Your joking right? You gonna nerf BH??

[DIMadman]

Tracer getting nerfed would kinda suck. The arsenal set up is already kind of balanced. You have to stack tracer, rail, unload, surge, power shot.(or a mixture of the final three. With the exception of the unload, we are stuck in place. We are a turret simply put. We have no interupts, we can't really chain stun like other classes, and we have no instant cast worth a damn, missle blast kinda sucks for it's heat output. If tracer missle is nerfed, give us something instant castable like everyone else. I find it kind of ridiculous, that a pretty well pvp gear'ed shield tech speced powertech(my alt I am grinding up-lvl 42) can be hit for like 800 damage+ by a teen level sniper/op/gunslinger/sage/sorc/*** etc(was like 1200 before I spec'ed to tank spec but that is kind of limited to the agent/smug classes). Other than marauder, most classes are relatively one button. That button is instant cast. Yeah, they might throw some dots or debuffs out first so they can crit on their instant cast, but then it's pretty much instant cast, instant cast, instant cast, instant cast, instant cast, dead. Nerfing any thing in bh should come with the addition of something else. This kind of applies to pyro mercs too, doing extra heat on IM would kind of make it a worthless ability. The effectiveness of it has already been cut in half with making dots not an impediment to interacting with objectives in wz's.

 

All this nerfing and calls for nerfing does remind me of sdub, as someone said earlier, except this game is totally wowified. I wouldn't be surprised if they just made one faction and one character type. I mean, my bh definatly needs to be doing force lighting, but since I don't really want to choose between empire and republic, Bioware should just give me the Imperial Republic so i can participate in material from the original republic and empire factions. Oh, and lots of crystals. We always need crystals. Star Wars isn't star wars without crystals.

[Theology]

Seeing as Pyro is the most inconsistent DPS spec i've played, i'd be disappointed if they nerfed it.

[Mightywombat]

Seeing as Pyro is the most inconsistent DPS spec i've played, i'd be disappointed if they nerfed it.

 

dont worry its the mercs theyr after...the tracer missile does 2 much damage for a proc tool. and 2 many procs tied to it.

[Ticara]

Yeah no kidding.... And buffing one of the most powerful classes in the game. Funny!

 

 

Where did you read that?

[LastSurvivor]

dont worry its the mercs theyr after...the tracer missile does 2 much damage for a proc tool. and 2 many procs tied to it.

But then what will arsenal mercs have if they don't have a good tracer? Srsly, BH of all classes does not need a nerf. If anything, sorc/sages do.

[DinnerYeti]

But then what will arsenal mercs have if they don't have a good tracer? Srsly, BH of all classes does not need a nerf. If anything, sorc/sages do.

 

No, tracer missle spam is all you need to win in any situation. There is nothing more frustrating than 2 or 3 commandos/merc spamming it, and nothing else and wiping the floor with just about anyone, geared or not. the armor debuff, the insane amount of damage it does for such a quick cast time is ridiculous. Go in to any warzone pre-50 and all you see is BH/Commandos spamming tracer missle. At lvl 50 you get a better mix, but the merc are still spamming tracer missle...because thats all they need to do.

[VenaliterFA]

Well I think its BH specific because it doesn't say Trooper, I think its DFA or the Heat System.

 

 

Very likely it is DFA/Mortar Volley. It's been an open secret BH AoE is too strong, too early.

[Gethsemane]

I will not sit through years of nerf/unnerf/nerf/unnerf/change combat engine/nerf/unnerf/nerf/unnerf/change combat engine/nerf/unnerf/nerf/nerf/nerf again. I've got better things to do than keep relearning how to play the same class.

 

you best give up playing mmo's then, because that i'm afraid is the nature of the beast.

 

Tbh i think everyone is getting their knickers in a twist over nothing atm

[Tindomul]

Tbh i think everyone is getting their knickers in a twist over nothing atm

 

 

Yep! Better to wait and see what this nerf will entail before claiming the sky is falling and screaming UNSUB!!!!! all over the forums.

[Karbonkopi]

No, tracer missile spam is all you need to win in any situation. There is nothing more frustrating than 2 or 3 commandos/merc spamming it, and nothing else and wiping the floor with just about anyone, geared or not. the armor debuff, the insane amount of damage it does for such a quick cast time is ridiculous. Go in to any warzone pre-50 and all you see is BH/Commandos spamming tracer missile. At lvl 50 you get a better mix, but the merc are still spamming tracer missile...because thats all they need to do.

 

 

Hi, LVL 50 Assault Vanguard on low pop server, uneven faction balance, rerolled ajunta pall empire with some friends...... Rolled a BH, been a 50 tank once, decided to try the dps/heal AC. Honestly, As an Assault Vanguard, I literally laughed in the faces of Arsenal Mercs, and Ate them for dinner every time I saw one. Why? Cause half the baddies give u 3 sec of no action when u interrupt their precious missile spam, and since I was 1/22/18, my interupt was only on a 6 sec cooldown lol, not including my two stuns. But I hear people crying about it all the time, and Honestly I have lost to Merc B4 in PvP, but as my Vanguard, I never lost to one 1v1, especially in Ilum, where u could get plenty of 1v1 on the low pop servers in the am when I got off work......... But, of course I read the forums, hear all the 'nerf tm crys' and I am like wth, lets try it.....

 

Should have went PT......

 

 

 

Currently Lvl 27 BH MERC.

 

Since you specifically mentioned pre 50 wz's is where u see missile, I will tell u why....

 

At lvl 20 we finally get our precious TM, which, besides being another 1.5 sec cast just like powershot.... now can lower the targets armor by up to 20%, 4 % for each Heat signature..... now before I continue... at lvl 20, we have 11 talent spec points. We spent 6 on skills that directly mention TRACER missile, well 2 points that deal with all missiles, Power shot, our castable 1 min cc, and Unload. We spent 3 points to get 9% aim buff!, and 1 point to either..... increase our 'tech crit' by 3% if we run our 'chance to proc a small dot cylinder or heal cylinder, or lower the heat of railshot by 8. So, That 6 points to Help with TM and Powershot. Those are are only spammable skills at this lvl w/o a cooldown. Everything else has AT least a 15 second cooldown. Then we Get Super F'ing Awesome Missile' according to some people, and it gives us 4% armor reduction to the target per heat signature, 1 sig per missile... and opens up the use of Railshot on those targets with heat sigs...... b4 we got tracer... we had to run Gas Cylinder and proc the dot on it, or use railshot on a cc'd mob........ OK. Also, just in case u don't know, railshot has a 15 sec cd and requires a target to be incapacitated, burning/bleeding/or have a heat sig (pretty much any kind of dot).

 

Lvl 20... My Skill Choices are:

 

1.5 sec cast Power shot for 16 heat

1.5 sec cast Tracer Missiles for 16 heat + 4% armor reduction and Heat sig on Target

Channeled 3 sec cast Unload, not sure on heat, 15 sec cooldown

Railshot - when a target has heat sig, or dot on them or is incapacitated

I wanna say Fusion Missile has a 2-2.5 sec Cast Time not sure, But I do know it cost 33 heat and is on a 30 sec cooldown...

Death from Above - 1Min Cooldown

Explosive dart

and Rapid Shots

 

Fusion Misslie dmg pretty much blows, but I use it on people grp'd up anyway to be annoying in PVP. if I have the heat.....

 

So I can Spam... My basic Attack rapid shots..... in pvp....

Or my 1.5 sec power shot.........

Or my Tracer missile on a 1.5 sec cast that + Makes my target vurn to railshot, lowers the targets ARMOR by 4% per stack up to 20%...

While waiting for my Unload on Cooldown, Railshot on Cooldown, Fussion Missile if I wanted to use it, and my explosive dart which also has a 15 sec cooldown....

 

Honestly, at lvl 20... in heavy armor.... U ar looking at tops...2k armor maybe..... U do realize, that even if I hit u with 5 tracer missiles..... All it does it reduce ur 'debuffed armor rating' by 400 armor. Every at 50, it only comes out to 1,600 less armor on someone with 8k armor....... not a huge diff dmg wise........

 

 

So at lvl 20, do i spam power shot... which gives no bonuses at all, or do I spam Tracer missle which opens u up to rail shot, puts a debuff on u, and is the same cast time? I'll let u pick

 

It only gets worse from here. By lvl 22, I now have a talent that gives me 100% chance to gain 2% dmg reduction, Stacking up to 5 times, each time I use tracer or powershot.....last 15seconds...... at lvl 25, I get a skill that adds an additional heat sig to tracer. So now I only need 3 to hit u for max debuff, but still need 5 for max defensive buff. Buy 31 I have gotten skills that finally Buff a skill besides tracer... my unload, on a 15 sec cooldown... yeah!; But at LVL 30, I got Tracer Lock! Which increases the dmg of railshot by 6% for each Heat Signature.... so again, I need to fire off 3 tracers to get the max bonus from this.

 

Finally, by lvl 37.......my powershot... AND U GUESSED IT TRACER MISSILES, have a 30% chance to reset the cooldown on my Unload (15sec cooldown, not more than once every 6 seconds)...........Finally at 40 I get Heatseeker, A new attack........ on a 15 sec cooldown... but wouldn't u know it... It gets a 5% dmg buff for each Heat Signature on a Target..... and we apply those with wut skill.... oh, Tracer Missile.............

 

Now at 50, I have more Specialization options open to me.... I can Be Arsenal (tracer Missiles Spec with 10 points spent in other tress), a Hybrid with Healer + Arsenal...... A hybrid with Arsenal and Pyro..... or Full Pyro.

 

 

Tank Ac's get more bang for their points both as full Pyro/Assault, and Hybrids of those specs, Than Commando/Mercs do and by far way more mobility.

 

So hopefully.... now u understand why it seems like u see so many pre-50 BH's Spamming tracer 2-3 times at the very least in WZ....... The whole tree is based and designed around it, And Pyro/Assault isn't as effective as a Commando/Merc as it is for Tank Ac's and they don't gain hardle any mobility from it.

 

Anyway, I don't overly spam tracer, if anything I try to get 2 off, for my 4 stacks, and run through my rotation of things with cooldowns depending on the situation. As Arsenal Spec Merc, Then only reason not to use Tracer missile pre- lvl 33 is... U have 5 stacks on yer target, U get interrupted and switch to power shot or..... explosive dart, fusion missile, dfa or railshot can be used. After 37, U can Add in a Barrage proc, which is the free 'unload' chance to proc once every 6 seconds.... after 40 u can add Heatseeker on a 15 sec cooldown. It is the way the tree is designed.

 

It's true, I have seen people just use tracer, get interrupted, and stand there till its back up, even at 50... but if the cooldowns are up, and my debuff is stacked at least twice on a target, I use every ability I have available to the greatest benefit I can in pre 50 pvp. Sorry U think all Commandos and Mercs do is Spam 1 Button.

 

Aside from all that, We are super squishy 1 on 1 in pvp, and honestly, After fighting them on my Assault Vanguard, and now Playing one, I don't see why people are crying nerf........

 

- Edited for accuracy

Edited March 7, 2012 by Karbonkopi

[Turn-XGundam]

Haha - operative sends greetings. They just leaving the sorc for last. :D:D Hopefully it'll balance out one day.

 

by nerfing us they are completly ruining range classes.

op/scoundrel are currently avg, gunslingers/sniper are below avg. that leaves with trooper/bh which will get nerfed. meaning melee will just faceroll us, i am waiting for ranked warzone.

[Humankeg]

Can possibly be an internal cool down for RS procs. If they do that though, they need to increase the aount of heat vented for pyro by a lot, as an unlucky string of RS procs will quickly over heat a pyro.

 

I also see adding a cd to TM realistic, though they would need to make sure the merc has other quality abilities to use (I do not know how mercs play other than tm).

[jeditempest]

Shieldtech's heat blast ability (level 40 talent) vents 8 heat a lot less than a much lower tier selection passive, on a 15 sec cd and essentially takes another ability out of our rotation when your'e talking about all out aoe.

 

A dummy talent, right at the top? I can see more of a use at level cap with ops and such, but this fix basically came up because of pvp. Despite that, the passives I gain from lower tier selection are tremendous with the top end gear, and it certainly does make up for it overall.

 

The oldest disparity in any mmo is the end game balance, versus leveling balance. If you use the same class and skills in both, how does that ever iron out? This change also makes tm/gr less desirable in your priority as a arsenal/gunnery dps. Which is a good thing, both of these specific builds are OP in pvp.

[Turino]

Those people moaning about tracer spam don't understand the (advanced) class. Arsenal spec Merc tree is completely based around Tracer Missile and it's buffs/debuffs. It's the base of all Arsenal spec Mercs abilities. So ofc they are going to fire it as much as possible.

 

If you interpret this as it being a "one button career" then fine, just don't roll one. But those players who play the class, and actually know what they're talking about, know that a nerf to Tracer Missile is not only not needed but makes the (advanced) class very undesirable.

 

Arsenal spec Mercs already have very little defence against melee classes. Infact, they are extremely vulnerable. No interrupt, limited CC, limited insta-cast abilities. To nerf their only real asset is a very scarey thought.

 

I just hope this isn't a case of Bioware listening to the prepubescent forum whiners.

 

I've been really excited about 1.2 but this announcement is a real concern.

[Karbonkopi]

Can possibly be an internal cool down for RS procs. If they do that though, they need to increase the aount of heat vented for pyro by a lot, as an unlucky string of RS procs will quickly over heat a pyro.

 

I also see adding a cd to TM realistic, though they would need to make sure the merc has other quality abilities to use (I do not know how mercs play other than tm).

 

If I had to guess about the 'nerf' as we are calling it from the vague article everyone is referring to, it will have to deal with the heat vrs ammo difference, and when dmg happens for dfa.

 

 

 

 

I guess I kind of tired of hearing how TM is OP. As Assault Vanguard, I could wipe the floor with Arsenal Mercs, unless they were deep healing tree hybrids, then it was actually a fight.... but most aren't, and in 1 vrs 1 situations, Mercs/Commando Pure Gunnery/ Arsenal Spec (31point talent) Are the squishiest AC's on the battlefield. They have a 12 second 25%dmg reduction shield, a 2 Second on demand snare connected to an ability with a 15second cooldown (unless they are standing still 'casting' 1.5sec TM's or PS to get the Unload barrage, 10% dmg reduction which stacks at 2% a stack off 'castable abilities, no interrupt, 1 castable cc - which either fills a resolve bar or over fills it which is worse, an instant cc that causes 800 resolve.... so to last the full 4 seconds, the target must basically have no resolve on a 1min cool down, and 2 knock backs if talented (resolve negets knocback effects).... which in all honesty are most useful in huttball..... yer rocket punch knockback/Jetpack will never save u as a merc/commando unless u are using it to interrupt a cast of a commando to interupt grav round or a heal cast since both AC's have the same cc options, knock a sniper/gunslinger without hunker down/entrench buff out of cover, use it in world pvp to knock someone off a cliff, or use it in huttball or voidtsar to insta gibb people on bridges, fitpits, and if using it anywhere else, rocket punch doesn't knock people back further than 4-6 meters.... pretty much still in melee range, and though jet boost is a tad further, every melee but ops/scoundrel have 'leap/sprint/pull' closers to be right back on u. Unless u put 11 points in bodyguard for the uninterruptable shield - and while u are doing that, might as well put 13 point, get another heal (aoe!), and 50% chance to proc a 5% bonus to healing because u just sacrificed yer Heatseeker missile and 2 cooldown reductions for two of yer abilities and run in Combat Support Cell instead of HVC; Merc/Comm are the squishiest Dps AC's out there 1 vrs 1, hands down.

 

People argue sniper/gunslinger is super squishy... but i guess they haven't met a dirty fighting/lethality sniper who had their cooldowns up; otherwise they would know, that with cast and forget orbital strike, Hunker down/ entrench 20 seconds of U can't stop me no matter wut u do immunity on a 60 sec cooldown, a dmg reduction bubble, a more effective knockback, cover (if they ever fix it in pvp snipers/gunslinger will destroy people 1 on 1), and their ability to snare and remove snares..... They are not as squishy as people really believe. IF cover wasn't bugged in warzones and some open world pvp places, the cover dmg bonus apllied to 'Cover in place and included a slight melee dmg reduction. Snipers/Gunslingers w/cooldowns in dirtyfighting/lethality would pretty much be the kings of 1v1 while in cover. Plus in their pvp tree, much like pyro, almost all of their dmg is unmitigated by armor.

 

Snipers/Gunslingers aren't squishy.... unless u are their other AC, who seems to eat them..... their cover mechanic is bugged/flawed, and non lethality/dirty fighting have to deal with things most AC's dont at all..... Primarily most of their hard hitting skills are 'Ranged Attacks, instead of Tech, kinetic and what not, so they can be dodged, deflected, absorbed by tanks, etc. If their mechanic had a slight tweak to what was a tech/ranged attack, and the cover system actually worked worth a damn... then Sniper/Gunslinger would be one of the most deadly AC's to face in PVP 1v1.

 

-Edited for accuracy

Edited March 7, 2012 by Karbonkopi

[jeditempest]

Those people moaning about tracer spam don't understand the (advanced) class. Arsenal spec Merc tree is completely based around Tracer Missile and it's buffs/debuffs. It's the base of all Arsenal spec Mercs abilities. So ofc they are going to fire it as much as possible.

 

If you interpret this as it being a "one button career" then fine, just don't roll one. But those players who play the class, and actually know what they're talking about, know that a nerf to Tracer Missile is not only not needed but makes the (advanced) class very undesirable.

 

How can you explain away the fact TM is at least double in priority than any other ability you have in any given situation. You live life 1.5 seconds to the next.

 

Also you have two interrupts, if you get that knockback talent for rocket punch. PT only has one interrupt more, assuming you're tank spec with grapple and charge. If you go dps as PT you only get the one, quell which is melee range only.

 

I'm not even going there Karbonkopi, that was waaay tl;dr.

[Ashenwind]

As it is stated as a BH nerf not a BH and Trooper nerf. I think they will change the heat system to mirror the ammo system a bit more and put it on a 12 point scale, as right now abilities that are 16 heat are mirrored at 2 ammo. 2 ammo six times is all 12 ammo, while 16 heat 6 times is only 96 heat, a small but measurable difference for classes that recharge slower the more strained their resources are.

 

Though personally I wouldnt mind seeing some restructuring to make healer/dps hybrids less viable, and possibly a 4 second cooldown on Tracer missle/grav round to make it more in line with sunder.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Ashenwind

[Devoter]

How can you explain away the fact TM is at least double in priority than any other ability you have in any given situation. You live life 1.5 seconds to the next.

 

Also you have two interrupts, if you get that knockback talent for rocket punch. PT only has one interrupt more, assuming you're tank spec with grapple and charge. If you go dps as PT you only get the one, quell which is melee range only.

 

I'm not even going there Karbonkopi, that was waaay tl;dr.

 

FOR THE 43290482302 TIME IN THESE FORUMS: KNOCKBACKS ARE NOT INTERRUPTS

I'm sick and tired reading that same **** over and over again here.

 

Really, is is THAT hard to understand? If you managed to find your ways to the forums, your have the right IQ to understand that. It is really simple!

 

There is a whole game aside PvP, and there are NPC immun to knochbacks, CCs and so on but not to pure interrupts.

And knockbacks are melee abilities while the merc is a range class...

 

Good lord, whats so *********** complicated to understand about these very easy gameplay mechanics?

Edited March 7, 2012 by Devoter

[KKaae]

FOR THE 43290482302 TIME IN THESE FORUMS: KNOCKBACKS ARE NOT INTERRUPTS

I'm sick and tired reading that same **** over and over again here.

 

Really, is is THAT hard to understand? If you managed to find your ways to the forums, your have the right IQ to understand that. It is really simple!

 

There is a whole game aside PvP, and there are NPC immun to knochbacks, CCs and so on but not to pure interrupts.

And knockbacks are melee abilities while the merc is a range class...

 

Good lord, whats so *********** complicated to understand about these very easy gameplay mechanics?

 

lol, your IQ must tell you that.

 

a) it interrupts the cast in progress. (unless you are fighting bosses immune to cc)

b) it doesnt matter, so why defend it so aggressively?

 

technically, the stun would count as well that the rocketpunch and the jet boost, if you are counting them as interrupts, and perhaps an instant concussion missile. that's 4 "interrupts!!!"

Edited March 7, 2012 by KKaae

[oldshatterhand]

An interrupt prevents the casting of the interrupted skill for 4 seconds. Knockbacks don't do that so THEY ARE NOT INTERRUPTS.

 

MERCENARY HAS NO INTERRUPT

Edited March 7, 2012 by oldshatterhand

[KKaae]

mercenary also has no combat res

 

deal with it

Edited March 7, 2012 by KKaae

[Ashenwind]

FOR THE 43290482302 TIME IN THESE FORUMS: KNOCKBACKS ARE NOT INTERRUPTS

I'm sick and tired reading that same **** over and over again here.

 

Really, is is THAT hard to understand? If you managed to find your ways to the forums, your have the right IQ to understand that. It is really simple!

 

There is a whole game aside PvP, and there are NPC immun to knochbacks, CCs and so on but not to pure interrupts.

And knockbacks are melee abilities while the merc is a range class...

 

Good lord, whats so *********** complicated to understand about these very easy gameplay mechanics?

 

Just a quick question what range do you think interrupts are?

 

They are melee or at most an amazing 10m. So while yes Knockback is not an "Interrupt" It does interrupt casting at roughly the same range most of the time.

 

Your ranged dps in heavy armor that can heal, suck it up.

[Ticara]

Your ranged dps in heavy armor that can heal, suck it up.

 

 

That has no escape, only one combat CC, no interrupts and mediocre healing (or extremely terrible healing when not specced Bodyguard), as well as near to no instant DMG abilities. You also missed an apostrophe.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Ticara

[KKaae]

Your ranged dps in heavy armor that can heal, suck it up.

 

you are on the money with that, but do remember that you are not really able to heal yourself in a fight.

 

if you are Bodyguard (heal spec) obv not a problem.

if Arsenal (tm,tm,tm,tm,tm,tm,tm) you probably wont have uninterruptable heals, AND tracer Missiles.

 

besides, with one person hitting me as non-heal-spec, I am unable to keep myself up (which is completely fine, just goes against your argument)

 

I can heal other players a little bit before getting overheated, because i dont have heat reduction on heals, and only one heat dump mechanism.

[XOrionX]

No, tracer missle spam is all you need to win in any situation. There is nothing more frustrating than 2 or 3 commandos/merc spamming it, and nothing else and wiping the floor with just about anyone, geared or not. the armor debuff, the insane amount of damage it does for such a quick cast time is ridiculous. Go in to any warzone pre-50 and all you see is BH/Commandos spamming tracer missle. At lvl 50 you get a better mix, but the merc are still spamming tracer missle...because thats all they need to do.

 

?????

 

You are kidding right?

 

You can only spam so many before you are overheated and useless and then have to rely on your blasters 'auto attack.'

 

It's a 1.5 second cast where you CAN'T move and can be interrupted. If tracer gets jacked, then they will be useless and all Mercs will have to roll bodyguard. Right now Pyro spec merc is ridiculously broke.

Edited March 7, 2012 by XOrionX