Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Captain_Zone]

Dorne might have issues. There isn't really any canon on how various factions or organizations deal with issues like this. Everyone seems pretty into equality in terms of everything except race, with fantastic racism being widespread.

 

But still, I could see the empire as having really strong do your duty, raise a family, type attitudes for the common person. Especially with that historical near-genocide and having to build up the numbers to come back from it thing.

 

And she's so very proper.

 

Same thing for some other strongly "imperial" characters, I think. So probably Quinn.

 

Sith on the other hand, I have trouble seeing them having any difficulty at all with just about any kind of sexual practice. Give in to your passions and all that. Yeah, they're into strong lines of force users, but they seem less interested in achieving that through strong, traditional family values and more interested in overt eugenics.

 

Kira just seems so infatuated with the Jedi Knight regardless of the Knight's gender...

 

Most characters I've got no idea, though. Because the issue basically never comes up, its hard to get an idea how any given person would feel about it...

 

The easiest implication to read from that is that the issue never comes up because it's not an issue and no one cares, but the argument that there must be people who are accepting of homosexual relations in the galaxy because it's so vast and varied runs the other way... it's so vast and varied, every prejudice imaginable must exist somewhere.

 

I mean, there are probably planets where they burn left-handed people at the stake. And planets where only the exalted lefties are permitted to hold government office.

 

Now, Kaliyo would be down for just about anything, I'm guessing.

 

Same with DS Jaesa. I've watched the vids on youtube of DS Jaesa gettin' her freak on with the SW.

 

Kira would be good to go after a little nudging and maybe a shot of Corellian brandy.

 

I agree that Dorne would be a bit hesitant, and probably more than a little surprised.

 

Ashara would be into it, I'm guessing. She's only 20, and probably wants to at least experiment since she doesn't have the Jedi looking over her shoulder constantly anymore.

 

Akaavi would definitely be down for it! She's got the whole lesbian vibe going on already.

 

Nadia, probably not so much. VERY conservative upbringing, there.

 

Raina? Probably QUITE a bit easier than Dorne. Yes, she's Imperial, but she's also an Intelligence agent. She would probably have to do it sometime in her career, and would probably enjoy herself immensely.

 

Risha and Vette? Maybe after a few dozen shots/beers. Otherwise, I believe they'd have to be VERY in love with the female Smuggler/Warrior to do anything physical.

 

As for the prejudice when it comes to sexuality, it would be unrealistic to think that it doesn't exist in Star Wars. Human nature is to condemn what we fear or don't understand. That's the nature of anything having to do with what some perceive to be "aberrant" behavior. Sad but true.

 

Honestly though, I don't think it would impact the story much. Well, except for maybe hitting on Darth Lachris as a female. That could be interesting. First time I encountered her, I let her kill the Governor. She looked at me as I stood there, and said "Watch and enjoy" in a very sultry tone. That was interesting to say the least.

[amnie]

Dorne might have issues. There isn't really any canon on how various factions or organizations deal with issues like this. Everyone seems pretty into equality in terms of everything except race, with fantastic racism being widespread.

 

But still, I could see the empire as having really strong do your duty, raise a family, type attitudes for the common person. Especially with that historical near-genocide and having to build up the numbers to come back from it thing.

 

And she's so very proper.

 

Same thing for some other strongly "imperial" characters, I think. So probably Quinn.

 

Sith on the other hand, I have trouble seeing them having any difficulty at all with just about any kind of sexual practice. Give in to your passions and all that. Yeah, they're into strong lines of force users, but they seem less interested in achieving that through strong, traditional family values and more interested in overt eugenics.

 

Kira just seems so infatuated with the Jedi Knight regardless of the Knight's gender...

 

Most characters I've got no idea, though. Because the issue basically never comes up, its hard to get an idea how any given person would feel about it...

 

The easiest implication to read from that is that the issue never comes up because it's not an issue and no one cares, but the argument that there must be people who are accepting of homosexual relations in the galaxy because it's so vast and varied runs the other way... it's so vast and varied, every prejudice imaginable must exist somewhere.

 

I mean, there are probably planets where they burn left-handed people at the stake. And planets where only the exalted lefties are permitted to hold government office.

 

 

the question is, though, will bioware actually aknowledge it?

 

I mean... it's common understanding on my part of the general EU-lore (and up to a point in the movies, I guess) that cyborgs are not exactly everyone's friends and lots of people are at least 'suspicious' about them... I do even remember a quest where a lady gives my smuggler a quest that is all about 'ugh kill those nasty cyborgs'...

 

the thing is: my smuggler .is. a cyborg. it's not getting aknowledged. and this is something obvious, unlike a character's sexuality (nobody outside my ship will know whom I flirt with or even marry apart from the people on my ship if I don't publically claim it)

 

to be honest, I kinda am on the fence about whether or not I'd want this to actually be 'an issue' to some.

 

y'know, I know 'real life issues' shouldn't be discussed here, but maybe a teeny tiny bit is ok and the mods look the other way

 

the thing is, we mentioned a couple of times how showing 'hey this MMO does it - totally offical and all - it's ok to be gay' ... buuuuut obviously, if we use a game to teach us something about the society we live in, then it also needs to point out the negative side.

 

however, in a better society it would be a non-issue and nobody would care.

 

then again, obviously neither the Republic nor the Sith Empire are anywhere near a better society than the one we all live in (depending on which country we are from in real life )

[Kioma]

Well, this is all personal opinion of course, but I don't think it's about teaching players anything. I don't think it's about sending a message that it's okay - or not okay - to be anything, really. If it was some huge moral lesson then the first few Sith Inquisitor missions aren't sending a great message.

 

I think it's simply about enabling players to play the game the way they want to play it, that's all. In that case then unless there's a compelling reason to introduce particularly homophobic NPCs into the mix I don't think they'll bother. The majority of the people that the players meet probably have more important things on their minds, and there may very well be no real reason the matter would even come up in conversation - except perhaps in situations like

that stuff involving the Imperial Agent getting married to that Voss person.

 

 

But seriously. It's a big hoo-hah on this side of the fence with people making huge socio-political statements here and there and obsessing over minutiae, but if the people on the developer's side of the fence are taking a simpler view - one that is more about letting people play heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual relationship content as they see fit - then perhaps all these discussions about moral implications are a bit unnecessary?

 

Of course we won't know until the devs communicate with us a bit more and tell us what angle they're approaching it from, so it's all supposition.

[Galathor_Shan]

I just had a cutscene on a Alderaan with a character who it was very clear to me that if I'd been a female character I would have had flirt options. It was the first character in my experience as a SI that I would have enjoyed having the options of flirting with. I googled it and lo and behold, I was right.

 

I'm kind of just letting the fact that there are no options in the game pass from fazing me, I'm just gonna play my story out and let that be that. Beyond story content I don't know what appeal the game will have to me anyway.

 

It's a shame we couldn't get any kind of clarification by now.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Galathor_Shan

[MusedMoose]

Kira would be good to go after a little nudging and maybe a shot of Corellian brandy.

I dunno; that seems a bit more like what Kira would think about the JK. Like Tamaranis said, Kira just seems so infatuated with the JK, probably because she's written as a romanceable character and some of that shows regardless of the JK's gender.

 

Ashara would be into it, I'm guessing. She's only 20, and probably wants to at least experiment since she doesn't have the Jedi looking over her shoulder constantly anymore.

...definitely looking forward to getting Ashara now.

 

Risha and Vette? Maybe after a few dozen shots/beers. Otherwise, I believe they'd have to be VERY in love with the female Smuggler/Warrior to do anything physical.

I'm not sure about Risha. I haven't seen that much of her since getting her as a companion, since my Smuggler is a good guy who wants to do what's right more than just get paid, and Risha's not pleased with that. But she strikes me as the kind of person who's had more than a few flings, and those might not have all been with men. I can see Risha thinking that getting involved with a female Smuggler would be just another quick bit of fun, and finding herself more interested than she expected. Could be an interesting way to do the story.

 

As for Vette, it's really hard to say; I've commented about that before.

 

Well, this is all personal opinion of course, but I don't think it's about teaching players anything. I don't think it's about sending a message that it's okay - or not okay - to be anything, really. If it was some huge moral lesson then the first few Sith Inquisitor missions aren't sending a great message.

 

I think it's simply about enabling players to play the game the way they want to play it, that's all. In that case then unless there's a compelling reason to introduce particularly homophobic NPCs into the mix I don't think they'll bother. The majority of the people that the players meet probably have more important things on their minds, and there may very well be no real reason the matter would even come up in conversation.[snip]

This is true. I do think it's a great thing that BioWare doesn't play the "all heroes are straight" card; that's way too prevalent in most entertainment. But I agree that we probably won't see much in the way of homophobia in the game. Unless it's distinctly for a story point, having homophobic NPCs could really give the wrong impression and create a lot of negative press.

 

What I am looking forward to, though, is later story bits where the writers can take into account that the PC is in a relationship. I'm guessing it's something we won't see until an actual expansion pack, but it would be nifty to see the fact that a PC and their companion are together have some impact on the dialogue. I can see the Imperial Agent getting a mission to seduce someone and having the option to approach it differently because they're in a relationship, or them going ahead with the seduction having a negative effect on said relationship.

 

...though Kaliyo might just be upset that you didn't bring her into it.

[Zandilar]

I agree that Dorne would be a bit hesitant, and probably more than a little surprised.

<snip>

 

Nadia, probably not so much. VERY conservative upbringing, there.

 

Conservative doesn't automatically mean anti-gay or not-likely-to-be-gay, especially in a fantasy world where real-world religious/political/cultural baggage doesn't exist.

 

Given neither of the two mentioned women come from Earth, we don't know what their respective "conservativism" entails (or even if they are considered conservative at all by their own societies). What if both their societies are accepting of all sexualities? A conservative person from that cultural background wouldn't have an issue with gay people or being gay themselves.

 

So just be careful when throwing terms like that around.

[LordRaeth]

Afaik, they confirmed that only new companions would be able of a same sex relationship, they won't be going back to alter the existing companions. Edited March 16, 2012 by LordRaeth

[sparklecat]

As some people have alluded to, I'd be very hesitant to try and apply our own society's attitudes towards same-sex relationships to how it'd be viewed in the game. I see no reason why, outside of cases where the companion themself or you are expected to produce an heir, that they should even see it as something surprising, to find that they are attracted to you. And that's good, because I've had my fill of "is this too gay for you?" moments in other Bioware games where I didn't think they particularly fit.

[Suaine]

Afaik, they confirmed that only new companions would be able of a same sex, they won't be going back to alter the existing companions.

 

That's actually not confirmed. In fact, the things they said at the summit hinted strongly that at least some of the current companions will be made available.

[sparklecat]

Afaik, they confirmed that only new companions would be able of a same sex, they won't be going back to alter the existing companions.

 

You have been misinformed.

[LordRaeth]

Really? Cool, I'm not against it, I just read, on these forums, that they wouldn't readdress the earlier relationships because they'd have to do a lot of work and would rather look forward than backwards.

 

Would be pretty good though, planning on being a female Rattataki Jedi possibly going down the dark or neutral path so would add another element to it.

Edited March 16, 2012 by LordRaeth

[Kioma]

Well, either way they have confirmed that the SGRA content is coming at some unspecified date this year, so I guess we'll find out before 2013 whether they're SGRAfying extant companions or only going for new ones.

[MIkeBear]

Thank you for your kind welcome!

 

I'm glad Bioware is commited to it even if there isn't a specific time frame.

[Captain_Zone]

Conservative doesn't automatically mean anti-gay or not-likely-to-be-gay, especially in a fantasy world where real-world religious/political/cultural baggage doesn't exist.

 

Given neither of the two mentioned women come from Earth, we don't know what their respective "conservativism" entails (or even if they are considered conservative at all by their own societies). What if both their societies are accepting of all sexualities? A conservative person from that cultural background wouldn't have an issue with gay people or being gay themselves.

 

So just be careful when throwing terms like that around.

 

Good morning. To address this, Dorne, while not from Earth, was raised in a military family in the Empire. And Nadia is the daughter of a senator. Very conservative upbringings for both of them. I feel they would be worried about what their families would think. In fact, Dorne, during one of her convos, IS worried about what her family thought of her decision to defect.

 

Granted, I haven't had much experience with Nadia, but she takes the Jedi Code very seriously. Way more seriously than Ashara, apparently. It's hard not to apply "Earth morals" to Star Wars, since George Lucas pretty much did just that with the movies/books he wrote. He's said he's against it, so BioWare has their work cut out for them already. I hope it happens this year, and I hope that George comes around.

[Suaine]

Good morning. To address this, Dorne, while not from Earth, was raised in a military family in the Empire. And Nadia is the daughter of a senator. Very conservative upbringings for both of them. I feel they would be worried about what their families would think. In fact, Dorne, during one of her convos, IS worried about what her family thought of her decision to defect.

 

Granted, I haven't had much experience with Nadia, but she takes the Jedi Code very seriously. Way more seriously than Ashara, apparently. It's hard not to apply "Earth morals" to Star Wars, since George Lucas pretty much did just that with the movies/books he wrote. He's said he's against it, so BioWare has their work cut out for them already. I hope it happens this year, and I hope that George comes around.

 

Do you have a source for what Lucas thinks of this? I can't for the life of me find anything either way and I feel like this is one of the more persistent myths around this topic.

[stormdrakelord]

i say, that if they do add SGR dialogue to current companions (which might not happen), i would like to see something like "i am not usually interested in my own gender, but i can make an exception for you" with Elara pulling your rank into the equation. kinda like Kaidan Alenko, one of their characters in Mass Effect 3. Edited March 16, 2012 by stormdrakelord

[Captain_Zone]

Do you have a source for what Lucas thinks of this? I can't for the life of me find anything either way and I feel like this is one of the more persistent myths around this topic.

 

My fault. Was going off what I heard. Just woke up, so I should have looked it up first. Apologies.

[LizardSF]

That's actually not confirmed. In fact, the things they said at the summit hinted strongly that at least some of the current companions will be made available.

 

Could you provide a source for this, as it contradicts a lot of things I've heard about their intention to not just record a lot of the same dialog but with pronouns swapped, etc -- that they wanted SGRs to feel as organic and natural as the current relationships, rather than being a cheap add-on.

 

Not saying you're wrong, but this is the first I've heard indicating this. I'd like to see the actual words so I can judge for myself.

[Lurkz]

Could you provide a source for this, as it contradicts a lot of things I've heard about their intention to not just record a lot of the same dialog but with pronouns swapped, etc -- that they wanted SGRs to feel as organic and natural as the current relationships, rather than being a cheap add-on.

 

Not saying you're wrong, but this is the first I've heard indicating this. I'd like to see the actual words so I can judge for myself.

 

It was in that same discussion. They said they'd been working on SGRAs since before launch but time and budget constraints kept them from finishing in time for launch. They also went on to say that they already knew which companions would be allowed for SGRA since they'd been working on them.

 

Not sure if there's a transcript or the videos of the Summit up anywhere yet unfortunately.

[Suaine]

Could you provide a source for this, as it contradicts a lot of things I've heard about their intention to not just record a lot of the same dialog but with pronouns swapped, etc -- that they wanted SGRs to feel as organic and natural as the current relationships, rather than being a cheap add-on.

 

Not saying you're wrong, but this is the first I've heard indicating this. I'd like to see the actual words so I can judge for myself.

 

I will as soon as they put up the videos for the guild summit panels. The summary I've seen on Darth Hater isn't word-for-word accurate and when we deal with implications it's hard to judge based on hearsay. As for other sources, back when they first announced the inclusion of SGRAs, Stephen Reid made a few clarifying statements regarding the possible inclusion of current companions.

 

If you would care to read them, they're on the front page of this thread, right under the mod post.

[Jenovan]

A transcript (validity unknown until the videos are posted, c'mon Bioware) is pasted on the front page of this thread, but here:

 

Q: Any update on same gender romance?

Daniel: It is coming and it is coming with story updates. It is something that depends on the writers and we want to do right, and writers have a long lead time. We did not want to just change all the dialogue for the other gender. That is not writing, that is not story telling. This was cut originally because of budget and time issues. We have designs, we know what romance options we want to put in for this. It is coming when full story comes, and full story is coming this year. We are still on track.

 

Some have interpreted this as implying that at least some of the existing companions will become available -- mention of "change", the fact that it was in the plan but cut, and the fact that they already know what options they want to use.

 

(Personally I feel that the language is still inconclusive, probably purposely so, but I think the majority of the folks wanting this content would like to be able to play through with the companions they're already attached to. We're hopeful!)

 

 

Edit: The longer we go on without the videos of the panels, the more frustrated I get with the fact that I missed watching this specific panel by about 20 minutes. :| How can there be no transcripts? Did they not allow recorders? (That seems silly since it was streamed..)

Edited March 16, 2012 by Jenovan

[LordRaeth]

May sound stupid but what dpes SGRA stand for?, first thing that comes up when i google it is Stroud Green Resident#s Association

[Lurkz]

May sound stupid but what dpes SGRA stand for?, first thing that comes up when i google it is Stroud Green Resident#s Association

 

Same-Gender Romance Arcs

[LizardSF]

 

(Personally I feel that the language is still inconclusive, probably purposely so, but I think the majority of the folks wanting this content would like to be able to play through with the companions they're already attached to. We're hopeful!)

 

Yeah, I read the exact same quote and got a totally opposite interpretation: That it would be with new companions, and presumably for post-50 content.

 

So, I'd say, there's a certain amount of "listener bias" -- you can hear what you want to hear (or what you don't want to hear, if you're glass-half-empty type). I guess we'll know for sure when it happens.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Moitteva
removed IC

[Suaine]

Yeah, I read the exact same quote and got a totally opposite interpretation: That it would be with new companions, and presumably for post-50 content.

 

So, I'd say, there's a certain amount of "listener bias" -- you can hear what you want to hear (or what you don't want to hear, if you're glass-half-empty type). I guess we'll know for sure when it happens.

 

On the other hand, think about what it says when all SGR content is 50+ only. Every new character and every new player has to play for weeks in a completely heteronormative environment until they can finally be freed of their closet. I find that somewhat counter to their stated goal of "doing it right".

 

However, as I've said in this thread, I believe they might actually add both content for the leveling player/those who waited to talk to their companions as well as new content for players at 50 who've done everything already, regardless of their interest in SGRAs or OGRAs.

 

Their wording was certainly vague enough to allow for a variety of interpretation, but it's somewhat unlikely that they will add 16 new companions just for SGRAs. People have already speculated that it will be a mix of the two - some new companions and some old ones.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Moitteva
removed quoted IC