Performance issues linked to BW's Engine or Customers "Low end Pcs"

[LogicalPremise]

I think those that can are actually playing the game and not posting on the forums.

 

I find that, at best, spurious and at worst deliberate hyperbole.

 

You are asserting that there is no one who can run the game without problems that doesn't participate in the boards or look at the FPS issues.

 

I can sustain around 38 to 40 FPS on Ilum in a 10 on 10 fight. It's not really irritating, but again, not only do I have a monstrous $3000 rig but I am rolling on a T1. I haven't really weighed into the FPS debates much before today, and I'm not doing so now because of any effect on me personally, but because I dislike chop-logic.

 

And that's what most of these statements are. We know most of the issues with FPS are in PVP , Ilum and the occasional 16-man raid towards the end. We know these are very vocal groups about all manner of things. And we know that with all the QQ on these forums that the big Three complaints (FPS-ability delay/nerfs/faction balance) get splashed all over the place.

 

Yet none of these people -- not one -- can post anything backing up what Bioware is stating?

 

My own personal situation makes it pretty plain that if the issue is primarily that of the client side, and the engine is well optimized, that anyone with complaints should be in the minority. We see plenty of people saying "I have no FPS issues in the fleet". We see plenty of people saying "I have no ability delay". We have plenty of people saying " I can run with full shadows and AA and get no lag".

 

We have no one at all , ever, stating "I can run PVP 10 v 10 or 15 vs 15 with 50 FPS". I find the probability that these mystical good-gaming-experience people are simply too enthralled with PVP to bother to post on the forums ... ahem, unlikely to say the least.

[Sangnz]

There are 20v20 battles on Ilum?

Talk about trying to prove the impossible !

Edited February 29, 2012 by Sangnz

[Aelexx]

Would love to see proof of this aswell. I constantly see people claim they don't have any performance issues. I guess it depends on what standards you have, personally I feel it gets choppy and less enjoyable when it gets down to 20-30. I'm used to 60+ from other games.

 

I know nobody needs to proove anything, they aren't the ones with the burden of proof but just to end it once and for all, would be intresting to see if they can back up their claims or if they are just defending this game for whatever reasons.

 

I don't think anyone can though because it's an engine problem like many have said already.

[Syylara]

I just recently built a new machine ( 6 core amd fx 6100 , 8 gigs of ram , 2 TB hd , radeon 6770 hd ) , I don't have an ultimate gaming rig , but I built it myself for $700 and its like playing a new game . I do think the vast majority of the problem lies with bad machines . I didn't realize how much of a difference upgrading made for playing this but things I had chalked up to bugs , graphics issues , fps issues , have all but vanished .

 

Phenom II X6 1100T

8GB Corsair DDR3 10600 (dual-channel, low timings)

64GB SATA 6Gb/s SSD for OS and core apps (browser, flash, java, VLC, etc)

2x750GB SATA 6Gb/s 7200RPM 32MB cache in RAID 0 for programs (TOR, Sony Vegas, GIMP 2, OpenOffice, etc)

Radeon HD 6870

 

I have anti-virus software, regularly scan for malware (always do custom install, people! :9) and have a weekly scheduled defrag of the RAID.

 

If I press the spacebar to jump and instantly hit inventory or character sheet, the image hangs. If I am in combat with more than half a dozen people on screen, it gets choppy.

 

I can play other modern, high-demand games with only the most occasional issue at high settings. I can edit and render 20+ minute videos in full widescreen HD (1920x1080) without a hitch.

 

Simple troubleshooting theory leads me to believe it is not my PC that is the problem, here. The issues happen reliably in exactly one program.

 

When I open my task manager while the game is running, I always find that one core gets slammed to almost constant 100% usage, another floating around 50-70% depending on activities engaged in and 4 cores sitting idle.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Syylara

[grucho]

If only thing you do is leveling alt then yes no fps issues. Go to Ilum and taste max 10-20 fps!

[Gorcha]

I have a new rig just for this game and Ilum is a slide show on 17+. And when there is a notification that an assault point is taken or lost, game stops for 2 secs, when I'm in a pvp battle ofc. Not when it's a ghost town that my server is nowadays. Edited February 29, 2012 by Gorcha

[Rotny]

Phenom II X6 1100T

8GB Corsair DDR3 10600 (dual-channel, low timings)

64GB SATA 6Gb/s SSD for OS and core apps (browser, flash, java, VLC, etc)

2x750GB SATA 6Gb/s 7200RPM 32MB cache in RAID 0 for programs (TOR, Sony Vegas, GIMP 2, OpenOffice, etc)

Radeon HD 6870

 

I have anti-virus software, regularly scan for malware (always do custom install, people! :9) and have a weekly scheduled defrag of the RAID.

 

If I press the spacebar to jump and instantly hit inventory or character sheet, the image hangs. If I am in combat with more than half a dozen people on screen, it gets choppy.

 

I can play other modern, high-demand games with only the most occasional issue at high settings. I can edit and render 20+ minute videos in full widescreen HD (1920x1080) without a hitch.

 

Simple troubleshooting theory leads me to believe it is not my PC that is the problem, here. The issues happen reliably in exactly one program.

 

When I open my task manager while the game is running, I always find that one core gets slammed to almost constant 100% usage, another floating around 50-70% depending on activities engaged in and 4 cores sitting idle.

 

People in the know, know what this means. I'm assuming Bioware is in the know as well. Now if only they would fess up and let us know they're fixing it... like soon... like in the next month or so... or else... or else what? Exactly.

[SBite]

The guys who are playing with fantastic FPS and enjoying their time are too busy playing the game to read your request.

 

So you admit you are not one of them? That just comes to prove his point that you got crappy FPS on Ilum too

[Hillfort]

Maybe Bioware should post up footage of the game running on the minimum specs and then on a variety of systems (especially branded ones out of the box and just updated). Let them put there money where there mouth is! Edited February 29, 2012 by Hillfort

[Terko_Koslah]

I'm still waiting for that video. What a failure... Maybe one of the devs could sent us a cool vid...

[smexymage]

I see what the OP is trying to say, and many people have blamed the games issues on the Hero engine. personally I couldn't say either way but what I do feel is important to flag up is that you dont need to have 60 FPS for the game to be playable.

 

30+ is sufficient.

[elitebomberX]

I'm really looking forward to seeing a video of large scale battle on Ilum with over 30 FPS. I'd also want to see the computer specs.

 

I'm running quad core, 16GB RAM, 2GB video memory and my computer takes a giant diarrhea dump on Ilum when Inquistors start AOE spamming.

 

All of my coworkers with similar gaming rig setups have the same issue.

 

This game engine reminds me a lot of the engine from the original Supreme Commander RTS. All the top computers of the time struggled greatly under high load (4 v 4). Eventually they admitted the game engine needed a lot of optimization. When they released the sequel (Supreme Commander 2) they reworked a lot of of the engine and got performance up. I just hope we don't have to wait for an expansion or sequel to see performance improvements.

[Goretzu]

He's got a point, though. By all indications, the issue's down to an interaction effect - it's not down to the engine alone, but rather, some interaction between that and specific pieces of hardware and/or running processes (even so specific as who manufactured a given ATI card, for example), which makes it pretty nasty to isolate and fix.

 

Meanwhile, poorly optimized engines can run well on given machines due to the specifics of those machines. In other words, you're seeking proof of nothing.

 

And for reference, I don't personally build my machines to a 60 frame standard as a budget thing, so I'd be the wrong one to look to for such a video. Frankly, I would very much disagree with the notion that a game must deliver 60 frames at even it's very more taxing elements - 30 is quite sufficient for the vast majority of the population.

 

 

 

I don't know anyone that runs Ilum well and many of those people have PCs that handled up to 400 vs 400 in WAR.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Goretzu

[Rami__]

Phenom II X6 1100T

8GB Corsair DDR3 10600 (dual-channel, low timings)

64GB SATA 6Gb/s SSD for OS and core apps (browser, flash, java, VLC, etc)

2x750GB SATA 6Gb/s 7200RPM 32MB cache in RAID 0 for programs (TOR, Sony Vegas, GIMP 2, OpenOffice, etc)

Radeon HD 6870

 

I have anti-virus software, regularly scan for malware (always do custom install, people! :9) and have a weekly scheduled defrag of the RAID.

 

If I press the spacebar to jump and instantly hit inventory or character sheet, the image hangs. If I am in combat with more than half a dozen people on screen, it gets choppy.

 

I can play other modern, high-demand games with only the most occasional issue at high settings. I can edit and render 20+ minute videos in full widescreen HD (1920x1080) without a hitch.

 

ATI hasn't released a new driver set since mid Jan (12.1) and I expect a raft of improvements for SWTOR to be included in their next batch, although I find their notes not as helpful as Nvidia's for game specific points

 

Nvidia released it's latest patch on 21/2 but that was focussed on Skyrim fixes it seems and no SWTOR fixes yet. I'd keep an eye on the beta driver page as I expect specifics there in the next few weeks.

 

The GPU drivers haven't begun to tweak for this game yet, so improvements are a given over time. This is not something to do with the game creator, it's to do with the GPU manufacturers' release schedules for drivers. If anything, lobby your relevant GPU forums to get some changes into the next driver set.

 

Simple troubleshooting theory leads me to believe it is not my PC that is the problem, here. The issues happen reliably in exactly one program.

 

When I open my task manager while the game is running, I always find that one core gets slammed to almost constant 100% usage, another floating around 50-70% depending on activities engaged in and 4 cores sitting idle.

 

See my response in http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=329526&page=61

 

Send a DXdiag, you should not be showing the issues you have. What driver version? You should not have issues with other games at high settings either.

 

SSD/RAID setup has no impact on real-time issues like freezing on jumping as we're talking memory resident here, if you need disk IO you wouldn't be running this game at all. Your motherboard spec might be relevant but doubtful.

 

Use process explorer or a similar program to profile the game's memory and cpu usage. Note that you want to be IN the game for this and log it to review afterward. Tabbing out of a 3D application will usually mean it no longer has a hold on the resources and you will not be seeing it's normal behaviour.

 

In your particular case I suspect it's either a very aggressive AV, GPU and driver combo or a combination of multiple/all of the above. Under no conditions should you be freezing up, unless maybe on 40 people Ilum on max settings (I too notice some drop in FPS there).

[mufutiz]

what proof are you waiting for?

the game engine and coding sucks.

that's all there is no know and it can be proven by starting up the game and playing it...

 

try repeatedly spamming the keybind for any random ui element like inventory, character panel, codex, map, etc. Watch your fps and keep telling yourself "Must be my computer"

 

everyone claiming otherwise is a) ignorant (enjoy your totally smooth Ilum gameplay at 20 fps, bro), b) trolling, c) crazy and eco-unfriendly enough to be running quad-gpu setups that don't experience much of a slow down

Edited February 29, 2012 by mufutiz

[Nippon]

All im asking for is PROOF that you people saying "oh well i dont have any performance issues, get better hardware" I want you to go to Ilum and make a video of a 20v20 fight and make sure you have ur FPS showing, I guarantee NOT one person can run over 60 FPS, NOT one. This engine that BW is running DOES need work, stop blaming performance issues on there hardware.

 

I only made this thread because someone made a post about how BWs engine needs work, and everyone flamed the guy saying "they have no problems and the OP needs to fix his hardware

 

Again I want to see a reply with a 10v10 or more Ilum battle with 60+ FPS...... Prove us wrong.

 

Went to Ilum ONCE, was in a 20v20 fight....Had 55-60 fps constant....My rig is awesome...

 

Will I do it again...No.

 

PVP sucks full stop in SWTOR, and Most MMO's IMHO.

 

So as an answer to your OP.

 

I couldn't care less, the game runs fine for what I do.

[mufutiz]

Went to Ilum ONCE, was in a 20v20 fight....Had 55-60 fps constant....My rig is awesome...

 

Doubtful to say the least. Your rig is pretty average as well, I am sure. (a wild guess maybe, but in my experience their physical endowment is not the only thing men tend to severely overestimate)

 

Will I do it again...No.

 

even if you wanted to - you probably could not.

 

PVP sucks full stop in SWTOR, and Most MMO's IMHO.

 

That's your opinion, all right. There is probably an explanation for how it was formed though (hint: in most cases there is indeed some sucking involved but it's usually not the pvp system itself)

 

 

I couldn't care less, the game runs fine for what I do.

 

and yet you not only read the thread but respond to it? I don't know about you but from a distance, yes it looks like you might actually care less

 

I swear, these forums never cease to amaze. I thought I had the principle behind general disinterest and indifference figured out but I learned a lot here, a lot!!

Edited February 29, 2012 by mufutiz

[Aepervius]

Went to Ilum ONCE, was in a 20v20 fight....Had 55-60 fps constant....My rig is awesome...

 

Will I do it again...No.

 

PVP sucks full stop in SWTOR, and Most MMO's IMHO.

 

So as an answer to your OP.

 

I couldn't care less, the game runs fine for what I do.

 

Well apparently you could care less : by not responding to thread at all. So your "I couldn't care less" is wrong.

 

Secondly "I got 60 fps" without any video showing it off, seriously ? I wish when I did QM research i could have offered that to my peer as evidence...

[Toweleeeie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6wQuwY1J-k&feature=youtu.be

[Invictos]

Would love to see proof of this aswell. I constantly see people claim they don't have any performance issues. I guess it depends on what standards you have, personally I feel it gets choppy and less enjoyable when it gets down to 20-30. I'm used to 60+ from other games.

 

I know nobody needs to proove anything, they aren't the ones with the burden of proof but just to end it once and for all, would be intresting to see if they can back up their claims or if they are just defending this game for whatever reasons.

 

I don't think anyone can though because it's an engine problem like many have said already.

 

It's not about burden of proof, IMO. The issue is that SWTOR's performance problems are largely situational; if someone never goes to PvP or doesn't monitor his FPS in general, he might dismiss any perceived hitches as unimportant. What constitutes "good enough" performance is, after all, subjective.

 

There are currently a lot of people on the forums who post glowing (and unsolicited) testimonials about their rig's performance in various complaint threads, but in weeks of combing the forums for potential solutions I have literally never seen a video or even a screen shot showing high FPS in any of the game's notorious trouble spots.

 

So in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I'm forced at this point to assume that those people are experiencing the same problem(s), but they either don't realize it or don't care. They obviously don't have to prove to me or to anyone else that they get great performance out of the game, but you'd think by this point that someone would have posted something by way of proof, if only in the spirit of furthering our understanding of the problem.

[FalcoLombardi]

Just gonna say the difference between 30ish-35+ and 60 isn't much

[FalcoLombardi]

what proof are you waiting for?

the game engine and coding sucks.

that's all there is no know and it can be proven by starting up the game and playing it...

 

try repeatedly spamming the keybind for any random ui element like inventory, character panel, codex, map, etc. Watch your fps and keep telling yourself "Must be my computer"

 

everyone claiming otherwise is a) ignorant (enjoy your totally smooth Ilum gameplay at 20 fps, bro), b) trolling, c) crazy and eco-unfriendly enough to be running quad-gpu setups that don't experience much of a slow down

 

What's crazy about using a quad-gpu setup that doesn't experience much of a slow down? And who cares if it's "eco-unfriendly"?

[Vulgarr]

I can't post this "proof." Not because my computer can not handle it, but because there is no such think as 20v20 battles on Ilum. I want you to post proof that such a thing exists.

yes there are.

[Vulgarr]

And, now we have yet another person who mistakenly believes that system-involved issues can only be a matter of specs.

well i dont know about that, but i get the same framerates as that video on a single 580.

[Vulgarr]

Lol go get your jollys off on a text book bro.

the funny thing is i have textbooks that get better FPS than ilum during peak times.