Harnessed Darkness\Shadows - The most OP talent in the game

[Scoloplastic]

I'm guessing I'm not the only one that has noticed the Sith Assassins\Jedi Shadows have turned into the most OP class in the game right now - when tank specced.

 

Unlike other heavy tank specs, like juggernauts or powertechs and their mirrors, which balance their survivability with lower damage output - it seems assassin specs mostly just lose a measly 5% to bonus damage from the stance but that's about it.

 

The main reason i'm seeing for this is the harnessed darkness talent - Here we have a talent that allows them to do

amount of damage in 3 seconds

 

If you're too lazy to check the video - it's 8k damage, immediately followed by a 2.2k crit.

 

This is done outside of melee range, is uninterruptable, and takes 6 seconds max to setup to get full stacks - if that's not enough, it also slows you to 50% and the icing on the cake - it also heals them for 12% of their HP (for comparison, powertechs have a 3min CD that heals them for 15% hp over 10 seconds...).

 

You may say its unreliable that all ticks will crit, but with recklessness at only a 1:30 CD and 1:15 with full pvp (not to mention an additional charge that makes sure the shock after the lightning also crits) - an assassin tank can easily get 90% crit chance for the duration of this up almost every fight.

 

Why in the world would a tank spec get access to a talent and burst damage like that? It would make sense to have this on the madness tree - but on their tank tree? why?

 

This reminds me of the (very short) time in WoW that druids bears got overbuffed and were dealing too much damage in bear (tank) form - which brought on a nerf very soon afterwards.

 

Just to remind you - operatives got nerfed for being able to deal this sort of damage situationally - while an assassin can do this potentially every 6 seconds.

 

Nerf incoming soon.

 

 

Flame all you want now...

 

 

Edit: Going over the posts and the discussion - I agree (and this is something I did refer to in the original post) that the Harnessed Darkness talent by itself is not the issue but the build itself and being connected to the tanking tree +all the utility of the class as well - as I noted, i can see this talent being in the madness tree and giving the madness tree much needed survivability & better burst (not sure if the latter is needed) - So i changed the title to what it is now.

 

And if you're bored, here's another example of what a good geared (and skilled, I'll give him that) Darkness assassin can do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FngwdbAANJ4&feature=related

Edited March 2, 2012 by Scoloplastic

[cycao]

well if you argument is solely based on HD well then mmmm. Our hybrid spec was nerfed, but i would say it needed to be. Now about your main argument regarding HD, It would be impossible to do this every six seconds, you would run out of force every time. Also if i am playing a good player (not saying you are but reading your post i wonder) if i get 3 stacks of HD they will stun or do a knock back on me.

 

I know it seems alot more players are using this build, but just because you got beat in a 1v1 does not mean its OP.

[Ekajjj]

I don't know what that Darkness spec is hitting, probably buncha kids with no PvP gear. I am in Full Champ and several BM pieces and mine don't hit quite that hard.

 

Yep, and non-interruptable force lightning doesn't make us immune to stun or knockback.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Ekajjj

[Panzerbase]

Stun or knock back to stop, good try though champ making it seem like the end of the world. And no it doesn't do 8k damage total, he actually used other moves once again you faield to mention that, and if you watch the video you notice the rest of the damage is pathetic. There isn't enough force regen built into the class to even do this back to back.

 

So in other words this shadow tank takes quite some time setting up his big move and the opposing player is too stupid to simply stun or knock him back. Fail is fail for poor players. And for the ticks to be even that high means the other guy was sadly udnergeared, yet another fail, noob in greens loses to BM/Champ geared shadow tank.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Panzerbase

[cycao]

Stun or knock back to stop, good try though champ making it seem like the end of the world. And no it doesn't do 8k damage, and if you watch the video you notice the rest of the damage is pathetic.

 

So in other words this shadow tank takes quite some time setting up his big move and the opposing player is too stupid to simply stun or knock him back. Fail is fail for poor players.

 

But the OP said I have to much burst...

[Panzerbase]

But the OP said I have to much burst...

 

Yes the awesome burst that took 40 seconds to setup and can be simply stopped by a stun or knock back and all is for nothing, looks more to me like a poor player who knows little outside of his/her class, if they bothered to spend some time understaning other class mechanics they would see much better results. But that takes work and they are lazy so I say good show shadow tank.

[Madnutter]

Stun or knock back to stop, good try though champ making it seem like the end of the world. And no it doesn't do 8k damage total, he actually used other moves once again you faield to mention that, and if you watch the video you notice the rest of the damage is pathetic. There isn't enough force regen built into the class to even do this back to back.

 

So in other words this shadow tank takes quite some time setting up his big move and the opposing player is too stupid to simply stun or knock him back. Fail is fail for poor players. And for the ticks to be even that high means the other guy was sadly udnergeared, yet another fail, noob in greens loses to BM/Champ geared shadow tank.

 

actually its more than capable of doing 8k damage, i've done over 9k before over the 4 ticks if you stack up buffs (more than just the harnessed shadows buffs) and it doesnt mean they're that undergeared, you can still get 2k, or just under, ticks on fully geared bm players, (certain classes obv)

[ombraa]

I get similar numbers on expertiseless targets, on well geared targets with a cd up sometimes deals 400 damage per tick. Usually being around 1,2k per tick

Don't base your opinion on a video made to show the best

Edited March 2, 2012 by ombraa

[Krytycal]

8k damage over a 3 seconds channel (very vulnerable to CC) is really nothing to write home about.

 

With enough buffs I can do two back-to-back 4K hits on my deception sin (Shock + Discharge) or with my Pyro (TD + Railshot) with a lot less setup and not much you can do to stop it.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Krytycal

[AetherMcLoud]

Also, Recklessness has 2 min cd, 1:30 is only for deep deception builds.

[oldshatterhand]

Let's be serious, sorcs are far more OP then assassins.

[Panzerbase]

I get similar numbers on expertiseless targets, on well geared targets with a cd up sometimes deals 400 damage per tick. Usually being around 1,2k per tick

Don't base your opinion on a video made to show the best

 

Exactly the damage output on a geared player is pathetic, and the video is a combination of 4 moves which the OP failed to mention, project or slow time to finish the setup on the combo , the telekinetic throw, and anything a player chooses as throw finishes. All of this could have been stopped by a simple stun or knock back if said noob knew the routine, they did not and paid the price, lack of knowledge killed this noob not any OP class.

 

Next time tell the whole story not your version of it.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Panzerbase

[Cowflab]

What is this BW? You mean to tell me assassins have 1 out of 3 viable, user friendly specs for PvP?

 

NERF THEM, IMMEDIATELY!!!

[exphryl]

Then you can combine Shroud too and it's gg against a lot of classes.

 

Sins have a lot going for them.

 

IMO, their Tank spec should NOT be doing that damage. You spec Tank/Tank Hybrids for suvivability. It's silly it's spec'd for damage. (On our server most sins have a tankish build in PvP).

 

Their DPS Trees should though, yet as it stands right now if I run in to a DPS sin it's a free kill and they don't do much damage which to me, stands at a current design flaw with the tree and needs to be severely looked at.

[Panzerbase]

Then you can combine Shroud too and it's gg against a lot of classes.

 

Sins have a lot going for them.

 

IMO, their Tank spec should NOT be doing that damage. You spec Tank/Tank Hybrids for suvivability. It's silly it's spec'd for damage. (On our server most sins have a tankish build in PvP).

 

Their DPS Trees should though, yet as it stands right now if I run in to a DPS sin it's a free kill and they don't do much damage which to me, stands at a current design flaw with the tree and needs to be severely looked at.

 

The only thing that needs to be severely looked at is your lack of skill and class knowledge.

[Khadroth]

Also, Recklessness has 2 min cd, 1:30 is only for deep deception builds.

 

No the CD on recklessness/force potency is 1.5 mins. Hence 1 min 15 sec CD if you have the stalker 4p bonus.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Khadroth

[Batslav]

using DPS gear = more dmg works for any other tank

i play with full tank gear and my dmg is not high nothing imbalanced here

[Hethroin]

Sure nerf HS, but fix deception and madness before that. In the current state the DPS gain of either "damage" spec does not warrant the liability of light armor in melee range and shortage of gap closing tools. Oddly enough, both of these issues are improved by full tank or partial tank specing.

 

I would agree that the tank sin does not need to be able to heal itself for 12% of its health every 15-20 seconds, it is already beefy enough. Both my shadow and sin do well enough without it in PVP as hybrid (24/0/17) specs.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Hethroin

[mclammitys]

nooo

 

dont go nerfing my spec =(

 

but tbh i think lowering the dmg would be ok but dont see the point lowering the healign thou.

[Vember]

That 3% healing per tick is already hit by trauma, which means 30% less healing per tic in pvp. It also takes longer than 6 seconds to set up, considering cooldowns and global cooldowns, and no, TK will not crit that high on geared players.

 

For the record, every single bit of self healing shadows/assassins have is hit with the 30% trauma debuff, that includes the Combat technique proc, the 3% per tic heal from HS, and the 10% heal from our 3 minute cooldown battle readiness, as well as the 1% heals balance/madness get from dot crits.

 

The constant whining by people that lose to better players is really getting old. There's no way in hell ANY melee should get nerfed in this game before sorc/sage and trooper/bh get a serious overhaul.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Vember

[Hethroin]

That 3% healing per tick is already hit by trauma, which means 30% less healing per tic in pvp. It also takes longer than 6 seconds to set up, considering cooldowns and global cooldowns, and no, TK will not crit that high on geared players.

 

For the record, every single bit of self healing shadows/assassins have is hit with the 30% trauma debuff, that includes the Combat technique proc, the 3% per tic heal from HS, and the 10% heal from our 3 minute cooldown battle readiness, as well as the 1% heals balance/madness get from dot crits.

 

The constant whining by people that lose to better players is really getting old. There's no way in hell ANY melee should get nerfed in this game before sorc/inquis and trooper/bh get a serious overhaul.

 

... every green number in the game is hit by trauma.

 

If you are a tank sin and you are losing 1v1 encounters to sorcs, and mecrs, you are doing something very wrong. As it stands even without the self heal the tank sin is one of the top 3 1v1 classes in the game. I say this with 125 valor ranks of shadow/sin under my belt.

[YodasSleeve]

31/0/10 with DPS gear FTW!

[cycao]

I think its fine as is only because its not a "guaranteed" heal. In any match i say i only get the full affect of all 4 ticks when, A) going up against a player who has no idea whats going on, or B) when i pop recklessness and get the extra range to get the ticks off from a distance. A good player will stun or knock back so i dont get the heal off. I know when i go against another darkness/mirrored I look for this.

[Reveillere]

Every 6 seconds? Come on, one can't put up 3 shocks + force lightning in 6 seconds.. 4 cds and shock is a 6 second cd alone, thrash has 30% to finish the cd of shock but then you would need to throw out some thrash's inbetween the shocks = no way near 6 seconds anyway.. + i think this guy must be using adrenals and relic along with recklessnesss.. ive never seen it tick for 2k lol o0.. but isnt it funny that the tank spec does higher dmg than dps spec ? ^^

[Vember]

... every green number in the game is hit by trauma.

 

Which is doubly effective against small heals.

 

If you are a tank sin and you are losing 1v1 encounters to sorcs, and mecrs, you are doing something very wrong. As it stands even without the self heal the tank sin is one of the top 3 1v1 classes in the game. I say this with 125 valor ranks of shadow/sin under my belt.

 

Equally geared, yes a tank shadow will take out a dps sorc 1v1, but I don't think anybody here is talking about duels or open world 1v1 randoms.

 

 

but isnt it funny that the tank spec does higher dmg than dps spec ? ^^

 

I've never played Infiltration, but Balance puts out way more damage than Kinetic. Just has crap survivability.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Vember