Same gender relationships clarifications?

[BrenNerani]

I say BioWare will do it. I've seen firsthand how open minded their writers can be in Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and here as well... Some would say pervy, even. *cough* SithWarriorOnDromundKaasWithLadyGrathanAndMakingVetteWatch *cough*

 

YEP. That, plus a line in the LA Times article about how Lucasarts stepped in and made BW tone down some of the sex slave stuff...

Edited March 15, 2012 by BrenNerani

[Suaine]

TBH yeah I can see it with her. Then again I'm not saying that all of the current companions are defintely one thing or another. Some do present enough ambiguity in their behaviour that one cant help but be curious as to which way they swing.

 

That said, you'd be hard pressed to find another companion thats as, ambiguous, as she is. Having leveled every class to atleast 45, (speaking from a male characters pov,) I can feel reasonably certain about that.

 

Well, with the exception of maybe Malavai Quinn, heh.

 

That's because you're playing from a POV in which all characters are default straight unless proven otherwise. None of the companions, Kaliyo excepted, actually go out of their way to tell you about their sexual proclivities or history unless you romance them. And since the romance content is OGRA only, that will color your perception.

 

Most of them could easily be bisexual or written in such a way that they swing whichever way the player character is. And why not? In this game you can change their skin color and facial features to better suit your romantic inclinations, so what makes orientation different from a game mechanics perspective? There are a hundred Corsos on a server, so I can have a gay Corso who's a black man, a white Corso who is straight, an olive skinned bisexual Corso - because in my little pocket universe, there is only one Corso - MY Corso.

[Captain_Zone]

haha yeah exactly that quest is usually what I use when people are playing the 'morals' card

 

Tbh, I was laughing so hard when I was having that convo with Lady Grathan and then Vette's "So, you're the 'Any shuttleport in a storm kinda guy?'" remark made me fall right out of my chair.

[WarpedWiseMan]

Where this is not a bad idea at all for same sex relationships, I think the major thing people are missing here... is that the game only came out in December. They aren't going to add new content such as that so quickly. Most of you all are WoW players as well, there were no romancing options labeled in that game unless it was with another players character.

 

Please, give them time and be patient with this... they're offering you gold and you're complaining because it's not enough. They will eventually cater so all sexual preferences and people... patience... you dang Sith!

 

Personally I haven't seen any complaints about it not being done already. I've only seen discussions about how people think it should be done. However, as for not making such a change soon, I don't think it'll take as long as you seem to think. This content was planned before the game was released, just like legacy was planned, but so far gives nothing more then a last name. From what I've read, it looks like some legacy benefits will be available with the next patch, which is slated for early next month. From what they've officially announced, it's already a major content patch. Even if they do NOT include SGR in that patch, it's not going to be far behind.

[amnie]

Hit the nail on the head there lets all just EPR together why is everyone so hyped upon doing it with a NPC.

 

yeah and like I said, the UK rating is because of violence, not possible sexual content

[Kyrel]

Combined 198 pages of posts for the sake of Space Lesbians.

 

PS. I do ( actually seriously) hope that I could pimp my bodytype 1 Malequisitor to Khem. Doubt I'll ever see that one happening tho. In essence, I do hope to see same sex relationships happening in future storylines/companons.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Kyrel

[Captain_Zone]

Combined 198 pages of posts for the sake of Space Lesbians.

 

PS. I do ( actually seriously) hope that I could pimp my bodytype 1 Malequisitor to Khem. Doubt I'll ever see that one happening tho. In essence, I do hope to see same sex relationships happening in future storylines/companons.

 

Heck, I'm still hoping we can find Zash a new body that looked just like her starting body (Victoria Beckam with bigger bewbies)

Edited March 15, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[Suaine]

Combined 198 pages of posts for the sake of Space Lesbians.

 

PS. I do ( actually seriously) hope that I could pimp my bodytype 1 Malequisitor to Khem. Doubt I'll ever see that one happening tho. In essence, I do hope to see same sex relationships happening in future storylines/companons.

 

It's more pages actually. I think this is the... fourth incarnation of the thread since around January. And not just because of space lesbians, either. You'll find quite a few gay or bisexual people posting here who just want to play as someone they can relate to. And there is very likely a number of girls who are in it for the guys. SGRAs cater to a wide variety of players, those who want to play something other than themselves, those who want to play a hero who shares their orientation, and those who want to try it for the giggles. We're not here to judge why people want it, really.

 

I'm wondering how far they're willing to take the romances though. I think most of those are with humans or near-humans. The aliens don't get much play unless they're sexy aliens.

[MGriffith]

And when they do implement SSRs, I can see some Smugglers going completely Jack Harkness (from Dr. Who). lol

 

So many species, so little time...

 

also ...

 

There will be lots of dancing

 

 

(I couldn't believe that the BBC let through that scene where he said: Ladies, your number of viewers just doubled)

[Captain_Zone]

Well, what would you call someone who was obviously not willing to even consider a possibility? I do believe "closed minded" is better than some alternatives. I could have gone with "pig-headed" or something even worse.

[Paralassa]

Hi guys!

 

We have recently removed or edited some posts in this thread. Please remember that discussions about real-world politics, morality or ethics are inappropriate for the forums given their volatile nature.

 

We ask that all posts in this thread remain strictly on topic - which is the implementation of same-gender romance arcs for companions. Please do not debate whether or not it should be implemented.

 

Please do not make posts criticizing the community or other posters. Rude and disrespectful comments will be removed and action may be taken against your account.

 

Furthermore, please do not respond to any problem posts. If someone posts something which is off-topic or rude, please FLAG the post (by clicking the flag icon in the top right corner of the post) so that our Community Team may investigate it. We really appreciate your timely reports as this makes our response to bad posts that much quicker.

 

Finally, we ask that if you discuss any companion's advanced storyline that you please use the spoiler tag ([ spoiler ] [ /spoiler ], sans spaces) around any information which may spoil the storyline for others.

 

Thank you for your understanding!

[sithlordcarnage]

Could we have inter organic relationships. Cause T-7 is kinda hot

[Tamaranis]

Ah, too bad that exchange with Variden got deleted just as we ended up back on topic:

 

So anyway, the core of the objection to the point that companion characters of fluid, moldable characters and not people, as evidence by the fact you can choose their apparent race, was that when it comes to sexuality, a majority of players may not be able to figure this out, and instead interpret the situation as the character choosing to change their sexuality to please the player character.

 

First of all, there's the matter than quite a few people think some of the companion characters are bisexual. You can talk about confirmation bias if you want, but it's meaningless. If significant numbers of people interpret a character's sexual orientation as bisexual (and others disagree) then that character's sexual orientation is not clear. The psychological phenomenon that lead people to their respective conclusions are irrelevant.

 

From what little information we've got on this, it sounds like some existing companions are going to be romanceable by player characters of the same gender. Some of those seemingly bisexual companions will be confirmed as bisexual.

 

There's no change here. We go from not knowing the character's sexual orientation to knowing it is bisexual, but the character doesn't change. We just gain new information. Since there's no change in the character's sexual orientation there can't be any appearance of a decision to change it. No problem there.

 

If a situation should arise such as say... in some iterations of game playthroughs Corso is gay, well then in all likelihood Corso was always gay within that little microuniverse. You seem to think a majority of players will be too stupid to figure it out, and will instead think Corso has chosen to change his sexual orientation. There's a few reasons that's easily overcome, though:

 

-This is still a game where you can choose Corso's apparent race. This is clearly something that is not possible in the real world. It plainly establishes that the companion characters are fluid and molded to the desires of the player. It's a pretty big hint.

 

-Even if a majority of players are too stupid to figure it out, a majority of them don't need to. On any given playthrough Corso will be either gay or straight, and within that context his sexual orientation will not change. The player does not interact with other Corsos from other players' games. If a majority of players don't observe the difference there's no implied change of sexual orientation and so no implication Corso chose to change his sexuality.

 

-If a majority of players are likely to play more than one smuggler and notice the difference, or pick up on it through forums, guides, YouTube videos etc, well, big studios are often accused of assuming their customers are morons and spelling things out in a way that is so obvious it is painful. A snippet of dialog, perhaps referencing past lovers, failed relationships, unrequited love, or similar, could firmly establish Corso's sexual orientation as static within each arc and point out conflicting character histories across playthroughs. A nice, obvious, brick to the face with a note on it explaining that as far as you're concerned, Corso always was straight/gay.

[Suaine]

Aside from their own changeable nature, it is difficult to claim a companion has a given sexual orientation when they can be involved in a romance with characters of different species, colors and body types. I'm not saying that an actual person can't fall in love with someone outside their personal preferences, but in general people have a type (or several) - the companions are characters, created for the purpose of supporting the player character in specific ways and they don't get the luxury of a full human experience. They are there to be what we want them to be in many different ways.

 

And with Legacy, this will include Corso "I hate the Empire and everything Sith" Riggs falling in love with a Sith pureblood Smuggler. Yeah.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Suaine

[MusedMoose]

So anyway, the core of the objection to the point that companion characters of fluid, moldable characters and not people, as evidence by the fact you can choose their apparent race, was that when it comes to sexuality, a majority of players may not be able to figure this out, and instead interpret the situation as the character choosing to change their sexuality to please the player character.

 

First of all, there's the matter than quite a few people think some of the companion characters are bisexual. You can talk about confirmation bias if you want, but it's meaningless. If significant numbers of people interpret a character's sexual orientation as bisexual (and others disagree) then that character's sexual orientation is not clear. The psychological phenomenon that lead people to their respective conclusions are irrelevant.

 

From what little information we've got on this, it sounds like some existing companions are going to be romanceable by player characters of the same gender. Some of those seemingly bisexual companions will be confirmed as bisexual.

 

There's no change here. We go from not knowing the character's sexual orientation to knowing it is bisexual, but the character doesn't change. We just gain new information. Since there's no change in the character's sexual orientation there can't be any appearance of a decision to change it. No problem there.

Well said, and an interesting way to put it. I hadn't thought much about the psychology behind apparent flexible companion sexuality, but what you've said makes a lot of sense.

 

There's also the possibility that some of the companion characters might discover that they're bisexual due to the time they spend with the PC. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the SGR conversations have the companions dealing with feelings for the PC that are a huge surprise, because they always thought they were straight. This pretty much works with what you've said, as it's not that the companion is changing their sexuality for the PC, but that the companion has gained new information about themselves.

 

Another way I like to look at it takes more of a literary perspective. It's a very, very common thing in sci-fi and fantasy stories that two people who are often in dangerous situations and spend a lot of time helping each other out when things get violent tend to end up romantically involved. Consider this, and consider our characters and their companions. Our PCs do very little that isn't throwing themselves into violent situations, and the companions are always at their sides. Seems perfectly natural to me that they'd develop feelings for each other.

 

There's a lot of different ways that BioWare could go with this, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it plays out. With that in mind, how do y'all think the various companions would deal with being attracted to someone of the same gender? Who would be surprised, who wouldn't, who might even try to deny it?

[Captain_Zone]

A lady I've known for 20 years happens to be bisexual. She explained it as "Love doesn't care about gender". I do believe that sums it up. The companion characters may fall in love with the player, regardless of gender. I would advise making any ss romance triggers be flirts, so it doesn't just slip out that Corso loves the male Captain during one of his convos. That could get... awkward. lol

[Variden]

Ah, too bad that exchange with Variden got deleted just as we ended up back on topic:

 

So anyway, the core of the objection to the point that companion characters of fluid, moldable characters and not people, as evidence by the fact you can choose their apparent race, was that when it comes to sexuality, a majority of players may not be able to figure this out, and instead interpret the situation as the character choosing to change their sexuality to please the player character.

 

First of all, there's the matter than quite a few people think some of the companion characters are bisexual. You can talk about confirmation bias if you want, but it's meaningless. If significant numbers of people interpret a character's sexual orientation as bisexual (and others disagree) then that character's sexual orientation is not clear. The psychological phenomenon that lead people to their respective conclusions are irrelevant.

 

From what little information we've got on this, it sounds like some existing companions are going to be romanceable by player characters of the same gender. Some of those seemingly bisexual companions will be confirmed as bisexual.

 

There's no change here. We go from not knowing the character's sexual orientation to knowing it is bisexual, but the character doesn't change. We just gain new information. Since there's no change in the character's sexual orientation there can't be any appearance of a decision to change it. No problem there.

 

If a situation should arise such as say... in some iterations of game playthroughs Corso is gay, well then in all likelihood Corso was always gay within that little microuniverse. You seem to think a majority of players will be too stupid to figure it out, and will instead think Corso has chosen to change his sexual orientation. There's a few reasons that's easily overcome, though:

 

-This is still a game where you can choose Corso's apparent race. This is clearly something that is not possible in the real world. It plainly establishes that the companion characters are fluid and molded to the desires of the player. It's a pretty big hint.

 

-Even if a majority of players are too stupid to figure it out, a majority of them don't need to. On any given playthrough Corso will be either gay or straight, and within that context his sexual orientation will not change. The player does not interact with other Corsos from other players' games. If a majority of players don't observe the difference there's no implied change of sexual orientation and so no implication Corso chose to change his sexuality.

 

-If a majority of players are likely to play more than one smuggler and notice the difference, or pick up on it through forums, guides, YouTube videos etc, well, big studios are often accused of assuming their customers are morons and spelling things out in a way that is so obvious it is painful. A snippet of dialog, perhaps referencing past lovers, failed relationships, unrequited love, or similar, could firmly establish Corso's sexual orientation as static within each arc and point out conflicting character histories across playthroughs. A nice, obvious, brick to the face with a note on it explaining that as far as you're concerned, Corso always was straight/gay.

 

 

I find myself agreeing with this entire sentiment in fact, so I believe that I'll leave it at that. I'd post more, however the fear of having something substantial deleted, again, disuades me from doing so.

 

I apologize for causing our earlier exchange to became heated, as that wasnt my initial intent for posting here in the first place. However having something I post sarcastically belittled to the point of making myself look misinformed or even childish, well, Im a highly competitive person. Sometimes that gets the better of me. One of my many, many flaws unfortunately.

 

Anyways I agree with you, and as I had posted earlier I have no objections to anyone having the opportunity to mold his/her own gaming experience how they see fit.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Variden

[MIkeBear]

I know I'm going to get slapped for even asking, but there isn't a time frame yet is there?

 

All that ME3 Kaidan loving reminded me of my poor SWTOR toons lack of same sex loving!

[Lurkz]

I know I'm going to get slapped for even asking, but there isn't a time frame yet is there?

 

All that ME3 Kaidan loving reminded me of my poor SWTOR toons lack of same sex loving!

 

It will be released this year. Best time frame we have so far.

[MusedMoose]

I know I'm going to get slapped for even asking, but there isn't a time frame yet is there?

 

All that ME3 Kaidan loving reminded me of my poor SWTOR toons lack of same sex loving!

Nah, nobody gets slapped in this thread unless they want to.

 

But seriously, we don't have a time frame other than "this year". BioWare's people said at the guild summit that SGRs would be part of the story patch coming later this year. We can guess when that will be, but seeing as how BW hasn't said anything else about the story patch, I'm betting they won't say anything more until they're good and ready.

 

Welcome to the thread.

[natashina]

I know I'm going to get slapped for even asking, but there isn't a time frame yet is there?

 

All that ME3 Kaidan loving reminded me of my poor SWTOR toons lack of same sex loving!

 

Good evening and welcome to the thread! Always neat to see new names 'round here.

 

We like to speculate on time frames, and we like to toss around ideas about implementation and theories about possible stories. There is also some education too, from people that are writers and those that know about business. If you have a chance, try to start from about page 70(that's when bickering about the issue in my sig stopped) and take a gander. There is so many great points, little bits of info and a lot of humor. You're not getting slapped, and I wish I had more I can tell you.

 

I still like the idea of May 4th, for the new romance content. It's a great way to go into Spring, and frankly, that was the best pun I've heard in weeks. And my husband is very punny. I don't have my heart set on it though. I'll play the game and watch the forums and see what develops.

[Captain_Zone]

Good evening and welcome to the thread! Always neat to see new names 'round here.

 

We like to speculate on time frames, and we like to toss around ideas about implementation and theories about possible stories. There is also some education too, from people that are writers and those that know about business. If you have a chance, try to start from about page 70(that's when bickering about the issue in my sig stopped) and take a gander. There is so many great points, little bits of info and a lot of humor. You're not getting slapped, and I wish I had more I can tell you.

 

I still like the idea of May 4th, for the new romance content. It's a great way to go into Spring, and frankly, that was the best pun I've heard in weeks. And my husband is very punny. I don't have my heart set on it though. I'll play the game and watch the forums and see what develops.

 

Welcome back. I came up with one a few posts up. Probably already been suggested, but I put it up anyhow. Make ss relationships ONLY happen if the player flirts with the companion. Otherwise, it could get really awkward in some cases, not just the example I gave up there. lol

[natashina]

Welcome back. I came up with one a few posts up. Probably already been suggested, but I put it up anyhow. Make ss relationships ONLY happen if the player flirts with the companion. Otherwise, it could get really awkward in some cases, not just the example I gave up there. lol

 

 

Well, you can't really start any kind of romance without flirting, so I think you're safe there. Just don't return the flirt. I have decent affection with Quinn and I refuse to do his romance arc. Trust me, they'll make sure the [Flirt] is clearly visible. Plus, they will find away to make sure any new flirts won't take up space from other dialog options. The idea that seems to have made the most sense is putting it on the left hand side of the wheel.

 

Just remember: BW will never try to trick anyone into peruse a romance arc that they don't want to. If you don't feel the pressure to romance as a M/F, then it will be the same for S/S.

Edited March 16, 2012 by natashina

[Captain_Zone]

Well, you can't really start any kind of romance without flirting, so I think you're safe there. Just don't return the flirt. I have decent affection with Quinn and I refuse to do his romance arc. Trust me, they'll make sure the [Flirt] is clearly visible. Plus, they will find away to make sure any new flirts won't take up space from other dialog options. The idea that seems to have made the most sense is putting it on the left hand side of the wheel.

 

Just remember: BW will never try to trick anyone into peruse a romance arc that they don't want to. If you don't feel the pressure to romance as a M/F, then it will be the same for S/S.

 

Oh yeah. I trust BioWare to do it right. They've always excelled at storytelling and relationship/friendship choices. I do believe that Jade Empire was their first game that included full blown gay/lesbian relationships. Silk Fox for females and Sky for males. Great game! Also, a male character could hook up with both Dawny and Fox at the same time if certain conditions were met.

[Tamaranis]

With that in mind, how do y'all think the various companions would deal with being attracted to someone of the same gender? Who would be surprised, who wouldn't, who might even try to deny it?

 

Dorne might have issues. There isn't really any canon on how various factions or organizations deal with issues like this. Everyone seems pretty into equality in terms of everything except race, with fantastic racism being widespread.

 

But still, I could see the empire as having really strong do your duty, raise a family, type attitudes for the common person. Especially with that historical near-genocide and having to build up the numbers to come back from it thing.

 

And she's so very proper.

 

Same thing for some other strongly "imperial" characters, I think. So probably Quinn.

 

Sith on the other hand, I have trouble seeing them having any difficulty at all with just about any kind of sexual practice. Give in to your passions and all that. Yeah, they're into strong lines of force users, but they seem less interested in achieving that through strong, traditional family values and more interested in overt eugenics.

 

Kira just seems so infatuated with the Jedi Knight regardless of the Knight's gender...

 

Most characters I've got no idea, though. Because the issue basically never comes up, its hard to get an idea how any given person would feel about it...

 

The easiest implication to read from that is that the issue never comes up because it's not an issue and no one cares, but the argument that there must be people who are accepting of homosexual relations in the galaxy because it's so vast and varied runs the other way... it's so vast and varied, every prejudice imaginable must exist somewhere.

 

I mean, there are probably planets where they burn left-handed people at the stake. And planets where only the exalted lefties are permitted to hold government office.