriptions. It's obviously more important for an MMO developer to balance around PVP and make sure that balance also translates to the PVE content. So while PVE and PVP are neither afterthoughts, the class balance in PVE is an afterthought. The focus is and always should be the PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrishmal Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 It's not their main thought. You better believe if one class can solo PVE content better that another class they will nerf them. If a healer, tank or dps is significantly better then other AC's that do the same job in PVE, they will definitely nerf them. Just like every other MMO does. Stop looking for a scapegoat because your OP classes got nerfed and learn to adapt. Pretty much this. Bioware has already stated that the changes at hand were for PvE balance since the content they have is too easy. I admit that some of the changes don't really make that much sense, but the majority of them do. Changes will be coming for years; accept it and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironcleaver Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 This game is intended to be PvE mainly as pvp as a side note, just as space combat is a side note. I feel like the devs are making decisions in regards to balancing pvp efforts and not really taking into account pve. Do people agree or disagree, please explain your reasonings. Spouted to us by countless devs acorss dozens of games, "PvE will never be effected by PVP" they say, but it happenes in every game every time, always. :-/ Games need to be either PVP from the ground up or PVE, dancing with both is asking for issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladedakoda Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Sorry OP, but I laughed heartily. You have it so nonsensically twisted that you have no idea what you are talking about. PVP is a very large part of the game, half the end game content and gear is PVP. The majority of people's time when they are not running through their daily PVEs is done PVPing. They are releasing ranked WZs, a new WZ, new items to purchase with PVP commendations. What did they add in 1.2 for PVE? An OP and a FP. Neither is obviously an afterthought, except for space combat. But to the point, imbalances in classes don't affect PVE that much at all unless the class is underpowered. If they are overpowered, you just clear the content faster. But in PVP you need to balance classes that are underpowered as well as overpowered if you want to retain your subscriptions. It's obviously more important for an MMO developer to balance around PVP and make sure that balance also translates to the PVE content. So while PVE and PVP are neither afterthoughts, the class balance in PVE is an afterthought. The focus is and always should be the PVP. How can there be so much stupid in one post. Edited March 25, 2012 by Bladedakoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Hey angry PvE players, it's your own fault. The reason for some of the changes is in fact to increase the challenge level of top end content by tightening class balance. Healing through top end content was, as a fact, not tightly balanced enough in the past and a prime contributor to the fact that our top end difficulty content was just not providing the challenge level people expected. This encapsulates both the medpac change (without being able to make safe assumption about the availability of optional healing, it is impossible to strike a reliable balance that doesn't require people to shell out hundreds of thousands of credits for item based healing) as well as the class changes. The other major reason is class to class and role to role balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladedakoda Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Hey angry PvE players, it's your own fault. How exactly is it the PVE players fault they made the content too easy. Edited March 26, 2012 by Bladedakoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyleya Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Hey angry PvE players, it's your own fault. Oh good, so we - the healers - are the scapegoat for too easy boss-encounters now, because we do our job keeping the raid alive Seriously, try running hardmode/nightmare OPs yourself before you post crap like that. And BW aparently doesn't have a clue either what they're talking about. The healers have enough to do in the OPs. What's making endgame too easy is the too easy boss-encounters, where you don't need any movement or tactics but only zerging the boss down as fast as possible... currently it's a pure DPS-race. Anything else then Sorcerers is allready too powerless to be considered as healers in hardmode/nightmare OPs, so why exactly do they nerf mercenaries? If anything then they should've buffed mercenaries, so that they can actually heal during the encounters without running hot as fast as they do, especially when there's alot of AoE-damage incoming. Sorcerers will still be able to do their AoE-healing like before, whereas the mercenary can still only heal one half of the raid, and then it's targetting through all players shooting them with the blasters, which simply doesn't cut it compared to the 3k healing a single Sorc can heal every player with by simply casting one spell. The nerf for mercenaries is only because of people being too s***** to kill mercenaries in the BGs, which is laughable easy once you interrupt and stun them for a few seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Bioware have dumbed PvP down to Huttball. Now I believe that world conquering PvP is a major part of the game. Only Bioware doeesn't want this to be their vission of PvP they see PvP as same faction Warzones (much like Star Trek online turned to) which is a side point. They exist apart from the rest of the game and are completely meaningless as they reset as soon as the game is over. Its fight clubbing for gear. So it does seem strange that Bioware are balancing the game from a PvP point of view and then turning almost all warzones into same faction fight clubbing. And after all the time spend bringing Story to the MMO they have gone the other way when it comes to PvP so it seems even they just want a modern warfare style jump in pound your random generated enemy for 5 to 10 mins and then do it all over again. Only by making it an RP added the fun that someone with better stats can pawn you and there is a lot less option for skill and taking head shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwwIX Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) If BioWare honestly thinks that this game can be sustained by PvP players alone, then by all means, nerf away! All i need is an answer from them confirming this. If they are unable to keep the PvP and PvE experience separated, it's their responsibility to tell us. I do not want to waste any more of my time and money on a game whose direction is dictated mainly by PvP. That's all. Edited March 26, 2012 by TwwIX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Rathus Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 How can there be so much stupid in one post. Exactly. ZDP's post was one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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