I think you are the one who doesn't get it, but no biggie. We know it's to stop Raiders from using pvp gear and vice versa. The question is, why do they need to be stopped if they put in a mechanic for you to get equivalent gear as a pvp'er? Instead of having pvp and pve gear, why not just have "gear"? I didn't buy "SWTOR: PVP version" and pve'ers didn't buy "SWTOR:PVE version". We bought just SWTOR which means we want to enjoy ALL aspects of the game. Like I and many others have already stated, separating the already declining population by two is not healthy for this game. Some people like both pve and pvp and also happen to be good at both. But since this game gates people into one or the other, then paying full price for only half of a game is ludicrous. Maybe full sub price for a half-baked pvp game is for you, but there are a lot of us that expect more. Does this make sense to you now?

You know if they removed expertise and you lose to someone who does pve all the time to get raid gear, then maybe you are the one who is bad. One way to look at it is, you suck at pvp. Another way is, maybe the guy who is wearing the raid gear, also pvps! *gasp*. So then guess what ?!? You were beat by someone who enjoys all aspects of the game. You can still have pvp gear without a crutch stat. No one is asking for pvp gear to go away. Just to remove the artificial skill stat. Blame BW for not making pvp gear equal to pve raid gear. And don't try to give me that crap that if pvp and pve gear were equal that all players would take the easiest/quickest route to gear up. If I knew I could get nice gear by just pve'ing that I could use for pvp, guess what? I would still pvp for that gear because that's what I love. Separating the population by pvp gear and pve gear is one of the factors that is hurting this game. It's why I cancelled along with many others. Sure some of you may say "good riddance", but we are the same people that will be saying "welcome" when you eventually join us in another game, other than this one due to BW's misunderstanding of what it takes to make a proper pvp game.

NOT NEEDED. You are either good at pvp or you are not. If you need an extra stat to tell yourself that you are good, then maybe you shouldn't be pvp'ing.

Not to get too nit picky, but you meant "goodbye" and not "good buy" right? SWTOR is definitely not a "good buy" anymore.

I also pre-canceled. Normally I don't post on these types of threads but this is another one of those "had so much potential" MMOs and really bugs me to quit over pvp, but it's the only thing I like to do for end game now a days. Let's face it, end game pvp is a joke and only caters to people who need gear to make up for lack of skill. I never wanted free gear, or easy to obtain gear. I just think "expertise" (lol the irony) is pretty ridiculous and unnecessary. But hey, what do I know? Other than I am one more person not going to give EA money each month any more.

True, maybe a lvl 10 can't beat a lvl 49 in a 1v1, but how long is that lvl 10 going to stay lvl 10? An hour maybe? And I guarantee you that you can destroy lvl 49s at lvl 20 (which can be done in the fraction amount of time it takes to gear up), and that is w/o any special gear to use as a crutch either.

You do realize you really can't "stay at 49", right? The funny thing is, the lvl 49 person has a higher chance of being destroyed in a WZ by a lowbie than a BM geared 50 does to a fresh 50. We all know that expertise (lol I still get a kick out BW calling the extra stat that) gear isn't the factor in 10-49 bracket, so is *gasp* skill that allows the lowbie to destroy the lvl 49? BTW, here is the definition of expertise. See the irony?

The most hilarious thing about the extra stat pvp gear has is that it's called "expertise". This is the definition of expertise . It's ironic isn't it? Why can't players rely on expertise instead of "expertise"?

It's amazing how much that effect rears it's head in these forums too.

The only good solution I see is to allow backfill so the team can even out again encase someone drops for no fault of their own. Then for the person who is the "backfiller", if that match is a loss, he shouldn't take a hit for it. The rating should only change if the team wins, then maybe they can count that as an "assist" or something in their personal stats instead of an actual win?

You might want to loosen your tin foil hat a little bit. I suspect you have a red ring around your head now.

Haha, so very true!

They should just do everyone a favor and rename the Operative/Scoundrel class to Medic so there is no confusion on what the class is intended for. On a side note, it's to bad (kinda) that Operatives (Medics) can't bring the pain like combat medics of SWG. Now that was some brutal she-eye-it. Could you imaging the cries for nerfs then if that was the case?

The crutch babies will still whine and say "but, but, but what about my expertise stat? I play a lot of pvp, so I earned that!". This is what expertise is. Why not just use that?

Lol, I would love for you to give some examples please (keep in mind you said "several") Also, please tell me you don't pug as Pub on The Swiftsure.

^Yeh pretty much that. The ops leader was the "idiot" for specifically calling you off of a node if you were the ONLY person defending it.

I can completely understand that. My question is then this, does that increase in stats HAVE to be in the form of expertise? Do you really care if a pve'er can wear their top level gear also to increase their stats as well? After all, if someone is "good" at pvp, and their gear matches the pve'er, wouldn't the pvp'er win the fight unless the pve'er actually pvps too AND is also better skilled than the guy who only pvps?

Great! So what's the issue then about a level playing field?

That's great for champion geared players. That difference is very negligible to begin with. However, the difference between someone with 400-500 expertise versus someone with what, maybe 50-100 as a fresh 50 is pretty big. No matter how you slice it, the person who hits harder, and takes less damage due to a stat you really don't have, then that is an advantage. In other words, and this is just for example of course,...if two people have 500 total armor, 50 aim, 50 end, 50 power, and only one of those has people have an extra stat that guarantees they will take 15% less damage and do 15% more damage, and be healed by 15% more,..then they have an advantage. Sure,..maybe if the person with the extra stat is a complete mouth breather at pvp (however so far every BM geared person that posts on these types of threads claim they still have skill), then the lesser geared person miiiggght possibly be able to beat them. But chances are, if they are somewhat evenly skilled, then the person with the advantage is going to win every time. It's simple arithmetic. I don't care if another player has more endurance than me, or more aim, strength, armor, whatever. Yeh that's right, I don't want free gear like some people assume that those of us who don't want expertise in the game, claim. But if the person I'm fighting has more of the SAME type of stat than I have, plus an extra stat that guarantees even more damage done and less received is just plain stupid.

What happens to a handicap person when take away their crutches? They will most likely fall on their face. It hurts and sucks for them. This is exactly what I see about people complaining about having their precious expertise (crutch) taken away from them. They will fall, get hurt and cry about it. If this gear progression is so easy in the first place, and you already have your BM gear, then why are you still pvp'ing? According to some of the guys, that's the reason why they pvp is for gear progression. Ok,.....so once that ends, which again some of you claim is already easy anyways,..then what do you do? Do you quit playing since you no longer have progression? Orrrrr,....do you keep playing with your BM (crutch) because now you have any easy time actually beating under-geared players? I'm still waiting for a legitimate answer on why expertise is required to prove you "progressed". Plenty of alternatives have been suggested to take it's place, but not surprising the "I earneded mah gear!" crowd still only want to destroy lesser geared people.

As in let skill decide? I agree 100 percent and approve this message.

I understand just fine. However, you are assuming everyone is like you and they want this best gear and will do it which ever way possible. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people who hate pvp but love raiding and will follow the usual progression that all raiders do to get their gear. Your story/scenario might not be far from the truth for some cases/guilds/players/whatever, but to assume EVERYONE thinks that way is naive. And as far as the whole two sets of gear deal, I can only think of two other MMOs that have separate sets (other than swtor) seperated by pve or pvp. One of them is a behemoth and is not successful based off it's pvp. The other game (which is the opposite of successful) has devs linked to swtor. Do you need hints on the two MMOs I'm talking about or are you going to follow your own advice and go do some research?

Why would a raider stop raiding, to get the same gear in pvp? Doesn't make sense. For one, there requires a valor level to wear higher pvp gear, correct? If the "raider" has a high enough valor level to wear the upper tier pvp gear, then guess what? He is also probably a pvp'er as well? You make it sound like someone who has spent all of their time pve'ing decided to go pvp on a whim get their valor levels in the same amount of time it would take him/her to raid. On that same note,..why would the pvp'er stop pvping to go raid? If the pvp'er wanted to raid, then he would have done that instead of pvp'ing. I think it's safe to assume that the raider's slot is still safe from the pvp'er. And if not,...then oh my gosh,..someone is getting their $15 worth that they pay a month to play the game. p.s.: People that like pve, raid. People that like pvp, pvp. And sometimes, there are those who like both! Zoinks!

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. There are not enough OPs playing (anymore) or posting to make an audible squeak.

That really doesn't need to be answered. It's obvious they use gear as a crutch. I have yet to hear/read anything that proves otherwise.