Grubfist Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 First thing, Mara bubble isn't even close to as strong as the Paly one. Paly bubble: 8 seconds, immune to all forms of damage, removes any negative effects from the player and prevents further effects from hitting while bubble is up, costs nothing to cast. Mara bubble: 5 seconds, reduces 99% of damage (which yes is basically immune), does NOT remove any negative effects, does not prevent further negative effects (cc namely), costs HALF the remaining life of the Mara to cast. They don't compare, it is already so much worse than the Paly version on every part of the ability. It does not need a nerf, people just need to learn to cc when it's up and wait the 5 seconds. Or even kite. The OP claims that in those 6 seconds, the marauder can roflstomp like 3 people. If your teammates are going down in 2 seconds apiece, that marauder is not the problem here. They last slightly longer. Guess what? They're also melee. Kiting is not hard. I do it all the time on my 50s shadow, sage, and vanguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iite Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Not saying that marauders don't deserve this ability but this seems much better suited as a jug type ability, high up in the tanking tree. Edited March 11, 2012 by Iite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilure Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 based on the fact that you called it the "immunity bubble" instead of its proper name undying rage or Guarded by the Force, this leads me to believe you do not have a lvl 50 marauder/sentinel and therefore you opinion on whether this ability is OP is uneducated. Undying rage also takes 50% of your health, which means if you use the ability above 30% you've made a mistake. Its pretty easy to recognize, and thus counter. It sounds like you want to be able to COUNTER 100% of the time. Which just isn't realistic. IF the marauder doesn't have a full resolve bar, then a stun is an appropriate counter. If he does, then kiting is an appropriate solution. If you can't do either of these things, then you were not prepared to fight a marauder in the first place. If your primary complaint is that it makes him a super ball carrier, well thats just stupid. Huttball is a ranged dps dream, should we nerf ranged dps damage because of that? no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiroshei Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 good maras never use the ability until they are at like 10% hp. so the half hp loss is a joke. most of the time when a person is that low in health their resolve bar is full too. i have yet to see this ability used to "get away" or "survive". I've only ever seen this ability used to kill someone. just like ret pallies used to do. it was laughable then and you'd think bioware would've realized it would be laughable now. so far the naysayers have yet to say anything remotely constructive so i guess i'll keep waiting for the defense on keeping it the way it is. using comments like "youre bad" "l2p" just proves even more how wrong you are lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyuyu Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 First, you're talking about the wrong ability. See: http://www.torhead.com/ability/fYZIabE/undying-rage The point is that they remain fully offensive while gaining a tremendous amount of defense comparable to a paladin bubble. Not to mention, a 90 second cooldown? I have no idea what they were thinking when they were implementing this ability. It's for the lack of a better term: grossly overpowered and by far the best defensive cooldown in game at the current moment. This ability is godly in ranked PvP. 50% health sacrifice is nothing when a healer can just put a HoT on you while you are immune to damage. A frost mage in WoW could go immune with ice block but he basically stuns himself for the duration. While a mara can use it both defensively and offensively. *** was Bioware thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordresh Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Your comparison is awful. Undying rage: -Costs half your health -Reduces damage taken by 99% Paladin Bubble: -Costs nothing -Makes you immune to CC and breaks any CC on you -Reduces damage taken by 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fadingdimension Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Comparing this to a completely different class in a completely different game doesn't help your argument. Paladins could heal, cleanse, etc. They had completely different sets of tools in a completely different playing field with entirely different competition. Even in the scope of this game. Marauders are a completely different class than any other. They have completely different sets of tools. They have basically zero CC and very minimal mobility compared to the amount of CC, roots, snares, knock-backs other classes have. On top of that they do essentially 0 damage outside melee distance. To balance this they have great defensive cool-downs an great damage when in range of a target. Is this cool-down better than other classes defensive cool-downs? For the most part. But those other classes have other abilities and advantages instead. It's important to be objective and look at the entire scope of the game. Not tunnel vision on one ability/class/spec without considering the context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) This ability is godly in ranked PvP. 50% health sacrifice is nothing when a healer can just put a HoT on you while you are immune to damage. A frost mage in WoW could go immune with ice block but he basically stuns himself for the duration. While a mara can use it both defensively and offensively. *** was Bioware thinking? My point exactly. I've seen what good maras/sents can do with this ability and the recovery they can make with it is incredible. Pair that with a healer, guard or taunting tank on the enemy team and that mara/sent automatically becomes one of the lowest priority targets. Edited March 11, 2012 by Xinika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draeb Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) How about we nerf my pulse cannon since people stand in it? I'm playing devil's advocate, so I'm still on the fence here. What the OP has said is to take a look into it. Comparing pulse canon to undying rage was kind of random and careless on your part. One grants immunities and the other is just an easily countered ability. A better comparison would have been the force bubble from sorcs/sages but, then again we all know now that the bubble isn't all that powerful and doesn't grant immunity. When one class has an immunity it's always good to give it a looking into. More feedback from the community will be needed. Since I can't say for sure this thread should be open to constructive feedback and not people getting on the defensive. Edited March 11, 2012 by Draeb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quesadilla Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 The shadow/asssassin god mode is even more LOLtastic. a 45 second cooldown that makes you immune to tech and force attacks for 5 seconds is more of a joke than the marauder/sentinel one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiroshei Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 based on the fact that you called it the "immunity bubble" instead of its proper name undying rage or Guarded by the Force, this leads me to believe you do not have a lvl 50 marauder/sentinel and therefore you opinion on whether this ability is OP is uneducated. Undying rage also takes 50% of your health, which means if you use the ability above 30% you've made a mistake. Its pretty easy to recognize, and thus counter. It sounds like you want to be able to COUNTER 100% of the time. Which just isn't realistic. IF the marauder doesn't have a full resolve bar, then a stun is an appropriate counter. If he does, then kiting is an appropriate solution. If you can't do either of these things, then you were not prepared to fight a marauder in the first place. If your primary complaint is that it makes him a super ball carrier, well thats just stupid. Huttball is a ranged dps dream, should we nerf ranged dps damage because of that? no. tell me good sir how you kite a melee class that can just jump to you? please teach me youre ways. want to know! lol cmon now you can do better then this. i'm completely fine with maras being good ball carriers. as i've said its just that this ability isnt used defensively. its used offensively. which is the same reason blizz nerfed the pally bubble and pally's got upset. it wasnt being used as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyuyu Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 My point exactly. I've seen what good maras/sents can do with this ability and the recovery they can make with it is incredible. Pair that with a healer, guard or taunting tank on the enemy team and that mara/sent automatically becomes one of the lowest priority targets. The best burst dps class as lowest priority target in ranked PvP is simply godly. I am pretty sure it will get fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastix Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 it would be ok if they d have a decent cd on their cooldowns BUT NO! their vanish has a cd around 1 min or lower, their bubble has a cd of around 1 min or lower... now thats spamable immunity and thats what is ridiculous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubfist Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm playing devil's advocate, so I'm still on the fence here. What the OP has said is to take a look into it. Comparing pulse canon to undying rage was kind of random and careless on your part. One grants immunities and the other is just an easily countered ability. A better comparison would have been the force bubble from sorcs/sages but, then again we all know now that the bubble isn't all that powerful and doesn't grant near complete immunity. When one class has an immunity it's always good to give it a looking into. More feedback from the community will be needed. Since I can't say for sure this thread should be open to constructive feedback and not people getting on the defensive. People get on the defensive because the OP starts out on the offensive, and words his issue in a very accusatory way. Perhaps if he seeked knowledge about the ability (he clearly doesn't know many of the details), stated his opinion calmly, did not use ridiculous comparisons, and asked for opinions of other community members, he would have a rational discussion on his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse- Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 The bubble makes us effectively immune to damage, but does NOT make us immune to taunts or CC or blinds. It's only a defensive cooldown when we've got a healer. Otherwise, it's taking half our health to let us fight 5 seconds longer. Only way we survive once the bubble is gone is if we killed you before that. Oh yeah, that 5 seconds? That's 3 and a half globals. Three attacks. We're not killing multiple people in that timeframe without significant amounts of help, sorry. It's a very powerful ability, one of the best the class has, but it's not what you're trying to make it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 So if Mara's do less damage in Undying Rage, do Sins get to do less damage in Force Shroud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubfist Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 tell me good sir how you kite a melee class that can just jump to you? please teach me youre ways. want to know! lol cmon now you can do better then this. i'm completely fine with maras being good ball carriers. as i've said its just that this ability isnt used defensively. its used offensively. which is the same reason blizz nerfed the pally bubble and pally's got upset. it wasnt being used as intended. See, the jump is on a 12-15 second cooldown, depending on spec. When you're moving away from someone and they leap to you, you keep moving away, and then their leap is on cooldown and they can't leap! I mean, they have no stuns, and they can't exactly kill you in the 1.5 second (max) root their jump gives if you have more than like 100 hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiroshei Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 you can all bash my wow comparison is you like. the only reason i compared it is because this ability is being used in the same way. its not being used right. you can say thats my opinion. fine. it is my opinion. i think, however, that some dmg reduction would balance this ability out while still keeping hte class viable. pay attention to the people that know what they are talking about and not the "omg he brang up wow"....this game copied wow and they copied some of the bad parts that used to be wow. just like this ability right here. pretty sure bioware knows what ability i'm talking about regardless if i hold their hand and name it for them. as for the naysayers thanks for the free bumps to get the pvp teams attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Only counter is to CC them, since the Mara will only pop it at low health, negating the hp cost. But if their resolve is full, that is not an option. In all honesty, this is not the kind of skill that should be on the best DPS class in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Links_Knight Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 ok. youre wrong. just because bioware made it so all of my damage abilities while the bubble is up say 1, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2, 1. Does not mean its not an immunity. If they have 100hp left and pop this bubble it will literally take 60-70 attacks to kill them. Thats not an immunity? Popping all cooldowns and hitting them with my biggest hitting ability produces a whopping 4 dmg. lol. No it isnt an Immunity, I recomend looking up immunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiroshei Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 So if Mara's do less damage in Undying Rage, do Sins get to do less damage in Force Shroud? i would be completely fine with this to be honest. but only if it reduced all melee white damage i take to 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, lol....right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draeb Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 People get on the defensive because the OP starts out on the offensive, and words his issue in a very accusatory way. Perhaps if he seeked knowledge about the ability (he clearly doesn't know many of the details), stated his opinion calmly, did not use ridiculous comparisons, and asked for opinions of other community members, he would have a rational discussion on his hands. Just to get this back on track, any class with immunities needs to be looked at. I'll back up the OP on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draeb Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 So if Mara's do less damage in Undying Rage, do Sins get to do less damage in Force Shroud? If I remember correctly 'sins don't do damage while in force shroud. I believe what they do have is a bonus to attacks while coming out of stealth but it's really not that much of an increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse- Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 i would be completely fine with this to be honest. but only if it reduced all melee white damage i take to 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, lol....right? So your normal rotation against a medium armor target does 100, 200, 100, 100, 200 damage? You're complaining about a class that you don't understand, so you're not even complaining about the right things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiroshei Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 we are about to hit rated wz's and some things need to be fixed before that. talking about sorcs/sages all day is for another thread. with a proper team and coordination this ability is used way to offensively to NOT be OP. take huttball out of the equation and apply it to the other 2 warzones instead so you dont derail the topic on ball carrying. this isnt about ball carrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts