Why remove expertise?

[-Alma-]

You dont need gear with expertise stats. Simply remove expertise from all pvp gear.

 

Make the stats of current pvp gear (centurion/champion/bm) identical to that of equivalent pve obtained gear and make the pvp gear obtainable via warzone comms. Keep the visual appearance unique between the two and give pvp gear a valor requirement (otherwise remove valor from the game, its doing zilch other than provide useless titles).

 

The only balancing out will be figuring out how many warzone comms for each pvp piece as that needs to be comparable to how long it would take on average to get the pve equivalent piece.

 

Not rocket science is it. As I mentioned before, its the only way to solve this mess.

[Evilsteps]

If there was only 1 set of gear for both pvp and pve, that would mean there would only be one set of armor set bonuses. This would mean that the armor set bonuses would have to be something that is useful in both pve and pvp, but not incredibly useful for either one. This doesn't make anyone happy.

 

With one set of gear for pvp, and one for pve, there can be armor set bonuses that are tailored towards pvp or pve.

 

Or the set bonus could have one effect in PvP and have another in PvE. There are plenty of ways to get rid of having to have two different sets of gear. MMO's wont do that because then the content would be run dry even quicker.

[FoxNemhauser]

Expertise does serve a purpose, seperating PvP and PvE. If there was no expertise, PvE'ers would just faceroll the warzones. Also, it takes like a week to get full champ gear, suck it up and then you can use your "skill" to kill people

 

Please explain how would PvE'ers just faceroll the warzones

 

if you remove the expertise and of course bump the stats to be comparable with pve gear - why would pvers faceroll in warzones?

 

do you mean that pve'rs are better in general and given the equal footing - would just own pvpers ? i hope you're not implying that because it's just bull.

 

 

i don't see a point in separating pvp gear from pve gear... it only makes people who enjoy both aspects of the game grind more (to get both sets)

 

 

ah and btw, rakata mods/enhancements are better that battlemaster... if someone wants to have an edge - he gets battlemaster and he gets rakata, then he mixes best of both and gets even better gear for pvp (battlemaster with rakata mods); pure pvp guy doesn't have that option.

Edited March 23, 2012 by FoxNemhauser

[FoxNemhauser]

Expertise and separate gear sets exist to prevent the aquisition of gear NEEDED for HM/NM progression without the effort of completing the requisite difficulties.

 

This guy gets it.

 

 

if that was the goal then PvE gear would have some synthetic stat that would work on PvE mobs (so pvp gear could not be comparable)

 

besides, you still can... my alt did not PvE HM flashpoints/normal operations but went into nightmare EV and did the first three bosses without a wipe.. (no pve gear...)

 

 

edit: sorry for double post, i wanted to edit the earlier post but failed

Edited March 23, 2012 by FoxNemhauser

[Dee-Jay]

Because those people are dumb. If you remove expertise people in endgame raidgear will mop the floor with people who only pvp.

 

What if Rakata/Columi gear replaced BM/Champion gear?

 

If the numbers are balanced right, I see no problem with PvP granting the same rewards as PvE as long as both routes are equally challenging.

[Kerishnak]

Please explain how would PvE'ers just faceroll the warzones

 

 

i don't see a point in separating pvp gear from pve gear... it only makes people who enjoy both aspects of the game grind more (to get both sets)

 

 

Well Obviously if you spend Ample time fighting AI that you could never kill on your own, never changes it strategy, and responds to agro, You will become a MASTER of Player vs player battles!!! Because players play just like raid bosses!

 

"i don't see a point in separating pvp gear from pve gear... it only makes people who enjoy both aspects of the game grind more (to get both sets)" EggfookinZactly.

 

This is me - I like to pvp most of the time but i also like to join the guild in a pve 8 man raid from time to time.

Well I only have top end pvp gear (thats taken me a relatively long time to acquire) - and because of this i should be 'punished' by being unable to raid due to my comparatively terrible stats of those who strictly pve....

 

Then your buddy who only really pve's comes out to play a warzone and gets his bum bum assaulted by a player of equal skill level every single time he tries to fight him/her.

 

It just doesn't make sense......

[mSum]

Two sets of gear is cool, but a way to auto switch gear sets would be nice. Oh and duel spec would be nice too BW.

[xxdragonragexx]

The common misconception is that expertise or pvp stat is there so that raiders don't own pvpers with raid gear. THAT IS NOT TRUE.

 

Exprtise is there so that raiders do not get pissed off. Simple fact is that if the Best In Slot Gear is available in pvp, then all pvpers will be happy. But raiders will not.

 

Raiders need to spend 2-3 hours in a dungeon to complete it then the dungeon gets a lockout timer. In order to do this, they will also need people to get into a decent group that won't wipe in a boss fight.

 

Guess what will happen to the raiders if both gears are the same? They will then abandon raiding and get their gear through pvp because pvp gear progression is linear and requires barely any effort. Even if you lose, you get gear. Even if you afk, you get gear.

 

Imagine looking for people for a dungeon only to find out that they would rather pvp and hate it because it is easier. In short, this game will die because its main focus is PvE or story telling. PvP in this game is just an after thought. Expertise proves this point.

[Joetwoshots]

If it was mainly focused on pve, EA/BW wouldnt destroy pve class balance to fix problems in pvp(look-operatives, and 1.2 patch-sorcerors and merc healers)

[xxdragonragexx]

If it was mainly focused on pve, EA/BW wouldnt destroy pve class balance to fix problems in pvp(look-operatives, and 1.2 patch-sorcerors and merc healers)

 

Just because the main focus is PvE, doesn't mean they are throwing away pvp. If a class is giving way too much frustration and a source of player quitting then they will definitely nerf that class. Other than that, Bioware will most likely let it slide.

[Khoraji]

Please explain how would PvE'ers just faceroll the warzones

 

if you remove the expertise and of course bump the stats to be comparable with pve gear - why would pvers faceroll in warzones?

 

do you mean that pve'rs are better in general and given the equal footing - would just own pvpers ? i hope you're not implying that because it's just bull.

 

Well there you said it, you would have to bump up the stats on PvP gear to make it equal to PvE raid gear.

 

You really think PvE'ers would let that happen? They are bigger whiners than the scrubs that post about getting rid of expertise.

[Khoraji]

took me 4 days to get full champ/centurion mix with 550 expertise on my scoundrel.

 

8 bags from dailies

6 bags saved while getting to 50

6 bags from weeklies

 

Next patch you can buy full champion gear with credits and BM gear is 1000 commendations.

 

.

.

.

 

The QQ is just too strong with some people.

 

This....

[Agooz]

 

And the only reason PvE gear has slightly better stats in the first place is because of the dated and inefficient raid encounter design.

 

 

PvE gear of the same quality/tier is not slightly better, it is alot better. Expertise, like what others are trying to get through to you, is to somewhat balance that gap. If the stats of PvE were only slightly better, than expertise would have made only a slight difference, and you wouldnt be posting on a "remove expertise" thread.

Another proof that PvE gear more than makes up for Expertise in many cases, is that there are plenty of very good PvPers that use PvE sets. Healers are the only AC that make full use of Expertise.

If anything, gear balance is still tipped towards PvE. You can go PvP in full rakata gear and quite easily own a WZ. On the other hand full BM is barely adequate for HM Ops, and imo not sufficient for NM. Not that I am complaining, I think that's the way it should be.

[Rodingo]

The common misconception is that expertise or pvp stat is there so that raiders don't own pvpers with raid gear. THAT IS NOT TRUE.

 

Exprtise is there so that raiders do not get pissed off. Simple fact is that if the Best In Slot Gear is available in pvp, then all pvpers will be happy. But raiders will not.

 

Raiders need to spend 2-3 hours in a dungeon to complete it then the dungeon gets a lockout timer. In order to do this, they will also need people to get into a decent group that won't wipe in a boss fight.

 

Guess what will happen to the raiders if both gears are the same? They will then abandon raiding and get their gear through pvp because pvp gear progression is linear and requires barely any effort. Even if you lose, you get gear. Even if you afk, you get gear.

 

Imagine looking for people for a dungeon only to find out that they would rather pvp and hate it because it is easier. In short, this game will die because its main focus is PvE or story telling. PvP in this game is just an after thought. Expertise proves this point.

 

Why would a raider stop raiding, to get the same gear in pvp? Doesn't make sense. For one, there requires a valor level to wear higher pvp gear, correct? If the "raider" has a high enough valor level to wear the upper tier pvp gear, then guess what? He is also probably a pvp'er as well? You make it sound like someone who has spent all of their time pve'ing decided to go pvp on a whim get their valor levels in the same amount of time it would take him/her to raid. On that same note,..why would the pvp'er stop pvping to go raid? If the pvp'er wanted to raid, then he would have done that instead of pvp'ing. I think it's safe to assume that the raider's slot is still safe from the pvp'er. And if not,...then oh my gosh,..someone is getting their $15 worth that they pay a month to play the game.

 

p.s.: People that like pve, raid. People that like pvp, pvp. And sometimes, there are those who like both! Zoinks!

Edited March 23, 2012 by Rodingo

[therouterninja]

You guys are all missing the point

 

At the grand scale of things, expertise/gear/and various other mechanics are designed to keep you "grinding." This then keeps you playing more, which keeps you subscribed for much longer than you normally would.

 

Imagine how many people hit 50 to get clobbered, and then say to themselves "If I had better gear I'd do much better." WHAM, they're stuck in the grind for another month reaching for champ gear, then bm gear, and possibly more if they didn't have 50 valor when they hit 50.

 

If they didn't have expertise, they'd jump into the warzone and completely get clobbered. Then realizing they suck at PvP, likely quit after they discover a lack of PvE endgame content.

 

I realize this is just one scenario, but based on my experience in WZ's, i'd guess it's the majority of players.

[xxdragonragexx]

Why would a raider stop raiding, to get the same gear in pvp? Doesn't make sense. For one, there requires a valor level to wear higher pvp gear, correct? If the "raider" has a high enough valor level to wear the upper tier pvp gear, then guess what? He is also probably a pvp'er as well? You make it sound like someone who has spent all of their time pve'ing decided to go pvp on a whim get their valor levels in the same amount of time it would take him/her to raid. On that same note,..why would the pvp'er stop pvping to go raid? If the pvp'er wanted to raid, then he would have done that instead of pvp'ing. I think it's safe to assume that the raider's slot is still safe from the pvp'er. And if not,...then oh my gosh,..someone is getting their $15 worth that they pay a month to play the game.

 

p.s.: People that like pve, raid. People that like pvp, pvp. And sometimes, there are those who like both! Zoinks!

 

This has been explained in so many pages ago and in so many different threads. The simple fact is that players just want to get the best gear, min/max their character and have the coolest armor ever. It doesn't matter if they are a pvper, raider or whatever. They will do the most mind numbing tasks even if they don't enjoy it as long as they get gear.

 

Raids or dungeons have a lockout timer which lasts for xxx days. Raiders cannot get gear until then. The only way to get gear is through pvp. So what is going to happen is that the majority of players will go to pvp for gear because it is linear, doesn't require effort and when you lose, you still get points. In raids, you wipe, you do everything over again and waste time.

 

But I'll explain it in a more simpler way. Lets say there is a raider, paul, and he is with 3 other friends. They raid this dungeon Y every tuesday, and saturday. On tuesday, they raid the dungeon. Paul expected to raid the dungeon again of Saturday only to find that most of his friends are already full raid gear and they got it through pvp. But they still raid Dungeon Y. On tuesday, most of Paul's friends wants to raid the next dungeon, unfortunately for Paul, he doesn't have enough gear for the next one. So he has to pvp which he hates just to raid with his friends.

 

In the end, no one even bothers raiding because it is easier to get gear through pvp. Raiding became a side show. Something people do after they get the best gear in pvp. Unfortunately, this is a PvE game. The moment this happens, this game will die.

 

There is a reason why there are 2 sets of gear and why MMO companies put in twice the work, and resources in creating two sets of gear instead of one. If you still don't understand, you should go research it.

Edited March 23, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Tricky-Ha]

When WE say that expertise needs to be removed, it's implied that PVP & PVE gear need to have the same stats. Don't question it. Just do it.

[Mirthadrond]

I have a heck of a lot of fun doing PVP from lvl 10 - 49. Once I hit 50 that toon is retired.

 

I have no interest in getting utterly destroyed post 50, for 2 weeks, until I can get gear so I can be slightly more competitive, and more time again so I can be on par with full BM gear'd 50's.

 

PVP gear grinding SUCKS! It is a far cry worse the PVE gear grinding and always will be.

You cannot compare the two, they are apples to oranges.

 

PVP gear disparity creates massive imbalance, and makes post 50 PVP absolutely NO FUN.

 

Since it is no fun, I do not play

 

On a personal note, I PVP because it's fun and I love the team aspect. I could care less about gear, with exception to vanity purposes, and again.. IMHO - the BM gear looks ridiculous, so again.. I've no incentive to get it.

I want the playing field as even as possible so that the best players/team wins, not the best gear'd.

 

 

Get rid of expertise Bioware. Make POST 50 PVP fun.

[Rodingo]

This has been explained in so many pages ago and in so many different threads. The simple fact is that players just want to get the best gear, min/max their character and have the coolest armor ever. It doesn't matter if they are a pvper, raider or whatever. They will do the most mind numbing tasks even if they don't enjoy it as long as they get gear.

 

Raids or dungeons have a lockout timer which lasts for xxx days. Raiders cannot get gear until then. The only way to get gear is through pvp. So what is going to happen is that the majority of players will go to pvp for gear because it is linear, doesn't require effort and when you lose, you still get points. In raids, you wipe, you do everything over again and waste time.

 

But I'll explain it in a more simpler way. Lets say there is a raider, paul, and he is with 3 other friends. They raid this dungeon Y every tuesday, and saturday. On tuesday, they raid the dungeon. Paul expected to raid the dungeon again of Saturday only to find that most of his friends are already full raid gear and they got it through pvp. But they still raid Dungeon Y. On tuesday, most of Paul's friends wants to raid the next dungeon, unfortunately for Paul, he doesn't have enough gear for the next one. So he has to pvp which he hates just to raid with his friends.

 

In the end, no one even bothers raiding because it is easier to get gear through pvp. Raiding became a side show. Something people do after they get the best gear in pvp. Unfortunately, this is a PvE game. The moment this happens, this game will die.

 

There is a reason why there are 2 sets of gear and why MMO companies put in twice the work, and resources in creating two sets of gear instead of one. If you still don't understand, you should go research it.

 

I understand just fine. However, you are assuming everyone is like you and they want this best gear and will do it which ever way possible. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people who hate pvp but love raiding and will follow the usual progression that all raiders do to get their gear. Your story/scenario might not be far from the truth for some cases/guilds/players/whatever, but to assume EVERYONE thinks that way is naive. And as far as the whole two sets of gear deal, I can only think of two other MMOs that have separate sets (other than swtor) seperated by pve or pvp. One of them is a behemoth and is not successful based off it's pvp. The other game (which is the opposite of successful) has devs linked to swtor. Do you need hints on the two MMOs I'm talking about or are you going to follow your own advice and go do some research?

[L-RANDLE]

I have a heck of a lot of fun doing PVP from lvl 10 - 49. Once I hit 50 that toon is retired.

 

I have no interest in getting utterly destroyed post 50, for 2 weeks, until I can get gear so I can be slightly more competitive, and more time again so I can be on par with full BM gear'd 50's.

 

PVP gear grinding SUCKS! It is a far cry worse the PVE gear grinding and always will be.

You cannot compare the two, they are apples to oranges.

 

PVP gear disparity creates massive imbalance, and makes post 50 PVP absolutely NO FUN.

 

Since it is no fun, I do not play

 

On a personal note, I PVP because it's fun and I love the team aspect. I could care less about gear, with exception to vanity purposes, and again.. IMHO - the BM gear looks ridiculous, so again.. I've no incentive to get it.

I want the playing field as even as possible so that the best players/team wins, not the best gear'd.

 

 

Get rid of expertise Bioware. Make POST 50 PVP fun.

 

Dude, expertise HAS to stay and it NEEDED to be buffed as long as PvE armor is allowed in PvP.. Here is a discussion before the patch notes came out...

 

 

 

Cmon..... Troll?.... No.... I can add, that's all... PvP gear progession is not what is wrong with PvP. It's minor compared to two other reasons....

And those are...?

 

Not exactly a compelling argument.

 

Still haven't figured it out...... Assume a PvE server?

 

1. End game crafting

2. Hybrid sets...

 

 

PvP gear needs to be buffed....

 

 

I can't speak on a PvP server, but I would suspect that a lot more players do both versus one or the other. That is where I am coming from. IDK, in the 10-49 bracket, how do you get gear on a PvP server? But if you have been PvPing the entire time, regardless of the server you are on, then you should be able to get cent gear. If you think BM gear gives such a huge over Cent then ok.... I guess...

 

Speaking on a PvE server:

1. There is no crafting of lvl 51 or higher epics without doing PvE, which forces you to "grind" in most cases.

2. PvP gear is a HUGE nerf compared to the PvE equivelent, stat wise. I might be a "bad" player, but I'm good at math. It needs to be buffed for the PvP only people, especially when cross server comes down.

3. It's also not using PvE gear per say. It's what I would call "stacking" mods, regardless of where they come from.. So even on a PvP server, you can increase your output without sacrificing a set bonus...

 

 

This is why the facerolling is happening.... Argue that non-locked mods/enhancement are causing problems. Or buying epics is not available....

 

LOL!!!

 

Oh really, PVE mods are what is causing the disparity? Not Expertise which gives as much as 20% damage differences between the exact same specs? 10% extra damage and 10% damage reduction.

 

See dude, your BS doesn't work when people actually know how the game works, and you seem to have plenty of L2P left to do. Probably exactly why you need gear to help you win.

LOL AND YOU "MR. REAL PvPER" KNOWS THAT EXPERTISE IS CAUSING THE FACEROLL OR ADVANTAGE. WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT....

 

YOUR GAME EXPERTISE GOES UNQUESTIONED!! SO ANSWER THESE:

 

DOES BM GEAR GIVES A DECIDED ADVANTAGE OVER CENT GEAR?

DO YOU THINK +39 EXP IS BETTER THAN +6 WILLPOWER FROM A DAMAGE STAND POINT?

 

 

IF YOU ANSWERED YES TO EITHER, SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE BUT YOU ARE NOT GOOD AT MATH.

 

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT ADDING EXP NERFS YOUR MAIN STAT BY MORE THAN THE PERCENTAGE EXP INCREASE, WHICH INHERENTLY MAKES PvP GEAR WORTHLESS!!!! THERE IS A REASON I WAS BUYING CENT PIECES FOR MY COMPANION TANK!! THE CENT PIECES WERE NOT AN IMPROVEMENT OF WHAT WAS I ALREADY ACCUMULATED VIA QUESTING AND CRAFTING!!!! THEN YOU ADD COLUMI, HYBRID COLUMI, AND RAKATA INTO THE MIX AND THE FACEROLLING BEGINS...

 

YEAH SURE, IF YOU DON'T HAVE LVL 50/51 STUFF OR HAVE NO EXPERTISE, A BM WILL ROLL YOU, BUT THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR SAYING SOMETHING GIVES A DECIDED ADVANTAGE WHEN BECOMING FEASIBLE IS EASILY ATTAINABLE!!! GOD!!!

 

 

Here.... someone has already point out this fact... Read the quotes from Noctournys on this thread, go check your own stats on that "same level" equipment. Oh wait, do you have your PvP gear?

 

So if you are so right about expertise then why use BM at all, is pve gear dominates pvp gear why isn't everyone running top pve gear only? And while your main stat will give you more damage it does not give you the reduction, so you can't compare it to just aim/willpower/cunning/strength have to add endurance in there as well. But oh wait, simply having more HP is not proportional to having more damage mitigation.

 

But with the huge damage gap mitigated the damage reduction because it will take less attacks to stop you 1v1. You are right.. why use BM at all? Some people already figured that out. Hybrid Columi is better than BM. There is not honesty in PvP... People are doing this, so why should I complain when I can hop on the train pretty easily. I don't have ANY BM pieces and I will never use them because I know other people are doing the same...

 

 

PS: Here are the stat differences for one piece trade off between BM and Cent:

 

 

-27 END (270HP......LOL)

-32 WP (meaningful....but not insumountable)

-11 ALA (OMG what a joke)

-11 EXP (You all know how I feel about that.... .308% damage I/O an even bigger joke)

+11 CRIT (BIG LOLZ.... I LOST SOME BURST)

 

 

And some pieces are even worst..... you didn't read the link did you?

Edited March 23, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[RealAeiouy]

Most of the players defending expertise, hopped onto the PvP bandwagon during / or long after 2007...this is all that they are used to.

 

PvP was fine before then (even better for the opinion of some). The excuse to say that PvE players will mop the floor with anyone not PvE geared has no basis. Blizzard put resilience into the game, because - at the time - getting into a 40-man raiding guild was difficult for some players. But since most games, WoW included, reduced the size of a raiding group...getting exposed to raiding material is really easy.

 

As it stands right now, it was easier to become involved/expand-the-intrigue of newer players with an older non-expertise system. In that system the gear you used to cap your level was closer, stat-wise, with raiding gear than Expertise/Resilience gear.

 

Otherwise it will just be the same 30-50 people gearing up, while the rest of the world goes and plays a game that doesn't cater to someone who unrealistically plays 24/7. I don't call something PvP if i am always gearing up to PvP. I call it PvP to prove i am formerly hardcore and can embarrass newer and younger "hardcore" players because my teammates and I simply play better.

 

Lol no. I am sure I have been pvping online long before you were.

 

There used to not even be pvp gear, pvp players had to pve for gear. That you don't know that or know no real pvpers liked that set up proves you are talking nonsense.

 

Pvp players want to be able to get bis pvp gear from pvp. That is the only real concern. The rest of the issues come from pve players. Expertise easily addresses the relevant issues.

[RealAeiouy]

This! You don't need expertise, just make the tiers of gear exactly the same same stat wise in both PvE and PvP awards. Expertise only benefits those with lots of free time and not only segregates the PvE and PvP world, but it also segregates the PvP community to those with and those without. Tier the gear stats, but get rid of the expertise and the whole community could enjoy both sides of the game without a hinderance.

 

People who pve raid are not okay with this idea.

 

The only reason most people raid is because it is the only way to get the best pve gear.

 

As a pvper seeing what pvers do to warzones while they play horribly trying to get gear I don't want them pvping for gear either. Making a single set of gear negatively impacts pve and pvp significantly.

[Akiva_IC]

Lol no. I am sure I have been pvping online long before you were.

 

There used to not even be pvp gear, pvp players had to pve for gear. That you don't know that or know no real pvpers liked that set up proves you are talking nonsense.

 

Pvp players want to be able to get bis pvp gear from pvp. That is the only real concern. The rest of the issues come from pve players. Expertise easily addresses the relevant issues.

 

Agreed. If people dont want to PVE, they shouldn't be forced to. Neither should the small percentage of people who succesfully raid end-game be able to come into warzones once a week and face stomp.

 

If you play PVP, you'll grind PVP armor and do better in ... PVP.

 

If you play PVE, you'll grind PVE armor and do better in ... PVE.

 

If armor that performed as well was available in both, there's be no reason to ever play the other. Given the inherent nature of PVP vs PVE, I suspect 90% of people would just grind away in PVP to get the top-tier gear, leaving raiding a dead art altogether.

 

So, if you're a radier and you spend 1000 hours raiding, you'll have the gear to show for it. Gear that says "look at how good I am at raiding and how much effort I put in to it."

 

If you're a PVPer and you put 1000 hours into PVP, you'll have the gear to show for it, gear that says "I will facestomp you in PVP and here's the proof."

 

If you play one heavily and only dabble in the other? Well, your gear may be somewhat respectable there, but you're not putting the time or energy enough into it to deserve to be king of the hill on a hill you never even bothered to climb.

 

This is one of the things that SWTOR got right - the people who want to fight other people and the people who want to raid are usually VASTLY different individuals. This way, the game can attract and cater to them both .. and never the two need to meet.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Akiva_IC

[hargrave]

ihave full champ set now and its not different and whenever i see someone with full bm set their just out killing anyone who doesnt have bm suit like there a lvl 40 npc. Why i didnt bother getting bm suit why thy think its justifable to get those suits and people who dont are swiss cheese all that did was make me not want to get bm suit.....

[FormulaOne]

Lol no. I am sure I have been pvping online long before you were.

 

There used to not even be pvp gear, pvp players had to pve for gear. That you don't know that or know no real pvpers liked that set up proves you are talking nonsense.

 

Pvp players want to be able to get bis pvp gear from pvp. That is the only real concern. The rest of the issues come from pve players. Expertise easily addresses the relevant issues.

 

Let's just say you have been playing longer, to make you feel better, then you obviously haven't been reading a long time, because you didn't really read anything that was written.

 

PvP was fine, even with raiding gear and the PvP gear without a stat (since we are referring to vanilla WoW and not other pre-resilience/expertise games - SWG, EQ, etc...). If you had a hard time finding a guild to raid, or in the case of the old Honor System, you couldn't gain any rank...then these aren't developer problems. As for the rest, I already wrote it. Read again.

Edited March 23, 2012 by FormulaOne