Meldwyn Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 all companies are vague.. they have intellectual property rights to consider..shareholders money..that sort of thing....stuff you arent thinking about i am sure.. I have been part of shareholder meetings, and investor relations meetings, from both sides so that is nothing new to me. Being vague is usually an attempt to cover up something that is not positive and will get you called on the carpet more often than not in those situations! Being coy with people's money is unwise 100% of the time. But, trying to assume what I am thinking or not thinking about is equally unwise on your part. Just stick to the subject and we can actually have a dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 If you really, really want to know what they meant by "improve server stability," then I will tell you. They defregged the server hard drives. Think of how much information is written, moved, written, moved then written again PER HOUR. They needed to do this before the Weekend Pass event so that new trial players that came in with their plethora of new toons would be able have a smooth gaming experience, as well as the paying players. This is your great mystery. That actually makes sense to me because I have done that on my own PC in the past many times. If that was, in fact, what they did, that would explain some things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasgallant Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I have been part of shareholder meetings, and investor relations meetings, from both sides so that is nothing new to me. Being vague is usually an attempt to cover up something that is not positive and will get you called on the carpet more often than not in those situations! Being coy with people's money is unwise 100% of the time. But, trying to assume what I am thinking or not thinking about is equally unwise on your part. Just stick to the subject and we can actually have a dialogue. the truth is all companies are vague about their workings..even to shareholders with regard to how things work.. all they really tell shareholders is how they are doing..they dont generally tell how they go the finial product.. nor would i expect them to..if you expect more than that you are expecting to much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitharen Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Fixes for "stability" reasons most often are simply refactorings what don't affect the features at all. It's just that: more stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orizuru Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 "Implemented changes to improve overall server stability." Could yall possibly be more vague in your patch notes discription? Some updates require vague communications because saying too much specific information about the fix is akin to telling the users how to exploit the system in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphashado Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Some updates require vague communications because saying too much specific information about the fix is akin to telling the users how to exploit the system in some way. Fair enough. In fact if there were a mention of addressing an exploit in the patch notes, then I wouldnt at all be curious about it because I certainly understand the need for secrecy in reguards to exploits. But that isn't what the note says. The issue is vague descriptions being used for almost everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sippix Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 That actually makes sense to me because I have done that on my own PC in the past many times. If that was, in fact, what they did, that would explain some things. I can tell you, beyond the shadow of a doubt, this is what they did. They also tidied up some system files, ran some diagnostics and then did a positive test to make sure all machines were running as perfectly as they could be. They probably even implemented some new hardware for keeping up with their growing subscription base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasgallant Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Fair enough. In fact if there were a mention of addressing an exploit in the patch notes, then I wouldnt at all be curious about it because I certainly understand the need for secrecy in reguards to exploits. But that isn't what the note says. The issue is vague descriptions being used for almost everything. they fixed voidstar.....that wasnt vague at all. 1.1.5d Patch Notes 3/23/2012 General Implemented changes to improve overall server stability. PvP Voidstar Players will no longer be able to exit the starting area earlier than intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphashado Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 I can tell you, beyond the shadow of a doubt, this is what they did. They also tidied up some system files, ran some diagnostics and then did a positive test to make sure all machines were running as perfectly as they could be. They probably even implemented some new hardware for keeping up with their growing subscription base. This ^^^ would have been a fantastic patch note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 the truth is all companies are vague about their workings..even to shareholders with regard to how things work.. all they really tell shareholders is how they are doing..they dont generally tell how they go the finial product.. nor would i expect them to..if you expect more than that you are expecting to much We have veered off the road a bit and are on the verge of cascading down an embankment... but we do agree that shareholders won't get details behind the inner workings of any company (generally), but that is not what the issue is here. The issue here is in what they ARE communicating to their player base, they are being intentionally vague most of the time. If you are confident in what you are doing or a service you are providing to someone, you have no issues going in to as much detail as the customer wants to. At least, that's how I operate my business. Builds long lasting and trusting relationships. If you were paying me for a service and you noticed some things wrong with what I provided and asked for an explanation, would you accept, "Fiddled with this and that and its fixed". Sounds a little fishy, if you ask me. I would hope you wouldn't accept that explanation. I don't even think I could make eye contact with you while saying that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erevan_Kindelar Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 "Implemented changes to improve overall server stability." Could yall possibly be more vague in your patch notes discription? My 2 cents, and not intended as an insult to OP or anyone else posting in this thread... If you are not a software developer, details of the changes they made would not mean anything to you (and 95+% of the played base for SWTOR are not software developers). If you are a software developer, you probably read patch notes for the crap you use in your day to day work. When I get home, I do not want to start reading patch notes for the game - I just want to relax and know that the game works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyillo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 you people never cease to amaze you pay to play THEIR game. The only thing they owe you is a game. The don't owe you any explanations on how the game works or changes they are making. no. no. hell no. This mentality is everything wrong with the video game industry. **** like this is why day 1 Disk Locked Content exists. I paid for the full game, and I pay for $15 a month worth of content and support. 9 times out of 10 I'm not getting either one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasgallant Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 We have veered off the road a bit and are on the verge of cascading down an embankment... but we do agree that shareholders won't get details behind the inner workings of any company (generally), but that is not what the issue is here. The issue here is in what they ARE communicating to their player base, they are being intentionally vague most of the time. If you are confident in what you are doing or a service you are providing to someone, you have no issues going in to as much detail as the customer wants to. At least, that's how I operate my business. Builds long lasting and trusting relationships. If you were paying me for a service and you noticed some things wrong with what I provided and asked for an explanation, would you accept, "Fiddled with this and that and its fixed". Sounds a little fishy, if you ask me. I would hope you wouldn't accept that explanation. I don't even think I could make eye contact with you while saying that... so honestly if i wanted to know everything about your business..you would tell me..since i like to know as much about everything as i can.. you will have 100% open conversation with me.. tell me all your companies inner secrets? of course you wont. you say i wouldnt accept a fiddled with this or that ..thats true..but if i have no clue how something works it is an insult to you for me to demand 100% clarification on exactly what you did..i paid YOU to fix it so i wouldnt have to.. but if you feel you would give 100% information to people who asked.. your company will go under very quickly because someone out there will steal your company secrets. there are reasons why when you work for big companies you sign non disclosure agreements. people will misuse the information they are given.. but regardless..if you are unhappy with biowares disclosure of information send them an email.. and i am sure they will tell you that they have given more than enough info in the patch notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petromir Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I can tell you, beyond the shadow of a doubt, this is what they did. They also tidied up some system files, ran some diagnostics and then did a positive test to make sure all machines were running as perfectly as they could be. They probably even implemented some new hardware for keeping up with their growing subscription base. THats pretty much all standard maintenance though, they do affect stability but not patch note stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphashado Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 I can tell you, beyond the shadow of a doubt, this is what they did. They also tidied up some system files, ran some diagnostics and then did a positive test to make sure all machines were running as perfectly as they could be. They probably even implemented some new hardware for keeping up with their growing subscription base. I will quote Sippix for the 2cnd time because this is a perfect example of my point. If in fact that is what they did, then why would it be so hard to say that? What a fantastic patch note that would have been. Very easy for most computer users to understand and relate with, very informed and to the point. Not too much to ask I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjSnazzyduds Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Just seems vague to me. As a paying customer I would like to see more than. "Fixed servers" Man why does it matter? As long as the server is running without a hitch. It pains me to say this in all honesty, but the reality is, you are not a shareholder/investor. Your $15 a month means squat compared to the people out there that have big investments within EA/Bioware. I know I sound like a jerk but I don't know how else to put it. I'm sure theres more detail to it that they would explain to investors in order to let them know their money is still going into good hands. For us however, there isn't much need to go into detail over little changes. If it's a major patch sure, but if it's something that fixes server stability then...meh... don't need all the technical mumbo jumbo. As long as something was done. But I do see your point nonetheless. We're the ones who are trying the product so we do deserve more detail. Doubt many game shareholders actually play the games they invest in. Mostly just sit there and count their money. Edited March 23, 2012 by DjSnazzyduds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 so honestly if i wanted to know everything about your business..you would tell me..since i like to know as much about everything as i can.. you will have 100% open conversation with me.. tell me all your companies inner secrets? of course you wont. you say i wouldnt accept a fiddled with this or that ..thats true..but if i have no clue how something works it is an insult to you for me to demand 100% clarification on exactly what you did..i paid YOU to fix it so i wouldnt have to.. but if you feel you would give 100% information to people who asked.. your company will go under very quickly because someone out there will steal your company secrets. there are reasons why when you work for big companies you sign non disclosure agreements. people will misuse the information they are given.. but regardless..if you are unhappy with biowares disclosure of information send them an email.. and i am sure they will tell you that they have given more than enough info in the patch notes. We are continuing to veer a bit here. I am not saying you share company secrets (i.e. competitive edge, proprietary information, etc..). I am saying if I fixed your plumbing and you asked me what I did, I would be more than happy to explain every thing in as excruciatingly complex detail as you wanted. But, that's because I like to educate people and I can build trust that way (that I did, indeed, fix your issue and did it without over charging or performing something unnecessary). Credibility is a huge issue in business. Being purposefully vague is a recipe for short term gain with long term pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beergogglez Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 you guys complain on the most dumbest stuff. Like I know you can post stuff, but there's a search button with like 50 of these threads already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nastynas Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think I've seen it all now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirUrza Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Whatever they improved they broke. Sicne 1.1.5d I've dropped from warzones multiple times a day. Either on load or in the middle of a match, straight back to the character screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lheim Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Seriously? Unless you have a degree in network engineering, I think discussion of the specifics would leave the majority of you glaze-eyed and bored to tears. Why are you asking for this? It's like Laforge trying to explain to those stupid aliens what he's going to do when all they want to hear him say is "I make this ship go." I've seen discussions here on this board that take the literal bleeding cake - but this? This right here? This is proof that there's a subset of you folks on this board who absolutely want nothing else than to try to make this game tank, and that you'd complain if Jesus came in and said 'Hey, by the way, PvP is fixed. You're welcome.' Edited March 28, 2012 by Lheim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Just seems vague to me. As a paying customer I would like to see more than. "Fixed servers" When you bring your car in for a service, do you want to hear exactly what they did to it, or just. "Made changes to the vehicles overall stability" Except, you don't own the servers, Bioware owns the servers. They just want you to know that they servers are, you know, more stable now than they were before. Doesn't matter what they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonoka Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I will quote Sippix for the 2cnd time because this is a perfect example of my point. If in fact that is what they did, then why would it be so hard to say that? What a fantastic patch note that would have been. Very easy for most computer users to understand and relate with, very informed and to the point. Not too much to ask I say. Yes, it is. It is a waste of time to put all that crap in that you and maybe three other players want to know that you will only read once. Lets see if you get this. I'm a retired mechanic. I can't tell you what my spark plug gap is set at or the air flow rates. Why? Because I pay somebody else to worry about those things for me. Just like I pay BW to keep the servers going. Could have an intern on a stationary bike connected to a generator keeping the servers up... Do not care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chross Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I agree... this tells me nothing. I think I have the right to know that my monthly sub is keeping Harry the Hamster and Gerry the Gerbil sufficiently fed and watered so that they can keep the servers running stable.... ssshhssssshh cmon what else do you really wanna know other than...... Is your Server running... Yes / No Yeah, no. You actually don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 "Implemented changes to improve overall server stability." Could yall possibly be more vague in your patch notes discription? Actually yes, yes they could. "Did something during maintenance" Honestly, if your server has crashed and you cannot login, as a customer you have a reasonable expectation that they keep you informed on their status and estimates to get the server back up and running so thqt you can have your one legal right under the terms of your subscription fulfilled (access to the game). But what they do in the backfield to improve overall stability of the servers is not something you need to know in any detail. "Changed code lines 120004-120025 in server call routine "hippity-jippity" would be useless to you. They had to make some statement at a high level or people would be barfing all over the forum demanding to know why the servers were down for maintenance if nothing was changed. For things like this, less is more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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