Snipers maybe. Maras only as carnage and if someone is stupid enough not to interrupt their gore rotation (i.e. - their burst is avoidable). Operatives? Don't make me laugh Wrong! Powertechs provide better sustained in pvp - their overall damage numbers are much higher... You continue to post false information. Railshot as a pyrotech has 90% arpen - so if I have 50% armor damage mitigation - Railshot treats it as if it's 5% mitigation - which is completely negligible. As for instant attacks - are you seriously comparing a real melee class like a marauder or a jugg, that has to be at 4m for almost all their attacks, to PTs? Which have just one attack at 4m, one at 10m and the rest at 30m? Melees always have instant attacks - otherwise it will be impossible for them to compete with range - same as why range need to be based mainly on cast\channeled attacks (or to a degree, dots) - otherwise they get a huge advantage being able to cast on the move at range - which is what the case is here, and why it's being nerfed.

I agree somewhat: Even with the nerf, PTs will still do by far the highest pvp single target damage in the game - as long as that remains, they should remain very squishy - same as what Rage juggs have to endure (being the best aoe pvp damage class) - so perhaps something along the lines of buffing their self heal to a 20% instant. Nothing more major than that.

Really? I thought it's having the highest burst in the game, or the highest pvp sustained dps, or having two main attacks completely ignore armor, or having all (but one that is seldom used) instant attacks.

I'm Scoloplastic

well, you kinda deserved it...

Good stuff. I pugged some WZs with you in the past - you're very good

Nice

Gee I wonder which class you play. L2P a class that requires some skill

As a scoundrel healer I encourage all you pyrotechs to respec to AP! Seriously, I'm so sick of not facing any challenge when fighting pyrotechs - please, spec AP so I can finally fear powertechs again.

There are very few "unique" abilities other classes bring. Sorcs as a class has one unique ability (one of the best utility skills in the game IMO) and many many great additional utilities skills. Sigh... Auto-attack is mostly used by classes to fill one of these two necessities: 1. Generate your resource (maras\juggs). 2. A filler between attacks to avoid running out of resources too soon Your large force bar, that can easily last for a good amount of time negates the need for it...

Sorry mista' - I'll try harder next time, it's important for me to impress you. Seems like you got racerolled by a WH geared rage jugg... Not to deny they hit hard - but even though they are wearing heavy armor, they're an extremely squishy class - without healer support they die a LOT compared to other classes (taking gear and skill out of the equation) If it was the other way around in terms of gear - there is no problem at all for the sorc\sage IF they know what they're doing I said sorcs are overpowered? perhaps you should read again... I don't play a sage\sorc in 50 pvp (if I had the time to level another toon to 50 - it would definitely be a sorc) - but I know the 2nd highest rated team in my server has 2 dps sorcs. I fought against them in the past and they do TONS of damage.

1) No big defensive cooldowns - that's true - but a sorc that knows how to keep max range and los well - barely ever dies in WZs - force sprint + self heal is an ability many classes would want. 2) In general I'm against execute moves for ranged classes, I think it should be reserved to melee only - The only ranged class (correct me of I'm wrong) that have it are snipers - and they are pure DPS. 3) You say no burst because sorcs don't have 5k crits - but a target that has crushing darkness & affliction ticking on him plus a death field & lightning strike - can take a huge amount of damage in a very short time. 4) DOTs have scaled the same as every other damage ability in regards to the HP inflation 5) If you have a healer around you - you can continue to cast consumption and get more and more force. If you don't, you still last a much longer time before going dry, than the classes that do have the 1.5 min refresh CD. 6) no no no. You can friendly pull, you can knockback, you can save your teammates lives with bubble, you can off heal if needed. If madness you have an amazing instant 8 sec mez + 2 sec stun. If you're lightning you have bubbles that mez, you have a knockback that roots. Sorcs are one of the highest utlity classes in the game - what on earth are you talking about?? 7) true 8) Yep - no ranged auto attack - comes together with the extremely high initial force pool you get. 9) I disagree - first of all, the instant whirlwind has two goals: take an additional enemy out of combat - which if you don't just tab dot everything you see - should and can work out extremely well. In addition, you get another stun on a relatively short CD. Also - the sorc hybrid, while nerfed, still provides a very good skillset and can easily compete with PTs for highest damage on WZs - they just took out the OP chain lightning wrath combo - but you can still get this combo - 1.5 force lightning into insta lightning strike - into chain lightning - into death field by the way, I search for some recent times sage\sorc hybrid videos and found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh6S531MWNo While his play isn't perfect (he backpeddles a bit mostly) - he still positions himself rather well and manage his force well also - checkout how hard he is to kill and how much damage he does compared to the rest of his team.

I tried to think of a DPS solution to sorcs in PVP, but then I remembered that (well played) madness\hybrid sorcs are among the best PVP DPS classes in the game...

Match making in regular WZs? These are noncompetitive matches - why should there be match making here? And what do you think is motivating people to get better gear? It's the opportunity of facing lesser geared opponents and facerolling them. Take that away (since there's no open world pvp) and you lower the motivation for the gear grind - which is not a good thing for an MMO. The place where matchmaking is missing is ranked WZs - which is why all the top rated pvp teams got their 3000 rating by grinding hundreds of matches against pugs - with no real sense of competition. Of course, it would be impossible to have a functioning 8v8 ranked (or non-ranked) system with the current dwindling population and no cross-sever queues, so it's a moot point - as you noted.

People cry about the marauders\sentinels' defensive cooldowns so much - but honestly, they die with these CDs just as much as any other class in WZs. The only place their CDs would be overpowered is arenas, but we don't have to worry about that for now.

Well - playing with 4 buttons would be bad, you have no argument from me there - but I'm pretty sure I could make a 4 button video with my PT and top the damage board

You're playing the easiest DPS: rotation wise, positioning wise, everything wise - face it.

I love how you try to paint a picture where sniper's are more dangerous than PTs in this scenario By the way, don't know if you heard about the little target icon that pops on you when a sniper gets ready to shoot you - then you can LOS before the shot goes off. On a pyro you hear the beep beep beep and you have to hope you have some defensive CDs available.

read carefully: Only affects your Ataru form damage, the crit damage buff still affect Massacre and Force Scream

I am highly skeptical that you don't play a pyro, or that anyone can actually kite you. If there are players that can kite you as a pyro, then you must be the worst pyro I've heard of

A counter class means a class that has abilities that specifically counter the other class's main role, or where the classes skillset simply fits well against the other class's defensive and offensive abilities and creates a significant 1v1 advantage.. Here are some examples, including from old days of wow (apologies for that): Sniper - Juggs\Maras: Snipers counter Juggs\Maras main gap closer with cover being immune to charge. They also have the ability to prevent them from doing damage using their two excellent 5s roots (one coupled with a knockdown) Concealment Ops - Snipers: Opening from stealth allows the Operative to close the gap the unchargeable sniper creates. Self cleanse can remove the sniper's roots immediately. Los + heal to easily exploit sniper's turret based damage. Mages - Warriors - Mages counter warriors charge with a lower CD blink that immediately creates the gap again. They can also directly counter warriors' ability to do damage with their endless amount of roots Deathknights (first versions) - restoration druids - DKs initially had the option of completely removing resto druids' dots - this proved too powerful and was eventually nerfed. ?? - Pyros - Is there any class that can counter Pyros ability to do damage? All their attacks are instant, their main attacks are 10m and 30m range and their dots are spammable (while cleanse isn't). Fact is - except for stunning them, (which you can't consider a counter as it affects every class the same way ) - there is no counter to them. Focus fire is a claim, but as a healer, if they pop their 25% damage shield (on a very short CD) - this puts them at over 50% mitigation, and they are very easy to keep alive at this point. There is no counter to pyros, that's what makes them overpowered, and that's what, in my opinion, makes them boring to play (which is why i shelved my WH geared one).

Well, gear grinds exist in MMOs for a reason, and that's not going to change obviously. But, I don't think getting the gear is the same experience for people who just dinged to 50 now, as opposed to people who hit 50 when 1.2 came out and no one had WH gear at all. The now very large headstart veteran players have, creates a very unsatisfying experience for new players - the problem is not the time it takes to grind the gear, but the fact that as a fresh 50 you get your butt whooped by most players now for a very very long period of time until you gear up to WH. At this point the gap is too big IMO - that's what new tiers of gear are for - so all the ppl with full WH can have a headstart with grinding the new tier, and the newbies can get to full WH relatively faster.

When more players like him - new (a rare thing) players, jump into WZs to get rolled and learn they have months of grinding losing WZs to catch up -all stop playing - And you are left with a free 2 play ghost town, I wonder if you'll still think the same. Edit: Not to say I'm opposed to gear grind, but it's time for a new season, a new pvp gear tier, and making the current War Hero items available with normal comms.

If you think the rotation difficulty for PTs is the same as other classes, then you are either very skilled, or very bad, I quit playing my PT because it was such a shallow thoughtless spec.

It would render dots specs useless when a competent healer is nearby - as we've seen in the past in other MMOs. You would need to adjust balance\madness, dirty fighting\lethatlity (which already got a semi anti-dispel talent because even the 4.5 sec CD cleanse was an issue for them) and annihilation\watchman in pvp and give those specs some sort of dispell protection (that is assuming Bioware even cares about pvp balance)