1.1.5 - death of rarity and achievements?!

[Sky_walkerPL]

It seems very likely that the prices on the test server are just so people on the test server can actually purchase them and the prices when this change goes live will be adjusted.

Sorry but that's almost 100% a vain hope.

 

If they would want give items for test they would do so.

Not set prices like 1M which are way beyond reach of PTS players.

 

Remember that each time patch goes for test everything there is reset and players need to start from lvl1.

 

Besides - IMO the prices of items between 1.1.5 and 1.2 don't matter - it's still only credits and I know people who have 10M+ why me myself have roughly 3M despite of being far from hardcore player and never limiting myself with buying stuff for CRs. So... as long as price remains low and/or it remains in credits - it's extremely bad change.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL

[Yuuj]

Sorry but that's almost 100% a vain hope.

 

If they would want give items for test they would do so.

Not set prices like 1M which are way beyond reach of PTS players.

 

Remember that each time patch goes for test everything there is reset and players need to start from lvl1.

 

Besides - IMO the prices of items between 1.1.5 and 1.2 don't matter - it's still only credits and I know people who have 10M+ why me myself have roughly 3M despite of being far from hardcore player and never limiting myself with buying stuff for CRs. So... as long as price remains low and/or it remains in credits - it's extremely bad change.

 

How is that a vain hope? You just said each time a patch goes for test character level goes back down to 1. If they want people purchasing and testing these things they'll need to be able to buy them off of the vendor which means at least some of the items will have to be affordable.

 

Credits represent time spent in game, and time spent completing task (Selling items on trade market/slicing/daily quest/regular quest/etc) which equates to time investment in game.

 

If a broke raider logs in once a week, kills a boss, and receives a rare purple crystal why is he more deserving than a player who invest a week of time into gaining the credits necessary to purchase an item?

 

/mind boggled

 

Edit: MIND BOTTLED.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Yuuj

[Lethality]

How is that a vain hope? You just said each time a patch goes for test character level goes back down to 1. If they want people purchasing and testing these things they'll need to be able to buy them off of the vendor which means at least some of the items will have to be affordable.

 

Credits represent time spent in game, and time spent completing task (Selling items on trade market/slicing/daily quest/regular quest/etc) which equates to time investment in game.

 

If a broke raider logs in once a week, kills a boss, and receives a rare purple crystal why is he more deserving than a player who invest a week of time into gaining the credits necessary to purchase an item?

 

/mind boggled

 

Edit: MIND BOTTLED.

 

It rewards the task, not the time.

 

Now, if something is a "time sink" by design, that's a bit different... but credits are just another form of progress bar... and occasionally content is nerfed to let players "catch up." Just like with XP, etc.

[Sky_walkerPL]

How is that a vain hope? You just said each time a patch goes for test character level goes back down to 1. If they want people purchasing and testing these things they'll need to be able to buy them off of the vendor which means at least some of the items will have to be affordable.

And that's my point: 1M isn't affordable on PTS.

Not when the economy doesn't exist there and people aren't 50s from the start.

 

If it would be for test - prices would be 10-20k. But it obviously isn't.

 

As for the latter part of your post - sorry but I don't know what these theoretical assumptions have to the discussion or 1.1.5 patch. I'm clueless.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL

[Epixxxx]

Sorry but that's almost 100% a vain hope.

 

If they would want give items for test they would do so.

Not set prices like 1M which are way beyond reach of PTS players.

 

Remember that each time patch goes for test everything there is reset and players need to start from lvl1.

 

Besides - IMO the prices of items between 1.1.5 and 1.2 don't matter - it's still only credits and I know people who have 10M+ why me myself have roughly 3M despite of being far from hardcore player and never limiting myself with buying stuff for CRs. So... as long as price remains low and/or it remains in credits - it's extremely bad change.

 

I find your lack of intelligence disturbing.

[fixit]

How is that a vain hope? You just said each time a patch goes for test character level goes back down to 1. If they want people purchasing and testing these things they'll need to be able to buy them off of the vendor which means at least some of the items will have to be affordable.

 

Credits represent time spent in game, and time spent completing task (Selling items on trade market/slicing/daily quest/regular quest/etc) which equates to time investment in game.

 

If a broke raider logs in once a week, kills a boss, and receives a rare purple crystal why is he more deserving than a player who invest a week of time into gaining the credits necessary to purchase an item?

 

/mind boggled

 

Edit: MIND BOTTLED.

 

Or you could do what many are doing right now and operating bots to farm chests on alt accounts for 2+ mill a day, 24/7 - 7 days a week. Seriously a bot I reported 4 weeks ago is STILL there despite reporting it. Do a /who on the lvl 48+ areas and notice all the lvl 11s; they are all at a box somewhere. Heck, they are on all planets if you look enough.

 

Hard earned credits, chuckle. I have made over 3 mill just PvPin alone.

 

But w/e, they will be handing stuff out for free soon enough; this is the first step!

 

edit. also lookin like best and more easily gained PvP gear will be from raids; just slap in expertise mods. Ok...

Edited February 26, 2012 by fixit

[Mineria]

You absolutely should not have the best PVE gear by just PVPing.

Just as you cannot get the best PVP gear by raiding.

 

If you want the best PVE gear, progress through the PVE content. Same goes for PVP!

 

They really need to increase the amount of expertise on pvp gear and then lower the normal stats to balance it, making pvp gear the same as it is now (or slightly better) in pvp but weaker in pve, imo.

This is going somewhat of topic...

Elaborate why there should be a difference between PvE and PvP statswise when you still need to do a certain amount of grind to archive it?

I never got the idea why those two should be separated instead of having the whole difference based on skills with the dependance on what a character is participating in, just to have some form of balance between classes.

[JohraTon]

I find your lack of intelligence disturbing.

 

He's bang on right.

 

If you want to test something properly, you need the widest possible test sample. Pricing them at 2.5m on the test server is only going to restrict the test data they will receive for the live product.

 

If they simply wanted them in the game to check effects and get feedback they'd be practically giving them away.

 

Also, what are they testing with the Magenta schematics? They are already live so you can't seriously think that they're testing a schematic for live which is already available on the live build.

 

Personally I don't have too much of a problem having limited time sales vendors with unique items. I mean on the KOTOR games which preceded this you basically walked up to the space station round Yavin, broke up a fight and the little fella who lived there sold you both Mantle of the Force and Heart of the Guardian. That isn't the same as selling a schematic that many players have put alot of effort into obtaining.

[Sky_walkerPL]

He's bang on right.

Thank You

*bows*

 

Epixxxx - this thread is already too full of personal insults, no need to add more to the pile.

[Vlaxitov]

As someone said - I want good video game, an MMORPG, not facebook in 3D with avatar.

Some of you guys look for something else than TOR. It's called Another Life or The Sims Online or My Little Pony Friendship club. These games also have some stories and allow you to customize your persona and feel as self-cool as you want.

 

That was me who said I wan't an actual game, not facebook with an avatar. /bow

 

It just seems like almost everyone who defends free ride mmos and welfare systems where everyone gets a trophy has a really bitter eat the rich attitude when it comes to people who do better than they do in whatever game it is.

 

I don't get it. Seeing someone more accomplished than I with the goods I want to show for it is probably majority reason I stay subbed and keep logging into a mmo.

[Taroen]

So you're saying that someone who wants to play pvp only cannot have the best stuff unless they raid too?

 

If pvp gear would work the way it was intended in its entirety then you wouldn't have people mixing PVE gear with PVP gear.

 

I welcome this change.

 

If you only PvP, you should only be getting PvP gear for it. I don't see PvP gear dropping from the Operation runs. And if you only PvP, why would you need PvE gear, anyway?

 

This notion from some people that everyone "deserves" high end gear just because they paid a sub is ludicrous. The carebear crowd needs to learn that you have to actually play the game and complete content to get the rewards from that content.

 

Your sub shouldn't come with an "IWIN" button.

[Squatdog_nz]

Or you could do what many are doing right now and operating bots to farm chests on alt accounts for 2+ mill a day, 24/7 - 7 days a week. Seriously a bot I reported 4 weeks ago is STILL there despite reporting it. Do a /who on the lvl 48+ areas and notice all the lvl 11s; they are all at a box somewhere. Heck, they are on all planets if you look enough.

 

Hard earned credits, chuckle. I have made over 3 mill just PvPin alone.

 

But w/e, they will be handing stuff out for free soon enough; this is the first step!

 

edit. also lookin like best and more easily gained PvP gear will be from raids; just slap in expertise mods. Ok...

 

This.

 

LMAO@'hard-earned credits'...I currently only play the game for semi-casual PVP and have a good couple hundred thousand credits in the bank despite routinely spending it on stupid stuff I don't need (purple spaceship parts, pets, exotic speeders).

 

Making money in this game is so easy it's practically value-less.

[Arnathis]

That was me who said I wan't an actual game, not facebook with an avatar. /bow

 

It just seems like almost everyone who defends free ride mmos and welfare systems where everyone gets a trophy has a really bitter eat the rich attitude when it comes to people who do better than they do in whatever game it is.

 

I don't get it. Seeing someone more accomplished than I with the goods I want to show for it is probably majority reason I stay subbed and keep logging into a mmo.

 

It's no use, we're dealing with infantile brains here.

 

They don't understand that giving everyone an item for next to nothing devalues that item. They want it, they want it now and they don't wanna have to work for it.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Arnathis

[Yuuj]

Or you could do what many are doing right now and operating bots to farm chests on alt accounts for 2+ mill a day, 24/7 - 7 days a week. Seriously a bot I reported 4 weeks ago is STILL there despite reporting it. Do a /who on the lvl 48+ areas and notice all the lvl 11s; they are all at a box somewhere. Heck, they are on all planets if you look enough.

 

Hard earned credits, chuckle. I have made over 3 mill just PvPin alone.

 

But w/e, they will be handing stuff out for free soon enough; this is the first step!

 

edit. also lookin like best and more easily gained PvP gear will be from raids; just slap in expertise mods. Ok...

 

Discrediting the value of credits based off of botters, who aren't even legitimate players, who are farming gold is a silly argument. You don't compare the normal player base to the cheaters just like you don't compare normal civilized folks to criminals. That's just silly.

 

With that said, as someone pointed out earlier, some people view 'progressing' through operations as an achievement, and amassing X amount of gold as... a'progress bar.' They are one and the same and most MMOs these days are recognizing them as such.

 

You can sit down and argue till you are blue in the face that amazing 15 million credits is a time sink and not an achievement, but it is in fact an achievement, especially when players are complaining that they don't have enough credits to repair gear after wipes in operations.

 

If a player chooses to obtain a specific via operations and spend their credits to repair their gear as they progress through operations, that is one way to obtain a specific item.

 

If another player chooses to obtain a specific item by just accumulating credits and then purchasing the item from a vendor, that should be another option.

 

You can't tell someone how to enjoy their game. Some people enjoy amassing wealth and then spending it more than they enjoy completing content or PvPing against other players. The idea that you wouldn't want to reward these people for playing the game as they enjoy it is just silly and selfish.

 

Also, congratulations to the fella in this thread who has hundreds of thousands of credits on one of their characters. I'm closer to a million myself and have friends post the slicing nerf who have well over a million credits stored on their characters. Why do we have so many credits? Because that is how they like to play. If a big spendy purchase comes out, we want to be able to get it.

 

Flip the table around and put a special rare item for sale for 5 million credits that can't be obtained any other way and the raiders and PvPers would be demanding that it be able to be obtained through another means.

 

In WoW I got my + epic flying speed through completing the Ulduar achievement for the Protodrake. I didn't cry when someone else had the option to purchase it for 5000 gold.

 

The idea that a achievement becomes less meaningful because suddenly more people have access to it is just silly. Your accomplishment doesn't just stop existing one day because someone else got what you got. Sure, it might suck, but that is just a selfish way of looking at it.

 

A man spends his part of his life working to build up his business from scratch and accomplishes his goal of becoming a millionaire.

 

Another man wins the RNG and becomes a millionaire through the lottery.

 

Sure, it sucks that one guy had to work to earn all that money while the other guy just got lucky with a drop, but no one is going to think the guy who one the lotto is more accomplished than the man who built a business.

[JohraTon]

 

A man spends his part of his life working to build up his business from scratch and accomplishes his goal of becoming a millionaire.

 

Another man wins the RNG and becomes a millionaire through the lottery.

 

 

The problem with that analogy is the lottery winner is elevated to the status of super rich which is a target for many and is what holds the prestige.

 

By making everything accessible the prestige of the item is lowered and the value which was once attached to it an made it desirable is lost, its kind of the reverse of the lottery analogy.

 

In this case it would be like saving your whole life and buying a Ferrari, only to find a few weeks later Ferrari decide to give away thousands of cars to anyone who wants one for free. All of a sudden owning your Ferrari isn't so special any more. It by no means impacts your enjoyment of the item but the prestige of being an owner is diminished.

 

Now everyone uses the special little snowflake line all the time, but many people in MMO's like to have these carrots dangling in front of them to chase after.

[Taroen]

The problem with that analogy is the lottery winner is elevated to the status of super rich which is a target for many and is what holds the prestige.

 

By making everything accessible the prestige of the item is lowered and the value which was once attached to it an made it desirable is lost, its kind of the reverse of the lottery analogy.

 

In this case it would be like saving your whole life and buying a Ferrari, only to find a few weeks later Ferrari decide to give away thousands of cars to anyone who wants one for free. All of a sudden owning your Ferrari isn't so special any more. It by no means impacts your enjoyment of the item but the prestige of being an owner is diminished.

 

Now everyone uses the special little snowflake line all the time, but many people in MMO's like to have these carrots dangling in front of them to chase after.

 

Not to mention that the guy who actually worked to get a Ferrari gets screwed when they start giving them away for free. Why actually try to do content, when you can just sit around and whine until everything you want is given to you for free..?

[SootyTX]

Um....I skimmed through and I'm amazed the whining is still going on.

 

 

You all realise this is JUST for the PTS and not a change to the main game - its there to help testing before 1.2.

 

Hence the word 'temporary'...

 

I swear, its as if people are looking for reasons to give themselves high blood pressure....

[Squatdog_nz]

With that said, as someone pointed out earlier, some people view 'progressing' through operations as an achievement, and amassing X amount of gold as... a'progress bar.' They are one and the same and most MMOs these days are recognizing them as such.

 

Oh boy...

 

By itself, massing credits is a meaningless time sink that already has it's own reward in being able to purchase expensive market and novelty items. This is made doubly ridiculously by how easy it is to make money in SWTOR.

 

Progressing through Operations requires actual competence, organisation and playing ability. If you can't be bothered learning how to play your class and finding a competent guild, TOO BAD.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Squatdog_nz

[Squatdog_nz]

Not to mention that the guy who actually worked to get a Ferrari gets screwed when they start giving them away for free. Why actually try to do content, when you can just sit around and whine until everything you want is given to you for free..?

 

But didn't you hear?

 

Everyone should be able to 'experience the content' of owning a Ferrari, whether they work for a living or are on welfare!

[Deelow]

Seems like we're all arguing for nothing here. We can talk about it all day, but these changes are coming. I don't care either way really. I don't agree with the elitist mentality that is going around this topic though. Yeah achievement is great: Get that crystal that no one else has, get that belt no one else has, oh now it's for sale at a vendor for credits, lets say 1 million, not a lot of people are that rich either way. Either will be a symbol of status, either you will have the credits to buy it or get the recipe and make it. Who cares either way...I'll tell you: People who are hoping this will become vanilla WoW or more elitist.

 

It won't happen people, someone said it clearly before and I'll say it again for the cheap seats, it's a social era in which many of us have a life outside this game and we don't have time to spend 75-100 hours a week playing in order to get what you have, but maybe we can save up and get a taste of the ops, or if you're guild-less.....and this is the best point for this I can see:

 

Soon a combat log will be released as many want, and those who don't know anything about mmos or gearing will have to compete by looking at others and gearing appropriately. I went through this when I went back to WoW after BC in WoW to WotLK, and had no idea what I was doing. A friend had to help me understand what I needed to do, helped get me into a guild by pre-gearing me.

 

The reason for these changes leading up to the next big patch in 1.2 are essentially the elite group's fault. You want to min/max? Fine we'll make it easy for those behind to catch up. You want a combat log? We'll make it available so everyone can get it and use it.

 

Same with this gear. Stand by for more QQing, it's going to happen before every major patch....

Edited February 27, 2012 by Deelow

[Kfab]

This, exactly this.

----

The casuals who say they don't have time for mmo's, yet still play mmo's, confuse the hell out of me. You don't understand the situation because you don't play enough to understand it. And when you do play enough, you do exactly what he states above, get bored, then move on. You don't understand the concept of character development unless its told to you by a voice actor. You don't understand the concept of 'working towards a goal' as being fun to many of us. You simply buy, consume, throw away. Weeks later, you're on the next game's forums, saying how much SWTOR sucked because it got old so fast. Then you start playing that new game and wish that X was easier to get and Y was faster. You get what you ask for, get bored, then move on again. You enjoy each one less and less, and get less and less from each one.

 

/endrant

 

Oh yeah, you found me out!

 

I'm casual. I manage to carve out time to quest, work on crew skills, do a flashpoint every now and then. Those are my goals. I just don't have 40+ hours a week to put into it. I think you are painting casual gamers with a broad brush here.

[Manigma]

Um....I skimmed through and I'm amazed the whining is still going on.

 

 

You all realise this is JUST for the PTS and not a change to the main game - its there to help testing before 1.2.

 

Hence the word 'temporary'...

 

I swear, its as if people are looking for reasons to give themselves high blood pressure....

LOL if you actually believe this, if you look at the past times they put patches in test you will see they always implement all the changes regardless of feedback - it doesn't help that the PTS is so very very quiet and you can't copy your lvl 50 there to test the important stuff.

[Bionixx]

this will only bother people with mentality like this: "i've got it the hard way so noone else should have it easier"

 

if anything - it should matter only to you that you got it the hard way, leave the rest alone

 

I kind of disagree. I think hardcore players, be it PvE or PvP should be entitled to some rare vanity items for the time/skill put into the game. These shouldn't be unobtainable for the rest of the people but at least when a patch is new they should. Let's say I kill nightmare Soa. I should have a rare mount that is just the same speed as the highest speed mounts (not faster). And casual players will eventually be able to get it as well, in a couple of patches when they severely outgear the place. Because really, if not for the bragging rights, why would I even raid on higher difficulty modes?

[daMarek]

Ok I think a lot of people are missing the point here:

 

This is not about getting BIS items. This is about getting prestige items like rare colors and speeders. This is about the puzzles and easter egg hunt, which is now being rendered obsolete.

 

Even if they come up with new puzzles, now you know 2 months later it'll all be on sale.

[Space_Gimp]

Ok I think a lot of people are missing the point here:

 

This is not about getting BIS items. This is about getting prestige items like rare colors and speeders. This is about the puzzles and easter egg hunt, which is now being rendered obsolete.

 

Even if they come up with new puzzles, now you know 2 months later it'll all be on sale.

 

That should anger me?