ROSS- Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 remind u, today is year 2012. dont live in the past. so as of now, every MMO that comes out must be perfect at launch because "today is year 2012" ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Except that what you get when you log onto WoW right now, is somewhat contraversial. Some people believe that LFG and LFR have ruined that game. There are some that post that think addons/macros/combat logs/dps meters should never be a part of this game. I'm not in that crowd, but I have read their posts. I can understand BW taking a cautious approach at launch... Certainly. By no means would I suggest to a game developer that they go play WoW for a while and do nothing -else- in such a context. No no no. Should've been a pre-req for anyone in charge of designing anything to play, to max level and to a reasonably geared state, at least one character in no fewer than three reasonably successful MMO's though. Edit addition: And then brought to the design table thoughts and ideas on what was good, what was bad, what could work in the premise of the game they're designing and how to not merely take what they liked from elsewhere but to take it and do it better than what they liked about it in some other game. It really would, for such purposes, be a good experience, and while I don't know what the thinking heads at Bioware have and haven't played...I'd bet a shiny nickel on that they don't spend a lot of their time personally playing MMO's. Just a hunch; could easily be wrong. Edited February 23, 2012 by Uruare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSS- Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I imagine that if you ask the people who think LFG ruined the game that what they actually dislike is the X-realm aspect of it. People say LFG ruined server communities, well no, the fact that it grouped you with people you would never meet again ruined the community. If a server wide LFG was put in why would that impact on the social aspect of the game? If you meet someone you like add them to your friends and all of a sudden you get groups that much faster. I don't see why people would be adverse to mods. Maybe the "must have 11k DPS" aspect put them off but the customisable UI is pretty basic. yeah, like i said, i'm not in that crowd. truth be told, I celebrated when LFG first came out and happily pushed that button just about every day. At the same time, there are those that have a very different opinion, and I have read their posts. Thats why I laugh when people say BW doesn't listen to their playerbase. I always wonder, exactly which playerbase do you want them to listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akirator Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 so as of now, every MMO that comes out must be perfect at launch because "today is year 2012" ??? Yep, and car companies should never have recalls, windows should never crash, and everybody loves everybody because its the year 2012....wait, that doesnt seem right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakamp Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yep, and car companies should never have recalls, windows should never crash, and everybody loves everybody because its the year 2012....wait, that doesnt seem right ya, solaris or aix has never crashed over 1x yrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikiWataru Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Ok, 1) The game has actually gotten worse since launch. That's a first for me. I played Beeeeuuuuteefleee at launch. Honestly I loved it. Since 1.1 and every patch therafter though my game has gotten more and more unplayable. That's not good. 2) That kind of belief is killing the game industry. Expecting and excusing flawed product as a consumer is disastrous for any industry. I don't know how it evolved as acceptable in the game industry, but it's faulty reasoning at best. It's not like many games are designed in garages anymore out of acts of love for the purity of gaming. I love Bioware but they're a business like anyone else. They typically polish their games more than anyone else these days and I both love and respect them for it, but your attitude of 'expect crap performance from games at launch because they're sooo hard to make' is ******** and basically invites the industry to take advantage of you. You are basically bending over and asking for it. Games are businesses and there's a lot of money in that business, if it hasn't already gaming will soon surpass Hollywood as a cash cow. You say it's ok and you're willing to accept crap product then you will get consistently crappier product. I understand you're trying to defend something you like, but dude you're doing the exact opposite. You are hurting the industry you are trying to defend by lowering expectations and standards. You lower the bar and people will take advantage of you by phoning it in, sinking lower and lower under that bar while still taking your money. Hell it used to be mainly MMOs that released buggy with a need for improvement and people cut the developers slack, but where has that gone? At least MMOs were online and somewhat evolving by nature but now even console games are releasing with more and more bugs. Because they're getting harder to make too? Eh, maybe a little, but mainly because people will still pay for unfinished product and even defend it for being released as it is if other people complain. It just invites people who make decisions based on money to lower the bar further. Even if you love a developer you probably don't want to love their marketing or accounting departments who overrule the silly computer geeks when it comes to making money. Idk how bad things can get before people wake up but I can't think of many other industries where you support production by buying unfinished product and the hope that they'll get around to fixing it for you before moving onto the next thing. Edited February 23, 2012 by RikiWataru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akirator Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 ya, solaris or aix has never crashed over 1x yrs. no version of solaris or aix on any machine has EVER crashed even once? sure.... The point is no product in ANY industry is 100% perfect, whether it be design flaws manufacturing errors or what not. Not to say that we shouldn't expect something that runs reaaaaalllly well and has a sound design. And to head off anybody looking for a reason to pick a fight: I think BW has made some BIG mistakes and dropped the ball on most of the features in this game, so I am in no way a fanboi. I just think perfection is nice to think about and hope for, but realistically its not gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSS- Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 f ... The point is no product in ANY industry is 100% perfect, whether it be design flaws manufacturing errors or what not. Not to say that we shouldn't expect something that runs reaaaaalllly well and has a sound design. And to head off anybody looking for a reason to pick a fight: I think BW has made some BIG mistakes and dropped the ball on most of the features in this game, so I am in no way a fanboi. I just think perfection is nice to think about and hope for, but realistically its not gonna happen. That is a perfectly reasonable opinion. In fact, BW has made some decisions that quite irk me. I won't go so far as to call them "BIG mistakes," but they do make me scratch my head and wonder why sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakamp Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 no version of solaris or aix on any machine has EVER crashed even once? sure.... 1x years = EVER? sure, fanboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExarchCathedra Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Expecting and excusing flawed product as a consumer is disastrous for any industry. I don't know how it evolved as acceptable in the game industry... Because games, by definition, aren't important; if you have money to waste on something frivolous then all that matters is that you enjoy it as much as the equivalent amount of candy bars, or roller coaster rides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akirator Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 1x years = EVER? sure, fanboy. Ok, polite suggestion here, if you're not gonna make sense don't insist on arguing. Your original statement was it should be perfect because its the year 2012. Response was if thats the case, everything should be perfect and nothing should ever break/crash. Your response was "yes, solaris and aix havent crashed in 1x years". I thought you were mistaken on how long theyve been around and you were commenting on their lifetime, which is a fair assumption based on what you responded to. Then you call me a fanboy, which leads me to believe you have no idea what that word even means. Did I miss anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMix Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I never last longer than 3 months playing WoW either so i think Bioware hit their mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nussianis Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 *sigh* Look honestly the argument that because the game is new therefore it can't be compared to something that's been out for 7 years already isn't a valid argument either and here's why: Using Starcraft as an example, so Starcraft 2 doesn't have to be any better, or run any smoother because its not fair to compare an old game to a new game right? This whole argument is pointless honestly. There are those players who feel this is how MMO's operate, they are released buggy, have issues and low on content, but over time that gets fixed and the game is where they want it to be. Then you have players who expect more out of the gate, longer beta periods where the game is pretty set until the next expansion. As many people pointed out back when WoW released there wasn't much of a market for MMO's. Now the market is saturated with MANY MANY MMO's more than any of us could ever play. Thing is both parties have a valid point. So if you're not happy with how the game is going, submit all the feedback you can in game , and if you're really opposed then stop paying. However to those of you telling people just to quit and leave the game, you're hurting yourselves because that less money coming in for support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kravex Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 personally i dont see any insult in being called a fanboy if i love something and i am a fan of it i am a fanboy whats so wrong with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akirator Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 personally i dont see any insult in being called a fanboy if i love something and i am a fan of it i am a fanboy whats so wrong with that I dont have a problem with the word itself, when used as originally intended its not an insult. What I object to is when people use it as one and the intent behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfalll Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hey OP, Listen up pal..........BIO HAD OVER SIX YEARS TO DEVELOP THIS GAME. AND HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS. ONE MORE TIME. OVER SIX YEARS AND HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS. GOT IT? And what did all of that time/money bring? This average mmo. No matter how you try to rationalize it, you get back to that. So your wrong. Straight out 100 percent wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTie Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hey OP, Listen up pal..........BIO HAD OVER SIX YEARS TO DEVELOP THIS GAME. AND HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS. ONE MORE TIME. OVER SIX YEARS AND HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS. GOT IT? And what did all of that time/money bring? This average mmo. No matter how you try to rationalize it, you get back to that. So your wrong. Straight out 100 percent wrong. Dear OP, You have fools like this that ruin the game moe than the game itself. People like this are just trolling if you look at their post history. Unfortunatly most on here will not hear what you have to say because all of them run multiply million dollar gaming company and all have made a MMO before. They are all experts on what should or could be in game by now. Less than one percent even know what coding in a game is or what it takes to make a game. A bit of advice don't bother posting in these forums as they have become full of trolls and haters of the game. Knowledge and sense are limited in these forums now. Yes it is there righ to talk bad about the game they obvious do not play anymore. They have right to talk bad about the game as they will claim. Yes i will be called a fanboi or homer for BW. I love this game and it will be great in time. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoofar Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) As a gamer you expect new games to be at least as good as older games. This goes for both features and for example graphics. Would you excuse a new game releasing at 1024x768 resolution with "Oh cmon it's only been out a couple of months"? And furthermore as alot of people already pointed out - SWTOR has been in dev for alot of years. I loved the game when first playing it. When I first started looking for an extra action bar in preferences and to my amazement realized there was no such option nor could any UI elements be customized - my jaw dropped for the first time in TOR. When I later payed a first visit to the GTM - my jaw dropped for the second time in TOR. When I found that the legacy system wasn't actually in the game, I was merly disappointed. When I even later in the game found myself just standing around on the fleet because I just didn't want to go through the loadingscreen-feast to get to a planet, I put TOR on ice. I think/hope it will be ready for play in about six months or maybe a year. Assuming nothing better comes along before that, I'll happily resub. Most peoples complaints about TOR not delivering are imo perfectly legit. The gameplay I got out so far was worth the box, but the game is currently not worth my sub. Edited February 23, 2012 by zoofar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I love this game. It's actually my favorite MMO to date. I have a few complaints, but nothing that even comes close to making me want to quit. It's great fun and captures (IMO) the spirit of Star Wars well. That said, I'll say again, I don't think it's fair to tell people they can't compare this game to WoW as it is today. TOR isn't competing with WoW 7 years ago. They're competing with WoW today. WoW is its direct competition, not WoW 7 years ago. If someone doesn't think this game meets what WoW is today, they are not being unfair. They're evaluating two current products and deciding which one's worth their money. I strongly suspect Bioware would agree with me here. They know full well that this product is intended to compete with current MMOs, not MMOs from a decade ago. IMO, this game has stepped up and met that challenge. It is (IMO) far more fun than WoW ever was, then or now. But if someone disagrees, I'm not going to tell them they're wrong to compare it to WoW today. WoW today is the game asking them for their money. That's the game Bioware is competing with. I can't imagine why it's not fair for them to make that comparison. Edited February 23, 2012 by Vecke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoofar Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Also - If it wasn't for the many people complaining about many different issues with the game, BW wouldn't do anything about them. You wouldnt be getting customizable UI for one. They woudln't put resources on changing anything they think the playerbase is content with. In their credit, they seem to be making a real effort fixing stuff as fast as they can now. Personally I still have hopes for a good game in all departments...in time. Edited February 23, 2012 by zoofar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zortezurtek Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Lets use that then. Lets say you go to a car dealership, the dealer tells you about this great car that they don't have yet. He tells you the maker of the car who you've heard of and maybe have owned one of their cars before and you really liked that car. Still this dealer sells you and others on this car. Then the day the car comes out and you get it and what do you find? It has one seat, a steering wheel, the gas and break pedals and that's it. No radio, no other seats, it's not even painted. The dealer tells you that's how it came and if you want the other things with it to contact the maker. The maker tells you "Oh yeah we can paint your car and put in a radio in about three to four months." Along with this the car is breaking down and you need to wait for the dealer to fix that too. Oh and as you are waiting for the car to be fixed, painted and for a radio to be put in? There that older car that you have had for about 7 years that has everything and still runs good. There's also that car that came out last year that's running and looking good as well. And the dealer himself is talking about three other new cars coming out that year. All three of those he test drove, one is a new model of an older car lets call it the D3 and it's looking really good. Another one it's an overseas Car however there's been some good press about it. And then there's this one the GW2 that the dealer tells you is one of the best things he got to drive. And reading up on that one the makers are putting everything they can into it. And it also helps that with two of those cars you just have to pay for them. No extra fee's tacked on. And you are looking at this as news is breaking about how the maker of the car you just got is patting themselves on the back for a job well done as a mass protest is going on outside the factory that this car is made at. Along with the riot happening at their HQ. But they remind you that hey your car will be painted in the next few months. But all of this is based on the assumption that the car you got did not fit what you expected. There are a lot of people who see a mostly complete functioning car when they look at ToR. Now a lot may think that those people have no sense of MMOs or are just plain stupid, but that doesn't change things. It's like comparing a fully functional Ferrari to a fully functional Golf, they both have everything that is needed in a car, one is just a better brand. (Opinions on cars and brands are examples and should not be a place to argue which car is better ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woebe Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Woebe's inadequate anaology: Bioware releases an O/S with similiar features as winxp. Haters: Wow this is way crappier than Win 7 Lovers: But look how much better it is than win 3.1! Games should be given time add content, but if the innovation isn't there from the start.... (It's up to the reader to decide if the innovation is there or not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The only problem with that is, that doesn't actually happen in reality.. The reality of MMO's is that this happens all the time. Apples to oranges. This happens all the time in MMO's because you and people like you think its ok. Demand more for your money and stop saying that its ok because "That's how its always been lolz" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If I buy a new car, I expect it to come with air conditioning. If your excuse is that it's a new model this year and has only existed for 2 months... that's not going to fly. that is THE worst comparison ever. the only reason why you haters continue to use it is because it sounds logical. but it actually isn't. even wow, to this day isn't a finished product. MMOs are NEVER a finish product. in fact, the longer an MMO is out, the MORE bugs they will get due to all the additional code thats been added. of course they will fix the 'gamebreaking' bugs over time, but for every 1 bug they fix, many many others are left out and forgotten over time. key word her time, give swtor time and most of the people's 'gamebreaking' issues will be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorrius Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Lots or Respect to CityWok. Couldn't have put it better. I was there for WoW betas.. (Closed and open) and retail.. and boy was it horrible at times!!!! Same went for some other games like Tabula Rasa and Guildwars... I love SWtor.. big addiction again and even at 50 it's still fun.. I have been busy for weeks to up my gear.. finish my class quest... level different crewskills to get epics I want to build.. and I'm looking forward SOO much to new content that will come.. in the mean time I'm leveling an Alt on the side.. and I hardly find time for it, cause I keep returning to my main cause there's things I want to do.. PVP.. PVE... etc etc.. SWTOR Rules.. Remember!!! : The Happiest People don't have the best of everything, they make the best of everything! Edited February 23, 2012 by Aragorrius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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