To think, I actually believed that this companies ridiculous implementation of "F2P" couldnt possibly be any worse. EA/Failware...you never cease to amaze me!

+10000000 Over the passed two months or so Ive found myself trying to rekindle my like affair, (as opposed to love, which never existed for swtors pvp), with this games players vs content, however, it always ended the same. The same realization that quality pvp was simply not going to materialize in this game. I tried playing without keeping an eye on my que button, however, this games repetitive pve simply urges me to que up frequentely. Only to come back out frustrated, and in worse a mood than when I started. Among the many disappointments regarding this game, that I'll look back on, this games pvp, and the wasted potential therein, will be chief amongst them. To those playing the wait game with this proposed "revamp"...heed my advice, dont hold your breath. Or at the very least, lower your expectations.

Good point, it did seem fishy how they really wanted you to purchase into that "expansion" asap. So glad my better judgement prevented me from falling for it. So predictable, EA/Failware, so predictable.

Bugware, Biofail, Failware...choose your favorite, I'm certain plenty more, interesting names, will crop up in the coming months to describe this monumental catastrophe.

And yet, how many of you will readily call someone a "Hater" simply because they disagree with your PoV? Basically, because they'd dare point out one, of many flaws, actual flaws, in this game. It cuts both ways on these forums, dont be purposely naive.

Its hilarious, how obsessed you SWTOR fans are with comparing this..."MMO"...with GW2 or any other true massively multiplayer games on the market. Stick to worrying about this games fate, and stop worrying about other games, which, are doing quite well despite SWTOR existence. Or perhaps, because of it? SWTOR players downplaying GW2's PVE, claiming it to be shallow and boring...oh the irony.

Couldnt of said it any better, though I'm afraid it'll fall on deaf ears. The fanboism on these forums is akin to a religious cult it seems. To some of these players, Bioware is to be glorified at all costs, and Star Wars is the holiest of holy names. Therefore, put them together, and no matter how stinky the pile, they'll happily roll around in it, and threaten anyone whom doesn't share their joy. Again, the zealotry more closely resembles that of an organized religion, than a simple game fandom. The irony, of course, is that these blind, happy loyalists dont realize that they're singlehandedly ushering in this games ultimate demise. But hey, sometimes, people have to learn the hard way.

Hmm, huttball fanboi huh, let me guess, your main toon is a Counselar/Inquisitor, right? Or a force user of some kind. Just curious. Casting aside, for the moment, your assinine attempt to casually relate huttball competency to sports knowledge/skill, (ooh, I get it, theres a BALL), just because you seem to be enamoured with this map, doesnt mean everyone else has to. Whats wrong with choice? Also, what other maps include acid baths and fire traps? You see, I'm trying to determine how success in this map, equates to success in other currently available maps.

Or maybe...

I can see where the OP is coming from on this, it does seem, a bit, much, to expect a player through jaunt his/her way through enemy faction territory to complete a companion quest, and yet, I kinda like it. Sure, at first I was like "W...T...*?" But then I accepted it, and even saw it as a way to play out the whole "special forces" aspect of my Commando/Vanguard toon. I was certain that there must've been a safe way through to it, however, both times, I simply found the highest point, near the west side of the Imp base, (where there were the least amounts of heavy hitting NPC's), jumped down off the cliff, and ran right through the remaining straggling guards. Was great fun watching the Imp players stop and take notice of what was happening. Made me feel like, well, a bad*** SF commando, if only for a minute or two.

Interesting little thesis, however, and this brings us back to this non topic you and the other continue to bring up...what does any of this have to do with SGR's? Are you and Lent sans implying that, somehow, SGR content is now some sort of overhwelming general priority, (outside of your inner circle, of course), in gaming development as a whole? In fact, lets be more specific shall we, what other popular MMO, what other successful MMO company invested so heavily, (and successfully), in SGR content, (or ANY romance content for that matter), that it singlehandedly changed the industry, hence forth marking such content as "a priority" within MMORPG development. Thereby, (and this is key), necessitating large portions of said games financial capital be focused on said content development. (This game, as Im certain you are aware, is not a single player RPG, therefore, the assertion that whats good for SPRPG's is also good for MMORPG's is not only woefully wrong, but entirely off base.) After all, that is what we've been discussing, is it not? The relative importance of romance arcs, (SGR or not), within the grander scheme of development, or am I wrong? I want you to go back, and specify exactly wherein I implied, (specifically or otherwise), that games should have no stories. Feel free to take your time on that. Games have genres? No way! And within said genres games are based and developed on these varying aspects. You must be joking!!! /sarcasm off. (Yes, common sense would apply here, if you believed it existed, which apparently, some of you dont.) Mind = BLOWN! After its all said and done, gamers want one thing, to be adequately entertained. (Thats...wait for it...common sense...is it not?) Break it all down, and this is what it all boils down to. I doubt very much that the general consensus would argue otherwise. Gaming companies, knowing this, attempt to please as many possible gamers/consumers/customers as possible.Therefore, which brings us full circle...why would any company willingly disregard, or more precisely, forsake its products essential needs, in order to attempt to cater to a very small minority of its base. Doing so, after all, would imply a lack, of common practical sense. Of course, the fact that you and the previously mentioned poster question whether the notion of common sense even exists, tells me everything I'll ever need to know about where this conversation would potentially be headed. Therefore, I bid you and the other person adieu. There are, far more efficient ways to waste time, after all.

Oh come now, you can certaintly make a reasonable assumption based on basic common sense. You can base your theory on relative gaming experiences throughout your gaming life. This is my 5th MMO in the last 9 years. Prior to that, I'd been gaming since the initial Atari VCS days. One tends to develop a certain...feel...for what standard gamers preferences are over such a period of time. Being, after all, a standard gamer myself. One can come to a reasonable conclusion, for example, when faced with a question regarding what players want, and what players need. Its all common sense, one does not need inside track info, nor be proficient in the Force to understand such things. This said, I have no interest in trying to convince you of anything. I'm simply asking that players see these things from all PoV's. There are always more than just 2.

How many would unsub due to a lack of PvP. How many would unsub due to a lack of general story content. How many would unsub due to a lack of SGR content. Tell me, which of these would cause a greater dent in player populations? When you can honestly answer this question, then you'll have your answer. You'll finally see this through EAwares eyes. This is a business, first and foremost. Losses are inevidable, however, some losses, one can live with, while others, not so much. Needs > Wants. BTW, living on promises made by employees that no longer have any say whatsoever in the day to day operations of this game or company, or for that matter, that are no longer employed by said company, epitomizes lack of logic. Just sayin'.

Its maddening how this new direction completely flies in the face of the whole "create more alts" mantra that this game previously encouraged in order to build up its legacy" system. Who, in their right mind, is gonna roll 6+ alts through the exact same content, for nothing more than the satisfaction of saying they did so. Honestly, even if I do buy into this, I only see myself choosing one toon to do so, (well, maybe two, IMP-REP), but thats it. Even so, its was always the personal story arcs that pushed me further, that encouraged me to slog through, quite frankly, boring theme park status quo quests. I doubt my level of interest in Makeb will ever come close to what it was when I first leveled a toon in this game, thanks in large part to no interesting personal aspect or PoV to be found. The fact is, if you take away the personal story aspect of this game out of the equation, what you're left is, is a very sub par MMO. Heck, take away VO's alltogether, and you have even less than that. It seems even the heads at EAware cant decide on a clear direction for this game anymore.

Rise of the Hutt Cartel...EAware's shifted focus unto the newly introduced ingame Cartel Market, the cynical side of me sees this as some sort of devious opportunity for EA/ware to make some extra cash via tie ins to the actual cash store. InB4 Hutt Pleasure Barge replica speeder introduced to cash shop for 50$, (per character, not account based, I may add.) Anyways, the one subject regarding the Star Wars universe that I have simply no interest in, is the subject matter regarding Hutts. They're simply not that interesting to me, never have been. My personal opinion, of course. Giant, bloated, interstellar mafia running space grubs. Oooh, fascinating!

The last time I saw this mentioned was back in January of this year, (2012), and that was casually based on what was said pre launch. I wouldnt put too much credence on this being the case any longer. The game has shifted priorities, and has been headed down a different course than what the original devs had intended, for some time now. As for my two creds on the subject at hand...its what I and many here have been saying for sometime now. Much to the chagrin of many of the faithful/willfully blind drones on these forums. There simply isnt enough of a budget remaining for not only side quest VO's, (Makeb), but also 8 individually fully voiced over class stories. Unless EA/ware are currently in possession of some sort of magical money tree, I dont see how they can possibly continue down that path. Given their current financial constraints, (this game is NOT a priority to EA, period.) We might indeed see a continuation of personal story arcs re-introduced at some point, however, I fully expect them to be fully TEXT based. So time to work on those reading comprehension skills kiddies. Perhaps the reason that no one has ever attempted a fully Voiced Over MMO before, was simply because, its simply not sustainable nor cost efficient/effective to do so for any extended period of time, (which MMO's are all about btw...extended, sustainable periods of game play/time.)

I disagree, heres why. No other WZ map caters, no, rewards one particular class archetype over others. Force users dominate this map, the fact that they can bypass otherwise unpassable obstacles like fire/acid, and high walls, makes this map woefully unbalanced towards all class types. Can the other classes survive and prosper, certaintly. Can they do so with the same amount of relative ease, not likely. Force Charge + Force Speed + Huttball = We win

/pretty emoticon deflection method # 4

But they did develop this "MMO" with this particular player type in mind, all throughout. Hence where the problem lies. Bioware played through its one strength, catered to one particular type of player, the one they know best. Single player rpg fans, particularly, ex-kotor players, with little no prior MMO experience. Has this not been the case?

This right here is an excellent point, one which Ive asked myself about on numerous times. What is this game, exactly? 1 - 49 does indeed feel like a single player rpg with co-op attached. It has all the elements that make up single player rpgs', a personal story designed for one play/hero, (you). Isolated, gated gameplay, (personal story zoning, star fox style, single player shooter.) The ability to restart the game under a different character, only with options earned from your previous experience, (legacy perks), something console gamers have been experiencing for ages.) So this points to a single player vision/direction from the developers. Then, you get to 50, and all of a sudden it decides that it wants to be an MMO. Prob is, at the so called "end-game" this game only manages to retain the worst possible options for cap play, (dailies in particular...the worst idea ever implemented in an mmo, ever. Basically, just a lazy way out for devs capped out on fresh ideas.) As well as instanced raid zones. Fine, most mmos implement this at end cap, however, heres the dilemna.... As the player I quoted Arcanus alluded to, by level 50 your expected to have a reasonable set of end game gear in order to participate in the group oriented end cap activities, (50+ WZ's and Raids). Which is reasonable, and expected, however, it seems this game, or rather, its developers would prefer you to simply re-roll another character and start from scratch. (The dev focus on legacy seems to confirm this.) Of course, this is counter productive if you ever hope to participate in any of the aformentioned end cap activities. Atleast, if you'd like to do so while remaining viable. So it seems, atleast to me, that this game suffers from some sort of identity crisis. There seems to be no clear game direction, just a collage of ideas previously instituted by other MMO's, hastily jumbled up together in the hopes of mashing it all into some sort of new style MMO. What was that old buzzword..."4th pillar"? Seems to me, that at this point, trying to reinvent the wheel, sort of speak, didnt pan out as well. As this so called 4th pillar simply could not be sustained in its current form, idenfinitely. The devs were better off using tried and true MMO methods, while picking at its sides, replacing, and "enhancing" the entire package with story. As opposed to focusing on story primarily, then throwing in proven mmo qualities for good measure. Had this happened, perhaps the outcome would have been totally different. Then again, from what I hear, the original devs weren't too keen on "taking advice" from anyone, outside of "Camelot", aka: Bioware. So who really knows.

Not just 32bit, I run a 64bit OS, Quad Core / SLI, 8 gig total ram pc. and my ram usage will gradually climb all throughout my play session. Even if I do nothing else but stay in one particular spot for a lengthy period of time. (Some planets seem to speed up the process worse than others. Taris, Alderaan, Voss to name a few, Im guessing its because of the excess use of shadows and foliage. Though, turning down these options does nothing to alleviate the problem. Also believe excess loading contributes to it.) At its norm, I'll see the ram usage gradually climb upto 30% from when I initially log on. Been like that since day uno. Hasnt changed, dont expect it to, I simply learned to deal with it, or simply ignore it. Since at its worse, Ive never seen my system exceed 64% total usage, its not a total big deal for me. No less annoying though.

Unfortunately, Ive played/been playing, (somehow, I still do from time to time, since its actually free now), since Closed Beta 1 my friend. Ive experienced everything that horrible, sadistic, and entirely infuriating RNG system of theirs has had to offer. (Forget loot, try enchanting or manastone socketing nowadays, most swear its worse than its ever been lol). Wont get into the other practices in that game that firmly cemented NCsoft into my "s*hit list" for life, for that would be a topic for another thread. Sufficed to say, the term "Random Number Generator", now means something totally different than what it used to, prior to my stint in that game.

In a sense, pretty much this. Its been Stun Wars since day one. Why not go ahead and also call it - Stun Wars: The Bubble Strikes Back - while we're at it. Dont count on EAware to fix anything, they've only proven to be quite efficient at compounding pvp related problems.

Yes, forcing me to stay in a fresh que---> (wherein my new teams current score is 135 to the opposing teams 390 in Alderaan --- or at frequent times when my newly que'd up map puts me at an immediate 0-4 huttball disadvantage, with 5 minutes remaining,) <---would never push me to rage quit faster, I'm quite certain. Despite whatever penalty I may incur in the process. Also, dont forget how awesome it would be if, while in one game, I spend time to communicate objectives via text to my team, while at my spawn point, for a few seconds too long apparently, then unexplicably get auto kicked, (due to a completely retarded afk detection/prevention system), only to incur this great lock out timer for added measure/insult. I'd like to add that, I'm certain that my general attitude towards all that is EAware/SWTOR would significantely improve, in a positive manner, should something like this ever be implemented.

Well one quick fix, devoid of reckless, badly implemented further nerfs, would be to introduce some specific choice options before queing up. For example: Que based on opponent class preference. Want a no holds barred 8 vs 8 man Sent vs Mara matchup, where everyone gets to cry and spit rage/hate at each other via /say chat, go right ahead! Yearn for those 1 hour long Operative vs Smuggler stealth-a-thons wherein no one ever, willfully, breaks their stealth, or escapes their opponents CC long enough to engage in meaningful, and expedient pvp? Well knock yourselves out! Or perhaps you simply wanna have a good time. Feel like having some good old fashioned laughs, choose the correct option, and que up those all Mando vs Merc warzones! There you have it, the fix all solution to all SWTOR's WZ pvp problems!