Jedi Knight: I run from Operatives

[Dawginole]

I run from Operatives. I'm Easy Prey for them. And it is extremely frustrating to be caught by one. I don't understand why a Sentinel Combat class has to press about 10-15 buttons to build up 30 Centering just to get to the point where I can then start seeing good burst dmg with Zen/Blade Rush and my opponent Operative goes: Invis > stun > "back stab" equivalent > "back stab" for 6k dmg and at this point has a CD'd stun and repeats stun > "back stab" > "back stab" > I'm dead.

 

***?

 

Burst dmg from Combat spec or even dots from Watchman is worthless when it takes 30-45 seconds to get there, you have no defense, and other dps classes could have killed you four times over by the time you build up to your "amazing" burst dmg.

 

This is not a QQ post about Operatives being overpowered. Whatever, more power to the class, I'll just continue to avoid them. It's just more evidence to me that BW royally threw sents/marauders under a bus when it comes to melee dps in pvp.

 

lvl47, all purple leveled gear, i.e. the necessary pre-requisite to the usual "update your gear" bs.

[StroyentMaster]

If you are running in Combat/Carnage spec you are doing it wrong. Anni/Watch spec is by far the best spec. Marauders are one of the strongest 1v1 classes in the game. Hit 50, gear up, then come back here saying we're underpowered.

[aZShiftyZa]

Apparently you haven't seen Mara dmg when they're geared. I don't play a Mara but I know the BM marauders are nasty. They hit harder than anything else except maybe an operative but if the operative doesn't catch me while he's stealthed, I'm not at all worried.

 

I've heard they're very gear dependent and I see that b/c the guys in full champ and bm are nasty. Once you get your expertise gear at 50 and assuming you know how to pvp (much different then pve) you'll be fine.

[Howbadisbad]

Running away is a pretty legit counter to Operatives. It's not like they can stop you once you are 10m away...

[Rheeling]

Go Watchman spec. You don't have to have to be in Zen to do good damage. Once you are Zenned though, you'll do fantastic damage.

 

Plus, if you spec properly, you'll hit 30 centering more often than you know what to do with.

[Dawginole]

If you are running in Combat/Carnage spec you are doing it wrong. Anni/Watch spec is by far the best spec. Marauders are one of the strongest 1v1 classes in the game. Hit 50, gear up, then come back here saying we're underpowered.

 

Hard for this this to matter when you're squishy and your opponent does 6k dmg in 3 seconds.

[Rheeling]

Hard for this this to matter when you're squishy and your opponent does 6k dmg in 3 seconds.

 

I leveled my Marauder basically through 50% PvP, so I had plenty of experience with Ops in the lowbie bracket.

 

Yeah, they can be tough to take down, but it's still a totally fair fight. A really good Concealment Op will be the hardest 1v1 you have. Maybe tied with a tank specced Assassin. But it's still pretty doable.

 

EDIT: This is with my Annihilation/Watchman spec. I haven't even tried the Carnage/Combat tree.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Rheeling

[ShizuXIII]

EDIT: I'm talking about the lv50 bracket, obviously.

 

I'm really tired of forum queens pulling random numbers out of their back orifices.

 

I'm a scoundrel (V57, full champ) and here is the rotation, wich require stealth AND positioning:

 

- shoot first. The class' main attack. The burst class' main attack. The opener from stealth. Should be an automatic 2.5k medal, right? Wrong. If often hits between 2k and 3k. Hits over 4k are RARE. Forget the 5k medal, unless hitting a 0% exp target with all buffs and consumables up.

 

- back blast. Highest hits are between 2.5k and 3k. Sometimes I get the 2.5k medal with this before getting it with my OMGWTFQQIMBA opener.

 

- 1 or 2 sucker punches hitting for 2k each if I'm lucky.

 

 

This is the uber-burst rotation. When it's over, the scoundrel starts hitting like a wet noodle with stuff like blaster whip to refresh the upper hand.

 

 

Or he can vanish if he isn't dotted (fat chance) and re-start the rotation. Vanish has a 3 min CD (2 if talented).

In that case, yes, scoundrels have a pretty good "delayed burst".

THE HORROR AND BLASPHEMY OF THIS. The burst class, with literally no other roles if specced for it, can burst most targets to low health with a 2 min cd.

Shocking, isn't it?

Edited February 27, 2012 by ShizuXIII

[Quantum]

I run from Operatives. I'm Easy Prey for them. And it is extremely frustrating to be caught by one. I don't understand why a Sentinel Combat class has to press about 10-15 buttons to build up 30 Centering just to get to the point where I can then start seeing good burst dmg with Zen/Blade Rush and my opponent Operative goes: Invis > stun > "back stab" equivalent > "back stab" for 6k dmg and at this point has a CD'd stun and repeats stun > "back stab" > "back stab" > I'm dead.

 

***?

 

Burst dmg from Combat spec or even dots from Watchman is worthless when it takes 30-45 seconds to get there, you have no defense, and other dps classes could have killed you four times over by the time you build up to your "amazing" burst dmg.

 

This is not a QQ post about Operatives being overpowered. Whatever, more power to the class, I'll just continue to avoid them. It's just more evidence to me that BW royally threw sents/marauders under a bus when it comes to melee dps in pvp.

 

lvl47, all purple leveled gear, i.e. the necessary pre-requisite to the usual "update your gear" bs.

 

Funny I just turn around and slap them in the face with a Lightsaber.... If you live past their initial burst (which is very possible) they will have to run, they can't stand up to a Sent/Marauder more than a few seconds. I'll even pop my CC breaker just to ruin their day because their tears are so tasty.

[GregoriusMaximus]

What seriously?

 

Sentinel ***** operative, it's the best 1v1 class ever lol! Especially if you throw up your shields and they waste their burst on you then.

Edited February 27, 2012 by GregoriusMaximus

[Evuke]

A sentinel running away from an operative = a fail sentinel

 

a sentinel can kill ANY class in the game if they know how to play

[Reenolols]

No. My 27 mara ***** on 40+ ops. You should be having trouble with nothing at 47.

[dunkelhaar]

I leveled my Marauder basically through 50% PvP, so I had plenty of experience with Ops in the lowbie bracket.

 

Yeah, they can be tough to take down, but it's still a totally fair fight. A really good Concealment Op will be the hardest 1v1 you have. Maybe tied with a tank specced Assassin. But it's still pretty doable.

 

EDIT: This is with my Annihilation/Watchman spec. I haven't even tried the Carnage/Combat tree.

 

a sin tank with pvp dps gear? unkillable solo

[Rheeling]

a sin tank with pvp dps gear? unkillable solo

 

The ones wearing that Stalker gear?

 

I haven't been up against too many of those. But the ones who I could tell were tank specced, but were clearly wearing dps gear make me pop everything I have. Healing consumables, Expertise, everything. And I still lose to them more often than not.

 

Last time I remember going against one, I was about to beat him, then he mezzed me, vanished, and started Seething. I was so mad, and so proud because he was the first one I had ever witnessed doing that. Needless to say, after he regained 30% of his health he rolled me.

[DrekorSilverfang]

Pebkac

[Foxcolt]

Protip: when being attacked by an operative you should.

 

A, make a post on the forums

 

B, Do anything else i.e. Smash face on keyboard and hope to hit one of our 2342342342 defensive cooldowns to survive initial burst.

 

 

Winning = B

Edited February 27, 2012 by Foxcolt

[kaya]

I play combat too and i run from operatives for different reasons than you.

One we dont have dots so theres nothing stopping them from vanishing and running or opening on you a second time.

Two if they've opened on me then hes just become largely irrelevant - the damage is done and im not particularly worried about anything else he'll get done before he or i die (or he vanishes). I just hit them and force leap to a target far away so he's stuck in combat.

 

1v1 they have a pretty good chance of beating combat - combat is nowhere near as strong as watchman 1v1 and it takes pretty godly timing and predicting to get cauterize on them before they vanish. If they get two openers off then im dead, end of.

[Migrayn]

I run from Operatives. I'm Easy Prey for them. And it is extremely frustrating to be caught by one. I don't understand why a Sentinel Combat class has to press about 10-15 buttons to build up 30 Centering just to get to the point where I can then start seeing good burst dmg with Zen/Blade Rush and my opponent Operative goes: Invis > stun > "back stab" equivalent > "back stab" for 6k dmg and at this point has a CD'd stun and repeats stun > "back stab" > "back stab" > I'm dead.

 

***?

 

Burst dmg from Combat spec or even dots from Watchman is worthless when it takes 30-45 seconds to get there, you have no defense, and other dps classes could have killed you four times over by the time you build up to your "amazing" burst dmg.

 

This is not a QQ post about Operatives being overpowered. Whatever, more power to the class, I'll just continue to avoid them. It's just more evidence to me that BW royally threw sents/marauders under a bus when it comes to melee dps in pvp.

 

lvl47, all purple leveled gear, i.e. the necessary pre-requisite to the usual "update your gear" bs.

 

Backstab has a 9s cooldown, so i hardly think they did backstab backstab. If they did then you plenty of time in between to fight back.

[rgizzie]

EDIT: I'm talking about the lv50 bracket, obviously.

 

I'm really tired of forum queens pulling random numbers out of their back orifices.

 

I'm a scoundrel (V57, full champ) and here is the rotation, wich require stealth AND positioning:

 

- shoot first. The class' main attack. The burst class' main attack. The opener from stealth. Should be an automatic 2.5k medal, right? Wrong. If often hits between 2k and 3k. Hits over 4k are RARE. Forget the 5k medal, unless hitting a 0% exp target with all buffs and consumables up.

 

- back blast. Highest hits are between 2.5k and 3k. Sometimes I get the 2.5k medal with this before getting it with my OMGWTFQQIMBA opener.

 

- 1 or 2 sucker punches hitting for 2k each if I'm lucky.

 

 

This is the uber-burst rotation. When it's over, the scoundrel starts hitting like a wet noodle with stuff like blaster whip to refresh the upper hand.

 

 

Or he can vanish if he isn't dotted (fat chance) and re-start the rotation. Vanish has a 3 min CD (2 if talented).

In that case, yes, scoundrels have a pretty good "delayed burst".

THE HORROR AND BLASPHEMY OF THIS. The burst class, with literally no other roles if specced for it, can burst most targets to low health with a 2 min cd.

Shocking, isn't it?

 

I think the issue for me with you guys is when you knock us down you can hit us like 2-3 times in a row before we can even get back up. I am a lvl 50 shadow and I have a knock down from stealth but I am lucky to get one hit in before people get up. You hits are almost instant back to back to back. So when I get up I am already below 50% in most cases and you have to really suck to not be able to finish me off.

[Dawginole]

EDIT: I'm talking about the lv50 bracket, obviously.

 

I'm really tired of forum queens pulling random numbers out of their back orifices.

 

I'm a scoundrel (V57, full champ) and here is the rotation, wich require stealth AND positioning:

 

- shoot first. The class' main attack. The burst class' main attack. The opener from stealth. Should be an automatic 2.5k medal, right? Wrong. If often hits between 2k and 3k. Hits over 4k are RARE. Forget the 5k medal, unless hitting a 0% exp target with all buffs and consumables up.

 

- back blast. Highest hits are between 2.5k and 3k. Sometimes I get the 2.5k medal with this before getting it with my OMGWTFQQIMBA opener.

 

- 1 or 2 sucker punches hitting for 2k each if I'm lucky.

 

 

This is the uber-burst rotation. When it's over, the scoundrel starts hitting like a wet noodle with stuff like blaster whip to refresh the upper hand.

 

 

Or he can vanish if he isn't dotted (fat chance) and re-start the rotation. Vanish has a 3 min CD (2 if talented).

In that case, yes, scoundrels have a pretty good "delayed burst".

THE HORROR AND BLASPHEMY OF THIS. The burst class, with literally no other roles if specced for it, can burst most targets to low health with a 2 min cd.

Shocking, isn't it?

 

 

You realize that using your lowest numbers you just described 6k dmg to me. Strangely enough I stated they were doing roughly 6k dmg to me in about 3 seconds.

 

You use your final paragraph to bust my balls and you said the exact same thing I did. lol

[Piriste]

Hard for this this to matter when you're squishy and your opponent does 6k dmg in 3 seconds.

 

Marauders squishy? what!?

 

marauders have a ton of escape & defensive CDs.

 

c'mon!

[Dawginole]

I play combat too and i run from operatives for different reasons than you.

One we dont have dots so theres nothing stopping them from vanishing and running or opening on you a second time.

Two if they've opened on me then hes just become largely irrelevant - the damage is done and im not particularly worried about anything else he'll get done before he or i die (or he vanishes). I just hit them and force leap to a target far away so he's stuck in combat.

 

1v1 they have a pretty good chance of beating combat - combat is nowhere near as strong as watchman 1v1 and it takes pretty godly timing and predicting to get cauterize on them before they vanish. If they get two openers off then im dead, end of.

 

 

I think the issue for me with you guys is when you knock us down you can hit us like 2-3 times in a row before we can even get back up. I am a lvl 50 shadow and I have a knock down from stealth but I am lucky to get one hit in before people get up. You hits are almost instant back to back to back. So when I get up I am already below 50% in most cases and you have to really suck to not be able to finish me off.

 

UNBELIEVABLE! Two honest people that aren't Internet PvP gods that destroy everyone they fight and never have any problems. The forums might break if this keeps up...

[Digtahk]

I will say Marauders do feel a lot tougher once they get a decent set of PVP gear......I almost binned mine before 50 it felt so much weaker than the other classes.....It is worth persevering with though if you like the playstyle because as some have said they are one of the best 1 vs 1....

[Zag_Stratos]

Even combat spec, a good Mara/Sentinel can pretty much shred 2 to 3 people alone.

 

When I was early 50, I had 12K HP and around 800 Strenght. After a few days of doing dailies and getting my champion gear, I'm 16K HP, 1200 Strenght. I've been playing around with Combat spec and I have to say, if you know the good combos... you'll jump on a sniper and drop him to 1/4 health in a few crucial seconds WITHOUT any major cooldowns.

 

It's just a matter of doing it right.

 

Trust me, I know your frustration and even to this day, I still think Sentinel is a lot of work to keep it up to a decent level. We do need a major tweak and some boosts but I wouldn't go as far as saying that we're weak. We just need something that allows us to be more constant.

[Valastia]

Yeah, getting some PvP gear really does help the sent feel tougher. I would strongly suggest switching to watchman, though. I ran as combat for most of my leveling and early PvP time, but once I switched to watchman there was no going back. The DoTs are just incredible, and the sustained damage over the course of a fight is just too good to pass up. The only class I've had any trouble with in 1v1 is sniper with their frickin cover system that prevents force leap and kick. But even then it takes a full-geared, well-played sniper to take me down alone.

 

So in conclusion, don't get discouraged. And don't run away. Stand and fight. The only way to get better is to actually face the challenge enough to learn what exactly they're doing to you; then you can form strategies to defend yourself and take them down. It gets better, I promise.