Elaril Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Why is this so difficult. You only have a max of two outside turrets, in the most confusing of circumstances. Is it really that hard to figure out which one is under siege based on the party member who called for help and/or your own relative location? The guy really should be able to type in basically anything indicating the need for help and you should know where to go. Edited March 7, 2012 by Elaril Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaakkeli Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I really don't see what the problem with using left / right is. That means you play Republic. Left = Left speeder in ship or turn left at the land point. Right = Right speeder on ship or turn right at the land point. Except that the turret you turn left for is on the right side of the map and the turret you turn right for is on the left side of the map. That is if you're Imperial. For the Republic the left and right when you start are the same as left and right on the map. Left/right calling is fine on Republic side but hopeless on Imperial side since half of the population uses the left/right on the map and the other half the left/right depending on how you turn at the start and they're different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 East-West is subjective? Huh? Maps are maps and East is always east and west is west. If I go stand by a tree in the woods east does not become west. Snow and Grass make sense. Left and right as you come out of the spawn is much easier to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noebert Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If it takes you 5 to 10 seconds to figure out what that means and you've played civil war as much as you say you have you're just slow or have no sense of direction. With reaction time like that I'm surprised you even like to pvp. ^^ many of us have played these same three maps enough to understand what people mean without having to think it through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxion Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 That means you play Republic. Except that the turret you turn left for is on the right side of the map and the turret you turn right for is on the left side of the map. That is if you're Imperial. For the Republic the left and right when you start are the same as left and right on the map. Left/right calling is fine on Republic side but hopeless on Imperial side since half of the population uses the left/right on the map and the other half the left/right depending on how you turn at the start and they're different. Fair point, as someone that does play primarily republic I didn't know that the map is the same way round on both sides. If true, I would have to agree that snow / grass on the imp side would probably make more sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmurie Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Maybe I'm the 1% but I know where they're calling out regardless, I can get my orientation for the map no matter where I'm at, it's not difficult, if you're in mid and look out 1 side it looks like your spawn, look directly behind you it's the enemy spawn...from there you "should" be able to figure out where you need to go. If you don't have a grasp of the map by now having multiple characters in both factions you're doing it wrong. To me grass and snow is the most consistent call out. Half the people will call out right based on where they're looking from, the other half will call it out from the direction they spawned and just as many will get it wrong trying to use it in relation to where they're looking. It comes down to you having situational awareness. If you can't do that, don't complain about call outs, learn the map better and be glad someone called out at all. A very good point but sometimes u are in an area running around as a melee (in your face combat), someone yells out grass or snow and u have to think were u are for a second. I always look at the mini map arrow and see which way i'm facing and turn right around in a split second. My other point is for all the noobs out there that don't know what grass & snow is yet! I don't want to think where I am for a second when you chase someone for a while and u end up running around in a corner that looks like grass or snow. Someone yells out "left/right or west/east" I start running in that directions on the mini map, I dont want to have a second to think... "where am I and which way do i go now." I don't want to lose that split second where I spin my jedi/sith in the right direction and head in that way in 1/4 of a second! A perfect example would be if your in mid, no matter which way you look or if your under mid, it looks the same! I guess I just play different! It's very interesting to know how everyone plays! Edited March 7, 2012 by pmurie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anrix Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) That means you play Republic. Except that the turret you turn left for is on the right side of the map and the turret you turn right for is on the left side of the map. That is if you're Imperial. For the Republic the left and right when you start are the same as left and right on the map. Left/right calling is fine on Republic side but hopeless on Imperial side since half of the population uses the left/right on the map and the other half the left/right depending on how you turn at the start and they're different. This is the same issue with people calling doors when defending voidstar. It drives me crazy. Sometimes they call right and its right, but sometimes they call right and its left. If we don't use east and west, people might as well be shouting "DOOR!" or "TURRET!" because there is one too many interpretation for left and right. As someone replied to my last thread, you have to accept that up on your map/mini-map is north (which should be intuitive anyway), or there really is no sense of direction in this game. Edited March 7, 2012 by Anrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aZShiftyZa Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It just comes down to error proofing. If everyone uses grass or mid, the only way you can screw up that call out is if you're blind. People will always make bad call outs using left or right and others will take longer figuring out east and west by looking at the map. I prefer grass and snow and like I said before, I know the east/west call outs too, but to make things simple, to me personally, grass and snow is a definite can't get it wrong call out. It will take new pvpers a little time playing, but honestly after about 10 wzs on that map if you can't differentiate grass from snow you're not paying enough attention to the map. I make sure that anytime I'm doing something pvp wise that I learn maps, maybe a force of habit from playing FPSs but once you're acclimated to the map those call outs should be second nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnol Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) A very good point but sometimes u are in an area running around as a melee (in your face combat), someone yells out grass or snow and u have to think were u are for a second. I always look at the mini map arrow and see which way i'm facing and turn right around in a split second. My other point is for all the noobs out there that don't know what grass & snow is yet! I don't want to think where I am for a second when you chase someone for a while and u end up running around in a corner that looks like grass or snow. Someone yells out "left/right or west/east" I start running in that directions on the mini map, I dont want to have a second to think... "where am I and which way do i go now." I don't want to lose that split second where I spin my jedi/sith in the right direction and head in that way in 1/4 of a second! A perfect example would be if your in mid, no matter which way you look or if your under mid, it looks the same! I guess I just play different! It's very interesting to know how everyone plays! Your problem only occurs when you are not playing by a node already. So yes when you are out in the middle of nowhere grass/snow does not help as much as a cardinal direction. But if you are at one of the turrets you will be able to either see the inc yourself, or know it is the other side. Unless of course you are at middle and you have a 3 cap, but at that point it doesn't really matter. Edit: for noobs all they have to do is ask and someone will explain it to them Edited March 7, 2012 by Bnol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Can we learn our left & right or I'm I just asking for 2 much cause for some stupid reason i do many ppl in reality unable to tell the difference and it's really not that hard or is it??? Left and right are subjective, a map does not have up, down, left and right. North, south, west and east exist for this very purpose. Why ask for one stupid method to be replaced with another, not to mention the fact that to some people "left" is "left from spawn" instead of "west" (which would be left on the map). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anrix Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 This may sound snide, but in all seriousness BioWare can just make the maps idiot proof by setting up discernible icons on the map and mini-map. Instead of all the icons being turrets they can make a bunny, grasshopper, chicken, and just have people call those out. Then there would be no confusion, even for people new to the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 This may sound snide, but in all seriousness BioWare can just make the maps idiot proof by setting up discernible icons on the map and mini-map. Instead of all the icons being turrets they can make a bunny, grasshopper, chicken, and just have people call those out. Then there would be no confusion, even for people new to the map. Even a single character above the icon on the map & minimap (A, B & C for the 3 turrets for example) would do it. Anything to identify which point (and unify how people call incs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reenolols Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 West Mid East how hard can this be, honestly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groncho Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 we call mid, Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 West Mid East how hard can this be, honestly A worrying amount of people don't seem to know where east or west are on a map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groncho Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 West Mid East how hard can this be, honestly i prefer Papi and Mami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migrayn Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Its funny because we use Grass and Snow because of the disorientation caused by taking the speeder. We don't use west and east because its subjective to where you are on the map. Snow is always snowy, grass is always grassy. Anyone ever been in the ship when it exploded? good times. Left and right is subjective to where you are and where yiur facing. East and west are always thr same. Unless you can somehow change the magnetic north pole while you play it does not change. The standard orientation of a map is with north to the top. Theirfor east and west stay the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) For the repubs east and west or right and left are east and west or right and left regardless of which map (main or mini) you use. The problem is with the Imp players whose mini map is reverse of their main map. So if somebody calls right / left or east / west, you first have to know which map they are using - main or mini. Then of course there is the possibility of disorientation. How many people have played Huttball only to have a team mate carry the ball to the wrong side of the court. It does happen and it happens with directional arrows pointing the way on the mini map. But in a game where people can be spun around or tossed like a wet towel across the court, disorientation does play a factor. I am a supporter of the snow / grass direction. It is simple and strait to the point. There is no guess work involved. I am also a supporter of a compass to be included with the GUI. But I don't think we will ever see that feature implemented. Edited March 7, 2012 by ForceWelder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmurie Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) It just comes down to error proofing. If everyone uses grass or mid, the only way you can screw up that call out is if you're blind. People will always make bad call outs using left or right and others will take longer figuring out east and west by looking at the map. I prefer grass and snow and like I said before, I know the east/west call outs too, but to make things simple, to me personally, grass and snow is a definite can't get it wrong call out. It will take new pvpers a little time playing, but honestly after about 10 wzs on that map if you can't differentiate grass from snow you're not paying enough attention to the map. I make sure that anytime I'm doing something pvp wise that I learn maps, maybe a force of habit from playing FPSs but once you're acclimated to the map those call outs should be second nature. FACT: Most people don't know their left/right, more or less their west/east! This is where Blizzard did well, all BG maps that i think about it (AB, WSG, EOTS, it looks different and you know where you are! I find "Civil War" can look the same in areas! Lets compare it to Gilnes, it's set in a circle where you know which way to go. If someone yells LH or mines, you know which way without thinking! They need to have a snow section and have a full grass section or change the layout of the map! I'm finding this to be a fault with all maps in Old Republic now that i think about it! WZ is a fast pace game, u don't want to think fo a split second where you are in WZ than which direction to go next. Huttbal: It can take a second or two if you just chase a couple of people around and someone throws you the ball. u than spin the screen around and see which way is purple and yellow but the thing is u might be a rotworms or frogdogs after playing so many games which u have to take note! Edited March 7, 2012 by pmurie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissentus Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Its funny because we use Grass and Snow because of the disorientation caused by taking the speeder. We don't use west and east because its subjective to where you are on the map. Snow is always snowy, grass is always grassy. Anyone ever been in the ship when it exploded? good times. How is east/west subjective? North is always north on the minimap, it takes half a second to look at it and know which way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmurie Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Please put your thoughts directly to Bioware here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3305035 Hopefully they will come up with something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buubz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 We don't use west and east because its subjective to where you are on the map. Left and right are subjective to where you are. East and West are not, they're directions on the map (which by the way never moves). The more you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YodasSleeve Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Saying grass or snow is completely dumbing it down, why complain about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanealpha Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 How are cardinal directions subjective? I don't care if you are standing on your head, east is east and west is west... Grass and snow? Jesus christ people learn how to read a map, not only will it help you in this pixel world but REAL LIFE as well. Cardinal directions are subjective when the map isn't labeled. This is particularly notable in Alderaan when the imperials leave facing south...which is contrary to what people would often identify with. Without the map being marked the turrets could just as well be north and south as they could east and west. In voidstar there's NO SUCH THING as north or south on a spacecraft in who knows what orientation relative to who knows what planatery structure. Left/Right, North/South, even Up/Down (on voidstar--although one could suggest gravity is a reasonable secondary definition for up and down regardless of the orientation of the spacecraft) is subjective. ONLY names will solve this issue. And it's such a simple and easy fix I just don't know why they didn't do it from the beginning. And no, I don't mean some obscure description reqiring hovering over the tiny turret icon on the minimap. Bioware LABEL YOUR MAPS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluo Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If you seriously have such piss poor 3D Spacial Sense that you can't figure out what Grass/Snow means you are an idiot.... there I said it.... now go away please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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