BH/Trooper nerf in 1.2

[AetherMcLoud]

The only thing that makes Sorcs/Sages "too good" (they aren't really OP) is their hybrid spec that gives them a root on the knockback and an instant whirlwind. They probably will fix this and that's what it is, a fix, not really a nerf.

[Machtkatze]

If it specifically says "nerf to BH" and not "nerf to merc", shouldn't it be a nerf to an ability of the base class, ruling out tracer missile?

[Mephane]

If it specifically says "nerf to BH" and not "nerf to merc", shouldn't it be a nerf to an ability of the base class, ruling out tracer missile?

 

It's probably that they just used a generic wording to give them room to decide what to actually do - maybe Bioware doesn't even know for sure what exactly to nerf...

[Superastro]

Yes, like warriors need more abilities on the bars... >

I am happy with all the 90329 skills bloating my UI already.

 

Marauder here.

[DoctorHorse]

Pretty stupid, just because Tracer Missile/Grav Round does too much damage, doesn't mean overall BH/Trooper damage is good. Sniper/Gunslinger, Sorc/Sage and Marauder/Sentinel damage is higher.

 

So if they nerfed TM/GR they'd have to buff other abilities of BH/Trooper to make the class less of a one button spammer but not reduce the overall damage.

 

Or they're indeed listening to the PvP crybabies who go all emo when they see a BH/Trooper spam TM/GR on them (even if it kills them slower than other classes...) and make a nice kneejerk nerf to the class, which is what Blizzard usually did with WoW classes. And it sucked having your class changed every single patch because of PvP balance.

 

I expect BW to do better than that.

Edited March 6, 2012 by DoctorHorse

[Toogeloo]

Saw this in my email from someone who has been diligently following the Summit:

 

Operations and Flashpoints:

New Operation: Explosive Conflict. First "Tier 2" Raid.

Orange gear will become more viable as end-game gear in the 1.2 update.

New Flashpoint: Lost Island. Continues where Kaon Under Siege left off.

New Tier of PVE gear. More "Sensible" stats. Less Accuracy, etc.

Greater difference between PVE and PVP gear. Using PVP gear in PVE will be

less viable.

Combat Log: Will log out to a file on the computer for parsing outside of

the game.

Raids will move more heavily to requiring 2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 DPS.

Schematics from reverse engineering Operation gear.

More Open World Bosses.

 

PVP:

New Tier of PVP gear: "War-Hero" earned through Ranked Warzones.

New Warzone: Control 3 objectives, but actually requires holding 2 to

score damage.

Ranked Warzones. ELO system, solo and group. This will be "Pre-Season" so

ratings can be sorted out.

New PVP Warzone Dailies.

18 new Medals added into Warzones, including some for winning fast to

discourage dragging it out.

Medal rewards capped at 4 medals to prevent farming.

Vote to Kick system added to Warzones.

Expertise will hit DR much later, and become a bigger focus for gear in

PVP.

New entry level PVP set added for fresh 50s.

"Possible" for 1.2: Existing Warzones made same faction. Might not be

until 1.3 though.

8 person Queues for Warzones.

Groups will not be broken for Warzones, so you don't have to reform.

Ilum PVP not up to their requirements. It will be phased out until they

can get it working properly.

Match-Making Improvements including filling out current Warzones.

 

Legacy:

Massively customizable "Family Tree" among your own characters.

Reach level 50 with a species to unlock for other classes.

Complete Chapter 2 with a class to unlock a class specific emote and apply

that to buffs.

Complete Chapter 3 and unlock Heroic Abilities ( Such as Agents Orbital

Bombardment )

Complete all missions for companion type ( Such as Ranged Tank ) and

unlock shorter cooldown Heroic, Stat and Presence boost.

Alignment Abilities for Dark, Light and Grey.

Social Rank unlocks including Dancing with Companions and other Emotes.

Cooldown Reduction for Fleet Pass and Quick Travel.

Short duration sprints from Jetpacks and Rocket Boots.

Sprint moved to level 1.

Training dummies on Ships, including Operation and Warzone versions.

Repair Astromech will repair items, buy items, sell upgrades for Ship

Droids including a "Voice Restraining-Bolt"

Mailboxes and GTN access on Ships.

Legacy Weapons and Armor.

New Item Type: Bount-to-Legacy. Transferable among alts.

Boosting PVP experience, Lowering level for Speeder License.

Legacy Buffs will apply to entire Group.

 

Economy and Crew Skills:

Crafting Mods for Ship Droids.

Endgame Mods from Reverse Engineering.

Every Crew-Skill will get an Endgame Benefit.

Crafted Augments.

Speeder Costs going up, Training Costs down.

Cyertech Speeders becoming Bind-on-Equip.

Shorter cooldown on Cybertech Grenades.

Artifice receiving all new Color Crystals.

Biochem items will no longer require Biochem skill. Assuming same for

Cybertech Grenades.

New Resource Nodes.

Single-Use Missions cannot be failed.

 

Guild Features:

Guild Banks with up to 7 tabs. Detailed control over it, including

back-logs.

Repair directly from the Guild Bank.

Respec from Guild Bank.

Both of those take from Guild Funds. Detailed ledger shows who spent how

much on those.

 

User Interface:

"Edit Mode" allows for very large amount of customization. Similar to

LOTROs system.

All components Scalable.

Target of Target added.

Party and Raid Targets added.

More than 2 windows open at 1 time.

Companion Hot-Bar now its own separate window. Won't cover your own

hotbars.

Save UI as an XML.

GTN UI "80% less stupid" including less mandatory fields.

 

...And The Rest:

New Dailies on Corellia.

Color Matching is back, far more advanced including toggleable per piece.

Color Matching won't just match the color, but actually change the texture

to look better with the chest.

Very High Resolution texture for Character Models.

Normal Mode Operations renamed to Story Mode.

[EthanThristam]

I would definitely love to see your evidence on Sniper/Gunslinger damage being higher than Mercenary/Commando in PvP. But it doesn't exist. In PvE its all speculation without logs but I still believe that Mercenary/Commando probably slightly edges it out.

 

On my 50 Gunslinger alt we struggle to put out over 300k damage in a warzone in a class that has little survivability. And on the lucky matches where I don't die, its still a challenge. On a Commando I regularly see them exceed and indeed go far beyond that with far less effort.

 

Commandos rely more on special damage for single target DPS, most Slinger specs rely on white normal damage for their single target burst. The spec that doesn't relies on easily cleansable DoTs. I'll grant that you all have the same problem with Assault/Pyro, but come on, we all know that most people aren't speccing that as Mercs/Commandos. What does this amount too? You all have less difficulty taking out the beefier players.

 

I'm not calling for a nerf, I'd rather upgrade both Commando/Mercenary and Gunslinger/Sniper, but remove the crutch of no cooldown Grav Round/Tracer Missile that the unskilled players use. In return, upgrade something else to use as 'filler' between it that synergizes with the Gunnery/Arsenal talents. Like charged rounds, or power shot.

[Xioshen]

I have a strange feeling bios about to screw up BH and loose more players in an attempt to keep some. Bets anyone? lol. I like my BH as is... but it looks like I better dust off my assassin lol.

[-Fritz-]

I have a strange feeling bios about to screw up BH and loose more players in an attempt to keep some. Bets anyone? lol. I like my BH as is... but it looks like I better dust off my assassin lol.

 

 

the reality is if you play a mmo game you should expect your class to get changed at some point.

 

if thats going to drive you to play another character then you should have alts ready.

 

if thats going to drive you into fits of rage you should probably not play mmo games.

 

 

 

i understand change is a scary thing, especially when you have had bad past experiences, but if you are going to toss in the towel on the first hint of your class getting nerfed... mmo games are probably not for you.

 

whoever moves to the top of the pile after the nerf dust settles will just be the new target for the next patches balancing act.

 

it will never end.

[Xioshen]

Lol... what are you talking about? Might as well stay on topic. Will work better then some.. logic on an obviously misunderstood comment.

[EthanThristam]

He was on topic.

 

There's never been an MMO where a class hasn't been nerfed in some way at some point, its just some receive greater nerfs than others.

 

Good players adjust and still play well. Bad ones migrate to other classes after inevitable rage.

 

Whether the change is positive or negative, all classes in an MMO will experience it. The 'OMG we'll all quit if you nerf XYZ class ability' is not a persuasive argument to developers.

[GreenSeven]

Its just more nerfs because someone cried in pvp. The cycle of life in an mmo.

[SWPhoenix]

My main is a 40 Arsenal Merc, and reading through this thread I see that a few people think spamming TM is an issue. I spam TM too.

 

Cause nearly a third of the Arsenal tree is set up to make PS and TM more viable and helpful, and then there's the added bonus of Terminal Velocity (extra heat venting), Light Em Up (additional sunder armor), and Target Lock that only apply to TM.

 

Combined with a 25 heat cost to begin with, this particular spammed ability seems to read "used as intended".

 

I mean, really, what exactly do you expect an Arsenal Merc to do? Spam Rapid Shots? Like it or not, TM is an Arsenal Merc's main attack. And with the talents, it does so much more. Nerfing TM is simply going to make for spammers with lower dmg outputs, and while good, it's not breaking the bank compared to some other DPS'ers out there.

[Onager]

WTH would they just nerf one side of the mirror? How would that make sense?

 

they are probably adjusting the heat mechanics.

 

Currently commandos have less ammo then BH have heat.

 

That, and the range and timing discrepancy between Death from Above and Mortar Volley.

[Kushtaka]

Yes, because using a skill that is optimal and is the mainstay of a spec is "unskilled"...that was for all the lobotomy patients that feel Commandos and Mercs should not use Grav/Tracer because it's "unskilled"...ok, lets put all all skills, even melee skills on a 15 second cooldown and make all skills have a cast timer of about 2 seconds, yes, all melee skills as well, and for the poor, under-serviced melee, lets make your skill have have a 1 meter requirement, since only unskilled melee need 4 meters or w/e you have. See how foolish that sounded? Thats how dumb people sound that just think Commandos and Mercs have SO MUCH MORE AWESOME STUFF THAT THEY JUST USE GRAV/TRACER CUZ THEYRE BAD, I MEAN, HAMMER SHOT IS SO POWERFUL.

 

The only way Grav/Tracer could even be remotely considered OP is if it was instant cast or could be cast while moving, etc. Until you feel the sting of being interrupted while casting your main attack again and again, you have no clue.

 

Either way, Vanguards/Powertechs DPS being too high has already been addressed, I see those 2 being nerfed long before Mercs/Commandos and they are BH/Troopers afterall.

[bigbramble]

Having played a Merc to 50 and a Sorc to 50, I would say that to level the BH is powerful, but as I got to the very late levels it really felt quite low dps next to the sorc although it does have better survivability. In pvp tracer missile merc is really quite bad unless no one notices you but as a healer now I think its a good class.

[bigbramble]

I should also add that leveling as arsenal I was really quite bored of tracer missile spam by level 50.

[Karbonkopi]

I should also add that leveling as arsenal I was really quite bored of tracer missile spam by level 50.

 

I lvl'd an Assault Vanguard to 50, begin as shield tech with Jorgan, Switched to assault for pvp post 30 and never looked back....... Just recently rerolled on Ajunta Pall, since i was on low pop server, with 70% imp, 30 repub, And decided to try the other AC's Mirror.....

 

Lvl 27, almost 28, and already tired of watching Tracer.... Honestly I wish the animation for it was the same as our first missile... Missile blast...... 1> less annoying and more realistic (kinda... endless supply of missiles and al) 2> would be much less noticable in pvp much like our Commando counter parts ( u don't know a commando is casting grav until a> it hits u and u get the animation for it, or b> u are watching his cast bar, and would have probably recieved a lot less QQ as a result.

 

At 50, I play to either try Pyro/bodyguard hybrid after I get full eliminator... not very hopefully about this; since the TANK Ac's version of Pyro is far superior to that of the Commando/Merc point for point, and the Merc version doesn't get the on demand snare, dot, or the 60% armor reduction + 6% fire crit and 3% tech crit with just putting 6 points first two tier talents in either bodyguard or arsenal trees like the Tank Ac's do if they go the full 31 points.

 

Or more likely, a bodyguard/Arsenal hybrid who still uses tracer missiles for debuff/dmg reduction, increased crit/dmg while actually using the proper cylinder (combat support), with more utility, survivability, and overall usefulness in grp settings.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Karbonkopi

[Denarok]

Whatever this nerf is, I hope it has nothing to do because of PVP.

 

That will force me out of this game if there are nerfs because of PVP,

 

Since I play on a PVE server and have zero interest in it.

[Technohic]

Whatever this nerf is, I hope it has nothing to do because of PVP.

 

That will force me out of this game if there are nerfs because of PVP,

 

Since I play on a PVE server and have zero interest in it.

 

Well; if it is any hint to you, most people don't whine about what a class can do in PvE, so the math there should tell you something.

 

I will say though; that it doesn't matter what MMO you play. If there is PvP (and any MMO that plans to last, there will be) things will get nerfed. This game at least tries to give you more utilities that are used in PvE you wouldn't use in PvP as to not have them touch; albeit they are small things like heroic moments and the 0 action high damage attack on incapacitated targets.

[Mater_energy]

SR replied to a tweet about this

 

https://twitter.com/#!/Rockjaw/status/177436594037465090

 

Stephen Reid ‏ @Rockjaw

@demonicking08 We're not entirely sure why IGN reported on that; BH is not getting 'singled out' for changes in 1.2.

 

Looks like IGN is trolling again.

[reaperkeepet]

This BETTER match with the other classes. My BH will have no other way to survive if this is nerfed. :mad:

[JLapp]

Well; if it is any hint to you, most people don't whine about what a class can do in PvE, so the math there should tell you something.

 

lol....good one.

[Denarok]

Well; if it is any hint to you, most people don't whine about what a class can do in PvE, so the math there should tell you something.

 

I will say though; that it doesn't matter what MMO you play. If there is PvP (and any MMO that plans to last, there will be) things will get nerfed. This game at least tries to give you more utilities that are used in PvE you wouldn't use in PvP as to not have them touch; albeit they are small things like heroic moments and the 0 action high damage attack on incapacitated targets.

 

 

Yeah but most MMO that I have played in the past did not make changes to classes based on PVP, or if they did it only was affected while actually playing PVP.

 

I never played WoW so no clue how they do it.

 

I know I have played some games where changes made for PVP, were only when in PVP and then when doing PVE it was back to normal, like certain abilities/spells had different effects in PVP.

 

Like I said I hardly play PVP and any MMORPG that makes it primary is just not for me. If I want to PVP I will play a FPS like BF3 or something of that nature.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Denarok

[Darne]

Yes, like warriors need more abilities on the bars... >

I am happy with all the 90329 skills bloating my UI already.

 

Marauder here.

 

I know the thread title is about the BH "nerf" but more abilities to arguably the class with the most bloated ability bar as it is seems like a bad idea....

 

I hope they mean "new" abilities in the sense that they are combining some.

 

But now on topic, I have two alts at lvl~25. A trooper and a BH. The BH over heats so much less than my trooper runs out of ammo. The delay in my troopers mortar is so annoying compared to the crisp death from above. Everything about these two mirror classes screams BH plays as intended while trooper was just not polished.

 

Things like that make me wonder if they were really surprised there were faction imbalances.