from love to hate in 24hrs

[XplaguesX]

i gotta say, i went from loving my OP to loathing it in a 24 hour span.

 

10-49 were awesome. hardly any trouble at all with PVE, destroyed in PVP. concealment was awesome and i never wanted to spec heals since thats all my BH does.

 

Now i hit 50..... i got my weekly ilum done, aswell as the daily ilum/pvp. i also had 1000/1000 merc/wz coms. got lucky and got 2 tokens in the bags i got. champ chest and helm. used the coms for champ knife and relic, and bought a bunch of centurian gear.

 

but now im useless. in PVE noone wants me. not even for HM BT runs... and PVP is a joke. huttball 90% of the time, and i just get tossed around and killed in seconds. even with the 500ish exp i have. i reeeeeeeeeally dont wana spec heals, but DPS ops are just laughable now.

[chuixupu]

Getting geared up makes a big difference.

[hulkweazel]

Every level 50 Op that I've seen (The few of them that remain) are specced heals. That tells you something.

[silentsurfer]

Long and short of it, you are a dps melee class or a healer. Every MMO always has an over abundance of melee because of game designs which make melee much more powerful than ranged, this game is no exception to that. As a melee class you have to shine above the rest or get lucky. On any given server you won't find a shortage Imperial side EVER of Sorcs or OPs.

[Kaijan]

Every level 50 Op that I've seen (The few of them that remain) are specced heals. That tells you something.

 

What server? My server is far from being heavy in Operatives, but healing Ops make up about 1/4th of all the operatives I find in warzones.

 

As for the OP, I'm really getting tired of seeing people essentially say that Operatives are useless. Are we on par for sustained DPS? No. Are we the strongest damage dealers? No. Are we balanced in any way, shape or form? No.

 

But we're not useless. We're fun to play, we're challenging to master, and we're really friggen good at pissing off people (which is apparently a talent; I feel like we should get skill points into "Piss em Off" where we get a bonus to damage if we get a whisper or a say that insults us).

 

There are tons of things to fix, but a lot can be overcome with practice. It just takes time. Gear up more, gear up properly, and learn to select your targets to cause the greatest impact in PvP (also, there is nothing more entertaining than running with another stealther and destroying one target at a time). In PvE, make friends. If you're running flashpoints with random people, you're probably not in an active enough guild.

 

I don't know if this is the class for you. But I will never have as much fun on any other toon as I do on the Operative.

[XplaguesX]

i can still do good damage in PVP on VS and alderan... but sadly i get 90% huttball.. and as much as i do like the mode, if i go anywhere near the catwalks its just " LOLBYE!" and i go flying out of the action for 20 secs till i run back. even trying to pick of stragglers, if a single ranged sees me, its pretty much over. put a dot on me. no more stealth (force dots).

[Maxillious]

I'm sorry that you have had a poor experience.

 

On my server its been the complete opposite. I was one of the first group to hit 50 on my server and with the small community was able to show how a well played OP dps could perform. I was invited to four different ops groups and never had a shortage of requests for Hardmode runs. People wanted me whether I was concealment or lethality and I do not think the class is bad in any way.

 

I would say just find a guild thats cool enough to let you do your thing and everything should flow from there. And yeah... I know thats easier said than done... So good luck man.

[Kaijan]

i can still do good damage in PVP on VS and alderan... but sadly i get 90% huttball.. and as much as i do like the mode, if i go anywhere near the catwalks its just " LOLBYE!" and i go flying out of the action for 20 secs till i run back. even trying to pick of stragglers, if a single ranged sees me, its pretty much over. put a dot on me. no more stealth (force dots).

 

This is largely stopped by better positioning. Be aware of who has knockbacks and their cooldowns and plan your positions accordingly. I'm fond of using tiny pillars as a preventive measure against knock backs. Also, zoom your camera out as far as the game lets you. Situational awareness is godsend.

 

As for force dots, Evasion removes them. Cloaking Screen followed immediately by an Evasion will keep you stealthed.

[stephenjohnp]

It depends on your server and how nice people are. Ultimately, DPS wise, you're useless and since it's quite easy to find another DPS they may as well replace you, but if you're a Healer, you should be fine.

[Taliknor]

Even for Lethality specs, Huttball requires you to sneak up on mobs when you are taking somebody out on a catwalk.

 

It's essentially HS, Delibitate + Shiv.

 

You then strafe so you can dot, p.nade and shoot them.

 

If you get lucky, you'll be approx. 0.5m outside their throwing range, at which point they'll stun you.

 

You then proceed to kneel down before their awesome might, so that you may probe them. The culling normally fails and you land down in that pit of doom afterwards.

[Zisa]

Every level 50 Op that I've seen (The few of them that remain) are specced heals. That tells you something.

 

We don't even want Operatives dps spec on raids any more.

[Sookster]

As for the OP, I'm really getting tired of seeing people essentially say that Operatives are useless. Are we on par for sustained DPS? No. Are we the strongest damage dealers? No. Are we balanced in any way, shape or form? No.

 

Contradict much? A good operation/HM group will pick other suitable classes for the role over an operative, therefore, yes useless. Hell even my well geared juggernaut tank get pushed aside for an assassin tank (they have BETTER defenses than jugg and can have better damage even as tank spec than jugg), nearly all the main tanks in my guild are assassin and a couple are powertechs. There's alot of work Bioware still needs to do, 2 years of beta clearly wasn't enough.

 

This is exactly like my resto shaman getting pushed over for a priest or druid for dungeons in WoW.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Sookster

[zizzefex]

This is largely stopped by better positioning. Be aware of who has knockbacks and their cooldowns and plan your positions accordingly. I'm fond of using tiny pillars as a preventive measure against knock backs. Also, zoom your camera out as far as the game lets you. Situational awareness is godsend.

 

No.... it isn't.

 

After you've completely wrecked someone 2-3 times on the catwalk because you kept in the middle and didn't get knocked off the first 2-3... they will stun you... take that extra 2 steps.... and then send you over the edge.

 

I absolutely LOVE the sorc's that now just force speed and AoE knockback me now when I keep trying to deny them the top ramps........ I mean this is largely stopped by better positioning bro.... right?

 

And don't tell me this doesn't happen often ingame. There are sorc/sages that do absolutely nothing but run up to your ramp and try to pull ball carriers to victory... making me do absolutely nothing but deny them our top catwalks all game and eventually they figure out how to knock me off the catwalk every freakin time.

[Caelrie]

We don't even want Operatives dps spec on raids any more.

 

Yah it doesn't take a genius to see why. When I play my concealment Op, we hit the enrage timers in HM FPs. When I play my sorc, we don't.

[Ahebish]

Long and short of it, you are a dps melee class or a healer. Every MMO always has an over abundance of melee because of game designs which make melee much more powerful than ranged, this game is no exception to that. As a melee class you have to shine above the rest or get lucky. On any given server you won't find a shortage Imperial side EVER of Sorcs or OPs.

 

Speak for yourself.

 

There are only 4 concealment operatives worthy of any recognition on my server I'm 1 of the 4.

 

OP healers are slightly more common but overall the class is few and far between.

 

But 85% of the server consists of Troopers/sages/sorcs/BH's/Jedi/Sith War

 

Of the old school concealments that were on my server they have disappeared.

 

Melee operatives are an endangered species on my server.

 

To the OP it's called the 50's bracket get used to it.

 

I have 500+ expertise and I don't have a problem such as you describe. The problem I have is as soon as people see I'm there I get gang beat by 3-5 people at a time. But I destroy nearly anyone I catch by themsevles and ocassionally win 2v1's by just out smarting people.

 

I get tells often, "Good your on my team." "Stop stabbing me." "I changed my spec because of you."

 

concealment/scrapper has the highest learning curve of any class in the game anyone who tells you otherwise is full of it.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Ahebish

[Ahebish]

Yah it doesn't take a genius to see why. When I play my concealment Op, we hit the enrage timers in HM FPs. When I play my sorc, we don't.

 

When we hit energy walls you don't either. Which is way to common for concealments.

 

They need to up our regen by a lot since they won't up our spike at least give us some DPS to work with.

 

It's especially bad against healers who can out heal our DPS it's a joke. We have 1 ef'ing interrupt every 12 seconds that gives a healer 8 seconds of healing time while we sit at low energy for 45 seconds.

 

That's balance really it is.

 

Side note: I do run raids 16man HM's I don't know why but my guild insists on taking me for my DPS. I try to explain to them it's by far easy to handle. I've literally had to spread out my skills more just so I don't run low on energy so I can keep up a consistant amount of DPS which is far less than oh pretty much all other classes.

 

But raid boss fights like Kragga's 16 normal and HM on the droid boss is where an operative shines most. Because of the damage increase we get after popping his shield is when I blow my wad on the boss and it makes a difference.

 

That being said I'm also 1 of 2 concealment ops in our guild of 113 members who runs raids for DPS.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Ahebish

[Kaijan]

Contradict much? A good operation/HM group will pick other suitable classes for the role over an operative, therefore, yes useless. Hell even my well geared juggernaut tank get pushed aside for an assassin tank (they have BETTER defenses than jugg and can have better damage even as tank spec than jugg), nearly all the main tanks in my guild are assassin and a couple are powertechs. There's alot of work Bioware still needs to do, 2 years of beta clearly wasn't enough.

 

This is exactly like my resto shaman getting pushed over for a priest or druid for dungeons in WoW.

 

It's a rhetoric technique, Sook, in which one acknowledges the flaws of an issue before discussing the merits in an attempt to inform readers that they are perfectly aware of the issues. It is not contradiction. I'm attempting to convey that, yes, we have significant issues that need to be addressed, but useless means no use at all. It implies instead that you are dead weight in any capacity you attempt to fill. We are not dead weight. We are simply not up to par. And if you recall, it took WoW a long time to make Druids work as well, but they became desired in the end.

 

No.... it isn't.

 

After you've completely wrecked someone 2-3 times on the catwalk because you kept in the middle and didn't get knocked off the first 2-3... they will stun you... take that extra 2 steps.... and then send you over the edge.

 

I absolutely LOVE the sorc's that now just force speed and AoE knockback me now when I keep trying to deny them the top ramps........ I mean this is largely stopped by better positioning bro.... right?

 

And don't tell me this doesn't happen often ingame. There are sorc/sages that do absolutely nothing but run up to your ramp and try to pull ball carriers to victory... making me do absolutely nothing but deny them our top catwalks all game and eventually they figure out how to knock me off the catwalk every freakin time.

 

Largely =/= entirely. Good sorcs will definitely combat the issue in this way. You cannot stop every knock back, and you can't stop every situation, but you can avoid many of them, especially considering the sheer number of sorcs/assassins that just use the knockback the moment they can to knock enemies off the ledge.

 

I'm not saying that everything can be avoided, Chief. I'm saying that since I started working on positioning, the issues have been greatly minimized to the point where it's an occurrence that happens to me only 1/4th of the time.

[Sevrent]

Yeah what she said. We all need to L2P.

[XplaguesX]

Yeah what she said. We all need to L2P.

 

i think BW just needs to look at the op, and fix it. hell, put it back to what it was before they nerfed the crap out of it.

 

My main, whos a jugg tank spec can kill most of the ops i see in the game.. and if i dont feel like a fight, i just force push them away and their gone for 30 secs.

[vonklaun]

Ugh- this is the suff I didn't want to read when I came into this subforum.

 

My Op is 29 and after having taken a break and lvl'd a sorceror to about the same lvl- playing as th Op again seemed painful.

 

I don't even really like the sorceror class, but it's easy as feck to pve/pvp and uses light armor so I can try and rock the social sets.

 

I DO like the vibe of the Op very much, and being concelment spec'd makes the NON-HUTTBALL warzones a lot of fun. But the PVE is a comparative pain in the arse compared to my main (BH powertech) and the sorceror.

 

And the more I read the more I get the impression that things really aren't ever going to get that much better. Waaaaaaaaah!

[Ich_Bin]

No.... it isn't.

 

After you've completely wrecked someone 2-3 times on the catwalk because you kept in the middle and didn't get knocked off the first 2-3... they will stun you... take that extra 2 steps.... and then send you over the edge.

 

I absolutely LOVE the sorc's that now just force speed and AoE knockback me now when I keep trying to deny them the top ramps........ I mean this is largely stopped by better positioning bro.... right?

 

And don't tell me this doesn't happen often ingame. There are sorc/sages that do absolutely nothing but run up to your ramp and try to pull ball carriers to victory... making me do absolutely nothing but deny them our top catwalks all game and eventually they figure out how to knock me off the catwalk every freakin time.

 

Truer words have seldom been uttered.

 

In Huttball we are just the fat kid from school that always got picked last. In Alderaan and Voidstar we are still moderately useful but still any of the other DPS classes can do a better job.

[Ich_Bin]

Ugh- this is the suff I didn't want to read when I came into this subforum.

 

My Op is 29 and after having taken a break and lvl'd a sorceror to about the same lvl- playing as th Op again seemed painful.

 

I don't even really like the sorceror class, but it's easy as feck to pve/pvp and uses light armor so I can try and rock the social sets.

 

I DO like the vibe of the Op very much, and being concelment spec'd makes the NON-HUTTBALL warzones a lot of fun. But the PVE is a comparative pain in the arse compared to my main (BH powertech) and the sorceror.

 

And the more I read the more I get the impression that things really aren't ever going to get that much better. Waaaaaaaaah!

 

They are definitely not going any better until our class gets fixed.

However you have the best time still ahead of you... Around lvl 35 I think you pick up some great skills for pvp. But you gotta enjoy that precious time because it only lasts up to lvl 49.

There is a reason why you hardly see any Scrapper Scoundrels/Concealment Operatives anymore (and have never seen Lethalities/Dirty Fighters to begin with).

[zizzefex]

Largely =/= entirely. Good sorcs will definitely combat the issue in this way. You cannot stop every knock back, and you can't stop every situation, but you can avoid many of them, especially considering the sheer number of sorcs/assassins that just use the knockback the moment they can to knock enemies off the ledge.

 

I'm not saying that everything can be avoided, Chief. I'm saying that since I started working on positioning, the issues have been greatly minimized to the point where it's an occurrence that happens to me only 1/4th of the time.

 

Play some Battlemasters and not just lolIlum BM's. When ranked comes out you'll be doing jack squat because if your actually winning and playing better players they will be sending you over the edge non-stop because there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it.

 

Nothing is worse than watching a Sorc/Sage in huttball break off from the group, pop his shield, sprint through the fire.... because you know for a fact that guy is trying to noob his way to victory. And no... you can't deny it if they are in full PvP gear. They will get back up with at least half their health left, throw you over the ledge, and then pull their way to victory.

[fixit]

Play on Harbringer too....majority Ops are conceal and subsequently chasing/ganking the few heal ops around ALL GAME LONG. Why? Cus heal ops are free kill to you guys. I asked a top conceal ops why he chases me all game and he pretty much said: cus heal ops are the easiest to lock down and take out. This applies to all DPS cus once they know I am healing, they ALL turn around...forget the objective and pwn my face full duration while totally ignoring any other heal class. Infact it's won games for me, having the whole damn team chase me around like benny hill. That's the only advantage I can see to playing a heal ops. I certainly have crap dps, crap healing, and even worse survivability. Why bother.

 

I have full BM gear yet it's tissue paper. WET tissue paper.

 

Love it when conceal ops think heal ops are fine, of course they are! Who else would you get a guarenteed kill on without em being able to even fight back! Your damage got nerfed, well....SO DID MINE! Along with surge + next patch my only way to stop caps with dot nerf.

 

Not renewing. One less heal ops soon!

 

p.s. Sorc KDs are impossible to avoid. They have two, one of which causes zero resolve and roots you. Plus it can be controlled by simply removing the sheild manually. This can be chained with other mezs and you can literally lock/send people flying endlessly. Sure you can position yourself when 1v1ing, but like to point out that 1v1ing rarely if ever happens in WZs. So you managed to not get sent into the pit on that first sorc....that other sorc behind you will finish the job.

Edited March 2, 2012 by fixit

[Ich_Bin]

Play on Harbringer too....majority Ops are conceal and subsequently chasing/ganking the few heal ops around ALL GAME LONG. Why? Cus heal ops are free kill to you guys. I asked a top conceal ops why he chases me all game and he pretty much said: cus you are the easiest to lock down and take out. This applies to all DPS cus once they know I am healing, they ALL turn around...forget the objective and pwn my face full duration while totally ignoring any other heal class. Infact it's won games for me, having the whole damn team chase me around like benny hill. That's the only advantage I can see to playing a heal ops. I certainly have crap dps, crap healing, and even worse survivability. Why bother.

 

I have full BM gear yet it's tissue paper.

 

Love it when conceal ops think heal ops are fine, of course they are! Who else would you get a guarenteed kill on without em being able to even fight back! Your damage got nerf, well....SO DID MINE!

 

Not renewing. One less heal ops soon!

 

p.s. Sorc KDs are impossible to avoid. They have two, one of which causes zero resolve and roots you. This can be chained with other mezs and you can literally lock people out endlessly.

 

I never said that healing Ops/Scos are "fine". I just said that healing or healing/dd hybrid specs are doing better than our damage specs (that do very bad) right now.

 

That does not imply that we do great as healer. Just not as bad as we do as damage dealers.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Ich_Bin